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WTB, with say Cartel coins, new skins so jedi arent junk & pebble throwers....


Dyvim

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Edit: Updating original post to be more concise.

 

This proposal is for alternate animations, purchasable with Cartel Coins, for two consular skills, project and telekinetic throw. The underlying functions and stats for these skills would remain UNCHANGED. With the mirror design paradigm of this game in mind, where identical or like powers simply had new animations slapped on top of them in order to mirror classes, the concept of alternate animations seems entrenched into this game already. Project and Throw currently have snicker-worthy junk, rocks and pebbles animations that strike many as thoroughly un-jedi like and unpowerful. Moreover, in contrast with the lightning on the sith side, the coolness factor gap is huge. There have been complaints and dissatisfaction with these junk animations and the theme it creates for jedi consular's since the earliest days of beta.

 

With all the alternate animations for things like out-of combat rejuvenation, the cartel market is the perfect place to allow players to customize the look and feel of their jedi AWAY from a junk tossing, pebble throwing fred flintsone, WoW-ish earth shaman reject. Also, people that are happy with the current animations could keep them.

 

While there are MANY possibilities, I have limited my proposed replacements to ani’s that are already in the game, in some way, shape or form. I am also trying to focus on canon abilities that are more light side oriented than junk throwing, which we saw every sith do in the movies, much more than jedi, and more than sith lightning even.

 

The proposed replacements:

 

Project:

 

1) Force Burst: The Inquisitor companion, Ashara Zavros, a fallen padawan, has a skill called Force Burst. It is the best mirror animation for Shock I have seen in the game. It is instant, has a quick hand gesture, and has no projectile...the target is hit with force energy...almost exactly like what shock does....it is described in the tooltip as "A powerful burst of force energy that deals kinetic damage...". Here is a photo that compares the two, Force Burst and Shock, side by side:

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8731/forceburstvsshock.jpg

 

2) Electric Judgment (aka Emerald Fire) - green, more concentrated sparcs or arcs of lightning would be very cool, and are canon (but rare) for jedi. Nice analog for Shock. Picture a more concentrated arc...more focused. A green colored version of the Trooper's Ion Pulse, for example. Canon reference to it for info… http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment

 

"A Jedi sufficiently strong in the Force can be trained to produce a facsimile, but not true Sith lightning." ―Darth Plagueis

 

Concept for what it could look like as an arc:

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/knox1709/EmeraldArc.jpg"]http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/knox1709/EmeraldArc.jpg[/url]

 

3) Saber Dance: Replace project with a saber throw on steroids...motion blurred and bad ***....consulars are the ones that can throw things and yet they can’t throw one of the MOST deadly things in the universe, that happens to ALREADY be in THEIR HAND - their lightsaber???? People have long complained that cons/sages use their saber almost NONE. Where here is a chance to change that.... That makes sense...also, a double-bladed throw for shadows would rock. Also, if the devs were worried about distinguishing it from other saber throws, again, this should be more refined....so let them throw the hilt and ignite the blade at impact, or some other such affect of being able to remotely ignite the blade. Would look awesome and distinguish it from other throws. We saw Yoda impale a clone with his saber in ROTS, so imagine a saber throw where the consular ignites the blade as it reaches the target and impales the target with it, then the con pulls the saber back to his hand....nice concept, as lore based as it gets.

 

In fact, it is in this game already, again, as a cut scene in the Esseles, except it is done by the sith end boss that throws and chokes the trooper up against a wall before he throws the saber, ignites it as it strikes the trooper to impale him, then yanks it back...so subtract the choking and sith face paint, and you get the idea.

 

 

4) FORCE TREMOR: I knew there was a reason I liked the name Force Tremor...it is ALREADY in the GAME....AGAIN. This time Kira has it, and it looks very good. I think it is a PBAoE, but the animation itself would be AWESOME as a retooled Project replacement. Kira makes a very cool Hand motion, with force effects, where she reaches up into the air, then slams her hand down...and then the ground quakes and splits as the affected target has particles around him....here is a pic of the start and the end to refresh people's memories:

 

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/knox1709/ForceTremor.jpg"]http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/knox1709/ForceTremor.jpg[/url]

 

 

Telekinetic Throw (pebblestorm):

 

1) Force (Burst) Throw: It turns out that the sith side is full of all the good jedi ani's...the Agent has a companion named Raina Temple...and she is force sensitive...and she ALSO has a power called Force Burst...with ANOTHER animation, different from Ashara's. And this animation is exactly what some people had envisioned when suggesting a pebblestorm, err Throw, replacement...it needs to be looped to pulse as a channeled effect, right now it is instant. The particles in the animation could also stand to be more substantial, or beefed up....

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1658/forceburst.jpg

 

 

2) Emerald Fire: (version of Electric Judgment) There is some variance in the idea of what EJ could look like….Plo Kloon’s was yellow…Luke Skywalker's was green…so anyway, it would be easy enough to have a Throw replacement that was more Emerald Fire Lightning like, and would like like this:

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/knox1709/EmeraldFire.jpg"]http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q639/knox1709/EmeraldFire.jpg[/url]

 

3) FORCE TREMOR (channeled): From Ultimas, an idea I'll label Force Tremor: "I say a good replacement for Telekinetic Throw would be a mini-Force Quake that targets a single enemy, Channeled damage and a more bad*** animation. I'm all in on the project replacement. EDIT: I added Kira's Force Tremor above as another option for a project replacement, but this would be a great channeled ani, too, as I see it as a combination of Force Quake and Force Tremor....

 

How it would work:

 

Here is a simple, dirty mockup of what the "p" Abilities window would look like with Emerald Fire (Electric Judgment) and Saber Dance on the Consular tab - they could just as easily be on the Legacy tab:

 

http://imageshack.com/a/img585/8482/m4im.jpg

 

I referenced Emerald Fire/Electric Judgment above and linked to canon info about it - EF is an obvious alternate for Throw/pebblestorm. Saber Dance would be an alternate for Project. As the consular version of a saber throw, its hallmark would be MORE elegance and control than the knight versions, who are not as adept at telekinetics. These alternative animations would be slottable on your toolbars, like any other skill. You could even put an alternate right next to its original. It would be the same things as putting two copies of the same skills next to each other...they share the same cooldown, etc. They are functionally identical, they just LOOK different because they have a different animation.

