Look, most of us still love this game.... But i trully do see an empire divided.... You have people who love the game and dont want one thing changed to the game be it positive or negative, then there are those of us who love the game but have become bored with the lack of content and things to do at level cap...

 

Those that want no changes get angry at the idea of any major changes, calling us whinny pvpers etc... But they are wrong, were not asking for major changes, not changes at all, we are simply asking to add things to the already existing game structure.... But some fear that it would ruin the core of the existing game, which makes no sense.... Like putting a cd player in a car would change how fast it went, or how many mpg it got... Its just ludicrous.

 

From what ive been told is this game does not belong to swg vets, pvpers, or sandbox lovers... We are a minority not deserving of playing this game... Whats odd is the pvers in this game troll, fight, insult and show pure hate to us, all the while we are making suggestions to better swtor... Can a developer make all happy? No! And will adding certain things be loved by the whole player base? No! But no one expects that, nor should they...

 

Ive seen all the threads of what alot of us want and the arguments against them... Most of the arguments against are ridiculous and backed only by ones own bias... Id like a civil discussion for/against things we all wish to have added, that we feel would better the game. Id really like bioware to add an in game poll/survey to go off of...

 

1. Adding owpvp of any kind.... The argument against is that it takes resources from the true focus of the game, pve content.... But thats not true sense there is a whole team dedicated to the pvp aspect of the game..

 

2. Player housing.... Argument against is itd litter the landscape and eventually turn into ghost towns... Dumbest thing i ever heard... I played swg for 8 years and while yes there were houses/cities everywhere, it wasnt a problem... What game is there that u run around in that there isnt anything there littering the landscape... As far as ghost towns, why would that matter? Its no different that most cities in swtor now...

 

3. In depth crafting and crafted item better than grinded items... Argument against is they dont want to make a bunch of money to spend it on repeat business... How stupid is this argument... U grind wz comms now, or pve crystals to get best gear from a vendor, no different than buying from a player, as well creds are practically worthless in swtor, so why not spend it

 

3. Jtl like space.... Havent really seen a argument against, other than no one wants this to be swg2, and stop trying to nge swtor, which has also been said for all the things above as well.

Look space needs something, astroids and galaga is better than this..

 

4.minigames like pazak, swoop racing etc.... All things that would add to this game, and have no clue why anyone who loves this game, whether pver or pvper would be against anything that could potentially make it better.

 

I know alot will say stop trying to make swtor into swg2, ir get over swg its a dead game that failed miserably... But thats just ignorance at its best... All any of us want is this game to succeed and we all have our ideas and id never knock any idea even if i didnt like it simply coz if it were ever implemented i just wouldnt play that aspect of the game... I just dont want to see this game die like swg, but i havent logged in in 3 weeks now coz having 3 lvl 50 2 of which are maxed out in fully augd wh gear and over valor rank 80, im bored plain and simple. And the things some of us worthless swg vets, whinny pvpers, and stupi sandbox lovers want are things that would keep us here playing and paying, which is the goal right?

 

So one thing that is desperately needed in this game right now that swg had and rift currently has, and it takes no dev resources away from the core game and its free is community... We are all on the same team, still hanging onto a game that isnt doing so hot... But this community is the absolute most negative hateful group ive ever been a part of... Dont say its the nature of the forums in mmos coz ive been playing mmos for over 10 years, and while yes they all have it, none to the degree swtor has.... With that said, im still here paying, but playing rift til swtor does something to save this game...

 

Very hard to type this on my phone while driving, so sorry about grammatical errors, i know the comma/spelling police will be out in force lol

because they secretly love wow

because they secretly love wow

 

Lmao best response ever

Open world PvP will devour some resources from other areas because to truly set it up they have to refine their engine. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done, but the people saying that it will take away from other things are correct. Fixing an innate flaw in the game engine will probably require a lot of people to do it, or a specialized team that works off to one side and doesn't help with much, if anything, else.

 

Otherwise sounds great. It also sounds suspiciously like suggestions that have been made and ignored since beta, sadly. I think the largest opponents of improving the game are EA/BW, which makes absolutely no sense, but they seem to be working really hard at maintaining their level denial regarding how much trouble the game is really in.

Edited September 6, 2012 by RobNightfall

Everyone has their own idea of what would make this the "best" MMO out here.

Everyone has their own idea of what would make this the "best" MMO out here.

 

Mine has something to do with Mass Effect and sitting on the Citadel in an Alliance uniform hanging with my fellow marines.

