The very first evil things that the Empire does in Star Wars IV--what some people call a KIDS MOVIE--is this following list:

 

1. Hijacking a ship and murdering many of it's crew
   
2. Torturing a politician from a rival political faction
   
3. Murdering lots of innocent people, leaving smoking corpses
   
4. BLOW UP A PLANET, killing billions in genocide
   

 

What were we expecting, again, in a Star Wars game?

Well I do find it challenging at times to play my villainous role with cunning and style. Choices can be stereotypical and two-dimensional. However, I have found that if you are patient with the cinematics you can get a pretty decent variety of choices in certain story arcs. Overall, I am pleased with the role-playing element of this game and respect biowares decision not to shy away from graphic and intense themes. The Empire was created by a sith who sucked the force out of an entire planet and every creature on it; billions of life forms destroyed just so one being could achieve a measure of immortality. The Empire that spawned from that being would perpetuate exactly the kind of atrocities the game presents. I am a pretty nice guy in real life. However, for entertainment I enjoy a good villain. Shades of grey are all well and good but a true villain is an uncompromising one.

 

So on behalf of villainy...it would appear you are mistaken...about a great ...many.......thingsssss!!!

The Empire is the bad guys, period.

 

They are <insert famous fascist empire that started WW2> in space. The Empire has slaves, is racist (against non-humans), doesn't give its citizens basic human rights, commits violent and brutal acts on a daily basis.

 

They are the bad guys! It'd be silly if the bad guys weren't shown doing bad things.

 

The fact that they are so obviously the bad guys, and that they're shown doing bad things, is what makes fighting against them so heroic. Fighting against them is what makes your Republic characters heroes.

 

One of the major complaints with another MMO, City of Villains, was that the villain characters couldn't be villainous enough. Since the villains weren't really villains it called into question whether the heroes were really heroic.

 

You can't have heroic heroes without having villainous villains for them to fight against.

after reading some of the first few pages and then this last one, i want to chip in my two cents just because i like to discuss stuff

 

I feel like the gender equality issue is a moot point as Vette is not only fictional, but also an alien, so not even HUMAN. there are two potential issues i see with vette

 

A: it is sexist

response: it is a game, nobody forces you to choose the sexist options, and furthermore vette has a negative response to such encounters so it doesnt create any positive feedback

 

B: it is inappropriate for young teens 13-16

response: it is not your, Bioware's, nor the ESRB's, responsibility to dictate to parents (who buy the game for their young children/let them play it) how to raise their child.

 

1. Hijacking a ship and murdering many of it's crew
   

 

Actually, they kill the whole crew. Remember Vader telling the commander to "send a distress signal, then inform the Senate that all aboard were killed." They basically blow the ship up with a flimsy cover story about "reactor trouble" or somesuch, all as cover for the illegal arrest and torture of a Senator, diplomat, and heir to the Royal House of Alderaan.

 

Yeah, evil.

The OP is definitely not alone. I just cancelled three accounts because of this and other issues of sexism. I'd like to point out that even if your SW personally chooses not to use the shock collar on Vette, you're still stuck in an MMO with other players who are using it in public on her. Often while having her dressed in a slave Leia costume.

I heartily endorse everything Alricka just said above me. And I have to say I love having the choice.

 

This game doesn't treat its players half as badly as most others, WoW coming chiefly to mind. Of course we all know we should be good, moral people; that's how society works, that's why we survive as a species, all that. But Star Wars doesn't forcefully steer you towards that ideal, other than the occasional loss of Affection with a companion, there's no immediate punishment for evil decisions. Sure, there might be long-term consequences, but you get to discover those yourself.

 

I consider myself a moral person. I like to think I can make the "right" choices based on my own bloody conscience. I don't need a game to tell me right from wrong; and sometimes, I like doing wrong in SWTOR, because being evil to a bunch of pixels won't hurt anyone real. Just because I could torture someone, doesn't mean I will. And thinking anyone else would, just because the option is there, is an insult to their intelligence.

