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Why do you not play ranked PvP?


NathanielStarr

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Besides a full set of WH gear, is there anything really worth earning with ranked comms? If not then ranked seems like a waste if getting a match going is as hard as people are claiming. It seems like a catch-22. Getting WH gear is a pain through regular WZ's, but to participate in ranked WZ's people want you to already have all your WH stuff?

 

status symbols such as different colored armor and weapon crystals (require a certain rating in ranked). and the rating itself is a kind of bragging right.

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status symbols such as different colored armor and weapon crystals (require a certain rating in ranked). and the rating itself is a kind of bragging right.

 

Thanks, I do enjoy the bling, and I honestly think PvP is fun, but ranked seems a bit of a hassle right now.

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No one to play with. I did however join a pug yesterday. It was a pug that included people from some of the top teams on the server. We had vent but we didnt care about class composition and since we had not played together before there wasnt much of a game plan. Regardless of all that it was still some of the most fun games I've played. We had some tight games against another team (no one els queueing) and it felt like the outcome actually meant something, in contrast to having 4 people camp home node for points as soon as it's starting to look like a loss..... which usually is the case with pug (n)wz'es..

 

I hope we can run some more (semi)pug rateds in the future on C.Run.

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No one to play with. I did however join a pug yesterday. It was a pug that included people from some of the top teams on the server. We had vent but we didnt care about class composition and since we had not played together before there wasnt much of a game plan. Regardless of all that it was still some of the most fun games I've played. We had some tight games against another team (no one els queueing) and it felt like the outcome actually meant something, in contrast to having 4 people camp home node for points as soon as it's starting to look like a loss..... which usually is the case with pug (n)wz'es..

 

I hope we can run some more (semi)pug rateds in the future on C.Run.

 

I'm a transplant from Mind Trick to C. Run, and I make no claims that I'm a "pro" PvPer, but I try hard to not do stupid things and many times sacrifice personal "glory" in order to achieve team victory. Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I find it cheap and lazy to just quit or camp a node because things don't look good 30 seconds into a battle.

 

Just yesterday in a HB match I noticed that it looked like I was the only one on my team trying to stop the ball carrier, and I let the "team" know it. They had all been hanging out at mid fighting for personal gain. The only excuse I got was that we had only 6 people. Someone else (can't think of the name), then pointed out that the opposing team only had 7, and everyone seemed to wake up a little. We still lost the match, but only by 1 point.

 

Just a little bit of leadership can go a long way.

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4) No solo ranked queues. This was a SERIOUS mistake.

 

This

 

I agree too, but it does make some sense: If you're a soloer getting slotted in a PUG team going against a well-coordinated premade team, you're most likely going to find yourself on the losing side. It's not a guarantee but it's by far the most likely outcome. But I don't do rateds cuz I can't queue solo and I don't really have a regular group that I play with.

 

I really enjoyed the PvP experience right up to lvl 50... I felt like the original class balance was really good, the TTK was just about right, and the match-ups were even enough that you won about half your matches or so. Some of the class tweaking that came later actually made the balance worse, IMO; and the TTK has gone way down since 1.2, making many of the fights much less interesting. Still, overall, PvP was good... until lvl 50.

 

At that point it got really harrowing... for a while. There was a sort of a lull for a time, right after ranked WZs were release, where it became good again... matches seemed about even, scores were close, and you felt like you earned your wins. It seemed like that only lasted a few weeks, and now we're back to premades steamrolling PUGs again.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the only way to make PvP WZs work again is to do the following:

 

- Get rid of "regular" warzones, entirely.

- Everyone queues for ranked. Queues are bracketed by ranking.

- You can not be matched with people outside of your bracket.

- Probably both individual performance and team performance should affect rank, but (relative) Individual performance affects your ranking much more than team performace.

 

This does a couple things. It makes the match-ups about as fair as they could possibly be. It lets people queue solo, and not have to worry about getting matched up on a bad team against an uber-premade. It provides a means of escape for better players who have the bad luck to be slotted on bad teams. It also somewhat removes gear imbalance from the equation -- your performance is your performance regardless of what gear you have. Granted, lower brackets will tend to be filled with under-geared players, and higher brackets will tend to be filled with well-geared players, but it still is performance that ultimately decides what bracket you're in... regardless of whether you perform that way due to skill or gear (or a lack thereof).

 

The combination of bracketing and focus on individual performance is key. Good players who queue solo will typically start out at a lower rank due to getting slotted on bad teams, but as the teams they get slotted on get matched against similarly skilled teams, their individual performance will start to shine relative to the rest of the team. Their rank will bubble up as this occurs, allowing them to move into the next higher bracket, getting slotted on better and better teams until they get to their individual level. Without this, otherwise good players will be brought down inequitably by being slotted on bad teams. And I think it will also make it easier for solo players to find a group of people they want to play with regularly, to enable them to work together and build their team skills with, which again will allow them to continue up the ladder.

