XxHazenxX Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 This is kotor. and kotor has never been a sandbox game and will never be Regarding the second part of your post, you're correct; KotOR has never been a sandbox and never will be. Regarding the first part, I've played through KotOR I and II around 20 times each in their entirety aaaand this game isn't KotOR, or anywhere remotely close to it. KotOR is actually an amazing game... This is a VERY mediocre game in every way possible except for the voice acting (which is great). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Well, the days of AAA sandbox MMO games are probably over. But there will be smaller titles, and who knows, maby they'll come back into fashion again some day? But for now, just accept that if you want a sandbox MMO, you'll have to go off the mainstream... As for Sandbox Games in general? Well, GTA V is a sandbox game, and that sold incredible amounts of copies, so I don't think its at an end in general... just for the MMO's. this more or less, until a minor game company scores a huuuge hit with a sandbox game the AAA MMOs will all be themepark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackholeskipper Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Well, the days of AAA sandbox MMO games are probably over. But there will be smaller titles, and who knows, maby they'll come back into fashion again some day? But for now, just accept that if you want a sandbox MMO, you'll have to go off the mainstream... As for Sandbox Games in general? Well, GTA V is a sandbox game, and that sold incredible amounts of copies, so I don't think its at an end in general... just for the MMO's. I dunno man, Star Citizen has already reached 34 million in funding. Keep in mind that they don't have to go through a third party like EA so most of that money will go to funding the game directly. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals Then there's always EVE Online... quality-wise it's definitely "AAA." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 And last, I had high hope SWTOR was going to be Sandbox...again, a no go. And why would you have ever expected or even hoped that? It was made clear long before this game was launched that it wouldn't be a sandbox game. Yet, years later, people are still moaning over this freaking sandbox stuff. This is not the sandbox game you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheric Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 This is true. In swg there wasn't any thing to do, except grind to unlock your jedi or gain experience on your jedi. It seems to me the only people who like pure sandbox mmorpgs are people who role play. Take for example swg, there were no dungeons, no pvp warzones, and no quest chains. What are you supposed to do, when your done leveling? I don't like sitting around waiting for pvp to happen. There was no questing in swg. The quest you accept generated spawns of 3-5 npc that you needed to destroy to complete. You did this over and over to level. That was not fun and swtor is 10 times better than that crap. I find it hard to believe any one would have fun in that game outside of role playing or maybe that flying, but otherwise what is there to do except craft? There is nothing outside the main cities. I spent a lot time in Dathomir and Dantooine and both zones were always void of players. Between warcraft and swg it's no wonder warcraft won. That is why swg attempted to copy wow, but it only drove more people to leave. The game was not design like wow and consquently made little sense to change it. There was also the change to jedi from an unlock to standard class, which pissed off most of their player base. No dungeons in SWG ? what were the DWB, Warren and others then ? No quests ? I remember running quests for the rebellion in order to increase my faction standing. Leveling ? I remember a skill based system, maybe you're refering to the NGE, i left at that point , never looked back, was it level based then ? Weird how recollections differ. As for SWG vs WOW, well of course WOW won thats like a " no brainer ", If i had 2 maps, map A is layed out for ease of use, all directions marked, sign posts at every turn, Map B well X marks the spot you have to figure out the rest on your own. Which map do you believe the majority of people will pick ? I'm willing to bet A, and you ? Me i'll pick B everytime, besides being overly pig headed, i also believe the journey is where the fun really is, like that saying " life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans " I have to ask if it was no fun as you say why did you play ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheric Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 This - (check my Sig also) - I have been following this game for a while now - have even backed it financially - this is going to be a great Sandbox game. Yes i agree whole heartedly, I'm a backer as well:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Regarding the second part of your post, you're correct; KotOR has never been a sandbox and never will be. Regarding the first part, I've played through KotOR I and II around 20 times each in their entirety aaaand this game isn't KotOR, or anywhere remotely close to it. KotOR is actually an amazing game... This is a VERY mediocre game in every way possible except for the voice acting (which is great). Actually, KotOR (and TSL) are VERY mediocre games in every way possible except for the storyline (which is pretty darned good, but still not perfect). Let's leave those rose tinted glasses off. The gameplay mechanics and graphics were pretty awful in KotOR and TSL. Even for their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I dunno man, Star Citizen has already reached 34 million in funding. Keep in mind that they don't have to go through a third party like EA so most of that money will go to funding the game directly. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals Then there's always EVE Online... quality-wise it's definitely "AAA." Yeah, but most don't consider Star Citizen an MMO. Almost everyone I have talked to about it (big fan of Chris Roberts' games) views it as a very large space sim. Not an MMO. I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying that most companies (and players) will see it as an open world multiplayer space sim. Kinda like how most wouldn't see an open world multiplayer racing game as an "mmo". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etheric Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) I wouldn't mind a theme park within a sandbox. Kind of best of both worlds. That I could easily be happy with. Could you please explain to me how that would work, the mixing of Sandbox and Themepark, for the life of me i can't wrap my mind around that concept. See to me all sandbox designates is the ability to affect the world and players in the world whereas Themepark is the opposite, your being in the world neither effects it or I. Example, In EVE if say i go to a certain sector and mine all the Golden omber from the zone its gone until the server resets at 7am est. You arrive looking for the same mineral after me your choices are mine something else or go somewhere else, I've directly affected your gameplay, whereas Themepark what 2to 5 minutes of waiting for a quest completion ( you beat me to the blue flashing panel i need to click ), you beat the FP i'm gonna run, not gonna effect me will it. So how do you combine the ability to affect the word around you and others playing without affecting the world around you and others playing ? If you're speaking of features like , housing, weather,ect.ect. Well there just features neither belonging to nor defining of either genre. My opinion of course. Edited December 15, 2013 by Etheric can't type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxHazenxX Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Actually, KotOR (and TSL) are VERY mediocre games in every way possible except for the storyline (which is pretty darned good, but still not perfect). Let's leave those rose tinted glasses off. The gameplay mechanics and graphics were pretty awful in KotOR and TSL. Even for their time. KotOR was one of the best looking Xbox games available at the time... Especially cutscene-wise. There's a reason it won so many awards and is still talked about so highly even 10 years later. As far as gameplay mechanics, that's fully your opinion. Personally, I, and a lot of others loved the d20 style combat. Some hated it. That's irrelevant. There's no room for "rose tinted glasses" when a single-player game comes around and makes thousands of people play through it numerous times (like I said, 20 in my case). It's obviously doing more than a few things right. If TOR was half as good as KotOR, I would have AT LEAST played through each class story one time by now like I originally intended, which I haven't been able to bring myself to do having played since early closed beta, and there are many others like me. The simple fact is that TOR just isn't as compelling as KotOR. It's watered down, generic, repetitive, and formulaic... most of which can be attributed to it being an MMO instead of a single-player experience that is unique and one-of-a-kind like a direct sequal (KotOR III... not the JK storyline) could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 To people who claim that GTA/Assassin are sandbox, I have to disagree there. Those are open world non-linear theme parks. Yes, you can do some "side stuff" in any order you want to, but in the end, you still have to progress through the "main stuff" to unlock more "side stuff". Sandbox usually means you can create the content using the tools in game (not talking about SDKs, those are not part of game). For example, Spore was/is a sandbox, Minecraft is a sandbox, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamo Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 The same question I asked pre-launch, I still haven't gotten the answer to via my own game play or from forum answers "with a theme park game, what is the goal when your rewards are EXACTLY like everyone else's?" My purple 72 armor is the same as any everyone else's. Not that way in a sandbox game. Also, from what I've seen, Star Citizen is a themepark and MMO. You have stories a la Wing Commander, with difference paths to choose, in addition to flight. If it's anything like the WC series, it will rock. There is no reason a Themepark methodology can't be used to train people to the open world sandbox ways of "end game." Seriously, I would like someone to answer what the point of endgame is in a themepark since there is no uniqueness other than cosmetic and even then, nothing that everyone else can't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 You're not out of luck and the sandbox games aren't gone. Have a look at https://www.therepopulation.com/ which is a game that seems to want to mimic what SWG did exactly. For the sake of the company I hope they won't replicate SOE's style of management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermist Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Star Citizen has a campaign, called Squadron 42, after that, or if you skip it altogether, you're sent out into space and from there you make your own adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Sandbox games aren't going away but there is no way they're ever reaching the comparative zenith they were once in. They're a niche and they're staying that way. The older gamers that started out with hardcore installments are 30, 40 now and the new generation is more ease of access oriented as well. Original SWG would bomb today, that's the reality of it. Some nostalgia folks may flock to it but it takes too much to draw in the general population. The times have changed. People have changed. Yes yank tank cars have a certain classical charm and romance to them. But who would pick them for a coast to coast road trip? Very few, that's who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htoob Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Sandbox games aren't going away but there is no way they're ever reaching the comparative zenith they were once in. They're a niche and they're staying that way. The older gamers that started out with hardcore installments are 30, 40 now and the new generation is more ease of access oriented as well. Original