Jump to content

Can we please dump all this self sustainability


Raansu

Recommended Posts

There's so much self healing, survive-ability and movement abilities now its insane. I miss the old days when it was more spec dependent and there wasn't so much damn self healing and invulnerability and players would actually die once in awhile.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Self heals and God bubbles is what keeps the subs in this game. How else are us bads able to compete?

 

I think barrier is fine. I don't think it should heal you or give you invulnerability after it ends though, nor do I think it should act as a second CC breaker.

Edited by Raansu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think barrier is fine. I don't think it should heal you or give you invulnerability after it ends though, nor do I think it should act as a second CC breaker.

Dude Sorc barrier barely heals you after the utility nerf in whatever patch that was. If we're talking about nerfing DCDs then Mercs should be the first to be nerfed, properly this time.

Second CC break is sorta a point but simply using it that way can bite you in the butt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

honestly most of the classes in the game have a fairly acceptable TTK if you ask me

 

but there's a big problem with how hard it is to kill merc, sniper, and mara dps and naturally these classes get stacked as a result

 

aside from sorc healing still being way too mobile fixing the still-overpowered utilities on merc/mara/sniper that make them so dominant would fix most of the legitimate people not dying problems (as opposed to the illegitimate ones of people being bad or stacking support specs)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder how many people remember the beloved expertise of previous expansion inflicted 10% more raw unmitigated damage to all players? 60% damage inc, 30% damage reduction. applied to "1" base damage, thats 10% of unmitigated damage.

 

 

for those of us who remember.... healers used to die 2v1, tanks used to die 1v1, dps were a coinflip..... then the dark times came.

 

 

*considers the past 2 years of dps parsing in wzs* fffft *shivers*

Edited by Seterade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

honestly most of the classes in the game have a fairly acceptable TTK if you ask me

 

but there's a big problem with how hard it is to kill merc, sniper, and mara dps and naturally these classes get stacked as a result

 

aside from sorc healing still being way too mobile fixing the still-overpowered utilities on merc/mara/sniper that make them so dominant would fix most of the legitimate people not dying problems (as opposed to the illegitimate ones of people being bad or stacking support specs)

 

mobility is definitely another issue. Channeled abilities is supposed to have drawbacks. When they added the ability to run while channeling....dumb.

 

I'm not saying classes should be defenseless, but there's too much combinations. Ops for example, running around with HoTs that can talent into defensive buffs + roll that gives them invulnerability during the roll, and a defense screen with a reflect and dodge with a CD reduction talent? Personally I don't think roll should give invulnerability.

 

Mercs with their reflect and heal and a kolto that can heal to 60% and their regular shield gives a heal.....come on....Reflect is fine, but remove the heal from it, kolto buffing to 60% is fine, remove the heal utility on their shield. There's just too much.

Edited by Raansu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't enjoy most WZs these days. Some classes, and we all know who they are, can be incredibly tough to handle, especially given nerfs to other classes. Like an earlier post indicated, the issues are compounded by the popularity of the OP classes, which means you're usually dealing with 2 or more of them a WZ, which magnifies the level of OPness and near impossibility to kill.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

concealment roll is only disproportionately good in 1v1s or situations where just running away is a winning strategy because of bad obj/map design

 

in a proper team fight operatives are not even remotely on the same level as sniper/mara/merc in terms of how much effort it requires to kill them, removing roll immunity for concealment would just resign it to the spec dumpster with lethality

 

have operative dps EVER been flavor in arenas?

Edited by yellow_
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the way the game has progressed, and to remove classes present sustainability doesn't sound logical. The damage output of some classes would make it extremely out of balance, if classes didn't have the means of escape and mitigation they do today.

 

Vote : No

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mobility is definitely another issue. Channeled abilities is supposed to have drawbacks. When they added the ability to run while channeling....dumb.

 

you were right about this.

 

I'm not saying classes should be defenseless, but there's too much combinations. Ops for example, running around with HoTs that can talent into defensive buffs + roll that gives them invulnerability during the roll, and a defense screen with a reflect and dodge with a CD reduction talent? Personally I don't think roll should give invulnerability.

 

you were not right about this.

 

 

There are two problems with the general direction of PvP in this game. 1) the increase of high movement abilities to all classes 2) increase of "face tanking" defensive cooldowns to all classes, generally allowing for a more dumbed down game expierence.

 

  • Powertechs (with the utility that increases speed on hydrolics)
  • Lightning sorcs (with a cooldown reduction on force speed)
  • Marauder (with the utility granting 70% increased movement on predation)
  • Snipers (with the utility that grants 70% increased movement coming out of entrench)
  • practically every other class that gained some kind of high movement ability in 4.0 such as rocket out and mad dash.

 

All of these classes gained some kind of movement speed increase from 4.0 to now. And I'm sure I'm missing some classes.

 

What every happened to positioning? What ever happened to moving preemptively? What ever happened to actually being able to kite out a marauder? I'll give you an example; lately I've seen sniper's get in trouble, and just start running for their lives. But because of the 70% movement speed out of entrench, it works. What ever happened to using knockback with good positioning? What ever happened to kiting out melee? Now they just run like a chicken without a head until their speed hack like ability wears off.

 

Now, some classes needed some movement increase, like marauders who were getting constantly kited out in 3.0. But not to the extend that they get a 70% movement speed increase off a 30 second CD. Not to mention that predation is a group ability which gives every other teammate the same 70% movement speed increase.

 

Now couple this increase of high mobility with face tanking abilities such as merc reflect/kolto/trauma regulators or mara RA (before it was fixed) or sniper ballistic (before it was fixed) or Sorc's 4 different DRs and you have an extremely dummbed down game. If a player isn't moving with speed hack like abilities, they are face tanking the damage.

 

Again... what happened to positioning? Or kiting? Or choosing your targets wisely if you melee. I used to play mara back in 3.0 and I knew I would never be able to jump onto the enemy healer at the start because I would greatly over-extend, jump into a group of 4 people wihtout a team, and sacrifice myself for no reason. Now, players are able to jump into the back line, face tank the intial damage, and then run back to the back line with their speed boosts. There is no skill to this.

 

On a side note, operative is not over powered. Although they have high mobility, they do not have the same face tanking defensive abilities that other classes have.

 

1) contrary to what many nerf Operative QQers believe, operative roll is on a 10 second CD.

2) contrary to what many nerf Operative QQers believe, operative roll is on the GCD, meaning that they can not attack while rolling.

3) contrary to what many nerf Operative QQers believe, roll + evasion + shield probe are literally the only defensive cooldowns that an operative has, unless you count the trickel 5k heal operative get from their hots.

 

Here is the thing with operative roll. It's invincibility is strong; it has the potential to roll stuns, burst, mezzes, and other critical attacks. But it requires the intelligence to know when to roll. Bad players will roll whenever they see damage on them, and then you burst them because OPERATIVE ROLL HAS A CD. But for some reason, players don't understand that you burst an operative after he has rolled. Not before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sniper entrench run is only 50%, your thinking countermeasure speed.

 

 

I honestly believe con ops deserve the resist yellow/stun. but..... no class deserve a full immunity for more than .5 seconds on a 10 sec cd. its just a broken concept period. all the arguements that they have few dcds, it doesnt allow you to att, it takes intelligence.... it doesn't address the real root of the roll. it resists.. Everything. its literally sorc bubble, without stun break and a 10 sec cd. the issue is not the op dcds, its that one dcds effect. it needs to either be reworked or removed and replaced by 1 or two different dcds/mechanics.

 

personaly I believe the path of least effort without breaking it (bioware trademark approach to nerfs) is just to remove the dodge. make them take white damage and retain resist to yellow.

 

the whole thing is just a throwback to 3.0s "evasion" which used to resist yellow damage as well as purging dots and deflecting white. the theory at the time was every time you rolled you got (non purging) extra evasion. even the dev knew evasion needed to stop resisting yellow... but didnt do anything to the roll effect.

Edited by Seterade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

sniper entrench run is only 50%, your thinking countermeasure speed.

 

Sry. I got the utils mixed up. Haven't played sniper in a while.

 

 

I honestly believe con ops deserve the resist yellow/stun. but..... no class deserve a full immunity for more than .5 seconds on a 10 sec cd. its just a broken concept period. all the arguements that they have few dcds, it doesnt allow you to att, it takes intelligence.... it doesn't address the real root of the roll. it resists.. Everything. its literally sorc bubble, without stun break and a 10 sec cd. the issue is not the op dcds, its that one dcds effect. it needs to either be reworked or removed and replaced by 1 or two different dcds/mechanics.

 

personaly I believe the path of least effort without breaking it (bioware trademark approach to nerfs) is just to remove the dodge. make them take white damage and retain resist to yellow.

 

the whole thing is just a throwback to 3.0s "evasion" which used to resist yellow damage as well as purging dots and deflecting white. the theory at the time was every time you rolled you got (non purging) extra evasion. even the dev knew evasion needed to stop resisting yellow... but didnt do anything to the roll effect.

 

I really disagree. You have to address conc op roll in context with the rest of the spec. If you gave conc op roll to mara or sniper it would, of course, be OP, but the difference is that operative lacks marauder and sniper damage and DCDs. You can't disregard the fact that operatives have no real CDs. You can't disregard the fact that conc op dps (when freecasting) is one of the lowest in both pvp and pve. You can't disregard the fact that when pressured most of their cds are taken either rolling, healing, or kiting.

 

Sure roll can resist every single ability in the game, but when roll is the only real defensive cooldown a class like operatives has, it is easy to play around it. It is easy to not stun an operative with roll up. It is easy to not burst an operative with roll up. In addition to that there are easy ways to stop an operative from rolling. Roots and stuns are operatives biggest weakness. Root an operative and they have to take a GCD to cleanse it before they can roll. Hard stun an operative, and they can't roll (unless they break it with breaker on a 2 min cd).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no one is uner the impression they have great dps, nor that they have "balanced" dcd. if bioware wants to give them a new dcd to compensate, and buff their dps rotation so that it cycles easier (maybe rework tactical proc to be a crit proc rather than situational) if would be a fine trade off.

 

I'm all for buffing them. but con roll needs something to change. no one deserves to be immortal every ten seconds, its just broken. almost as broken as enet.... which humorously enough.. roll is immune too (yes the mando enet works but it is not supposed, that is a bug, which means the intent remains that it resist all things)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's also obnoxious abilities like bubble stun. That should have been removed ages ago.

 

maybe dont jump in when the healer or sorc has their bubble on themselves, and you wont eat that bubble stun. :) just a thought. Also would you want some heals, so you wont eat that stun bubble everytime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

honestly, on pt, mag blast, on deception, ball lightning, op, rifle shot or plasma bomb, jugg force scream, mara same. its legit the easiest cd to counter, its just people dont use tactics anymore... does it suffer your dps to take a sec to counter it? yes, its a good dcd... like RA, any merc dcd. but its not broken. at all.

 

(to be clear, I am not "backing up" my "save my class" dcd, I use 30% stun/aoe def, increased forcespeed/polarization and force emersion in heroic. I play lightning sorc, not dot and I benefit more in pvp from more insta casts of bolt.)

 

I honestly dont use it, but I dont have an issue with those who do. the only sorcs with bubble stun I am wary of are those who have mastered clicking it off in your radius rather than as an defensive cd

Edited by Seterade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

honestly, on pt, mag blast, on deception, ball lightning, op, rifle shot or plasma bomb, jugg force scream, mara same. its legit the easiest cd to counter, its just people dont use tactics anymore... does it suffer your dps to take a sec to counter it? yes, its a good dcd... like RA, any merc dcd. but its not broken. at all.

 

(to be clear, I am not "backing up" my "save my class" dcd, I use 30% stun/aoe def, increased forcespeed/polarization and force emersion in heroic. I play lightning sorc, not dot and I benefit more in pvp from more insta casts of bolt.)

 

I honestly dont use it, but I dont have an issue with those who do. the only sorcs with bubble stun I am wary of are those who have mastered clicking it off in your radius rather than as an defensive cd

 

I know how to counter bubble stun just fine. Doesn't make it any less obnoxious. Personally I think you're a bad player if you rely on such a cheesy utility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as opposed to every merc on swtor right now?

 

(ironically bubble stun cant counter cheesy merc dcd, but still)

 

I've said fully that mercs need to be massively nerfed. Both their shield and reflect need to lose its self healing properties.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...