 

For example, Project has the upheaval talent, where you get a chance to pull up a second piece of magical junk for additional damage...Saber Dance would handle this with a quick boomerang second hit, after its first hit on the target. Without the second hit proc, it would just return normally. With Force Burst as a Project alternate, the double hit would look like a "double pump", just like Shock does now. Electric Judgment would handle it with a second arc of force power.

 

And again, these are OPTIONAL, PURCHASABLE...win win win. And there is no reason you couldn't provide players with multiple options...the game is aging, we have all seen the same ani's a BILLION times....why not give players some choice and a VERY cool way to customize their toons a bit? And why not start with the most lackluster ani's?

 

 

Original Post:

 

Always said put your money where you mouth is...I would be perfectly happy to pay for a set of alternate animations for project and throw so my jedi is NOT a junk, rock and pebble thrower. Why do they bother me? Because in the movies, Sith throw junk, all the time, all of them, much more than jedi, and in fact in the movies sith throw junk more than they use lightning, even. It also strikes me as inelegant and sloppy, like a temper tantrum - very darkside. Some love it. The people that like the fred flintstone rock and gravel earth shaman mode can remain in bliss. This would be alternate ani's for abilities that we are already used to seeing some companions use...more on that in a bit.

 

When I see in the game all the alternate ani's now for the out of combat recuperate/regen (bacta tanks, imperial healing bed, gree digitizer, etc., etc.,) it really strikes me as doable for EAware to start making money off people that would like to see some different combat animations for skills, especially bread and butter skills that we have all seen millions of times. The junk and pebble throwing for jedi has been WILDLY unpopular for many players ever since the earliest days of beta, and has been a constant source of derision and snickering. The coolness factor compared to lightning is non-existent. The lack of a truly interactive environment makes throwing skills silly on many levels, and at the end of the day, even if the game engine could do it right, without magically conjuring junk out of the ground, jedi STILL are not junk throwers.

...

So yes, this would take some dev time, but yes, I am willing to pay for it. Others would be too. So instead of a new gsf skin or whatever, or random packs that have worse odds than a lottery for actually getting something you want, I would love to buy something like this that made the game feel more like a jedi experience for me. And yes, it would be completely optional. I would foresee it as another ability icon in my powers window, with the EXACT same stats as the old ones, just a new icon on a new button that fires a new ani on top of an old ability. There are plenty of other ideas for replacing the junk, rocks, and pebbles, but the above are very straightforward.

Edited by Dyvim
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I prefer my shadow to my assassin specifically because telekinesis feels more natural than silly lightning. I could see paying... oh... 60 cartel coins for a pack to throw nearby things vs a rock each time.

 

Well, I find the canon important, particularly the ultimate canon of the movies. Complaining about sith using lightning, or calling it silly is nonsensical in that context. I can see how you would like to have your sith throwing junk, since that is also very much a part of the canon for SITH, as ALL OF THEM DID IT, even more than lightning. But NOT JEDI. Regardless, this would be an optional skin, and your shadows junk tossing would still be there for you.

 

Lightning looks cooler than pebblestorm or pulling up random crap out of a starship deck, etc. If you disagree, that is fine, since that is subjective...what isn't subjective is the clear, CRYSTAL clear examples of frequency of Sith being the junk tossers, if anyone is. Basing a jedi class on a combat move that sith used even more than they used lightning, just doesn't cut it for this star wars fan. There is a reason no other game has had jedi as junk tossing earth shamans. It doesn't fit, and it is particularly stupid if you don't have a game engine that can have a real interactive environment. What is even more stupid, is that without such a game engine to add in the required coolness factor, you are back to the inescapable truth that junk throwing is not a jedi hallmark ANYWAY.

 

But seriously alternate ani's or skins for the most commonly used abilities, with some cool alternatives, could go over well for many classes...choice and selection is always a good thing, and as I said, Im willing to pay for it, as are others, Im sure.

Edited by Dyvim
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Signed. I'd pay a lot more than 60 cartel coins for this. I'd probably pay 6000 cartel coins if it were an option.

 

I know that this has the potential to disrupt some PvP balance, so make the animations a local-only thing. Either way, I'm tired of throwing gravel.

 

Amen.

 

I don't see how it could damage pvp balance. Its pretty simple, the examples I give above fit into the skills exactly...you need an instant ani for project and a channeled one for throw. There should be no problems, as the examples I gave above are jedi looking abilities and clearly not sith abilitites in the first place. They are already in the game. Or are you thinking of something else? If so, please let me know.

 

But yeah, I would pay a butt load to get rid of the junk tossing and pebble storming...it always has been ridiculous to me. A joke in bad taste.

Edited by Dyvim
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When I see in the game all the alternate ani's now for the out of combat recuperate/regen (bacta tanks, imperial healing bed, gree digitizer, etc., etc.,) it really strikes me as doable for EAware to start making money off people that would like to see some different combat animations for skills, especially bread and butter skills that we have all seen millions of times.

 

Another alternate ani pack for project and throw could be the green or yellow sparks/lightning known as Electric Judgment. Now, this wouldn't be my first choice, but hell I'd still buy it just to have an option to see something different for a change. And the people that like the rocks and pebbles get to keep them, and it doesn't cost em anything more to do it...lol.

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It sounds to me like y'all need to try the TK spec. Turbulence, disturbance, telekinetic wave - nothing sissy about that stuff. A TK sage almost never uses telekinetic throw or project.

 

EDIT: Talking about sage, not shadow.

Edited by teclado
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It sounds to me like y'all need to try the TK spec. Turbulence, disturbance, telekinetic wave - nothing sissy about that stuff. A TK sage almost never uses telekinetic throw or project.

 

EDIT: Talking about sage, not shadow.