SWG would bomb today, that's the reality of it. Some nostalgia folks may flock to it but it takes too much to draw in the general population. The times have changed. People have changed. Yes yank tank cars have a certain classical charm and romance to them. But who would pick them for a coast to coast road trip? Very few, that's who. You just don't understand classic then, And fyi, sandbox mmos are on the rise, developers are starting to finally get a clue and realize the inherent failures and limitations of thempark mmos, and are going back to sandbox roots. EQ Next, Archeage are just two that are coming out soon. And if everything goes well, which it will of course in regards to mmos, cause themeparks are starting to die the long deserved death they need, I'll be gald when they are just a bad memory and no longer infecting and destroying the genre that could have turned into a fantastic online experience in open worlds with players of all walks and playstyles sharing the same virtual environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 You're not out of luck and the sandbox games aren't gone. Have a look at https://www.therepopulation.com/ which is a game that seems to want to mimic what SWG did exactly. Is this available now to play? Or is there an eta on when it's being released? It looks pretty cool. I'd love to try it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 You just don't understand classic then, And fyi, sandbox mmos are on the rise, developers are starting to finally get a clue and realize the inherent failures and limitations of thempark mmos, and are going back to sandbox roots. EQ Next, Archeage are just two that are coming out soon. And if everything goes well, which it will of course in regards to mmos, cause themeparks are starting to die the long deserved death they need, I'll be gald when they are just a bad memory and no longer infecting and destroying the genre that could have turned into a fantastic online experience in open worlds with players of all walks and playstyles sharing the same virtual environment. Rise of the sandbox and fall of the theme park has been foretold as long as I remember now and title after title just fade into memory... with people like you notching it up to XY game faults except sandbox nature not having the pull of course... Come talk to me when one of these games does a fully player driven economy and all the other oldschool whistles and bells pulls in a fraction of the largest themeparks do. Inb4 EVE/SC cos that's a totally different beast. People by and large want to jump in and out, get their quick fix, put in 2 raid nights per week and stay in the vicinity of the curve etc. etc. Not set up 200 harvesters or save up a fortune and scour the forums for that awesome crafter... I'm not saying you'll never see a sanbox game again. I'm not saying a sandbox game won't ever achieve solid success. I'm just saying that the notion that the sandbox, like the South, will rise again and put the themepark to the well deserved sword is a pipe dream, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 EvE is still around. This probably belongs in off-topic though. EVE is about as sandbox as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Could you please explain to me how that would work, the mixing of Sandbox and Themepark, for the life of me i can't wrap my mind around that concept. See to me all sandbox designates is the ability to affect the world and players in the world whereas Themepark is the opposite, your being in the world neither effects it or I. Example, In EVE if say i go to a certain sector and mine all the Golden omber from the zone its gone until the server resets at 7am est. You arrive looking for the same mineral after me your choices are mine something else or go somewhere else, I've directly affected your gameplay, whereas Themepark what 2to 5 minutes of waiting for a quest completion ( you beat me to the blue flashing panel i need to click ), you beat the FP i'm gonna run, not gonna effect me will it. So how do you combine the ability to affect the word around you and others playing without affecting the world around you and others playing ? If you're speaking of features like , housing, weather,ect.ect. Well there just features neither belonging to nor defining of either genre. My opinion of course. Face it, a lot of players in this thread don't understand "sandbox" the way anyone who played EVE or UO does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 You just don't understand classic then, And fyi, sandbox mmos are on the rise, developers are starting to finally get a clue and realize the inherent failures and limitations of thempark mmos, and are going back to sandbox roots. EQ Next, Archeage are just two that are coming out soon. And if everything goes well, which it will of course in regards to mmos, cause themeparks are starting to die the long deserved death they need, I'll be gald when they are just a bad memory and no longer infecting and destroying the genre that could have turned into a fantastic online experience in open worlds with players of all walks and playstyles sharing the same virtual environment. The fact that you want en entire genre of fun, profitable MMOs to die is utterly ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 The fact that you want en entire genre of fun, profitable MMOs to die is utterly ridiculous. I don't think that is what he said, but if we could return MMO to the UO pre-REN model then ya, let the deaths begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I don't think that is what he said, but if we could return MMO to the UO pre-REN model then ya, let the deaths begin That's exactly what he said. Reading is fundamental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Is this available now to play? Or is there an eta on when it's being released? It looks pretty cool. I'd love to try it. Thanks. I think they are entering beta soon, so nope, not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I think they are entering beta soon, so nope, not yet. Okie dokie, thanks for the answer. Will have to keep an eye on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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