Lowbie WZs.

 

Play your cards right and you might have almost a full set of 55 PvP gear as well.

 

Hmm. I see this discussion is going nowhere because you CLEARLY don't understand the issue.

 

The only solution is to group up with players who have done the same that you have. The problem with this is that now you've become the bullies.

 

Again, perpetuation.

Hmm. I see this discussion is going nowhere because you CLEARLY don't understand the issue.

 

The only solution is to group up with players who have done the same that you have. The problem with this is that now you've become the bullies.

 

Again, perpetuation.

 

making a team in a team game...that would be like...gearing in a gear based game.

Hmm. I see this discussion is going nowhere because you CLEARLY don't understand the issue.

 

The only solution is to group up with players who have done the same that you have. The problem with this is that now you've become the bullies.

 

Again, perpetuation.

 

it sounds like you have a problem with the fundamental concept of organized PvP in an MMO.

it sounds like you have a problem with the fundamental concept of organized PvP in an MMO.

 

No.. I have no problems with organized PvP.

 

I have an issue when organized PvP spills over into casual PvP.

 

And don't make this about me. I'm by no means a casual player, but what's being done is wrong in every sense imaginable.

 

Sarcasm has a place, but it's place is not here.

No.. I have no problems with organized PvP.

 

I have an issue when organized PvP spills over into casual PvP.

 

And don't make this about me. I'm by no means a casual player, but what's being done is wrong in every sense imaginable.

 

Sarcasm has a place, but it's place is not here.

 

i *am* a casual player. i think casual and hardcore arent good defining terms anymore; competitive and non-competitive would be better imo.

 

im all for making a non-competitive bracket. but reduce the rewards/remove rewards entirely. (that whole risk/reward thing). i honestly cant see many people going for that tho.

 

the problem is, based on what ive seen/heard, is that the non-competitive players are also the ones that most want the rewards from PvP in order to get better/newer gear. which raises the question in my mind, why do you need those rewards if you dont want to compete on a higher level? (assuming that there WAS a non-competitive bracket).

 

especially now w/ bolster, where you can just get crafted gear and be very well off from a stat standpoint.

 

for those that arent interested in playing in a competitive environment, i think that would be the ideal situation.

BW should make separate games for solo and team players, isn't that obvious? Or they should make team-only PVP, so ppl have to find someone to queue with or just quit this game, cuz it kills all fun in PVP for them. But at least this will be fair.

Premades (competitive, you know) are taking the SAME ACTIONS, but not being policed or held in check at all. It needs to stop, and to argue against that stance puts you on a moral level with them.

 

Stop arguing semantically, dissecting every half-sentence and extracting what you wish from it. Take the idea as a whole, and you might make some headway into understanding why they are exactly the same.

 

No, you can't be a "real bully" in a video game. You can, however, exhibit the same patterns of behavior that bullies do.

 

That's enough for most to draw the parallel.

 

No, it really isn't and I'm kind of shocked. Here's some problems (and once again, I object to such highly inflammatory examples) between the two:

 

Bullying is doing something wrong.

 

Playing something well is doing something right.

 

Simple as that. Just because 80% (random number) of the population does some less well doesn't make 4-man teams "stroking their ego." They came to play, have no where else to play, and more importantly have every right to play just like everyone else.

 

A bully -never- has a right to do what they do. Not really sure what's gotten into you, but hopefully this is the last I'll have to speak about this issue. Comparing competitive premades in general to bullies is just disrespectful.

 

don't get me wrong, I"m not accusing all premades of this nor all skilled premades. however, I've been in numerous WZs in which premades run by the same two/three guilds absolutely dominate and then taunt the other team by refraining from capping doors or scoring a 6th goal. they do it to frustrate, humiliate/degrade their opponents and to waste everyone else's time. they get off on it. it's the definition of bullying.

 

Though again, an adult is/should be mentally capable of defending themselves (mentally, physically, emotionally) or retreating to a safe place in such situation, yes I do recognize some 4-mans act inappropriately. These, like the super queue/exploiters, should be reported on the merits (or lack there of) of their actions. Maverick did not distinguish though between a poorly behaved 4-man and a simply competitive one, and to claim that a team that beats you so soundly because they can is some how bullying is disrespectful.