 

Point well taken, yes those skills are much more jedi like, and are fine. Problem is they are for one build of one advanced class...many sages and all shadows are completely stuck with chunk-a-clunker and pebblestorm, unfortunately. Some people like them, in spite of the movies and preponderance of the lore. I get that. In spite of the silly nature of the animations of pebbles and pulling up magic junk out of the floors...that I don't really get...although people will like what they like...BUT that is why I am proposing the cartel shop alternate skin approach...if you like it, you ACTUALLY get to keep it...lol. And the rest of us, who have been complaining about this junk, literally since beta (for those of us left), get an option we are willing to pay for....

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Point well taken, yes those skills are much more jedi like, and are fine. Problem is they are for one build of one advanced class...many sages and all shadows are completely stuck with chunk-a-clunker and pebblestorm, unfortunately. Some people like them, in spite of the movies and preponderance of the lore. I get that. In spite of the silly nature of the animations of pebbles and pulling up magic junk out of the floors...that I don't really get...although people will like what they like...BUT that is why I am proposing the cartel shop alternate skin approach...if you like it, you ACTUALLY get to keep it...lol. And the rest of us, who have been complaining about this junk, literally since beta (for those of us left), get an option we are willing to pay for....

 

Actually the sage animations are an advantage in pvp. Sage is not easily distinguished.

Edited by Aetideus
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Actually the sage animations are an advantage in pvp. The caster is not easily distinguished.

 

It doesn't make as much of a difference as you would think. I can spot a TK sage almost instantly, and Balance is even faster. I mean, I think it's safe to say that for inexperienced players, a GIANT LINE OF LIGHTNING is easier to trace back to its source than a line of pebbles, but an experienced PvPer isn't even going to have to think about finding either one of them.

 

With that said, I do subjectively wish that the Thundering Blast cast were as unobtrusive as the Turbulence cast. :-)

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Actually the sage animations are an advantage in pvp. Sage is not easily distinguished.

 

You mean, except for all the markers in the game, including the profession markers you have optionally over your head and the fact that any sage has another huge marker placed in them in pvp by the opposing team, especially if they are heals...

 

But yeah, I have heard that argument. Other than the obvious marker issue, here is whats wrong with it. 1) most people don't pvp, and if they do so, they don't do it exclusively. Those that do pvp all the time have NO problem spotting a sage in any of its incarnations....also, its a two sided coin...if you are going to be ranged and zap someone from a distance, like virtually every other ranged class, you should have the same amount of visibility....pebblestorm is pretty easy to see, chunk a clunker is not as much...so why should one class get a benefit its MIRROR and other ranged classes do not? Like I said, two sided coin....and MORE importantly, like I said earlier, this is OPTIONAL, buy the skins and use them, OR NOT.

 

You like the junk, rocks and pebbles, you get to keep them. BW gets to make more money, and they can even do it be recycling ani's that are already in the game and are completely suitable, as I pointed out with two examples in the OP. And players GET CHOICE and the option for a more jedi, particularly LIGHT jedi feel. Its win win win.

 

There are many other examples for a pair of replacements for project and throw...like:

 

1) Electric judgment (aka Emerald Fire) - green, more concentrated sparcs or arcs of lightning would be very cool, and are canon (but rare) for jedi. Perfect replacement for pebble throw. Instead of mass of lightning, picture a more concentrated arc...more focused, less randomly full of sprayed hate...lol. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment

 

2) Replace project with a saber throw on steroids...motion blurred and bad ***....consulars are the ones that can throw things and yet they cant throw one of the MOST deadly things in the universe, that happens to ALREADY be in THEIR HAND - their lightsaber???? People have long complained that cons/sages use their saber almost NONE. Where here is a chance to change that.... That makes sense...also, a doublebladed throw for shadows would rock.

 

Emerald fire and a beefed up saber throw would be a GREAT set of replacement alternate ani's, too.

 

And again, these are OPTIONAL, PURCHASABLE...win win win.

Edited by Dyvim
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In spite of what I said prior, I get it. TK is much harder in pvp and solo pve, so I inevitably go balance. I'm back to pebble throwing as one of my main abilities.

 

Yep.

 

BTW, if anyone cares to chime in on this, I made a thread in the cartel market suggestion box:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=718365

 

The idea is fleshed out a little more there, explained better, along with a mock-up.

Edited by Dyvim
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IMO, if you don't like the rocks, then just play a Sorcerer. I hate the lightning and I like the rocks. I honestly don't see the devs going through all the trouble of creating a system to change animations on the fly, even for real cash. There won't be that many people who use it.

 

I've never understood this hatred of the rocks, but hey to each his own. But I'm sick of people asking to change it because I like throwing rocks and droids at people and I don't want the devs to think this is some kind of universal opinion.

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IMO, if you don't like the rocks, then just play a Sorcerer. I hate the lightning and I like the rocks. I honestly don't see the devs going through all the trouble of creating a system to change animations on the fly, even for real cash. There won't be that many people who use it.

 

I've never understood this hatred of the rocks, but hey to each his own. But I'm sick of people asking to change it because I like throwing rocks and droids at people and I don't want the devs to think this is some kind of universal opinion.

 

First, if you like the junk and the rocks, you get to keep them. This is optional. You don't seem to understand...there is NO requirement for a new system...all the pieces are already in place. You buy the alternate ani. It shows up in your powers/abilities window (p key). You slot it on your toolbar, just like with the alternate rejuvenation anis, or alternate quick travel destinations, etc. It would be just like slotting two copies of Project next to each other. That is what you are doing, essentially. It is the same skill, same stats, same shared cooldown, just different icon and animation. It is extremely simple, with minimal dev effort...I SPECIFICALLY tailored the proposal that way...and in a way so that people that liked what they have get to keep it - like you.

 

Just play sith? What an inappropriate response. But a completely expected response from someone, such as yourself, that likes junkyard jedi. Or for someone who's justification for wanting to keep rocks and not provide choice for other players, is simply because you "like it". For fans of the star wars universe that pay attention to the lore, playing the sith side or the rep side isn't just interchangeable with no big difference. That is like saying there is no difference between the jedi order or the sith.....or the darkside of the force versus the lightside.

