I really wish i hadn't bought one off somebody for 2 million. I 'll NEVER earn that much back from this thing now that it's nerfed.

 

Well if you bought mine for 2m thank you!

I can't remember if I saw this post before or after starting this thread, the second half sort of answers the original intention.

 

Hey folks,

 

First, as Tait alluded to we will be having a maintenance tomorrow, on Wednesday the 21st. We didn't have our regular Tuesday maintenance due to the federal holiday here in the states. I wanted to let you know a few of the things coming in tomorrow’s patch:

• Item rarity borders will now show properly
  
• No more getting stuck in Blood Hunt if someone dies to Jos or Valk Beroya
  
• The Underlurker will no longer rush extremely quickly back to his target after leaping
  
• There have been adjustments made to the Contraband Slot Machine (more on this in a second)
  
• There is also one other fix, check the final patch notes for more info
  

Let’s talk about the changes coming to the Contraband Slot Machine. When we were going into 3.0.2, we wanted to make Grade 11 materials more accessible to more players than they were at the time. As you know, we simultaneously put in the Contraband Slot Machine, which afforded you a fairly good chance to get Jawa Junk and other Jawa vendor scrap parts. This had two effects:

• It had the risk of taking the Grade 11 material costs in the economy, in the long term, to a price below where we would like
  
• It created a situation where it could be more profitable to completely ignore crew skills by use of the Slot Machine
  

With those in mind, we decided to make the following changes, which will be live tomorrow:

• The drop rate on all Jawa scraps, has been greatly reduced
  
• The drop rate on Contraband Reputation items, has been increased
  
• To insure that the Slot Machine is still an awesome item to strive for, we have added a faction specific walker mount as a very rare drop
  
• Lastly, we have increased the cost of each Slot Machine coin from 500 to 750 credits. It was always our intent that the coin cost would increase over time as we add more Slot Machines that accept the coin
  

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

Wanted to make grade 11 materials more available.

I would also add:

Provide an additional credit sink.

Open up access to old Cartel Market Reputation vendors and their goods.

 

Having thought about the drop rates for a little bit now, work being dull and all I'm going to put my own suggestion here Cause you know I have the 'Special Snowflake' title and everything

 

Raise the cost of a slot machine chip to 1,000 credits.

 

Once you have reached maximum reputation with the Cartel group (Legendary) this effectively makes the Green rep token a small loss (500 credits) and the Blue rep token a reroll. Due to this and to keep the math as easy as possible I would remove the reward of returning a slot machine token.

 

Drop rates would then be as follows:

 

35% Loss

20% Green Reputation Token

10% Blue Reputation Token

04% Purple Reputation Token

20% Green Jawa Material Token

08% Blue Jawa Material Token

02% Purple Jawa Material Token

01% Cartel Certificate

 

For 100 chips (100,000 credit outlay) you could expect to see 30,000 credits worth of redeemable reputation tokens.

So for 70,000 credits and 5 minutes of time (optimum, 100 rolls with 3 sec cooldown) you would expect a return of:

20 Green Jawa Material tokens, 8 Blue Jawa Material Tokens, 2 Purple Jawa Material Tokens and 1 Cartel Certificate.

 

That looks like a return that doesn't unbalance running crew missions (which can still be run alongside using the slot machine) while still retaining some attraction of using the slot machine in the first place.

 

On further consideration, and bearing in mind the main downfall of the Slot machine is its potential for unlimited usage I would look to introduce a legacy wide debuff to prevent excessive use. Activity limiters are already in the game with Dailies, Weeklies, OPs lockouts and the limits on coms that can be stored/ earned in a week.

 

ps. I know I didn't factor in the rare mount, at its current drop rate and rumoured effectiveness I wouldn't want one. I would possibly make it an additional chance on a normal Cartel Certificate win.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Vhaegrant

Taking your numbers. player running 3 or 4 machines at a time wil generate 8 junk in 5 minutes. that equals for example 2 adpativ circuit.

 

To get a crit with crew mission on average it takes you 150 minutes and that will give you 2 or 3.

 

Even your 15 minutes with 1 machine to get 6 jawa scraps are far better then crew missions.

 

2 jawa scraps per hour will be on par with crew missions.

 

The machine should not be balanced with crafting items, but other stuff.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Neglience

Well if you bought mine for 2m thank you!

 

LOL.

 

I picked up one for 1M credits yesterday and struck it in my cargo hold. I have no intention to ever use the thing (sitting in a stronghold and clicking slots strikes me as mind numbing to the max) but you never know, changes can be changed.

 

As a evil money grubbing crafter all that I can say is that I made more credits (w/o a slot machine) after they were introduced than I did before. I actually have more than enough credits to last a lifetime of play, but started bringing in more just because it was so easy after the slots.

Hey, people liked the slot machines from the NarShadaa event, right?

