I'm not sure what the hesitancy of using a gun up close is. Certainly if it's because of the old 'wow dead zone' with hunters I could understand some of it I guess, but this is a totally different game. Your weapon isn't any less effective right up in someone's grill, and technically given the skillset it's MORE effective in this game.

I think some people assumed gun meant 'ranged tank' when this class has never actually worked that way in practice (at least not since April when I joined beta). You CAN use many of your abilities at longer range and hold some threat that way, but the core abilities you have to tank are short range and have always been such.

I can understand it. I am choosing NOT to make a Commando b/c I do not LIKE the rotary cannon. Alternatively, he may just not LIKE having an assualt rifle but realling needing to be withhin 10m range for all of the powers.

I guess my answer is that it is personal choice. From what I've heard from my tanking friends, the JK tank is an easier tank to use but the Trooper Vanguard tank is a bit more effective (just requires more attention).

Not sure if that helps but it's all I've got...

Nah, the Vanguard uses his rifle like a boss! You don't really shoot much - it's more a combination of smacking people in the face with the rifle butt, zapping unfortunates with various kinds of lightning (real lightning, not that pathetic purple Sith nonsense) and pressing little buttons to make your shield explode! And you're supposed to hit ALL THE PEOPLE in the face with your rifle butt. Every 4.5 seconds or so.

There's nothing quite as satisfying as smashing your rifle into some poor peon's face

I'm not sure what the hesitancy of using a gun up close is. Certainly if it's because of the old 'wow dead zone' with hunters I could understand some of it I guess, but this is a totally different game. Your weapon isn't any less effective right up in someone's grill, and technically given the skillset it's MORE effective in this game.

 

Ok I'm sorry, I didn't phrase it correctly. Let me explain, what I'm concerned about is actually kind of shallow. I'm concerned not by the vanguards effectiveness (the fact that you say he requires more attention actually makes me like him more) or the fact that he uses a rifle. No its that it sounds like I'm going to be constantly shooting people at point blank range, and how that feels and looks. At some point around lvl 35, am I going to go "Why didn't they just give this man a club and some grenades and be done with it?" I get visions of Skyrim archers beating people to death with their bows. Its satisfying, yeah, but around mob number 12 you start to feel kind of dirty and awkward.

I'm not saying the vanguard wouldn't be a good tank, or that its mechanic is weird, or even that I want BW to change it. I'm just wondering if that during his job as tank, this rifle man looks, feels and acts like someone wielding a rifle. That the game remembers that lasers come out of the narrow end.

I really dont know what we can do to help if you have an issue with how you feel using range in close the trooper community saying "no its awesome" is only going to help so much. try it yourself it only takes a few hours to get to 10 and if you feel "dirty" let it go and roll a jedi, if your not sure then play a little more. The worst case scenerio is you have a trooper with a few levels under its belt for when you feel an itch to not be a force user.

This is probably the best path I can follow. I was just hoping someone could describe it. Your right, it really is better if I see it for myself. Some friends were trying to convince me to start tanking again a day or so ago. In tall this time before the game's early access I hadn't even considered that role, so I know next to *nothing* about the vanguard.

Role can be an important factor in choosing a class, but so can asthetic style, and of course playstyle. I wanted nothing to do with TRP when I started but I determined to try everything on the side my guild was going into, and now I am stuck on the trooper.

If you know you want to be a tank the good news is you only have to play two classes to find out, and one has the force power type so you are allready less likely to choose it.

But for the record. with the short range attacks you still are standing a bit away from the guy it feels like shotgun range to me.

If you are still in doubt, then see my sig. True story.

Ok, I get that its fun to hit them with your rifle, its just that after a while I'm guessing that a hitting instrument that was actually designed for hitting might seem like more sense.

Role can be an important factor in choosing a class, but so can asthetic style, and of course playstyle. I wanted nothing to do with TRP when I started but I determined to try everything on the side my guild was going into, and now I am stuck on the trooper.

