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Why no imperial trooper


MJHoyle's Avatar


MJHoyle
01.05.2012 , 10:24 PM | #101
I agree with you on this. Storm troopers were the imperial military class, not bounty hunters. Smugglers and bounty hunters were most definitely 2-sided. If you read up about Han Solo you'll find that he worked for the imperials with distinction until he got thrown out for protecting a wookie from being beaten by an imperial agent. Smugglers and bounty hunters are crooks, and crooks will supply the highest bidder whichever side they're on unless they have a sense of morality.
[PlayerX]: Wasn't numb bum in return of the Jedi?
[PlayerY]: no you mean nien numb or something like that hehe
[PlayerY]: nien nunb
[PlayerX]: Ah that wa sit

ColonelColt's Avatar


ColonelColt
01.05.2012 , 10:25 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by laydenyght View Post
There certaintly is stuff in the middle, but how can that be accomplished alone? I'm genuinely asking, I'm not trying to be sassy. Would each quest have you fight larger groups, but with multiple companions? In a story driven game, it's hard to imagine a consistant stream of excuses from above as to why an average soldier would repeatedly be send off on his own.
There are actually a variety of ways to explain this. Depending on the mission, it could just give you a dozen NPC's. I remember one mission on Ord Mantell where, at the end, a gunship came in and deployed a squad of troopers. It could do that. A squad of NPCs run the mission with you, getting picked off cuz they're weak. Or maybe there is some reason for why you're solo? Keep in mind, there are often times where a squad will send out two or so troops for recon or something.

I'm not a writer, it's not my place to justify why things are done. However even I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head. So if even I can do it, I'd like to imagine professionals working at Bioware could manage.

alienstalker's Avatar


alienstalker
01.05.2012 , 10:27 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by PJEBarlow View Post
Someone has already pointed out how the in-game movies (of which Deceived is one) only serve to showcase the in-game classes. If we're talking common sense though, a navy alone does not win a war of occupation.

The Empire sacked Coruscant, evicted the Jedi, and sued the Republic for peace. It didn't do that only with mere "grunts" and to argue otherwise would be nonsense. Not only because it makes no sense, but because it would imply a lot about how special Republic troopers really aren't if they got caned by such a weaksauce force.
We are not claiming they did it alone, we are just saying that the grunts did do alot to help the sith defeat the republic. If it was only sith, vs jedi and republic troopers the sith would lose. That's why they used ashigaru in feudal japan is because you can just rely on the most powerful forces. But once again we are getting off topic. What I'm saying is, is that the grunts still had there uses.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.05.2012 , 10:27 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by ColonelColt View Post
I don't even know if he WAS a commander of an elite commando unit. To be honest I doubt he was. I said even if HE was special, not that he was commanding something special.
The cinematic took placer on Alderaan while it was being held by the Empire. There were small squads of Republic Troopers located throughout the forests to disrupt Sith warbands. Chances are Joe Everygrunt isn't going to be sent to Alderaan to fight a guerrilla war. Chances are commando units, which I think are considered elite in all situations, are going to be sent in.

Also, and this is a trope. The fact he's going in without a helmet, and we can see his face, marks him as someone important.

Quote:
Actually, this is wrong. It doesn't give them details in any way, shape or form. It just tells them something bad is about to happen. It's their decades of training that allows them to interpret that into something useable.

I said it didn't tell them what form. It tells them what direction the danger will be coming from.

Quote:
Jedi/Sith are not THAT magnificent. Unlike the game, they can't force-spam when in combat. It requires a lot of focus and concentration and makes them very vulnerable to attack. If it's 1v1 then they can force-spam more freely, but in a warzone situation you wont see a force user using the force in any blatant way, they certainly wont be levitating people up and zapping them or anything. So without their more blatant force powers, then year, soldiers can often go toe-to-toe with them.
You didn't watch the the prequels, did you? While they weren't going crazy with Force powers they were using the basics. Pushes and pulls, jumps, etc. Even pushing your enemy or jumping over their head is an advantage.

Quote:
Your example is a bad one because Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, they weren't really that special. They were all royalty sure, but combat-wise they were not that amazing. They didn't have any super amazing talents or anything. All they had were years of training. Gandalf is about the only one who was anything special.
Aragorn was Dunedain. That right there makes him special. He was of the line of Great Men, of which there were only twelve others besides him. He is something beyond the scope of a normal man. He is on the level with elves, who themselves are excellent fighters.