 

The what?

 

The NarShadaa Event. You don't remember?

 

No, I have no idea what your talking about.

 

Oh hell, we can't use those things, it will ruin the chance to have it as an event.

 

No, I don't mean the actual machine. How about a machine that drops the things that come in the pack that contains it?

Then why buy the pack?

 

Oh....yea. Didn't think of that.

 

...Hey, what if it dropped the extra stuff?

 

...What extra stuff?

 

...You know, the certificates, the scrap, the rep items....the stuff.

 

....They do that?

 

I am going to go find a pot of coffee and drown myself......

 

 

 

Yea. That is how bad I think it is around the table.

Edited January 22, 2015 by LordArtemis

Good luck.

 

I like you are very angry. Not that it was changed its WHY it was changed and to the extent it was changed, having said that I was happy with how it was to begin with.

 

Really though read the terms and condition you agreed to when you started playing be that as a sub or F2P. they have not violated those terms. Anything is subject to change without any prior notice. That's standard policy for any term and conditions for mmo;s

Not saying that fair, right or wrong. Just saying. So please try to get your refund by all means. and as said good luck and that's said with no sarcasm at all.

Come on, stop blaming crafters for Bioware's actions. Nobody asked to nerf the return on anything other than the artifact jawa tokens, yet they also nerfed everything else. Edited January 22, 2015 by Loc_n_lol

Hang on, rethink this a little. Is it perhaps too many blue and green for each purple if you are trying to avoid gluts like the one that exists for blue mats now and avoid making in-the-field gathering irrelevant?

 

How about 10g:3b:2p instead?

 

I don't think so.

 

Green Materials can be obtained from Crew missions, Harvesting nodes and in the case of Bioanalysis/Scavenging killing higher level mobs. Given the raised return from the Grade 11 Nodes and dead Mobs you can get a lot of greens very quickly if you just go into the game and kill/ scan nodes on Rishi. As well as raking in the credits from normal mob drops and the potential to grab chests if you see them on a circuit. This is playing the game and having a bit of fun watching the animations.

 

Blue materials can be obtained from Crew Missions but not from the environment. There is a glut of them as they are a byproduct of running so many crew missions to get at the desired purples (a crit on the crew mission that normally gives blues). The glut on blue materials already exists and in most cases the Grade 11 blues are not trading for much more than their vendor value. The point of having them in the 10:4:1 ratio isn't to effect their availability on the GTN, which is already saturated, but to provide the illusion of a better win on the Slot Machine.

 

Remember when you are running the slot machines you are not doing anything else, aside from maybe sending out companions.

 

On further thought I would also get rid of the respin reward, you know when you get your chip back, and raise the price of chips to 1,000 credits each.

 

My odds would go something like:

35% Loss

20% Green Reputation

10% Blue Reputation

04% Purple Reputation

20% Green Jawa Token

08% Blue Jawa Token

02% Purple Jawa Token

01% Cartel Certificate

 

So for 100 chips (100,000 credits) and 5 minutes (optimal 100 clicks with 3 sec cooldown), you would effectively pay 70,000 credits for 20 Green, 8 Blue, 2 Purple and 1 Cartel Certificate.

 

Now, I'm going more on 'Feel' than pure statistical analysis but that feels to me a fairer return on credit and time investment, without completely overturning the economy.

 

Of course it doesn't address those that either have the time and desire to just sit and click the slot machine over and over again or set up macros. If they are the reason we can't have the slot machine as a moderately desirable item then maybe restrictions on chip purchase could be introduced, say 500 chips per day, or whatever is deemed reasonable.

So, people like the OP just want to sit at their computer and keep clicking a RNG all evening just to gain crap to sell on the GTN to get millions in fake money to do what? To buy stuff like armor and mounts? Why? You're not even playing the game, just sitting and clicking a silly slot machine...I don't get it. Entitlement? Being the "rich" guy in fantasy land? Makes no sense to me.

I'm a crafter and liked the machines the way they were. What now?

Taking your numbers. player running 3 or 4 machines at a time wil generate 8 junk in 5 minutes. that equals for example 2 adpativ circuit.

 

To get a crit with crew mission on average it takes you 150 minutes and that will give you 2 or 3.

 

Even your 15 minutes with 1 machine to get 6 jawa scraps are far better then crew missions.

 

2 jawa scraps per hour will be on par with crew missions.

 

The machine should not be balanced with crafting items, but other stuff.

 

See these are the sort of players that destroy any inclusion of fun items for others :/

 

There is the issue that the use of the slot machine is an exclusive activity. While crew missions run in the background and you can get on with other stuff, like running Flashpoints to get the rare material drops.

 

It's a shame players can run multiple machines to bypass the cooldown period. I would put the cooldown on the player rather than the machine to limit this abuse.

 

Further to this, those that have the time themselves to sit there clicking or the tech to put up a macro to do it for them (most MMO compatible keyboards and mice have software for this :/ ) I would consider placing a restriction on the number of chips that can be used in a 24 hour period. A character/ account wide debuff along the lines of 'Slot machine burnout'.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Vhaegrant

I'm a crafter and liked the machines the way they were. What now?

 

It was nice. The return rate on purple mats from companion missions is dismal. Maybe 2 purples out of 20 missions. Eventually one can't afford to craft anything.

Hey, people liked the slot machines from the NarShadaa event, right?

 

The what?

 

The NarShadaa Event. You don't remember?

 

No, I have no idea what your talking about.

 

Oh hell, we can't use those things, it will ruin the chance to have it as an event.

 

No, I don't mean the actual machine. How about a machine that drops the things that come in the pack that contains it?

Then why buy the pack?

 

Oh....yea. Didn't think of that.

 

...Hey, what if it dropped the extra stuff?

 

...What extra stuff?

 

...You know, the certificates, the scrap, the rep items....the stuff.

 

....They do that?

 

I am going to go find a pot of coffee and drown myself......

 

 

 

Yea. That is how bad I think it is around the table.

 

I don't think it's quite that bad.

But I do think that developers (and this is across all games not just SWTOR) consistently show an inability to recognise there is a sizable player base that will spend vast amounts of their time doing dull and repetitive actions if they feel it gives them an advantage.

 

I would take the step of introducing 'Time Limits' on these sort of activities.

 

They already exist with Dailies, Weeklies, OP lockout and the ability to only store a limited amount of coms. Why not place in a legacy wide debuff that prevents the abuse of an item.

Although i agree with them adjusting the drop rate on the Jawa junk it just seems pointless to own the machine now. all i'm getting back if Reputation items which i then sell back for less than the money i spend on the coins in the first place.

 

I was happy to see the change to Jawa Junk, they dropped way too often. but the green/blue versions were never a problem so i'm not sure why there % to drop was also changed. To keep these fun machines used then some new items really need to be added because right now it's pretty pointless to own one.

funny thing is i believe it's not the crafters that were upset about the Junk Drops (i craft on most of my characters in every profession), it was the people that only gather and sell on the GTN that had the problem, the junk just made things easier for crafters to kit out their alts and guildies without having to rely on the Gatherers selling on the GTN... and yes the drop rates were too high but they didn't need to lower them to -0%, that's just too far, make it fair but not super-easy or useless... there's always a middle ground somewhere... Edited January 22, 2015 by Elly_Dawn

Hey, people liked the slot machines from the NarShadaa event, right?

 

The what?

 

The NarShadaa Event. You don't remember?

 

No, I have no idea what your talking about.

 

Oh hell, we can't use those things, it will ruin the chance to have it as an event.

 

No, I don't mean the actual machine. How about a machine that drops the things that come in the pack that contains it?

Then why buy the pack?

 

Oh....yea. Didn't think of that.

 

...Hey, what if it dropped the extra stuff?

 

...What extra stuff?

 

...You know, the certificates, the scrap, the rep items....the stuff.

 

....They do that?

 

I am going to go find a pot of coffee and drown myself......

 

 

 

Yea. That is how bad I think it is around the table.

 

Shena.....AH never mind you know exactly what you are doing...c'mon Art you are better than this.

Slot machine bypassed craftesr? How in the world do you get there? You had to be a crafter to make the most use out of the mats... if anything it helped crafters. Materials were available at a a lesser rate... cost to craft dropped.

 

Now, RESOURCE sellers... that rely mainly on Crafters to earn their credits... yes... they got hit hard. But they are NOT crafters... they are suppliers to the crafters.

 

For those who think that Crafters have been gouging the players for years... I suggest you level a crafter, or several for that matter in the different diciplines... learn all the schematics, upgrade those schematics (to be able to craft the item everyone wants), and earn/buy the mats required to actually craft the item. Oh don't forget about the companions... you better start working on that max affection... takes a while, and there is only so much story... so be ready to start forking over creds for gifts. Dont forget you need to gear yourself... some cschematics can only be obtained from loot drops from ops... really good stuff will be in the HM versions... oh and re-engineering... You might want to start praying to the RE-Gods that they bless you with a lucky streek on RE'ing that Hilt you got... otherwise you are starting over. After you have done all that, please come back and share your experience... and let us know what you think your time and effort are worth.

 

If you are paying a crafter for something, you are paying not only for their cost for the item... but the time they invested in honing that crafting skill... and you are paying for the convenience of not having to do it yourself.

 

I don't even believe the Resource Gatherers are responsible... with any supply chain, people want to make a profit... they have to have a reason to farm mats, run endless crew missions and etc.

 

Then take into account that people actually (gasp) want the item that was crafted... want it enough to pay for it. You say the crafters have gouged you? Then craft it yourself... come back and tell us how much you spent to learn to craft that 192 Hilt... vs what it is selling for on the GTN.

 

Are you willing to invest the time to craft it yourself? Then welcome to Crafting... there are many guides on how to level your skills, which companions to use for optimal crit rate (dont forget to make sure they are all at max affection!). Best of luck! Otherwise... if its too expensive... don't buy it... Wait for the price to drop... if it doesn't... then others value the item more than you do.

 

Edit: Please note, that I do believe there are some who take advantage of the market... and their game is about making as many credits as possible... but thats SOME... not all...

Edited January 22, 2015 by Drockter

the crit rate on the level 11 purple crafting materials is so poor that:

 

1. many crafters who have the skill cannot afford to reliably use the skills they have

2. when these materials make it to the GTN, they are bought up by the Market Money Makers who are controlling the price materials, under cutting and raising when necessary to make sure they maintain a healthy profit.

 

if the end game is tuned expecting players to have full augs and mods, then they need to do something to make the components more accessible to everyone. right now they are not. the flow to market is being controlled by a few people on each server.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Bruceme

the crit rate on the level 11 purple crafting materials is so poor that:

 

1. many crafters who have the skill cannot afford to reliably use the skills they have

2. when these materials make it to the GTN, they are bought up by the Market Money Makers who are controlling the price materials, under cutting and raising when necessary to make sure they maintain a healthy profit.

 

if the end game is tuned expecting players to have fulls augs and mods, then they need to do something to make the components more accessible to everyone. right now they are not. the flow to market is being controlled by a few people on each server.

 

I definitely think the standing crit rate has a lot to answer for.

It restricted any thoughts I had of crafting items while levelling, it just wasn't worth the effort, by the time I had enough purple mats I was through the level band and on to the next gear. Although this consideration was blown out of the water when you had access to the mods from the planetary vendors and easier access to orange gear.

I'm still surprised BW hasn't offered a conversion option for mats. X# of greens for X#blues, X# blues for X# purples. Along with a readjustment of the drop rate to bring this more in line with what they intended from the start. Crafting is a waste of time and money at the current returns. This would provide a nice way to rid our inventory of the abundance of mats gained from trying to get the items you want.

the crit rate on the level 11 purple crafting materials is so poor that:

 

1. many crafters who have the skill cannot afford to reliably use the skills they have

2. when these materials make it to the GTN, they are bought up by the Market Money Makers who are controlling the price materials, under cutting and raising when necessary to make sure they maintain a healthy profit.

 

if the end game is tuned expecting players to have full augs and mods, then they need to do something to make the components more accessible to everyone. right now they are not. the flow to market is being controlled by a few people on each server.

 

Crafter can get their own mats with crew missions, they do not need to buy any stuff out of the GTN. At least i am doing it that way.

No, but you woulden't mind if they did, before the change Grade 11 Purple had gone from 50K to much yes, down to below 10K.

 

Remove Jawa, add something else and change Cartel Certs back.

 

High end should be "rare" or they can give away 198 Items in the Slot machince too

 

If the slot machine destroyed crafting and the economy, then why did the price of everything rebound back to pre-slot machine levels yesterday? Sure all those jawa junk haven't gone through the system in 1 hour after the patch?

 

Maybe they dropped to 10k, but they are right back up to 50k today and yesterday.

Resource sellers aren't evil, nor are they gouging.

 

They've taken the time to level a gathering mission skill and then sent companions out on endless missions to gather a few artifact mats.

 

Considering that you only get artifact mats from criticals on Wealthy (from slicing mission criticals, by the way, cost almost 6k to send a comp out on and take 3+ hours to complete), Rich and Bountiful and you only get those 21 to 25% of the time depending on the companion...

 

They have a lot of time and money invested in gathering those mats, to expect them to be cheap is ludicrous.

 

And the people who were doing that and earning credits to do it, allowing crafters to buy the mats they otherwise might not be able to get due to poor luck, got absolutely shafted the moment that slot machine hit.

 

The people whining about "being gouged" have absolutely no clue the amount of time and credits it takes to get those mats. Instead of crying about the slot machine, how about raising hell about the drop rates or amounts of each drop you get with the gathering missions? That at least keeps the Cartel Market from further interfering with game play mechanics.

If the slot machine destroyed crafting and the economy, then why did the price of everything rebound back to pre-slot machine levels yesterday? Sure all those jawa junk haven't gone through the system in 1 hour after the patch?

 

Maybe they dropped to 10k, but they are right back up to 50k today and yesterday.

 

The same reason gasoline prices take forever to drop when oil prices drop but bounce right back up the moment oil prices rise.

 

Speculators bought up massive amounts of cheap artifact mats knowing they'd never be that low again, and now get the prices they should be at because the supply has been decreased.