If you know you want to be a tank the good news is you only have to play two classes to find out, and one has the force power type so you are allready less likely to choose it.

Can't the jedi shadow tank?

But for the record. with the short range attacks you still are standing a bit away from the guy it feels like shotgun range to me.

Mmmmmmm laser shotgun. I don't mind short range, its just that every talks like you should spam stock strike, and gutting at all times.

Ok, I get that its fun to hit them with your rifle, its just that after a while I'm guessing that a hitting instrument that was actually designed for hitting might seem like more sense.

I will throw it out to you in the way I am honestly thinking about it. I mean your trooper character is probably meant to be thought of as being among the best of the best. So I do. I think of him as a Spec Ops CQC trained soldiers. Thinking as to how such a soldier would think He would go to that close range combat more than other soldier. Play him with that mindset and it makes perfect sense to me. That being said I have seen alot of ranged enemies that do stay ranged and you can blast away and still tank at range just fine through alot of mobs. I wouldnt say all but alot.

Also.. I kinda agree. I think we should have acess to a different weapon as a vanguard. A shotgun to carry around would just make this class uber ****** even if it only changed the aesthetics of the class.

Just remember that while a rifle can double as a club, a club wont double as a rifle.

Only the toughest threats need to be engaged up close, everything else is blaster fodder...and having a melee weapon means you'll HAVE to get in close to do ANYTHING. Having that rifle means you can charge in guns blazing, grabbing the attention of everything in the room while choosing the most strategic location to bring your other tools to bear on the enemies.

On the flipside, a jedi is going to have much more trouble with positioning, simply because outside of that lightsaber's reach...they aren't quite as threatening. Given that a trooper wont have the force to fall back on, as a consular would, but will have tools to even the game up close...well, it makes sense to be a threat from every position.

This is how I choose to justify it to myself, a vanguard is prepared for EVERY situation, rather than trying to adapt every situation to their ideal.

I will throw it out to you in the way I am honestly thinking about it. I mean your trooper character is probably meant to be thought of as being among the best of the best. So I do. I think of him as a Spec Ops CQC trained soldiers. Thinking as to how such a soldier would think He would go to that close range combat more than other soldier. Play him with that mindset and it makes perfect sense to me. That being said I have seen alot of ranged enemies that do stay ranged and you can blast away and still tank at range just fine through alot of mobs. I wouldnt say all but alot.

I'm starting to think of him just as the name says. A vanguard, front line, first in, up close soldier. *cough*stormtrooper*cough* Its not so much 'pew pew behind cover'. Bu sort of 'Whoa someones shooting me! Now hes in my face! Hitting me with his rifle! And punching me with grenades! What kind of sociopath punches you with grenades?" Maybe not that dramatic, but thats basically the point. Its seems hes the type not to stand around while waiting for you to die by gunfire, hes going to keep the line advancing, even if it means personally kicking you out of the way.

Well I'm practically sold, one more question that is a bit off topic. Are the Vans the dominate tank currently? Or does that title go to the baton twirlers?

The Vanguard is the dominating tank with the information available during the beta. In the beta forums there were a thread calculating the overall mitigation of the tanks. They were very close together with the Vanguard at the top. But mitigation is almost everytime the better tank system than avoidenceand since the guardian uses alot of avoidence and the shadow aswell, the vanguard is better off using passive mitigation.

Through data mining it was confirmed TOR uses a two roll system for the fight and caps for the stats so you will not be able to reach something like "shield cap" (every hit at least will be shielded). And thus passive mitigation > avoidence or shielding.

i felt the very same thing as you described.

but when i reached lvl (8-9?) when i got pulse cannon (bh gets flamethrower, same ability's, different animation) i completely changed my mind.

I know LOVE standing toe to toe with anemies and pulse cannon+stock strike em to death (only lvl10 so far so bare with me )

the point is : try it out, don't like it switch to something you DO LIKE