And the point I made with them is that they have more experience. They are more special then Frodo because of this. They're technically elite forces.

Quote:
Whether you want to admit it, an everyday soldier is very much a match for a jedi or sith. You are WOEFULLY overestimating how powerful force users are.
No. No I'm not. You're overestimating the abilities of a regular soldier.

alienstalker's Avatar


alienstalker
01.05.2012 , 10:29 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by MJHoyle View Post
I agree with you on this. Storm troopers were the imperial military class, not bounty hunters. Smugglers and bounty hunters were most definitely 2-sided. If you read up about Han Solo you'll find that he worked for the imperials with distinction until he got thrown out for protecting a wookie from being beaten by an imperial agent. Smugglers and bounty hunters are crooks, and crooks will supply the highest bidder whichever side they're on unless they have a sense of morality.
Thats very true and that's a big reason why I don't think they should just have bounty hunters mirroring the republic trooper, storywise and classwise they are very different.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.05.2012 , 10:29 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by alienstalker View Post
Oh for God's sake I was making a example of movies with soldiers who were not influencing the government.
Bad example, however. The discussion isn't on influence in government, it's on kill capability. To put it simply, you're comparing average soldiers pitting themselves against average soldiers. I'm sure if the Allied forces had Jedi on their sides, Nazi Germany would have fallen very quickly.

alienstalker's Avatar


alienstalker
01.05.2012 , 10:31 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkestDaemon View Post
The cinematic took placer on Alderaan while it was being held by the Empire. There were small squads of Republic Troopers located throughout the forests to disrupt Sith warbands. Chances are Joe Everygrunt isn't going to be sent to Alderaan to fight a guerrilla war. Chances are commando units, which I think are considered elite in all situations, are going to be sent in.

Also, and this is a trope. The fact he's going in without a helmet, and we can see his face, marks him as someone important.




I said it didn't tell them what form. It tells them what direction the danger will be coming from.



You didn't watch the the prequels, did you? While they weren't going crazy with Force powers they were using the basics. Pushes and pulls, jumps, etc. Even pushing your enemy or jumping over their head is an advantage.



Aragorn was Dunedain. That right there makes him special. He was of the line of Great Men, of which there were only twelve others besides him. He is something beyond the scope of a normal man. He is on the level with elves, who themselves are excellent fighters.

And the point I made with them is that they have more experience. They are more special then Frodo because of this. They're technically elite forces.



No. No I'm not. You're overestimating the abilities of a regular soldier.
And he was the only trooper I saw without a helmet, everyone else had one.

Nizzemancer's Avatar


Nizzemancer
01.05.2012 , 10:31 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by MJHoyle View Post
I think he's thinking of storm troopers. Yes there were proper storm troopers dressed in white plastic icecream boxes in the films working for the empire. It does seem a bit odd that there are troopers working for the republic because if memory serves me I never saw any republic troppers in the films, or I just haven't watched star wars enough and need to refresh my memory.
Might want to look into rewatching Episode 2, I think I saw one or two there.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning

We will remember them.

PJEBarlow's Avatar


PJEBarlow
01.05.2012 , 10:32 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by alienstalker View Post
We are not claiming they did it alone, we are just saying that the grunts did do alot to help the sith defeat the republic. If it was only sith, vs jedi and republic troopers the sith would lose. That's why they used ashigaru in feudal japan is because you can just rely on the most powerful forces. But once again we are getting off topic. What I'm saying is, is that the grunts still had there uses.
But again I feel the need to remind someone that the Imperial military is not entirely made up of grunts. They don't just go from guarding the junkyard to guarding the Emperor himself in one promotion, and like any professional army they will have special forces (like Delta Squad and the 501st "Vader's Fist" clone troops of the Galactic Civil War era) so it wouldn't be difficult for someone at Bioware to dream up a special forces unit just like they did with Havok Squad in this game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nizzemancer View Post
Might want to look into rewatching Episode 2, I think I saw one or two there.
And they in fact turned out to be working for the Sith.

alienstalker's Avatar


alienstalker
01.05.2012 , 10:33 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkestDaemon View Post
Bad example, however. The discussion isn't on influence in government, it's on kill capability. To put it simply, you're comparing average soldiers pitting themselves against average soldiers. I'm sure if the Allied forces had Jedi on their sides, Nazi Germany would have fallen very quickly.
But what if Nazi Germany had sith on there side while jedi were on the allied side. Anyways though that is getting way off topic.