Edited by Bladeprophet
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I agree too, but it does make some sense: If you're a soloer getting slotted in a PUG team going against a well-coordinated premade team, you're most likely going to find yourself on the losing side. It's not a guarantee but it's by far the most likely outcome. But I don't do rateds cuz I can't queue solo and I don't really have a regular group that I play with.

 

I really enjoyed the PvP experience right up to lvl 50... I felt like the original class balance was really good, the TTK was just about right, and the match-ups were even enough that you won about half your matches or so. Some of the class tweaking that came later actually made the balance worse, IMO; and the TTK has gone way down since 1.2, making many of the fights much less interesting. Still, overall, PvP was good... until lvl 50.

 

At that point it got really harrowing... for a while. There was a sort of a lull for a time, right after ranked WZs were release, where it became good again... matches seemed about even, scores were close, and you felt like you earned your wins. It seemed like that only lasted a few weeks, and now we're back to premades steamrolling PUGs again.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the only way to make PvP WZs work again is to do the following:

 

- Get rid of "regular" warzones, entirely.

- Everyone queues for ranked. Queues are bracketed by ranking.

- You can not be matched with people outside of your bracket.

- Probably both individual performance and team performance should affect rank, but (relative) Individual performance affects your ranking much more than team performace.

 

This does a couple things. It makes the match-ups about as fair as they could possibly be. It lets people queue solo, and not have to worry about getting matched up on a bad team against an uber-premade. It provides a means of escape for better players who have the bad luck to be slotted on bad teams. It also somewhat removes gear imbalance from the equation -- your performance is your performance regardless of what gear you have. Granted, lower brackets will tend to be filled with under-geared players, and higher brackets will tend to be filled with well-geared players, but it still is performance that ultimately decides what bracket you're in... regardless of whether you perform that way due to skill or gear (or a lack thereof).

 

The combination of bracketing and focus on individual performance is key. Good players who queue solo will typically start out at a lower rank due to getting slotted on bad teams, but as the teams they get slotted on get matched against similarly skilled teams, their individual performance will start to shine relative to the rest of the team. Their rank will bubble up as this occurs, allowing them to move into the next higher bracket, getting slotted on better and better teams until they get to their individual level. Without this, otherwise good players will be brought down inequitably by being slotted on bad teams. And I think it will also make it easier for solo players to find a group of people they want to play with regularly, to enable them to work together and build their team skills with, which again will allow them to continue up the ladder.

 

Not that I'm against actually using the rating system and offering solo queues, how exactly do you plan on rating individual performance? Maybe I AOE rooted their whole team dropping out of spawn in VS and allowed for a cap, how is that tallied into the final score? You're just going to see all the people who want the best stats having the top ratings. If you're always on the bad team with a ranking based matchmaking system, then you have to be bad as well to get that low. I also assume that if they offer a solo queue, it will be solo only and not match you with premades.

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1. Came way to late. Pretty much everyone I wanted to do rateds with left 3 weeks after 1.2 when they were supposed to come out.

2. I have about an 80% win ratio, haven't played raters in weeks but I'm at 42-10.

Losses were received from situations like this

 

Someone dc'd, someone got stuck in spawn bug, no combat sentinel on alderaan and we lose by 5 points, not stacking focus knights or assault vanguards on voidstar. Ie: bugs and cheesy game mechanics that result in a close game being a loss.

 

As someone as has said and many have quoted, if I can't play what I want, with who I want, the way I want, why bother?

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[Not that I'm against actually using the rating system and offering solo queues, how exactly do you plan on rating individual performance?

 

What, do I have to think of everything? Don't the fine folks at Bioware earn a salary to figure this stuff out? I think they do... =8^)

 

I would look at using some kind of point system... every kill, every objective, every heal, every defended turret, etc. is worth some point value. At the end of the match, adjust up or down by some scaling factor based on performance relative to how the team did. Clearly different goals need different weights. Defending a turret no one is attacking is obviously less valuable than defending the guy capping for the win.... Divide by the number of matches played, so that people who play 6000 matches a day don't automatically overtake someone who only plays 6 matches a week. Periodically (every "season") reset the ranks (just like every sports team's record is reset each season), so that people who have improved considerably aren't forever seriously negatively impacted by their previous performance (same deal for those who got worse).

 

The math probably needs to be a bit more complicated than this to keep it fair, but that seems like a good start.

 

If you're always on the bad team with a ranking based matchmaking system, then you have to be bad as well to get that low.

 

It depends on how the ranking works, but really that's not true. I'm sure most of us have run into situations where the bad team we were on dragged us way down.

 

I also assume that if they offer a solo queue, it will be solo only and not match you with premades.