 

Now, this isn't about simple personal preference. Not mine, not yours, which everyone could care less about. It especially isn't about YOUR likes and hates, so let me explain it to you since you must have slept through the six movies or just not paid attention. Sith were the junk throwers, predominantly. They threw junk, ever since Vader on Bespin, all the time, EVERY single sith, MORE than they used lightning, even. That is why, to someone that actually wants a jedi role playing experience, basing the consular class on skills that were shown to be hallmarks of the sith is just not acceptable.

 

Every time I see junk chunked, I think Vader or Dooku, or Palpatine. Why? Because they are the ones that used it ad nauseam. In the licensed games over the decades, junk throwing, if present (which it wasn't in the kotors) has been a darkside trait, starting back with DF2: Jedi Knight in 1997. It has NEVER, EVER been the basis for a jedi class, or represented their hallmark skills. Until this game where sith have lightning and jedi have....junk and pebbles. SO in other words, they got it wrong, and people have been telling them this since beta. ALOT of people. So if you think alternate ani's for chunk a clunker and pebblestorm wouldn't be popular, you are wildly mistaken.

 

Also, this game engine simply cannot do junk throwing right. Back in 1997, in jedi knight, for example, DARKSIDERS threw items that were IN THE ENVIRONMNENT. This game cant handle that, so it has to cheat by magically conjuring up junk from the ground and pebbles out of thin air. Even when it is impossible for that to happen, like rocks from a starship deck, etc. Or are we to believe there are droid junk yards with spare parts underneath our feet every where we walk? Or buried rock piles? It is ridiculous, just as ridiculous as making junk throwing the basis for consulars, since jedi have NEVER = junk. Got it yet?

 

As far as the trouble for the devs or their level or effort, as I also pointed out, EVERY single suggestion is already in the game in some way, shape or form. So it really isn't any different than adding a new emote, or a new rejuvenation animation, or a new blaster skin (with a new sound), or any of the other host of things in the cartel market, which is designed to get people to pay for things the devs can crank out with minimal effort. And this proposal involves minimal effort. No "whole new system" is needed. Perhaps you just didn't read the prior posts.

 

It is pretty ironic that you want to keep junk throwing jedi when jedi aren't junk throwers - and deny other players the option of paying for something else. You get to keep what you like. You don't get to tell other players what they have to keep or have to like, whether you "understand" it or not...or can remember the movies, or not, or whatever.

Edited by Dyvim
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First, if you like the junk and the rocks, you get to keep them. This is optional. You don't seem to understand...there is NO requirement for a new system...all the pieces are already in place. You buy the alternate ani. It shows up in your powers/abilities window (p key). You slot it on your toolbar, just like with the alternate rejuvenation anis, or alternate quick travel destinations, etc. It would be just like slotting two copies of Project next to each other. That is what you are doing, essentially. It is the same skill, same stats, same shared cooldown, just different icon and animation. It is extremely simple, with minimal dev effort...I SPECIFICALLY tailored the proposal that way...and in a way so that people that liked what they have get to keep it - like you.

 

No, you don't understand. I don't want the devs to spend even a second working on this. Even Musco writing up this idea is too much time.

 

Just play sith? What an inappropriate response. But a completely expected response from someone, such as yourself, that likes junkyard jedi. Or for someone who's justification for wanting to keep rocks and not provide choice for other players, is simply because you "like it". For fans of the star wars universe that pay attention to the lore, playing the sith side or the rep side isn't just interchangeable with no big difference. That is like saying there is no difference between the jedi order or the sith.....or the darkside of the force versus the lightside.

 

lol.

 

OK, if we want to go with the LORE, then the suggestions in this thread fail even harder. Jedi Sages should be using their lightsabers and maybe a force push at most.

 

"A jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never to attack." - Yoda

 

Remember that? But the GAME can't allow that, because then the Sorcerer wouldn't be a mirror class.

 

Now, this isn't about simple personal preference. Not mine, not yours, which everyone could care less about. It especially isn't about YOUR likes and hates, so let me explain it to you since you must have slept through the six movies or just not paid attention. Sith were the junk throwers, predominantly. They threw junk, ever since Vader on Bespin, all the time, EVERY single sith, MORE than they used lightning, even. That is why, to someone that actually wants a jedi role playing experience, basing the consular class on skills that were shown to be hallmarks of the sith is just not acceptable.

 

Yes, but you aren't suggesting that Sage don't have Project or TK throw. You suggesting alternate animations. There is NO justification for that in the movies. None. The closest power you see to that is the force push the Jedi use against droids.

 

As far as the trouble for the devs or their level or effort, as I also pointed out, EVERY single suggestion is already in the game in some way, shape or form. So it really isn't any different than adding a new emote, or a new rejuvenation animation, or a new blaster skin (with a new sound), or any of the other host of things in the cartel market, which is designed to get people to pay for things the devs can crank out with minimal effort. And this proposal involves minimal effort. No "whole new system" is needed. Perhaps you just didn't read the prior posts.

 

The new rejuvenation system is a different power with the same effect. It's a new power. What you're asking for is for Sages to be given two new powers that they put on their toolbars instead of Project or TK Throw. Which the devs then have to go back and change every power that interacts with those powers to ensure they work properly with the new powers. Yeah, that will happen. :rolleyes:

 

It is pretty ironic that you want to keep junk throwing jedi when jedi aren't junk throwers - and deny other players the option of paying for something else. You get to keep what you like. You don't get to tell other players what they have to keep or have to like, whether you "understand" it or not...or can remember the movies, or not, or whatever.

 

I don't care what you like. But I have every right to disagree with your idea. I don't want you idea to come into being. It's that simple. You may not understand why. I don't care. I'm expressing my preference that Bioware, read your idea and have a hearty 'lol' and get back to more productive work.

 

And, whether you agree or not, what you do in game does effect others. This isn't a single player game. If some folks are walking around with green lightning (talk about lore breaking) I have to see it. I'm sorry you don't like your Sage, but that's why there are different classes. I hate the Rocket Punch of Bounty Hunters and so I prefer to play Vanguards or Mercenaries (who don't depend on it).

 

If your idea is allowed, then the visual consistency of the game will fall apart . Because it is not just about Sages. If you get your way, then I want better, less silly Bounty Hunter animations. Then someone else will want to use lightning on their Operative. Choice is important, but it can go too far.

Edited by Master-Nala
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No, you don't understand. I don't want the devs to spend even a second working on this. Even Musco writing up this idea is too much time.

 

Oh, no, I get it. One loud, obnoxious, selfish vote against. Thanks for the bump. I wonder how many players feel like voting against things like more dev time on gsf stuff? You can't please everyone. In this case, however, you clearly have not read and cannot understand. So your posts, your motivations, and your unwillingness to allow logical player choice options for others speak for themselves.

 

OK, if we want to go with the LORE, then the suggestions in this thread fail even harder. Jedi Sages should be using their lightsabers and maybe a force push at most.

 

"A jedi uses the force for knowledge and defense, never to attack." - Yoda

 

Remember that? But the GAME can't allow that, because then the Sorcerer wouldn't be a mirror class.

 

Sure, I also remember every single sith throwing junk, more than they used lightning, in six movies starting with vader on bespin. Much more than jedi. In fact jedi threw things at opponents twice...Anakin, after he had already slaughtered women and children and was well on his way to the darkside, and Yoda threw back one senate pod, after palpatine threw many at him. It was more of a reflective, defensive move, compared to what palp was doing.

 

Now we do agree on a few things...yes, THEY should be using their lightsaber, and saber throw is about as logical as it gets...hence that is a suggestion...and Yoda did saber throw into a clone trooper. Now HOW does that fail? It doesn't and your assertion that it does is nonsensical. We also agree that force push should be prevalent. Pushing an aggressor away from you is an inherently defensive move. NOT ROCKS and GRAVEL, which aren't seen in 6 movies ONE SINGLE TIME, especially not being magically pulled out of the ground. NOT ONCE. Not in the original kotors for jedi, not in ANY OTHER GAME as the basis of light jedi skills. Dark jedi, YES. So what we have now is hard, epic fail. Any reasonable person can see that, if they choose to look.

 

But back to force push. When palp zaps yoda, how does yoda respond? Force Push. We also see several other light jedi use it. And the two skills I personally prefer as alternates, Ash's and Zaina's force bursts are VERSIONS of force push. They are ALREADY in the game. They already have animations, which could be tweaked (Ash's is fine, Raina's could be beefed up a bit), and icons. Now how does that FAIL? THEY are based off force push AND ARE IN THE GAME NOW. Again, you make a nonsensical statement.

 

EVERY SINGLE suggestion in this thread is based on LORE...I provided the canon wiki post for EJ/Emerald Fire. They aren't my personal favorites, but they are viable choices. Saber throw...canon for consular (yoda) and in the game already. Force Push...as canon as it gets, and in the game already with multiple versions of force burst. So again you either haven't read, don't understand, or just want to make nonsensical statements.

 

But something else we agree on. The game does have mirrors. It is based on them. What is the difference between shock and project or lightning and throw? They do the same damage, are impacted by mirrored talents, essentially have the same stats and work the same way...the difference is solely in APPEARANCE....that means their animation...and icon, tooltip, etc. So a proposal that is based on providing alternate animations is doing nothing MORE than EAWare already DID by mirroring skills. Its so obvious it is silly to have to state it, but apparently for you its necessary :p.

 

Yes, but you aren't suggesting that Sage don't have Project or TK throw. You suggesting alternate animations. There is NO justification for that in the movies. None. The closest power you see to that is the force push the Jedi use against droids.

 

Right, I am NOT suggesting that options be taken away from or denied to players. You are. You don't want them provided in the first place. The alternate animations I am suggesting are in the canon and/or movies and/or game already. You really cant remember the movies to well...again Yoda pushed palp, Obi used it several times, etc. And if you bother to watch them you will see that if junk is being thrown at someone, heavy odds are its a sith doing it...so basing a jedi class on junk and pebbles, and making them the hallmark skills, is completely inappropriate. So again, nonsense from you.

 

The new rejuvenation system is a different power with the same effect. It's a new power. What you're asking for is for Sages to be given two new powers that they put on their toolbars instead of Project or TK Throw. Which the devs then have to go back and change every power that interacts with those powers to ensure they work properly with the new powers. Yeah, that will happen. :rolleyes:

 

I'm not sure you understand the difference between power and animation. All they do is replace the existing class rejuvenation or mediation (or whatever that class calls it, it is meditation for consular) with another animation...but it DOES THE SAME THING as an out of combat health and power heal. So NO they are NOT new powers, simply alternate animations for the SAME THING. They come with a new icon. What I am proposing is the EXACT same thing. An alternate animation on top of an old power. Take two project icons and put them side by side on your toolbar. Now picture a project icon next to a force burst icon. SAME THING. They represent the same power, same cooldown, same stats. Just a different animation on top of it with a different slottable icon. They share the same cooldown, are impacted by the same talents, etc. Got it yet? Still waiting for you to catch up.

 

I don't care what you like. But I have every right to disagree with your idea. I don't want you idea to come into being. It's that simple. You may not understand why. I don't care. I'm expressing my preference that Bioware, read your idea and have a hearty 'lol' and get back to more productive work.

 

And, whether you agree or not, what you do in game does effect others. This isn't a single player game. If some folks are walking around with green lightning (talk about lore breaking) I have to see it. I'm sorry you don't like your Sage, but that's why there are different classes. I hate the Rocket Punch of Bounty Hunters and so I prefer to play Vanguards or Mercenaries (who don't depend on it).

 

If your idea is allowed, then the visual consistency of the game will fall apart . Because it is not just about Sages. If you get your way, then I want better, less silly Bounty Hunter animations. Then someone else will want to use lightning on their Operative. Choice is important, but it can go too far.

 

Yes I get it. Yes, you don't like it. Like I said, what you like and what I like doesn't matter, it just so happens that what I am proposing falls in line with canon, and is supported by the movies, whereas junk and pebbles aren't. But at the end of the day, EAWare has to make the call, and they will do that based on whether or not they will make money.

 

Yes, you don't want other players to be able to have a better or alternate jedi experience when they are willing to pay for it. Again, try the movie watching trick and see if you can figure out why junk and pebbles don't scream jedi, and particularly not light jedi for people...Or play the original kotors, or the original jedi knight series, or read a wiki, or do just about anything else that will help you understand the obvious, canon based problems people have with the status quo. Few things could be more productive than making jedi feel more like jedi and less like earth shaman rejects.

 

As far as lore and visual consistency...EJ is straight out of approved canon. IT IS THE LORE. And it would be quite distinctive. It isn't my personal favorite, but its an option, and I would buy it in a heartbeat to get away from junk and pebbles. So are the force push variants, which are my favorite, and ARE ALREADY IN THE GAME. No visual consistency problems there...nor is there with saber throw. No problems there. Seems your only problem is people wont be stuck with the junkyard jedi rocks junk and pebbles that many players loathe, which we have been stuck with since launch. BUT YOU can still use them.

 

If you would like an alternate animation, that meshes with the lore, as do my suggestions, then by all means propose it. Agents with lightning would be silly, they aren't force users. More nonsense from you. Cheers.

Edited by Dyvim
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i like the current animations but i wouldint mind the force burst one, but i dont like the electric judgement as much..just dosint seem like something a jedi would use.

 

Yeah, the force push based bursts are more to my liking, too. But EJ is canon, and was used by Luke Skywalker, among others....kind of interesting:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment

 

This thread is about viable, canon based alternates that were already in the game in some way, shape or form...so EJ is on that list.

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Oh, no, I get it. One loud, obnoxious, selfish vote against. Thanks for the bump. I wonder how many players feel like voting against things like more dev time on gsf stuff? You can't please everyone. In this case, however, you clearly have not read and cannot understand. So your posts, your motivations, and your unwillingness to allow logical player choice options for others speak for themselves.

 

Once you descend into personal attacks you show your own maturity and the weakness of your ideas better than anything I could say.

 

As for the "thanks for the bump" I've used that too to stifle those who disagree with me. It's a nice tactic. Personally, if they add this, I'll *shrug* and move on. I'm enjoying discussing this with you. There is no need to be nasty. ;)

 

EDIT: One other thing. You make the assumption that you are in the majority when you say "one, loud, selfish obnoxious" voice. Two things: 1) Who's loud? :D 2) I would think if there was this groundswell of support that your idea would have a few more people supporting. My guess is that most people don't care one way or the other. I don't care that much.

 

EVERY SINGLE suggestion in this thread is based on LORE

 

Based on EU lore that may not survive 2015, but yes.

 

...I provided the canon wiki post for EJ/Emerald Fire. They aren't my personal favorites, but they are viable choices. Saber throw...canon for consular (yoda) and in the game already. Force Push...as canon as it gets, and in the game already with multiple versions of force burst. So again you either haven't read, don't understand, or just want to make nonsensical statements.

 

Yoda's statement is nonsensical? OK, but I took a quote from the Empire Strikes Back from the most revered Jedi Master in all of Star Wars. Jedi shouldn't be using the Force to attack sentient life directly at all. But, this is a game and so they have to.

 

But something else we agree on. The game does have mirrors. It is based on them. What is the difference between shock and project or lightning and throw? They do the same damage, are impacted by mirrored talents, essentially have the same stats and work the same way...the difference is solely in APPEARANCE....that means their animation...and icon, tooltip, etc. So a proposal that is based on providing alternate animations is doing nothing MORE than EAWare already DID by mirroring skills. Its so obvious it is silly to have to state it, but apparently for you its necessary :p.

 

Again, you don't seem to understand. There is no class power in this game that allows the player to on the fly change the animation that plays when its used. The only one at all is "Kick the Huttball," I believe. The recover powers that you can buy or get in packs are separate powers. Thus, yes, they COULD create alternative projects and TK throw, but then the devs would have to go back and change all the powers and abilities that interact with them.

 

Shock and Project are mirrors, but they aren't the same power. They are similar powers that have equivalent effects.

 

Right, I am NOT suggesting that options be taken away from or denied to players. You are. You don't want them provided in the first place.

 

Correct. Not all options are good ones. This idea is in that 'not good' category. :p

 

The alternate animations I am suggesting are in the canon and/or movies and/or game already. You really cant remember the movies to well...again Yoda pushed palp, Obi used it several times, etc. And if you bother to watch them you will see that if junk is being thrown at someone, heavy odds are its a sith doing it...so basing a jedi class on junk and pebbles, and making them the hallmark skills, is completely inappropriate. So again, nonsense from you.

 

Somewhere along the way, you got the idea that I disagree that Sith are the ones who use telekinesis to throw things at people. I don't disagree with that. But what the movies support is no animation at all. Most of the "force push" abilities are invisible. I gather though that most folks wouldn't like all their powers to be like Weaken Mind and Sever Force.

 

Please note my argument in opposition isn't based on LORE. My only point in mentioning LORE at all was to show that really, the Jedi Sage shouldn't exist at all in the form it does if we're going by the movies. Thus, I don't think LORE is an argument in favor or against.

 

I'm not sure you understand the difference between power and animation. All they do is replace the existing class rejuvenation or mediation (or whatever that class calls it, it is meditation for consular) with another animation...but it DOES THE SAME THING as an out of combat health and power heal.

 

No, no, no. They are separate powers with the same effect. This is why they have their own activation. This is why some powers can be bugged while the class power still works. For example, recently the Kolto tank wasn't returning energy to Troopers. This did not affect Recharge and Reload at all.

 

There is exactly ONE power I am aware of that changes like this and that's "Kick the Huttball." But again, that power doesn't have the dozens of interactions that Project and TK throw do.

 

Got it yet? Still waiting for you to catch up.

 

It's sad that you're taking this so personally. Do you have so little conviction that you can't have someone disagree with you?