Look, most of us still love this game.... But i trully do see an empire divided.... You have people who love the game and dont want one thing changed to the game be it positive or negative, then there are those of us who love the game but have become bored with the lack of content and things to do at level cap...

 

Those that want no changes get angry at the idea of any major changes, calling us whinny pvpers etc... But they are wrong, were not asking for major changes, not changes at all, we are simply asking to add things to the already existing game structure.... But some fear that it would ruin the core of the existing game, which makes no sense.... Like putting a cd player in a car would change how fast it went, or how many mpg it got... Its just ludicrous.

 

From what ive been told is this game does not belong to swg vets, pvpers, or sandbox lovers... We are a minority not deserving of playing this game... Whats odd is the pvers in this game troll, fight, insult and show pure hate to us, all the while we are making suggestions to better swtor... Can a developer make all happy? No! And will adding certain things be loved by the whole player base? No! But no one expects that, nor should they...

 

Ive seen all the threads of what alot of us want and the arguments against them... Most of the arguments against are ridiculous and backed only by ones own bias... Id like a civil discussion for/against things we all wish to have added, that we feel would better the game. Id really like bioware to add an in game poll/survey to go off of...

 

1. Adding owpvp of any kind.... The argument against is that it takes resources from the true focus of the game, pve content.... But thats not true sense there is a whole team dedicated to the pvp aspect of the game..

 

2. Player housing.... Argument against is itd litter the landscape and eventually turn into ghost towns... Dumbest thing i ever heard... I played swg for 8 years and while yes there were houses/cities everywhere, it wasnt a problem... What game is there that u run around in that there isnt anything there littering the landscape... As far as ghost towns, why would that matter? Its no different that most cities in swtor now...

 

3. In depth crafting and crafted item better than grinded items... Argument against is they dont want to make a bunch of money to spend it on repeat business... How stupid is this argument... U grind wz comms now, or pve crystals to get best gear from a vendor, no different than buying from a player, as well creds are practically worthless in swtor, so why not spend it

 

3. Jtl like space.... Havent really seen a argument against, other than no one wants this to be swg2, and stop trying to nge swtor, which has also been said for all the things above as well.

Look space needs something, astroids and galaga is better than this..

 

4.minigames like pazak, swoop racing etc.... All things that would add to this game, and have no clue why anyone who loves this game, whether pver or pvper would be against anything that could potentially make it better.

 

I know alot will say stop trying to make swtor into swg2, ir get over swg its a dead game that failed miserably... But thats just ignorance at its best... All any of us want is this game to succeed and we all have our ideas and id never knock any idea even if i didnt like it simply coz if it were ever implemented i just wouldnt play that aspect of the game... I just dont want to see this game die like swg, but i havent logged in in 3 weeks now coz having 3 lvl 50 2 of which are maxed out in fully augd wh gear and over valor rank 80, im bored plain and simple. And the things some of us worthless swg vets, whinny pvpers, and stupi sandbox lovers want are things that would keep us here playing and paying, which is the goal right?

 

So one thing that is desperately needed in this game right now that swg had and rift currently has, and it takes no dev resources away from the core game and its free is community... We are all on the same team, still hanging onto a game that isnt doing so hot... But this community is the absolute most negative hateful group ive ever been a part of... Dont say its the nature of the forums in mmos coz ive been playing mmos for over 10 years, and while yes they all have it, none to the degree swtor has.... With that said, im still here paying, but playing rift til swtor does something to save this game...

 

Very hard to type this on my phone while driving, so sorry about grammatical errors, i know the comma/spelling police will be out in force lol

 

Just to clarify, SWG didn't really fail, the plug was pulled on it to make room for SWTOR since LA didn't want two Star Wars MMOs competing with each other. Ironically if you check out Projectswg, players/fans of SWG are busy working on resurrecting it by taking the original code and re-building the game and maybe in the future even adding to or expanding some of the popular aspects of it.

You have to admit that's a true testament to the game itself and to the loyal community it had/has....

Just to clarify, SWG didn't really fail, the plug was pulled on it to make room for SWTOR since LA didn't want two Star Wars MMOs competing with each other. Ironically if you check out Projectswg, players/fans of SWG are busy working on resurrecting it by taking the original code and re-building the game and maybe in the future even adding to or expanding some of the popular aspects of it.

You have to admit that's a true testament to the game itself and to the loyal community it had/has....

 

SOE can shut them down if they are so inclined though, right?

Just to clarify, SWG didn't really fail, the plug was pulled on it to make room for SWTOR since LA didn't want two Star Wars MMOs competing with each other. Ironically if you check out Projectswg, players/fans of SWG are busy working on resurrecting it by taking the original code and re-building the game and maybe in the future even adding to or expanding some of the popular aspects of it.

You have to admit that's a true testament to the game itself and to the loyal community it had/has....

 

While it was something in 2003, it closed with 50k or less subs in 2012. Projectswg is about 6 years or so in development and it still has a solid year ahead. It will have about 10k followers, IF it manages so many and that`s it.

 

But make no mistake.. SWG has failed since 2006.

A call for civil discussion followed by nothing but juvenile insults. Priceless.

There only seems to be 2 groups completely against it, Bioware and EA.

While it was something in 2003, it closed with 50k or less subs in 2012. Projectswg is about 6 years or so in development and it still has a solid year ahead. It will have about 10k followers, IF it manages so many and that`s it.

 

But make no mistake.. SWG has failed since 2006.

 

yuppers

 

Amazes me how certain fanbase now tries to rewrite history and claim SWG wasnt a failure!

 

The game was redesigned multiple times because it was a failure!

 

SOE didnt one day go "you know, we are making money hand over foot so lets do a dramatic game changing revamp and hope everyone stays"

 

They did those multiple revamps because the game was a failure!

 

As for OP, I stopped reading at housing when he talked about urban sprawl and claimed it didnt exist!

 

UO and SWG were TERRIBLE for the urban sprawl and frankly put, I will not support a game utilizing that housing style EVER again.

 

Now if EA wanted to put in EQ2 style housing, id be all for that and happy happy happy!

 

Lots of changes required in TOR but lets be up front and honest here, NONE of those changes should come from SWG failed design. Its a failure of a game who had its plug pulled because of lack of subscribers (not out of SOEs goodness and careing). Frankly im sure SOE would have pulled plug years earlier if not under contract with LA and forced to keep it running.

 

I hope EA does make the best game going and borrows from the games that deserve to be borrowed from

 

EQ

EQ2

DAoC

DDO

Rift

GW2

Heck even FFXI has some cool concepts!

 

Lets make a winner!

If they wanted to make it the best MMO out there they shouldn't have just copied WoW with SW elements on a bloatware of a engine, please don't argue it's the truth, and throw in interactive cutscenes. Maybe if they spent their budget developing a proper engine instead of just collecting VO audio files the game wouldn't be going f2p as people would want to pay for it.

I hope EA does make the best game going and borrows from the games that deserve to be borrowed from

 

EQ

EQ2

DAoC

DDO

Rift

GW2

Heck even FFXI has some cool concepts!

 

Lets make a winner!

 

copying from other mmo's has been pretty mich standard in this business from the start. and I have to agree with you, because this is one of the big problems swtor has. It blindly copied only from wow and no other mmo. I would also like to add Aion to that list, why ? Because of the huge skill bloat that swtor has and Aion's system with skill chains would be the cure.

Everyone has their own views and ideas on what is the best MMO and what features it would include, so no matter what there will always be arguements.

 

It basically comes down to what sort of gamer you are as to what features are most important to you, personally. From Bioware's point of view, the important features are a combination of what they want to achieve, combined with what they think their target market is.

 

 

Unfortunately for many of us on the forums, most developers have correctly identified the casual market as a relatively new, untapped market that will likely generate more money than the traditional gamer market. That is why more and more developers are making games aimed at casual gamers. Bioware has done the same. The casual gamer market, traditionally, cannot cope with complex ideas or large timesinks, its all about instant gratification and engaging mechanics. SW:TOR provides this by the bucketload which is why SW:TOR will be a massive success once it goes free-to-play, a pricing model which appeals to the casual crowd.

 

 

That, sadly, leaves us core gamers missing out on features that appeal to us. Core gamers have more time to spend in game than casuals. We have more dedication. We want something more involving. We can afford the time to learn complex game mechanics. Generally, this means a combination of sandbox features and traditional endgame themepark features.

 

 

Such an MMO does not currently exist in the AAA market, and is honestly unlikely to ever exist. The core gamer market for MMOs is not big enough to justify the sort of development budget needed to make an MMO that would please us. Its also a huge risk. Given the time and experience most core gamers have, any flaws in an MMO are quickly exposed and many core gamers simply leave to continue their quest for the perfect game. As the perfect game does not exist, we have to settle for second best and pray for improved features.

 

 

My only hope for the "perfect" core gamer AAA MMO is in a post-WoW era. Unfortunately, WoW has the unique combination of large endgame content and large community which together serve to attract and retain many core gamers. Once WoW ends, I firmly believe that the core gamer market will suddenly seem much larger, hopefully large enough to encourage the development of a AAA sandbox/themepark hybrid for the core gamers. By that point, the casual mmo market will also be saturated so there will be less desire to continue development for that market.

No one cares about core gamers because core gamers can't coherently be quantified. Casuals are easy, you can build certain types of content with no guesswork, and since they move through it slowly, you have plenty of time to add things. Core gamers include hyper-competitive types who like to speed through content, and the highest proportion of people who will call businesses on their BS and throw histronic rants over the decrease in drop rates of a hair ribbon.

why are so many against making swtor the best mmo out there?

 

 

There's an awful lot of people that seem to think the only way to "support" the game is to pretend that Bioware EA did everything right.......... and that nothing else that could be changed or included could ever improve that sacred vision.

 

It's totally bizarre, and hidieously detrimental to the game itself.

 

Although ironically most of the vocal ones on this forum have already quit the game themselves (which would be funny if it weren't so sad).

*Pazaak

I think the faction of players within swtor that want NO changes must be very small, or not even exist.

Personally I don't mind any changes that could come, I don't understand why people would hate updates that would make the game better :?

 

Especially player housing/customising Ships and Companion Romances added to your Legacy Family tree, those would win hands down.

Most of that many players are PVPtards and idiots that came here from another mmo that became "boring" to them. They care nothing for the story of a game and for the people who made this game, and they might also be graphics addicts (thinking its the most important feature -.-')

 

And since most likely they whined, raged, and made stupid threads of game x vs game y on the forums of those other mmos they do the same here, thats why!....

If we all have ships, why do we need housing?

Lmao best response ever

 

And they think Malgus will kill their Pandas sooner or later.

 

Truth is they are right.

WoW started with less to one million to 2 million in its first couple years in a less competitive environment to what SWTOR has.

 

If (and its a big IF bigger then the White House or Vatican)

BW/EA/LA and with the Star Wars IP can turn this around as a solid game I still imagine it to lead the MMO world.

 

My most concern is the lack of content update. We are three months late in content update, and the stuff of 1.3 should have been included every month since launch, not a whole patch for it. 1.4 is in facts 1.3 and that is three months late.

 

BW/EA is being downfall for what could possibly be the best MMO out there.

1. Adding owpvp of any kind.... The argument against is that it takes resources from the true focus of the game, pve content.... But thats not true sense there is a whole team dedicated to the pvp aspect of the game.. They would need to seriously upgrade the engine to handle any significant OWPvP. I'm not against it, I just don't think it will ever happen, or at least not anytime soon .

 

2. Player housing.... Argument against is itd litter the landscape and eventually turn into ghost towns... Dumbest thing i ever heard... I played swg for 8 years and while yes there were houses/cities everywhere, it wasnt a problem... What game is there that u run around in that there isnt anything there littering the landscape... As far as ghost towns, why would that matter? Its no different that most cities in swtor now...LOL you can't be serious. Not only did it look awful having dead cities littering the landscape, but peformance suffered, and it was always fun doing a terminal mission where a mob you needed to kill spawned inside a locked house. Give me DAoC style housing over SWG kthx. Besides...we already have our player housing with ships. Now we just need to be able to actually customize/decorate them.

 

3. In depth crafting and crafted item better than grinded items... Argument against is they dont want to make a bunch of money to spend it on repeat business... How stupid is this argument... U grind wz comms now, or pve crystals to get best gear from a vendor, no different than buying from a player, as well creds are practically worthless in swtor, so why not spend it I'd like SWG style crafting. Gathering? Not so much. I don't want harvesters owned by farmers and no-lifers littering the landscape cornering the market on top tier crafting materials.

 

3. Jtl like space.... Havent really seen a argument against, other than no one wants this to be swg2, and stop trying to nge swtor, which has also been said for all the things above as well.

Look space needs something, astroids and galaga is better than this..Agree space is epic fail in this game. Whatever happened to the "secret space project"? The secret is it doesn't exist or was ****canned.

 

4.minigames like pazak, swoop racing etc.... All things that would add to this game, and have no clue why anyone who loves this game, whether pver or pvper would be against anything that could potentially make it better.

TBH I can't think of anyone that was ever against this...certainly no more than 5% of the pop, and most of those probably thought those resources would have been better spent adding more actual content instead of "fluff".

 

Responses in lime

Edited September 6, 2012 by HarleysRule

I think there are two issues here

 

 

1 - People have lost faith in Bioware

2 - Bioware promised SO much but delivered SO little that now the customers are fighting with each other on feature requests because they know how slow Bioware works to add stuff. People want their stuff added first, so anything else is just 'crap' and a 'waste of time'.