Eugh, so much wrong in the OP.

 

Look, the Empire is Evil . It's supposed to be Evil . Not good but misunderstood. Evil. If you don't like playing the Evil side, then don't.

This ^

Eugh, so much wrong in the OP.

 

Look, the Empire is Evil . It's supposed to be Evil . Not good but misunderstood. Evil. If you don't like playing the Evil side, then don't.

 

You are clearly mistaken.

 

And even more clearly, you failed to comprehend the OPs marvellously written text, or you lost concentration halfway through.

 

The Empire is Evil when looked upon by "our" standard set of ethics. However, if you play the Sith starter quests, you "begin to understand what it means to be sith". THis borked view of the world should give you enough "justification" to execute the most heinous acts in the name of "Justice".

 

THe problem is, and I believe that is the point the OP is trying to make, that this screwed up view of the world feels hollow, and thus the evil acts are just pointless.

 

In the Jedi storyline, you encounter a Sith who basically turns Jedi because he finds in the Jedi player a strength, honor and sense of loyalty he feels is lost with the Sith.

 

Evil acts can be done when you have the right morale code for it. Pointless torture, cruelty and pointless genocide isnt what the Empire's Evil should be.

You are clearly mistaken...

 

First, he is not "clearly mistaken," only disagreeing with you. Second, merely because you agree with the OP, does not mean it is "marvellously written."

 

The OP is fraught with factual errors that I can only see as intentional so as to obfuscate the point. The shock collar is not inherently sexual. Any connotations to it being sexual reside on the side of the monitor not made up of pixels. Nothing makes this point more than the fact that you cannot shock her, then romance her, then shock her as the OP purports. To even begin to romance Vette, you must remove the collar. Yet, this spurrious line is included in the "marvellously written text" as a red herring, a means by which the OP can make it seem as though the two things are interconnected.

 

Nevermind the fact that you are in control of the choices your character makes. Nevermind the fact that Vette demands you treat her with a modicum of dignity for any romantic advances to find their mark. Nevermind that there exists an entire other line of conversation by which you can treat Vette as an equal, even a doted upon love interest, and even have her friends comment on how she has "softened" the big, bad Sith Warrior.

 

Further, of course the Empire is evil when viewed with our moral compass. That's what a moral compass is for, it provides direction by which we can navigate the intricacies of morality. Without a baseline, the notion of evil, good, or neutrality would be moot.

 

As to the assertion that the evil acts are hollow, and would be better served having a justification of sorts, there is a justification - the Sith world view as encapsulated by the Sith Code. To you, by means of your moral compass, this is hollow and lacks justification, but to the Sith this is their outlook, their moral center. See, that's how a moral compass works, because you and the OP are of a decidedly less than evil frame of mind the evil mentality seems hollow.

 

To pretend that any of these acts would be well received if only there were some greater justification for them is false. How would BioWare creating some sort of justification beyond that of "Evil Empire does Evil Things," allieviate the horror of genocide? Would a more detailed reasoning for said genocide be a salve for the OP? How? By my estimation, that creates a greater problem as you have now taken something the vast majority of us - even kids - take as evil and wrong at face value and created a means by which to justify the action. Now there would be something to get up in arms about...

 

Seriously, a diatribe to rail against the horrors of "sexual violence, slavery, and genocide" only to end with, essentially, "but, hey, give me better justification and it's all good."

You're missing my point entirely. I'm trying to say that it's not justifiable or contributing to the story in any way to have that option.

 

Sure, you can go light side--but the Empire's general persuasion, and the way of the Sith as it is presented in The Old Republic certainly points you in the direction of, at the very least, verbal abuse of a female companion character.

 

I digress--the issue at hand here is primarily a marketing one. The fact that EA, Bioware and ESRB let something come through with a Teen rating, marketed at a younger audience that contains intense sexual violence.