 

Yes I get it. Yes, you don't like it. Like I said, what you like and what I like doesn't matter, it just so happens that what I am proposing falls in line with canon, and is supported by the movies, whereas junk and pebbles aren't. But at the end of the day, EAWare has to make the call, and they will do that based on whether or not they will make money.

 

Of course. As I said, my only goal was to express my disagreement. Not sure why you're so upset.

 

If you would like an alternate animation, that meshes with the lore, as do my suggestions, then by all means propose it. Agents with lightning would be silly, they aren't force users. More nonsense from you. Cheers.

 

Agents can have Sith corruption, so can Troopers and Bounty Hunters and Smugglers. Personally, I think that's completely silly and should be removed. And my example, was just that an example of what someone could ask for. I think your idea is silly as would an Agent asking for lightning. For different reasons.

Edited by Master-Nala
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Its obvious you don't care that much, since you cant be troubled to make or support a lore based argument...in fact you acknowledge your position ISNT lore based. This isn't WoWcrap or some game where the ink isn't dry on the mythos...the lore and IP matter to some people a lot, and they care about the look and feel of jedi and sith in the game. Perhaps you can understand that...but no, its not hard refuting your points or defending my proposal from you, since you admit you are being emotional, not logical. You also admit you aren't basing your points in lore. Sooooo, what is left for you? Troll Olympics? There are two Force Bursts already in the game, with animations and icons. This proposal is doable.

 

I labeled you loud and obnoxious since you are trolling multiple threads, admit you don't care, and admit you are having fun doing it. You aren't being constructive or helpful. Just contrarian and illogical. Your solution to play sith is unreasonable. I've put a fair amount of time and effort to lay out this proposal and make it as reasonable as possible. Why should I be enthused when someone like you pops in to be contrary and "have fun" without contributing?

 

As far as being upset. No. Annoyed that you cant bring a better argument, state a solid position, or be a responsible forum poster with something constructive or something that advances the discussion? Yep. In other words, you are being rude. I don't like rude people. So I am done with you. You have nothing to offer anyway. Cheers.

 

I will leave you with one thing though, I wasn't disagreeing with Yoda's statement. We agree about force push, but the lore has expanded force push into a number of things, like Force Burst...so there are plenty of options other than rocks and junk, WHICH YOU AGREE aren't jedi hallmarks. Yet you are still ok with them...that is a very silly position for a game like this that lives and dies by its IP.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Telekinesis

At more powerful levels, Force Push was the ability to create a telekinetic impulse via the Force, launching a concussive burst of pressurized air-not unlike the blast of an archaic 'pipe bomb'-that would impact a target with enough force to knock it over, launch it into the air, or even (particularly in the case of fragile materials such as ceramics) shatter it into pieces. The greater the user's telekinetic aptitude, the larger the pressure differential, and thus the stronger the effect and the heavier the target. With practice, a skilled Force user could increase the range and arc of the blast without lowering the average kinetic energy, creating a blanketed wave instead of a focused impulse. Truly gifted practitioners could generate a concussive blast that would radiate from them for dozens of meters in all directions, detonating with the force of a conventional explosive...

Edited by Dyvim
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Its obvious you don't care that much, since you cant be troubled to make or support a lore based argument...in fact you acknowledge your position ISNT lore based.

 

Of course not. By the LORE, as I said, the animation should be invisible.

 

This isn't WoWcrap or some game where the ink isn't dry on the mythos...the lore and IP matter to some people a lot, and they care about the look and feel of jedi and sith in the game. Perhaps you can understand that...but no, its not hard refuting your points or defending my proposal from you, since you admit you are being emotional, not logical. You also admit you aren't basing your points in lore. Sooooo, what is left for you? Troll Olympics? There are two Force Bursts already in the game, with animations and icons. This proposal is doable.

 

Actually we are both being emotional not logical. You don't like the current animations. You clearly show a visceral reaction to them. You engage in multiple insults, ad hominem arguments, and well nastiness all because I expressed disagreement with your idea.

 

It's not trolling to disagree. As I have said, I bear no burden. YOU are asking for a change. I am not. The sensible thing would have been to simply acknowledge that reasonable (and emotional) people can have a difference of opinion and move on.

 

I labeled you loud and obnoxious since you are trolling multiple threads, admit you don't care, and admit you are having fun doing it. You aren't being constructive or helpful. Just contrarian and illogical. Your solution to play sith is unreasonable.

 

It's only two threads. You were the one cross-posting. :D And saying, that I don't agree with the idea isn't trolling. I am not trying to get a rise out of you or anyone else. And I didn't say I don't care, just that I don't care that much. I am also not being constructive because I disagree with the idea. I don't wish to improve the idea or make it workable, I simply don't want it to happen. There isn't anything else I could be. Contrarian, yes. Illogical, maybe. But I would offer that logically, logic isn't necessary when both of us are expressing a preference. We aren't arguing over the mechanics of the power or whether they make Consulars overpowered or underpowered. There logic should reign. Here we are discussing a visual change, art. And art neither requires or is particularly served by appeals to logic.

 

As far as being upset. No.

 

As a certain Sith Lord would say, "Your thoughts betray you." You are clearly upset. I can only assume that you are frustrated by my disagreement and experience it as an attack on you personally. It is not. I bear you no ill will or injury even though you have made this personal.

 

Annoyed that you cant bring a better argument, state a solid position, or be a responsible forum poster with something constructive or something that advances the discussion? Yep. In other words, you are being rude. I don't like rude people. So I am done with you. You have nothing to offer anyway. Cheers.

 

Interesting. I am being rude how? By expressing disagreement. That isn't a particularly logical argument. I mean seriously, think about it. By your standard of rude, no person is allowed to say anything against an idea.

 

I will leave you with one thing though, I wasn't disagreeing with Yoda's statement. We agree about force push, but the lore has expanded force push into a number of things, like Force Burst...so there are plenty of options other than rocks and junk, WHICH YOU AGREE aren't jedi hallmarks. Yet you are still ok with them...that is a very silly position for a game like this that lives and dies by its IP.