 

Even ill behaved teams aren't however "cyber-bullying" as their "victims" do have the means and tools to defend themselves or walk away, and should have the maturity to do just that. Cyber-bullying is the use of Facebook, twitter, and other social media to attack/hurt a child. Once again even if there is a way to escape or defend, the child lacks the wisdom or maturity to do so, and the effects on a developing child are damning.

 

I do not condone people who taunt others and/or "refuse to end it" but these are no where near the level of abuse and physical violence as "bullies" and the "victims" are much more capable of protecting themselves than real victims. To draw the parallel shows a lack of respect for the victims of bullying and a clear misunderstanding of an issue that claims thousands of lives.

 

It's not right, it's inflammatory, and it honestly shows a lack of empathy.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Doomsdaycomes

No, it really isn't and I'm kind of shocked. Here's some problems (and once again, I object to such highly inflammatory examples) between the two:

 

Bullying is doing something wrong.

 

Playing something well is doing something right.

 

Simple as that. Just because 80% (random number) of the population does some less well doesn't make 4-man teams "stroking their ego." They came to play, have no where else to play, and more importantly have every right to play just like everyone else.

 

A bully -never- has a right to do what they do. Not really sure what's gotten into you, but hopefully this is the last I'll have to speak about this issue. Comparing competitive premades in general to bullies is just disrespectful.

 

 

 

Though again, an adult is/should be mentally capable of defending themselves (mentally, physically, emotionally) or retreating to a safe place in such situation, yes I do recognize some 4-mans act inappropriately. These, like the super queue/exploiters, should be reported on the merits (or lack there of) of their actions. Maverick did not distinguish though between a poorly behaved 4-man and a simply competitive one, and to claim that a team that beats you so soundly because they can is some how bullying is disrespectful.

 

Even ill behaved teams aren't however "cyber-bullying" as their "victims" do have the means and tools to defend themselves or walk away, and should have the maturity to do just that. Cyber-bullying is the use of Facebook, twitter, and other social media to attack/hurt a child. Once again even if there is a way to escape or defend, the child lacks the wisdom or maturity to do so, and the effects on a developing child are damning.

 

I do not condone people who taunt others and/or "refuse to end it" but these are no where near the level of abuse and physical violence as "bullies" and the "victims" are much more capable of protecting themselves than real victims. To draw the parallel shows a lack of respect for the victims of bullying and a clear misunderstanding of an issue that claims thousands of lives.

 

It's not right, it's inflammatory, and it honestly shows a lack of empathy.

 

If you would like to debate the definition of bullying, we can do that.

If you would like to challenge the notion that this is bullying, I suggest you read any psychology texts you can get your hands on. You will lose this.

 

You define it very strictly, but the fact is that it is subjective at worst.

 

If a person feels intimidated, and that intimidation was done intentionally, what else would you define it as? Bullying sounds right to me.

"Bullying is the use of force or coercion to abuse or intimidate others. The behavior can be habitual and involve an imbalance of social or physical power, real or perceived."

 

To define what this is in more detail..

"Rankism is abusive, discriminatory, or exploitative behavior towards people because of their rank in a particular hierarchy"

Hmm..

 

I'm sure I posted earlier a thread from the Pot5 forums, in which a ranked team member explicitly said noone cares about regs so he abuses the hell out of the exploits.

 

There is a "code of conduct", if you will, in Ranked PvP on Pot5. Essentially they won't use any exploits/bugs/hacks or the like in Ranked, but regs are free game. Since the defined structure of PvP is Ranked >Regs, this is the textbook definition.

 

Please don't try to turn this back into the plight of the schoolkid. It's not disrespectful, it's reality.

 

(competitive) Premades have intimidated the general PvP population so much that they either quit the match, sit on a node, or quit the game.

 

and I requote

 

Even ill behaved teams aren't however "cyber-bullying" as their "victims" do have the means and tools to defend themselves or walk away, and should have the maturity to do just that.

 

"Screw this. I'm not going to play with these guys."

 

See how that's bad for pvp? I do.

If you would like to debate the definition of bullying, we can do that.

If you would like to challenge the notion that this is bullying, I suggest you read any psychology texts you can get your hands on. You will lose this.

 

I respect you and your previous posts too much to get into this. I will simply say this fake victimhood needs to stop, it demonstrates an uncharacteristic lack of maturity.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Doomsdaycomes

Give them the damn solo que already. I mean place them in a warzone where they are completly ALONE, no teammates and no enemies and then they can be best being 50k damage horrorshows and have a 100% win ratio. This thread is a joke being kept up by 3-4 people who instead of actually going into pvp and learning their class go and moan here all day and then wnder why they loose. Well you loose because youre team is down to 7 because you are nothing but a burden. Edited July 21, 2013 by SajPl

so, because i got good gear, teammates and skills in order to win a game, im somehow a bully?

 

The point of a wz is to win, and because i have gotten good at it, I'm now a bad person. Maybe next wz, ill afk and let the pugs win. That will make up for my horrible crime of improving myself, right?

Give them the damn solo que already. I mean place tcem in a warzone where they are completly ALONE, no teammates and no enemies and then they can be best being 50k damage horrorshows and have a 100% win ratio. This thread is a joke being kept up by 3-4 people who instead of actually going into pvp and learning their class go and moan here all day and then wnder why they loose. Well you loose because youre team is down to 7 because you are nothing but a burden.

 

I assure you, sir/ma'am.. I know full well how to play my class (all 3 trees) and I'm quite adept at it. Your assumptions are incorrect, so you would look less like a fool if you left them at home.

 

It's not about solo-queues or matchmaking or anything of the sort. The general issue is that noone is here to police PvP, and when noone is around to bring down the hammer.. things get a bit out of control (in-game as well as in life).

 

I premade as much as I solo queue.. and I can tell you that I stand to have a significant change to my pvp experience if queues are split. I'm okay with that.

 

I also stand to have a significant change to my PvP experience is matchmaking is implemented. I'm okay with that too, though I think that matchmaking needs something else to lean on and many things would have to be changed for it (limits on the # of one AC in a wz, proper composition, removal of field respec.. etc.)

 

 

Doom..

 

No offense intended, and if you were personally a victim of bullying, or someone you are close to was a victim I am truly sorry.

so, because i got good gear, teammates and skills in order to win a game, im somehow a bully?

 

The point of a wz is to win, and because i have gotten good at it, I'm now a bad person. Maybe next wz, ill afk and let the pugs win. That will make up for my horrible crime of improving myself, right?

 

No, being good doesn't make you a bully..

 

Grouping up with the mentality of "GUNNAFACEROLLZMESUMPUGSCUZTHEYSUKZ", when your skill level dictates that you should seek higher level competition... that's a little bit over the top. It has been outlined here how many premades behave in a manner which is neither socially acceptable or condonable, so I will not list them for you.

 

It's unfortunate that you can't step outside your box and get off your white horse for a moment, though.

Hmm. I see this discussion is going nowhere because you CLEARLY don't understand the issue.

 

The only solution is to group up with players who have done the same that you have. The problem with this is that now you've become the bullies.

 

Again, perpetuation.

 

No, I understand what you are saying, I just don't believe it is an issue for the community as a whole.

 

If BW went to split queues it would barely effect me since I solo queue most of the time. All it would do is guarantee that I would no longer face premades, which I have no problem with facing now, and guarantee that more of my opponents would probably be lesser geared than I would be.

 

Also don't think that premades are the only source of "bullying" in PvP. I've seen more full PuGs belittle and talk down to their opponents than I have seen premades do it.

 

Also don't think that premades are the only source of "bullying" in PvP. I've seen more full PuGs belittle and talk down to their opponents than I have seen premades do it.

 

On that you are correct, but that's about where the "bullying" ends for them.

 

I outlined before how this is Rankism and how that is explicitly tied to bullying.

 

Again I say.. Occam's Razor.

 

It's a principle of problem-solving.

 

Our problem currently is players don't want to play against groups, for whatever reason.

 

Occam's razor says that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected. In other words, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

 

This also applies to solutions.

 

The simplest solution is solo toggles.

 

 

 

Matchmaking may be better overall, but it may be out of the scope of Bioware's ability (for whatever reason). I'd much rather have solo-only over the current state of PvP.

On that you are correct, but that's about where the "bullying" ends for them.

 

I outlined before how this is Rankism and how that is explicitly tied to bullying.

 

Again I say.. Occam's Razor.

 

It's a principle of problem-solving.

 

Our problem currently is players don't want to play against groups, for whatever reason.

 

Occam's razor says that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected. In other words, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

 

This also applies to solutions.

 

The simplest solution is solo toggles.

 

 

 

Matchmaking may be better overall, but it may be out of the scope of Bioware's ability (for whatever reason). I'd much rather have solo-only over the current state of PvP.

 

Unfortunately, that rankism would not disappear with solo queues. You will still have higher geared and skilled individuals going against those that are fresh to the PvP scene. The only way to lessen it would be the match making where you would be facing players of relatively equal skill to your own.

 

If skill and gear were all equal then the solo queue might work. But since there are very large differences in skill, gear, and experience it isn't. You will still have players in full min/maxed gear going against fresh 55s and nothing really has changed.

 

The current state works fine if players are willing to take responsibility for how they play.

 

I was in a WZ today where one of my team mates was complaining about a premade being on the other team, which there was, and how it was unfair that he was dying so fast and not doing any damage. However, his argument totally discounted the fact that he was PvPing in a mix of pre 55 blues and greens that were then also a mix of Aim, Cunning, Strength, and Will power items. (He was a sentinel)

 

So, now, was it the premade's fault that he did not enjoy the WZ or was it his own?

 

If that player had taken the time to learn his class while leveling he might not have had such a terrible time PvPing.

No, being good doesn't make you a bully..

 

Grouping up with the mentality of "GUNNAFACEROLLZMESUMPUGSCUZTHEYSUKZ", when your skill level dictates that you should seek higher level competition... that's a little bit over the top. It has been outlined here how many premades behave in a manner which is neither socially acceptable or condonable, so I will not list them for you.

 

It's unfortunate that you can't step outside your box and get off your white horse for a moment, though.

 

(competitive) Premades have intimidated the general PvP population so much that they either quit the match, sit on a node, or quit the game.

. So, first you say all premades are intimidating bullies, but then later say its only if you queue in order to kill noobs. Which one is it?

 

With a group of less than 8, there is no higher level competition. So that premise is wrong most of the time. Most premades do it so they can have someone they can count to guard a node, pass the ball or whatever else. killing bads is simply a side effect. The premades i run with dont even enjoy killing bads because its boring.

 

Also, i see pugs doing socially unacceptable things, such as ignoring the objectives, not knowing how to play their class and generally losing the game for their team. Playing a team game without basic skills or knowledge should be discouraged. Should they be kicked out of your queue as well? They cause their team to lose as surely as a premade on the opposing side.

 

and pugs can use exploits just as easily as premades, does that make them all bullies too? That argument is out.

. So, first you say all premades are intimidating bullies, but then later say its only if you queue in order to kill noobs. Which one is it?

 

I never said either.

I tell you what.. I'm going to help you with your reading problems. This should do the trick

 

With a group of less than 8, there is no higher level competition. So that premise is wrong most of the time. Most premades do it so they can have someone they can count to guard a node, pass the ball or whatever else. killing bads is simply a side effect. The premades i run with dont even enjoy killing bads because its boring.

You have no place in this discussion, as you seem to always resort to name calling. Are you insecure with yourself? Does your real life have no meaning? I feel like you need help, so here it is. You may find that you are outwardly projecting your weaknesses on others, and that's a character flaw that can be very disruptive to your personal life (if you have one).

 

For the record, when rated groups "slum it up" in regs, they choose to bring their "higher level" to that arena.

 

Also, i see pugs doing socially unacceptable things, such as ignoring the objectives, not knowing how to play their class and generally losing the game for their team. Playing a team game without basic skills or knowledge should be discouraged. Should they be kicked out of your queue as well? They cause their team to lose as surely as a premade on the opposing side.

 

The best thing you could possibly do is keep quiet for the moment. You make yourself look like a fool when you say these things. Not knowing how to play a class is NOT reprehensible in the slightest. Forcing someone to either deal with a very slanted situation or find another hobby IS. Using lower tiers of PvP as your exploit test zone (especially when you have an agreement not to use them in the higher levels) IS.

 

and pugs can use exploits just as easily as premades, does that make them all bullies too? That argument is out.

 

Yes, they can. Unfortunately your retort does NOT take into account the coordination of 4 ranked players using regs as a playhouse, coordinating broken mechanics and exploits just to "have fun", at the expense of the General Population.

premades are bullying people into quitting the game. .

 

yes, you did say premades are bullies, dont deny what you said, it makes you a liar. It you meant to say some premades or certain premades, then say it. By being unclear, you allow others to make assumptions that fit their argument. In this case, I can assume you meant all premades, since you did not state otherwise.

 

But do tell, which premades are bullies, there are casual premades, clearly not. Premades who group together in order to have a better experience like me, as you said not. and premades who farm pugs, as you said not. There aren't any other reasons to premade.

 

calling a bad player bad is simply a description, it isnt insulting or name calling. Unless you want to deny that skill exists.

 

If i was playing baseball and someone came and asked to play without knowing the rules or basic strategies, I would tell him to leave, and no one would disagree. thats socially acceptable. There are places to learn how to play, a game where your team is trying to win is not one of them. it leaves your team in a slanted situation(your problem with premades) as they are essentially down a player or two. In this case, lowbie pvp is commonly accepted as a learning ground.

 

Though i suppose i should just ignore you, as you call premades bullies and then complain when i call bad players bad, and deny your own arguments when they are debunked. Clearly a troll.

And ease off the ad hominem, especially if you are accusing another of insulting people.

@Maverick:

 

I find myself stepping in again to say this is an irrelevant issue to the purpose of this thread. I will temper my response because I am aware I respond strongly to the subject of bullying.

 

Quite simply, this most recent issue is not an issue of a system change addressing Premade vs. PuG (as has been direction of most of this thread).

 

The behavior to insult, intentionally degrade, exploit mechanics, or use a warzone for something other than its intended purpose is not something that is exclusive to grouped players. Nor is it any worse (or better) than when similar behaviors are exhibited by solo player. This is entirely an issue of conduct, and Bioware's enforcement of proper conduct.

 

No matter how the system is, there will always be hackers, cheaters, exploiters, abusive chatters, negative attitudes, etc, etc, etc... They are present in all forms of player and all types of play. To single out one groups misdeeds only serves to throw fuel on the fire, not further the debate.

 

This serves no purpose. There are some basic things that should be done by Bioware to improve the experience in PvP regardless of queue type, play-style, preference, attitude, etc.

 

1) Fix exploits, bugs, hacks.

2) Enforce/Punish misbehavior

3) Educate the Population on what is acceptable.

4) Make the game rules/mechanics transparent.

 

None of this effects, influences, or involves whether or not the best way to separate Non-Casuals from Casuals (Which is the heart of the premade vs. pug issue) is a solo-bracket option, an intelligent matchmaking, or some other third option no one's managed to toss out there yet.

 

I have to leave for work, but when I return I'll probably post a list of a number of quality ideas presented that work towards creating a healthy experience for all involved. They are more constructive and to the point than any finger pointing could ever manage. (And yes, this includes people who say disrespectful things about casuals).

Only thing this thread has proven is how bad the players in general have become.

 

Not talking about skill, talking about true PvP types who honestly are fine with the system.

 

Seriously so sad this crap gets this much attention.

Give them the damn solo que already. I mean place tcem in a warzone where they are completly ALONE, no teammates and no enemies and then they can be best being 50k damage horrorshows and have a 100% win ratio. This thread is a joke being kept up by 3-4 people who instead of actually going into pvp and learning their class go and moan here all day and then wnder why they loose. Well you loose because youre team is down to 7 because you are nothing but a burden.

 

the opponents are as loud and few in number as the proponents. just sayin'

Edited July 21, 2013 by foxmob

Please excuse me if I interrupt the swinging and name calling for a second, with an actual proposal for matchmaking criteria.

 

It's fairly simple (= easy to implement) and effective once the statistics start to "bubble up".

 

1) At each match end, the tally of a player wins / losses is updated. A very simple algorythm is used, that is, if the team wins he gets a +1, else a -1 (if he quits, 0). This disregards the individual player skill, gear etc, but it's not meant to do that. It just takes into account the *background situation* that led the player to win or lose. Of course soloers / puggers / undergeared players will tend to lose more than win so their tally is going to be lower than someone with full gear or that groups a lot. This value is divided by total lifetime matches played, so in the end we have a value ranging from zero to 1.

 

2) At each match end, an additional counter saves the potition on the scoreboard of the player vs his other faction members. A guy frequently losing but always coming at the top of his team (and dragging it somewhat) will tend to get higher in the scoreboard for his faction. That number is stored and is then averaged with the total player position saved grand average for all his matches. This will produce another number from 0 to 1 and it reflects (in a simplicistic yet faithful way) the player performance.

 

Come next match queue, those numbers are put together as follows:

 

Matchmaking_Rank = Total lifetime games lost / won (0...1) * (Total lifetime average performance (0...1) * Weight_Coefficient.

 

The Weight_Coefficient is an hard coded value (left to BW at discretion) that "rescales" the effect of personal performance over the total wins / losses and allows player performance to be more or less predominant in the matchmaking rank.

 

 

Now please feel free to resume the flames and whatever.

Only thing this thread has proven is how bad the players in general have become.

 

Not talking about skill, talking about true PvP types who honestly are fine with the system.

 

Seriously so sad this crap gets this much attention.

 

Pistols, imo, true pvp types should not be fine with the current system. True pvp types should want matches to be as even as possible and win because their team is the best of the best.

 

Currently if someone premades frequently and is fine with the system as is then I would consider them to be farther from the "true pvp type" than the noobiest of the solo q ragers in this thread.

 

Decent premades have huge advantages against pugs and decent premaders both understand this and should want to fight other decent premaders whenever possible. So true pvp types should want matchmaking more than anyone.

 

When I see people saying that premades don't have major advantages then I know they are either fooling themselves or they are bad players. Because as someone who used to spend a lot of time putting premades together in other games I know we have major advantages. A great premade should be able to carry a lot of scrubs and in swtor you only have to carry 4.

Please excuse me if I interrupt the swinging and name calling for a second, with an actual proposal for matchmaking criteria.

 

It's fairly simple (= easy to implement) and effective once the statistics start to "bubble up".

 

1) At each match end, the tally of a player wins / losses is updated. A very simple algorythm is used, that is, if the team wins he gets a +1, else a -1 (if he quits, 0). This disregards the individual player skill, gear etc, but it's not meant to do that. It just takes into account the *background situation* that led the player to win or lose. Of course soloers / puggers / undergeared players will tend to lose more than win so their tally is going to be lower than someone with full gear or that groups a lot. This value is divided by total lifetime matches played, so in the end we have a value ranging from zero to 1.

 

2) At each match end, an additional counter saves the potition on the scoreboard of the player vs his other faction members. A guy frequently losing but always coming at the top of his team (and dragging it somewhat) will tend to get higher in the scoreboard for his faction. That number is stored and is then averaged with the total player position saved grand average for all his matches. This will produce another number from 0 to 1 and it reflects (in a simplicistic yet faithful way) the player performance.

 

Come next match queue, those numbers are put together as follows:

 

Matchmaking_Rank = Total lifetime games lost / won (0...1) * (Total lifetime average performance (0...1) * Weight_Coefficient.

 

The Weight_Coefficient is an hard coded value (left to BW at discretion) that "rescales" the effect of personal performance over the total wins / losses and allows player performance to be more or less predominant in the matchmaking rank.

 

 

Now please feel free to resume the flames and whatever.

 

the performance is a rather inaccurate way of determining the strength of the person relative to the team, mostly due to the fact that it varies too much by role if going by medals(tanks and people that respec between 2 roles will be overvalued) and if it goes by pure numbers, people who tab dot or throw aoe everywhere will be overvalued. A stealth cap that wins the game will have almost no value, defenders undervalued.

 

 

and the way your equation is, the weight doesn't actually weight, you would want,

Matchmaking_Rank = Total lifetime games lost / won (0...1) + (Total lifetime average performance (0...1) * Weight_Coefficient.

 

I'd think it would be better to assign each person a rank(say starting at 1000), and the teams rank be the average of the individual ranks. When winning, you would be (enemy/friendly)*20, and if losing you would get (friendly/enemy)*-20. (20 was just a generic number.) Ex, your team rank is 1200, opponent is 1000, you would get 17 points for winning, and -24 points for losing, reflecting how you should win based on team rank. If you do good relative to your team, that usually means your team has low ranking, and you will not lose as much because of it, taking the place of your performance stat.

 

When grouping, it would ideally wait for 32 people. Take the side with highest average for the first 8, put the top 4 for that group in. Then put 8 from the other side. The remaining four on the first side are chosen to make the game even as possible. The remaining 16 fight each other unless there is a large difference, in which case wait until it can be evened. If the queue takes too long, it will take the first 16 and sort them so that they are as equal as possible.