 

Not necessarily... that's a big benefit of what I'm suggesting. If you queue solos only with other solos, on top of queuing only people in the same bracket, you're making it much harder to get a match, for everyone. But it doesn't matter... as long as the rank of the team is roughly equal, you should be in a pretty fair fight. If you're solo, up against a premade with the same rank as you (or rather your team), either they are bad at coordinating, or just not as good as you (your team), so it balances out. If that weren't true, they'd be ranked higher...

Edited by Bladeprophet
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Thinking about it here is the crazy thing. You need full warhero to compete in ranked, but the only reason to do ranked is to get ranked commendations faster. But, every ranked group wants everyone in Full Augmented War Hero Gear...

 

In red, and fixed.

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Thinking about it here is the crazy thing. You need full warhero to compete in ranked, but the only reason to do ranked is to get ranked commendations faster. But, you don't need commendations after you have all the warhero gear...

 

Ranked is teamplay. PUG in full WH augumented always loose vs. even battlemaster geared 8-ppl team with voice comm, who knows how focus fire and know the common tactics.

 

I dont play ranked, because:

1) I an unguilded, always play in PUG

2) There is not solo queue ranked +

3) There is not solo rating, not depending from team play

4) There is not only PUG vs. PUG

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Ranked is teamplay. PUG in full WH augumented always loose vs. even battlemaster geared 8-ppl team with voice comm, who knows how focus fire and know the common tactics.

 

I dont play ranked, because:

1) I an unguilded, always play in PUG

2) There is not solo queue ranked +

3) There is not solo rating, not depending from team play

4) There is not only PUG vs. PUG

 

 

Other games have had ranked brackets and have done just fine.

 

I stand by why I dont play ranked matches.

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1) We play the same team over and over again. The team that wins ALWAYS wins and the other team stops queuing. No more rateds for that day.

 

2) Comp dependency means play the FOTM spec on the FOTM class or no one wants you.

 

3) Takes FOREVER to get a decently geared team together. Then you get smashed by a guild team and you wonder why you bothered in the first place.

 

4) No solo ranked queues. This was a SERIOUS mistake.

 

5) Warzones are now speed based, but only for the first 30 seconds. Whoever caps the turret first keeps it. Nodes don't flip. Alderaan side turrets never flip, middle never gets capped, whoever caps side turret first wins by 5. Denova nodes never flip, whoever caps first keeps it. Voidstar doors are camped by engineer snipers/sabotage gunslingers and never get planted on. Voidstar tie break system = fail.

 

Rated teams use every exploit, trick, and FOTM tool in the box to win. That actually makes the game 10x less fun. I can't play what I want. I can't play how I want. I can't even play with whom I want. Why bother playing?

 

Sums up my feelings exactly, good post.

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I've seen some of the best, if not the best, players of certain classes being asked to leave a rated group so some other class can take their place. It's silly how serious it has become. And it wasnt a matter of trading a dps for a much needed healer.

That said, it's not entirely about having to play a certain class, it's also about the mentality in the community. It's one thing to not run rated with severly undergeared people or 8 sages, but to dismiss someone who they would have won with anyway? This is one of the reasons to why there arent that many rated teams out there, some people rather sit around and wait for 2 hours than play with a slightly less competitive constellation.

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  • 3 weeks later...
pot, meet kettle.

 

If you write a QQ post like that, basicly self proclaiming your own awesomeness, be preparede for ppl to take you down a notch. As allways the problem in games like this are that most ppl think they are alot better than they are, and the reason they lose are everybody else's fault.

 

That would be flattering, if they designed a whole game around me.

 

Since they are not correcting what needs to be corrected, then ye, really got nothing to do with this thread though.

 

Got tired of WoW, 8 Seasons of Arena and gladiator was enough for me, waiting for GW2, need something to do meanwhile, lightsabers are cool and stuff.

 

 

And I am kind enough to answer.

 

The only real reason to move to South Korea would be to go pro in the SC2 scene, and playing casual master lvl sc2, is no where near enough to justify that, I simply do not have the time, or will to go pro in sc2.

 

weird

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It seemed that everyone was disappointed when ranked matches were left out of 1.2, but now that they are here with 1.3 there does not seem to be too many of them happening at least not on my server (Bergeren Colony).

 

The reason I don't participate in them is because I cannot find people that want to, their reasons vary, so I wanted to ask the general PvP populace.

 

Why aren't you playing ranked PvP matches?

 

If you are I don't really want to know, but it seems like few are.

 

Population on my server is so sparse its hard to find anyone competitive republic or empire side. Fact is if this was Xserver across the server map it wouldn't be an issue, but because of the huge pop imbalance most op for "cheating" the realm by making prearranged ranked PvP matches and I don't blame them.

 

Untill bioware fixes the current server problem them more of these issues will occur and consumers will quit because of it. F2play won't help in the long run as the need for a larger pool of players if more efficient and out-ways the resources to police other servers.

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