 

I like the rocks. Just like some folks like having Sith corruption on characters with no connection to the force. Yes, it is LORE breaking, but compared to some of the other silliness in game, it is minor.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Telekinesis

At more powerful levels, Force Push was the ability to create a telekinetic impulse via the Force, launching a concussive burst of pressurized air-not unlike the blast of an archaic 'pipe bomb'-that would impact a target with enough force to knock it over, launch it into the air, or even (particularly in the case of fragile materials such as ceramics) shatter it into pieces. The greater the user's telekinetic aptitude, the larger the pressure differential, and thus the stronger the effect and the heavier the target. With practice, a skilled Force user could increase the range and arc of the blast without lowering the average kinetic energy, creating a blanketed wave instead of a focused impulse. Truly gifted practitioners could generate a concussive blast that would radiate from them for dozens of meters in all directions, detonating with the force of a conventional explosive...

 

Please understand. I am not saying your are wrong that there are more appropriate ways to express these powers. Disturbance and Turbulence show that. But I don't agree with starting down the path of letting everyone change everything they don't like. It's nothing against you personally.

Edited by Master-Nala
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Of course not. By the LORE, as I said, the animation should be invisible.

 

Not really...if you go with the wiki's explanation of force pushes as increasingly powerful pressure differentials, akin to bomb blasts, those shock waves or pressure waves are not invisible in an atmosphere...watch an old tape of B-52s dropping bombs...you'll get the idea.

 

Actually we are both being emotional not logical. You don't like the current animations. You clearly show a visceral reaction to them. You engage in multiple insults, ad hominem arguments, and well nastiness all because I expressed disagreement with your idea.

 

Please, don't troll and then play the injured party. Its tiresome. Let's try this again, its not simply dislike. Let's put it this way...say you go out one morning and the sky is red, not blue. You could say I don't like it because its not right, not natural, and something may well be seriously wrong. That is not a simple "dislike" of red versus blue. It is a matter of dislike rooted in the wrong nature of the red sky. It is factually based. Same situation here. Jedi aren't junk throwers, it isn't there foundational, hallmark skill. To have it that way is wrong, it goes against the lore and the IP in a very fundamental way.

 

 

It's not trolling to disagree. As I have said, I bear no burden. YOU are asking for a change. I am not. The sensible thing would have been to simply acknowledge that reasonable (and emotional) people can have a difference of opinion and move on.

 

No, but to say "Not a productive use of development resources..." or "IMO, if you don't like the rocks, then just play a Sorcerer..." or "I can only add my voice to the naysayers inside Bioware who KNOW this is a waste of time. Don't like the rocks, play a Sorcerer..." or "I'm expressing my preference that Bioware, read your idea and have a hearty 'lol' and get back to more productive work." or "If your idea is allowed, then the visual consistency of the game will fall apart ." All those statements are either fabrications, hyperbole, or just wrong. You went past a simple disagree, and you did it with emotion, a lack or reasonableness, and desire to "have fun". So again, please don't play the injured party. Few things could be more productive in a star wars game than to make jedi feel and play more like jedi and not like sith. That is the basic of basics, and EAWare punted on it. Fact.

 

It's only two threads. You were the one cross-posting. :D And saying, that I don't agree with the idea isn't trolling. I am not trying to get a rise out of you or anyone else. And I didn't say I don't care, just that I don't care that much. I am also not being constructive because I disagree with the idea. I don't wish to improve the idea or make it workable, I simply don't want it to happen. There isn't anything else I could be. Contrarian, yes. Illogical, maybe. But I would offer that logically, logic isn't necessary when both of us are expressing a preference. We aren't arguing over the mechanics of the power or whether they make Consulars overpowered or underpowered. There logic should reign. Here we are discussing a visual change, art. And art neither requires or is particularly served by appeals to logic.

 

As a certain Sith Lord would say, "Your thoughts betray you." You are clearly upset. I can only assume that you are frustrated by my disagreement and experience it as an attack on you personally. It is not. I bear you no ill will or injury even though you have made this personal.

 

Interesting. I am being rude how? By expressing disagreement. That isn't a particularly logical argument. I mean seriously, think about it. By your standard of rude, no person is allowed to say anything against an idea.

 

That is one thread too many. Don't care versus don't care much? Splitting hairs a bit much, eh? Yes, the logic here is undeniable and inescapable...an IP based game should provide an experience consistent with the IP in look and feel. You have admitted that junk throwing doesn't do that. We all know that anyway, absent your admission. That is fact. It is illogical for them to produce jedi that are based on sith abilities, just as it is illogical to be ok with that and to resist a simple option to get away from that....you can't seem to grasp it isn't simply about preference....see the red sky example above if you are still confused.

 

 

I like the rocks. Just like some folks like having Sith corruption on characters with no connection to the force. Yes, it is LORE breaking, but compared to some of the other silliness in game, it is minor.

 

Having jedi based on sith abilities isn't minor. It is major, and it is unacceptable. On top of that, here is another set of facts -even if it was sith doing the junk throwing in this game, the game engine cant handle it. That's why they have to cheat with the animations by having magically conjured junk from a limited random table of junk. It is environmentally ignorant (rocks out of spaceship decks). And the pebbles are just ridiculous as an animation and as a jedi power. People don't like them. Even with the reduced playerbase of the game now, and the fact that most players don't come to the forums, many people in these thread have stated their preference for something else. You are the only one adamantly opposed.

 

Please understand. I am not saying your are wrong that there are more appropriate ways to express these powers. Disturbance and Turbulence show that. But I don't agree with starting down the path of letting everyone change everything they don't like. It's nothing against you personally.

 

No it isn't personal, but it would be nice if you were more considerate of the effort that has gone into this proposal and realized a few things in order to have an honest discussion. Again, its not about simple preference. Or like/dislike. I am not advocating change for change's or preference's sake. I am advocating change for a closer alignment to the IP and jedi lore, which many people are very fond of....and for EAWare to make some money from it. In no way, shape, or form does that open the floodgates for non-lore based change, or change for simple preference's sake...or for agents that want to shoot lightning...getting the look and feel of jedi right in a star wars game is a big deal. Its not a triviality in the context of the game.

Edited by Dyvim
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