 

Mass Effect 2 is more sophisticated in this manner and yet for some reason bears the M for Mature 17+ rating.

 

SONUVA!

 

I must have played my SW wrong because i missed the "intense sexual violence".

 

Off to roll another one i guess!

Evil acts can be done when you have the right morale code for it. Pointless torture, cruelty and pointless genocide isnt what the Empire's Evil should be.

 

But guess what. It is! The Sith enjoy when others are hurt. That's like shadenfreude level 99. Sure, you can play a good guy, who doesn't kill every other NPC for nothing, hel, there are even some Sith who think that there are emotions stronger than hate. Like.. omg.. love. But they are eventually hunted down and destroyed..

I wonder ... how would you all react if Vette was a male ? Who would have said "This is horrible, this is free and sexual violence on a cute kind boy who wishes to help ! How can you be so passive in regards to violence towards men !" ?

 

 

Honestly, I'd shock him for being annoying, and kept that brat slapped down.

 

As for the article - just another attention-wh.... demanding journalist stirring up ignorant audience. Move along, nothing to see here. Honestly, seeing sexual context in mistreating Vette takes a sick mind. Not going to pretend to know his dirty fantasies. If I shocked her, I shocked her for what she did, not for what she was.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Helig

The OP is definitely not alone. I just cancelled three accounts because of this and other issues of sexism. I'd like to point out that even if your SW personally chooses not to use the shock collar on Vette, you're still stuck in an MMO with other players who are using it in public on her. Often while having her dressed in a slave Leia costume.

 

Would you quit if there was an option to have a boy toy outfit?

 

I admit, its not not fair we get one and you guys dont... but be realistic, every product has a main target audience and this is a male dominated one. If I go into different product I could find myself not having as many options as females, its just my choices.

 

But to quit because of this? Did you ever see one mmo with no chainmail bikinis ? To be consistent with your line of tought you could not play many video games watch videos etc or even stroll down the street on a summer day...

Edited February 20, 2012 by Mateops

Would you quit if there was an option to have a boy toy outfit?

 

Some medium armours look very.... tight on males. Enough to qualify for the "boy-toy" outfit. Had Quinn wearing some of those pieces - never actually noticed before I talked to him. Quickly reverted to something more suited for an officer - even if it meant lower stats.

<...........>

But to quit because of this? Did you ever see one mmo with no chainmail bikinis ? To be consistent with your line of tought you could not play many video games watch videos etc or even stroll down the street on a summer day...

 

Pretty much. Thing is - ladies wear such things willingly and purposefully (to mind-control males, obviously). The ones angry about "sexism" probably don't have the figure for those outfits.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Helig

Some medium armours look very.... tight on males. Enough to qualify for the "boy-toy" outfit. Had Quinn wearing some of those pieces - never actually noticed before I talked to him. Quickly reverted to something more suited for an officer - even if it meant lower stats.

 

There you go! You played according to your own liking and thats good, but did you quit when saw a tight shirt? lol

There you go! You played according to your own liking and thats good, but did you quit when saw a tight shirt? lol

 

Khem Val is the official boytoy of SWToR. By default, he only wears a rug around his waist.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Helig

To the OP:

 

1. You're already killing life forms to progress your character. Murder is worse than anything.

2. You're playing a game.

3. You choose a "bad" faction.

 

My advice:

 

1. Stop playing violent themed video games; you clearly can't deal with them.

2. Learn to separate games from real life.

3. Think before you make bad choices for your delicate sensibilities. I.e. I don't choose pvp servers because I don't like the experience.

 

In fact, better stop thinking so much in general.

 

It's a game. It's easy to deal with it. So deal with it.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Moitteva
removed IC/political

To the OP:

 

1. You're already killing life forms to progress your character. Murder is worse than anything.<.............>

It's a game. It's easy to deal with it. So deal with it.

