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Gut vs. Energy Blast

Mantang's Avatar


Mantang
01.28.2013 , 12:26 PM | #1
Hello all. I'm just getting back into the game after being gone since I think patch 1.1 (whatever one had the original Rhakghoul outbreak). I used to do raids and HM Flashpoints and I mained a Vanguard Tank. Way back then the Gut vs. Energy Blast debate went back and forth a good bit but nobody every came up with a solid answer on which was the better route to go. I know there have been numerous patch updates since I left.

Basically each side had these arguments back in the day:

EB allowed you to jump back up into max recharge range allowing you to fit in another damaging move once every 30 seconds (I forget which one).

Gut allowed you to maintain damage when you needed to switch back and forth between targets and thereby maintaining multi-mob threat.

If I recall correctly the math indicated either could be better and the deciding factor was enemy armor. Personally, I ended up using Gut as it just seemed more fun and made a decent PvP spec too.

If anyone can tell/direct me to any definitive argument made in my absence I would much appreciate it! Thank you for any assistance!

JimmyTheCannon's Avatar


JimmyTheCannon
02.15.2013 , 01:35 AM | #2
Energy Blast also makes it easier to keep your absorb buff stacks up, which is a definite factor in PVE tanking.

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
02.15.2013 , 01:42 AM | #3
Energy blast has always been better since they added it. It's not much of a contest.

Edit: *since they changed it* I had forgotten that the original ability had the same name I guess. Its been a while.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.15.2013 , 02:42 AM | #4
Back at release, Energy Blast was a painfully mediocre ability: it did pretty much the same damage as Ion Pulse but restored one Ammo rather than costing 2. It was, functionally, an ability that restored 3 ammot when you used Ion Pulse once every 15 seconds. As such, it was generally considered to be painfully mediocre, which is why a lot of people opted into Gut instead.

*However*, when Energy Blast was tweaked such that it was taken off of the GCD, Energy Blast became *amazing*. First off, you have to consider that, since Energy Blast is off of the GCD, you can no longer directly compare their damage, since you're using it on top of other attacks. As such, the worst case you're gonna get is Hammer Shot + Energy Blast for a GCD compared to Gut. Now, HS + EB deal roughly the same amount of damage as Gut does so it's largely a wash from a raw DPS perspective. However, because Gut costs 2 Ammo whereas HS+EB restores 1 Ammo, you're functionally paying 3 ammo via Gut to do the same amount of damage as HS+EB. Furthermore, Gut is a DoT whereas HS+EB is instant damage: since frontloaded damage is more useful for threat generation, HS+EB win again.

Now, as to using Gut to DoT up multiple targets, it's neither useful nor is it particularly effective. Gut does less up front damage than Ion Pulse (remember, Ion Pulse is elemental damage, which is roughly 40% better than K/E dps thanks to enemy damage reduction) or Stockstrike and deals a pittance of damage considering its 15 second duration (most DoTs that long would deal *way* more damage than Gut does). As a functional DoT, it's not particularly useful because it deals too little damage over too longer of a time frame, not to mention that, if you do use it on more than 1-2 targets, you're going to find yourself running out of ammo incredibly quickly. Without all of the stuff that Tactics gets (increased internal/elemental damage dealt with cell and talent, increased bleed damage with talent), Gut just isn't a worthwhile attack. Ergo, don't take Gut unless you're doing Tactics.

TL:DR Energy Blast is better than Gut for VG tanks; no contest.
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Memo-'s Avatar


Memo-
02.17.2013 , 02:29 PM | #5
What Kitru said.

For PvP things aren't just as clear though. If you go into Tactics and take Gut and the lowered cooldown on Riot Strike you gain 2 utility advantages: you have an easier time at shutting down enemy healers (or cast-dependent dps's) and you can more easily bring enemy stealthers back into the battle if they try to escape (Gut is much longer than your Ion Overload, and Ion Overload is unpredictable unless you happen to have Stockstrike off cooldown.).

Those extra points needed to get those points from Tactics make you lose some shield/absorption and Energy Blast from the tank tree, both of which can be given away quite lightly. You really don't need the extra shield chance or Power Screen via Ion Pulse/Energy Blast. So what you really are losing is just Energy Blast, which of course is straight up elemental dps off the gcd, but you'll have to weigh its value in with the utility boosts from Tactics. Your call.
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unluckyperson's Avatar


unluckyperson
02.17.2013 , 07:38 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Memo- View Post
What Kitru said.

For PvP things aren't just as clear though. If you go into Tactics and take Gut and the lowered cooldown on Riot Strike you gain 2 utility advantages: you have an easier time at shutting down enemy healers (or cast-dependent dps's) and you can more easily bring enemy stealthers back into the battle if they try to escape (Gut is much longer than your Ion Overload, and Ion Overload is unpredictable unless you happen to have Stockstrike off cooldown.).

Those extra points needed to get those points from Tactics make you lose some shield/absorption and Energy Blast from the tank tree, both of which can be given away quite lightly. You really don't need the extra shield chance or Power Screen via Ion Pulse/Energy Blast. So what you really are losing is just Energy Blast, which of course is straight up elemental dps off the gcd, but you'll have to weigh its value in with the utility boosts from Tactics. Your call.

Actually I do a fair amount of PvP, and I run with about a 45% shield chance in my PvP gear. Since switching in PvP I lose my riot strike interrupt, but the one thing I've noticed is that my character doesn't stop screaming. I run into a Warzone and when combat starts, almost all I hear is the screaming sound that lets you know your shield activates. If you actually look closer at a lot of the abilities of the different classes, many use Kinetic or Energy damage, unless you come up against someone who's damage is almost purely from DoT effects. The only real problem with running a high shield chance in PvP is that as Taugrim had pointed out our shields don't affect critical hits. Depending on what you come up against in PvP (in terms of equipment and classes) you can easily run into people who can get their critical rate near 70% or get an automatic critical hit. That being said, as far as durability goes, I haven't been able to determine much yet mostly because I haven't had a good testing environment (with warzones, or ilum pvp zone you never know exactly what people are wearing, and in PvP equipment sometimes makes a huge difference).

Note about why I switched: I switched over to using Energy Blast because from an ammo cost comparison that Kitru mentioned, which effectively means that you get a free Ion Pulse (when compared to using a build with gut, you could technically say that you get more than that, but I don't use many of the channel abilities much in PvP) and 1 ammo, which if you compare that to Gut gives you overall more damage. In PvP the first hit from Gut can be mitigated, but the DoT can't. The nice thing with substituting Ion Pulse from the extra ammo is that both EB and IP cannot be reduced.