 

That's modern media system of values for you. Assault, murder, theft, destruction of property, ecocide, and, apparently, genocide are a-ok, but anything with the slightest hint of sexuality (even positive sexuality) is terrible.

One Issue i think the OP is having is the Definition of what a T rating means.

 

[source http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp ]

TEEN

Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

 

MATURE

Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.

 

EVERYONE

Titles rated E (Everyone) have content that may be suitable for ages 6 and older. Titles in this category may contain minimal cartoon, fantasy or mild violence and/or infrequent use of mild language.

 

From what i understand in regards to the OP issues, is that he feels that a T rating is to light of a rating for this game, however based on the actual definition of T rating material, star Wars: The Old Republic Easily falls within said rating.

 

This person and others like him have not understood what society and the legal system considers acceptable for children 13 and older. I believe they think that content that has a T rating should fall under the constraints of The E rating definition. This is simply not the case.

 

Additionally, it seems that the OP hasn't seriously watched or read any of the Star Wars universe material with any depth or understanding. Beginning with the movies and in many many Sanctioned novels, the story of the Dark side is inherently evil and is such a world in that all of the things that SW:TOR that he finds offensive are regularly portrayed, in more detail and in darker situations.

 

As a Parent myself, and a long time fan of Star Wars i have personally chosen to allow my children to read/watch any of the Star Wars story since as a parent it is my responsibility to teach my children about right and wrong and fantasy and reality. For example,while watching movies with my son i always over emphasize how bad they are being in the films " Oh wow son that was really really mean huh?" and " That guy needs to be punished".

 

As far as "intelligently written" i feel that within the constraints of a Online game that uses voice acting and cut-scenes as opposed to large walls of text, they accurately and consistently portray the meaning of said content very well. Understanding that they do have limitations within this media, will go a long way to addressing your issues. This is a game, not a movie or novel.

 

In conclusion, it is my opinion that the Original Poster, has not read or examined any of the Star Wars universe, outside of the theatrically displayed versions, and even then did not fully understand the depth of Evil portrayed in the films. The Original Poster also does not understand the legal and societal definitions of what the ESRB ratings are. Finally the Original poster seems to flavor his writing with inflammatory remarks and small mention of controversial topics (homophobia,lack of same sex relationships) to gain attention to his point of view. These tend to make me believe that while the Original Poster is passionate about what he feels he is angry or upset about the wrong things.

 

Some advice for you: Ethos is sometimes far better received by intelligent audiences as opposed to Pathos, while you attempt to hide your opinions among half truths and misinformation, the truth is always more easily proven. Peoples Passions and emotions will change, the facts do not.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Retro_Chrome

the op has not checked back here i see

the op has not checked back here i see

 

Course not. finally realized that hardly anyone sees what she sees in this game.... after this post, God let this fall into the pit of dead threads..

I am new here.Just want to add my point of view.Yes Empire is evil. Even Jedi knows that if they met Sith they are no match for him. You can't expect from Sith to make a LS decisions.It wouldn't be Sith anymore in this case.But this is only my opinion.Correct me if I am wrong. Edited September 9, 2016 by LordDarkestFears

(I know this is an old thread, but I'm not the one who necro'd it, so )

 

This is the age old "we've gotta protect our children / ban books" theme. There is some stuff in this game that I think would be kind of intense for a teenager, but the stuff in the topic title is not it. First of all, there is no explicit sexual violence... shocking vette is violence. It's not sexual unless you make it sexual in your mind. And given that:

 

 

 

There's also no real explicit violence in general, in the "watch it happen in vivid detail" sense. Cutting away from something brutal is common, as is fading to black, and such. The empire has slavery, but the only slave you can "own" is someone that, spoiler alert, you can't actually break. The empire is known for its genocidal tendencies and brutal practices, but again, none of it is explicitly shown.

 

The only part that would give me pause if I was a parent of a teen is some of the emotional themes in certain quests. For instance: