I am trying to protect Force Wave!! So I made this poll. All opinions are welcome!!

 

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/566526

 

For those who don't trust links please go to misterpoll.com and search for "Force Wave". *At the moment misterpoll.com has to review this before it becomes available in the directory or search.

 

**Yes I know misterpoll.com is kinda trashy put it's the only poll site I could find that was searchable (for those who don't want to click on links from unknown people which can be dangerous).

 

Thanks!

This sucks.

 

Basically, and for most practical purposes, Sage/Sorcs lose one of their most potent abilities completely.

 

Because I don't stand at or near 10 meters, I will have to remove ForceStun

- from my normal rotations, even though it is quite powerful

- worse yet, from my list of potential interrupts. That List is now down to 1 at 30 meters. 1 interrupt against certain enemies is completely insufficient.

 

The Force Wave change is bad as well. That used to be my standard tool against crowding melee mobs. The stun it delivered was at least as valuable as the knockback. Now, its not. I don't really see how fleeing can replace that. Force wave gave me breathing room to regain initiative and get the upper hand on attacking. Fleeing will just get me out of sight and thus reset the whole encounter (thanks to the royally stupid insta-heal NPCs get when leaving combat)

 

Bad Idea.

 

And I agree with the others who complained about how Bioware's constant PvP tinkering keeps creating a stream of unintended trouble for PvE players. Stop it, already. Bioware!

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

 

 

Allison, thanks for this post. I know you're just the messenger and my comments are directed respectfully at others.

 

Dear devs.. this sums up the problem. Let me say this as clearly as possible.

 

THERE ARE TOO MANY CCs IN THE GAME.

 

THIS MAKES PVP AWFUL.

 

NO ONE ENJOYS LONG PERIODS WHERE YOU CAN'T CONTROL YOUR CHARACTER.

 

If you don't get this, if you can't understand this on a fundamental level you not only fail at game design but you fail to understand people (not just gamers) and what makes for a good time.

 

Lets make it simple: 500 points of Resolve per second of ANY control that decays at a rate of 100 points a second and during decay you are TOTALLY IMMUNE to further CCs.

This sucks.

 

Basically, and for most practical purposes, Sage/Sorcs lose one of their most potent abilities completely.

 

Because I don't stand at or near 10 meters, I will have to remove ForceStun

- from my normal rotations, even though it is quite powerful

- worse yet, from my list of potential interrupts. That List is now down to 1 at 30 meters. 1 interrupt against certain enemies is completely insufficient.

 

The Force Wave change is bad as well. That used to be my standard tool against crowding melee mobs. The stun it delivered was at least as valuable as the knockback. Now, its not. I don't really see how fleeing can replace that. Force wave gave me breathing room to regain initiative and get the upper hand on attacking. Fleeing will just get me out of sight and thus reset the whole encounter (thanks to the royally stupid insta-heal NPCs get when leaving combat)

 

Bad Idea.

 

And I agree with the others who complained about how Bioware's constant PvP tinkering keeps creating a stream of unintended trouble for PvE players. Stop it, already. Bioware!

 

I agree with some changes just for pvp will make problems in pve thats one thing bioware needs to do is have these changes separate from pvp and pve that way theirs no problems in other words going pvp flagged will have these changes in place not flagged will remove those changes or go into a warzone and the changes will be inplace etc etc.

Overall, I'm very disappointed with the direction of this proposed patch.

 

"Electro Dart and Cryo Grenade now have a 10-meter range.

Electrocute and Force Stun now have a 10-meter range."

These i can understand, they can be abused now with being insta cast 30 meters can be a bit much. With this change you wont have quite as many chain stuns in effect at once if they have to be up close to cast them.

 

"In addition, while Overload and Force Wave make for great escape abilities, they have done so previously at a cost to the overall PvP experience. What we want for these abilities is to create distance between you and your target(s), but what frequently occurs is a bad experience for incidental nearby enemies that aren’t your intended target(s). Jet Boost and Concussion Charge behave similarly, but they are limited to the Mercenary and Commando. Changing them has a less effective impact on the game, and those Advanced Classes play better with a stronger ability on a longer cooldown.

 

Overload and Force Wave have been redesigned. These abilities now knock back all targets within a 15-meter 120-degree cone in front of you. Furthermore, these abilities now knock back all potential targets instantly; they no longer wait for an animation note at the end of the ability animation."

 

This is just bad, bad... incidental nearby enemies that aren’t your intended target(s) ?? I'm sorry, but any enemy around me in a 360 degree 8 meter radius is my intended target. As others have said, you're making getting away from enemies even more difficult than it already is now. A lot of the time it is enemies behind you whacking on your behind that you want to put some space between them and you. So now, to knock them back I'd have to stop running forward... turn around and moonwalk slowly, activate force wave, then turn back around again to run away.... how in the world is that supposed to help my survivability? OK, you've extended the knockback area of effect 15 meters......only in front of me. Guess what? Being that the enemy was in front of me, other than cases of ledges and the enemy being slightly off to the side being knocked off said ledge, I'm still going to have to run through the enemy to get where I'm going.

Looks like Jet Boost and Concussion Charge are going to remain the same because those abilities are only used by 2 classes "Changing them has a less effective impact on the game"? Are you kidding me? Really?

To be clear, No, I don't want mercs and commandos to be nerfed in the same way consulars and inquisitors are having done to them. This nerf to cosulars and inquisitors is going to be very detrimental to their survivability.

The only positive thing with the change is enemies getitng knockbacked instantly instead of after the animation runs its course.

 

"We’ve also made adjustments to the Resolve system in Game Update 1.4. We’ve adjusted the gain logic of Resolve such that simultaneous and overlapping control effects no longer linearly add together their Resolve gain values. Instead, using a crowd control ability on an already controlled target now applies reasonable Resolve gain values by comparing the incoming control effect to the greatest of existing control effects."

 

My biggest gripe with pvp is getting chained stunned by multiple enemies and die without even being able to move 5 meters before dieing. This change is going to make this much, much worse. So having "reasonable Resolve gain values" applied is going to mean the enemy can chain stun a target many more times before the resolve bar fills up. This is going to translate into targets rarely making it to the goal line unless they are getting solid heals. You should really be looking into diminishing the effects of multiple stuns at once, not allowing more stuns to happen before the resolve bar gets filled up.

"Mercenaries and Commandos now have a 30-meter interrupt, Disabling Shot. This ability interrupts the target's current action and prevents that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. This ability can be trained at level 18."

This is a welcome change. Mercs and Commandos are like the red-headed stepchildren being the only classes not able to interrupt.

 

"Afterburners/Concussive Force: Rocket Punch/Stockstrike now immobilizes the target for 4 seconds instead of knocking it back. Damage caused after 2 seconds ends the effect. The knockback previously caused by this skill generated enough Resolve that it was actually detrimental to the Mercenary/Commando’s ability to further escape the attacker."

One of my strategies in Huttball is to stockstrike an enemy off the ledge that's waiting there by the firepit. Or in voidstar knocking them off the bridge. Yes, it sucks when getting knocked off ledge/bridge, but that is the risk one takes standing on a ledge/bridge. How about adjusting how stockstrike/rocket punch gererates resolve instead of taking away our knockback.

If this change goes live, I'll be specing out of concusive force. It's not a matter me saying don't change this or else, I'm just informing you i'm not going to put 2 points into the ability if there the knockback for stockstrike isn't there. The 4 meter extra knockback for concussion charge is nice, but i only speced concussive force because of the knockback for stockstrike.

 

I'm not going to get into the healing changes because I hate healing and avoid that role like the plague. I'll leave the feedback on that subject to the healers out there.

 

"Polarity Shift/Mental Alacrity now additionally grants immunity to interrupts for the duration. Improved visual FX to demonstrate this effect."

This is a big boon for sorcs/sages, but my big concern is trying to kill a healer sorc/sage is going to be near impossible during this duration unless there are multiple targets beating on him/her.

 

"In the case of Infiltration/Deception, the spec’s fragility was of great concern to many players, insofar as it didn’t encourage the spec to contribute well to lengthy fights or lend support to teammates."

In pvp it was very frustrating killing a target and even though the fight is over, a teammate somewhere is fighting and I can't restealth. Not being able to stealth even though I am not in combat doesn't allow me to contribute to lengthy fights.

My operative's burst is averageish in pvp, but in pve is subpar. There is a reason why groups don't want dps scoundrels/operatives in their pve groups(mainly talking operations here, HM FPs have been watered down so much, it doesn't take much dps). This patch does nothing to correct this issue.

 

"Kinetic Field/Entropic Field has been redesigned. Now critical hits cause you to build a Kinetic/Entropic Field, increasing damage reduction by 1% per point per stack. Stacks up to 3 times."

I know you moved the original effect to fade, but you had an ability that gave up to 30% reduction in area effect damage and give in return up to 3% damage reduction after criting someone 3 times. Seem such a minimal gain for a squishy cloth wearer spec that doesn't have the armor buff. This would make more sense for a darkness spec. Which speaking of that... So is this going to be a 1 point talent skill now?

 

"Clairvoyant Strike/Voltaic Slash: Using Project/Shock no longer consumes the buff provided by this ability. This change was made to better synergize with Spinning Strike/Assassinate during execute phases."

This sounds really great if I'm reading this correctly. So the buff only goes away if you stop using Clairvoyant Strike/Voltaic Slash long enough for the buff to wear off?

 

After reading the loving that shadows/assasins are getting, why so little for scoundrels/operatives? These changes aren't going to change much for ops/scounds viability in groups.

 

Why do players seems to know much better than your lead designer the issues with your combat dynamics?

 

You guys are also stating some classes are overpowered, so how about improving the others instead of making the existing ones worse?

 

Yes, we know......you act like we didn't read what you posted.

 

The problem isn't that someone got lots of resolve fast and thus unstoppable, the problem is that we are getting stunned left and right and can't move. All you've done is insure that we will continue to be stunned as long as possible under a coordinated attack, even if the attack isn't coordinated.

 

So let me make it a bit clearer.

 

Pre 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Pre 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can only stun lock you for 4 seconds because they stacked your resolve and gives you a slim chance to do something to survive.

Pre 1.4 Average stun-lock = 6 seconds (assuming 50% likelihood of each scenario)

 

Post 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Post 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can now stun lock you for 8 seconds because your resolve isn't filling up as fast, and you die.

Post 1.4 Average stun-lock = 8 seconds

 

As you can see with this remarkably simple analysis/math, the players are going to be stunned MORE ON AVERAGE after the patch, although the MAXIMUM REMAINS UNCHANGED.

 

We can debate all day about the merits of it, but the math is the math is the math. The average stun lock increases Post 1.4. It isn't hard man.

 

Edit: It's clear that you believe the problem is that we don't have enough stun-locking in PvP to reduce the effectiveness of certain classes; hence your focus on making more time available to be stunned. In exchange, you shorten the range of some stuns (snipers/gunslingers get to keep their 30m stun, while sorc/sage do not despite wearing light armor) and nerf the effectiveness of the knockback by making it frontal only based.

 

Maybe instead of making it easier to stunlock classes that appear to be "overpowered" (and for god's sake don't say you don't know which ones are overpowered, its the classes everyone spams in general chat looking for for ranked warzones), perhaps either lower their dps or increase the dps/CC/armor/whatever of the underpowered classes that are not wanted for ranked warzones. Geez man, it's pretty simple stuff. Instead you just made it so that on average people are going to be stunned more (yes, as I said before, the max remains unchanged).

 

Patch 1.4 should take the least desired PvP class and throw them a few buffs that are amplified based upon +expertise (this way it doesn't impact PvE). Done, move on to the next one. See how smart that was? I didn't do anything to PvE, and I didn't nerf anyone. Amazing, I know.

^ This is will be what happen when the patch goes live. People will get ganked even more.

 

Let's step back a bit:

• You guys @BioWare acknowledged there issues with classes being unstoppable in PvP... which only impacts Hutball.
  
• Game is already being called StunWars in PvP.
  

 

Being stunned is the exact same experience as having our keyboard taken away from ourselves.

 

I've been stun locked to death hundreds of times in PvP and I can assure you, this is by far the most frustating feeling in TOR PvP ever. Some time you'd just want to throw your keyboard through the window. You know the cycle: resapawn => run => stun => ganked => rinse and repeat. Eventually we're being able to shoot twice before dying.

 

Please have a senior designer step down and explain to me how that's fun for the players on both side of the stun?

 

And yet instead of adding roots to fill in resolve and speed up the resolve filling for most of the skills you're going to reduce it, only to "fix" one WZ issue. When you could have added new mechanisms in Hutt ball (only) to prevent the issue.

 

=> All in all you're not mitigating the stun/resolve issue, you are making it worse, way worse.

 

 

Why do you guys gives us the feeling you are intentionally sabotaging the game?

 

• People ask for less stun lock: you add more
  
• People ask for more gear customization: you make removing mods insanely costly and don't allow set bonuses transfer
  
• People ask for free roaming space sim: you dedicate a whole team to add "end content" space missions
  
• People tell you they don't like the 1.2 gear, you admit it's far from good and yet you display it in all your new pics, ads and videos.
  
• People ask for open world PvP: you add a new WZ
  
• People ask for very well known planets: you add the less desired not even mentioned planet.
  
• People ask to buff commando and mercs against melee and yet you remove their KD and reduce the range of their skills
   
  

 

What is it that your execs don't understand?

Edited September 6, 2012 by Deewe

Looks like sorcs will be the new FOTOM in hutt ball now

 

•Force Speed now has a 20-second cooldown (down from 30) for all Consulars and Inquisitors.

 

•Fadeout/Egress has been redesigned. Now causes Force Speed to remove all roots and snares and grant immunity to roots and snares for the duration

 

•Polarity Shift/Mental Alacrity now additionally grants immunity to interrupts for the duration. Improved visual FX to demonstrate this effect.

 

•Backlash/Kinetic Collapse: The incapacitation effect caused by this skill no longer breaks on damage.

 

/sigh

Well the small amount of Trooper Commandos left on our small thread of the class forums have reacted fantastically well to this latest news update.

 

I, for one, cannot wait to get molested by everything that moves come 1.4.

 

I just pray they lower our heal range to 10 meters ontop of this.

Well I play a gunnery commando and I can say both the 10m lowering range and the removal of KD stinks.

 

Now if you play a healer commando that's another story.

Hey Allison:

 

Tell me how my math/analysis is wrong on the following, I'd love to hear it:

 

Pre 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Pre 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can only stun lock you for 4 seconds because they stacked your resolve and gives you a slim chance to do something to survive.

Pre 1.4 Average stun-lock = 6 seconds (assuming 50% likelihood of each scenario)

 

Post 1.4 Scenario 1: Coordinated team stun locks you for 8 seconds and you die.

Post 1.4 Scenario 2: Uncoordinated team can now stun lock you for 8 seconds because your resolve isn't filling up as fast, and you die.

Post 1.4 Average stun-lock = 8 seconds

 

Seriously, the average time spent stun-locked is increased, not decreased. Please, please tell me my math/analysis is flawed. I know it isn't, but I'd be fascinated by the developers insight into how i'm wrong and they are right. The only difference now is that most stuns require a shorter range, but desired classes in RWZs like snipers/gunslingers still have a 30m range stun post 1.4.

 

We all know you don't want to "nerf" the overpowered class, so instead you thought of ways to stun-lock them to reduce their effectiveness. But as a result, you'd allowed everyone to get stun-locked even more.

 

Why can't you redesign some skills to also benefit from +expertise instead of the basic stats used in PvE? This would allow the developers to customize damage/mitigation/whatever to PvP and not effect PvE players. For instance, I know that at around 1250 expertise my damage bonus is about 20-22% (I forget exactly), but why not also allow my bonus damage stat to also benefit from +expertise like it does from say Willpower and power? That way +expertise has a a doubling effect, and allows you to customize the effects for PvP without impacting PvE. So my DPS sorc could actually do a lot more damage in warzones, but would be unaffected in PvE. This is so simple. Instead, all you have done is increase the average time a player can spend stun-locked.

 

Let me be crystal clear: We don't want to spend more time (on average) being stunned. We want classes to be balanced in PvP. While nerfs are sometimes the way to do it, the more beneficial way is to buff the underpowered classes. If you don't want to buff them too much for PvE, then make their damage/healing also be dependent upon +expertise. If you want to figure out which classes need buffs, just watch general chat when people are looking to form ranked warzones.

 

This is really simple stuff. It amazes me how messed up/complicated you have made it.

Looks like sorcs will be the new FOTOM in hutt ball now

 

•Force Speed now has a 20-second cooldown (down from 30) for all Consulars and Inquisitors.

 

•Fadeout/Egress has been redesigned. Now causes Force Speed to remove all roots and snares and grant immunity to roots and snares for the duration

 

•Polarity Shift/Mental Alacrity now additionally grants immunity to interrupts for the duration. Improved visual FX to demonstrate this effect.

 

•Backlash/Kinetic Collapse: The incapacitation effect caused by this skill no longer breaks on damage.

 

/sigh

 

Let me help you out there.

 

1) Force speed can already be spec'd for 20 seconds. I have a 20-second cooldown as of right now. It helps (clearly), but we are still considered very squishy. Remember, force speed lasts for a whopping 2 seconds.

 

2) Fadeout/Egress only applies to healers; DPS sorc/sage don't get this. If a healer is running, he/she isn't healing. A healer that isn't healing isn't an effective healer. They are most likely trying to LOS their attacker, which often puts them in LOS issues with their potential team-mates needing heals.

 

3) Polarity Shift/Mental Alacrity is unused in PvP because DPS sorcs/sage almost always use insta-cast spells or channeled spells with no cooldown. As a result, i see about 0% of DPS sorc/sages benefiting from it. I see 0% of healers benefiting from it, since it's pretty high up the DPS tree. It might make it worthwhile to go high up one of the DPS trees to get the buff for 10 seconds, but I doubt it.

 

You forgot to mention the stun range nerf combined with the overload nerf, in exchange for a modest self-heal every 30 seconds.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Sundragon

This sucks.

 

Basically, and for most practical purposes, Sage/Sorcs lose one of their most potent abilities completely.

 

Because I don't stand at or near 10 meters, I will have to remove ForceStun

- from my normal rotations, even though it is quite powerful

- worse yet, from my list of potential interrupts. That List is now down to 1 at 30 meters. 1 interrupt against certain enemies is completely insufficient.

 

The Force Wave change is bad as well. That used to be my standard tool against crowding melee mobs. The stun it delivered was at least as valuable as the knockback. Now, its not. I don't really see how fleeing can replace that. Force wave gave me breathing room to regain initiative and get the upper hand on attacking. Fleeing will just get me out of sight and thus reset the whole encounter (thanks to the royally stupid insta-heal NPCs get when leaving combat)

 

Bad Idea.

 

And I agree with the others who complained about how Bioware's constant PvP tinkering keeps creating a stream of unintended trouble for PvE players. Stop it, already. Bioware!

 

 

Defining Ability for Balance Sage is Sever Force, so a long range stuns is gone?

 

Also as interupt range is now 10 meters what the hell am I going to do when something is shooting me from 30 meters?

Edited September 6, 2012 by Metalmac

My biggest question is what else is changing for assassins??? Also more details please...

 

They will have unlimited mobility if only the changes as described go in. So for force speed:

 

New 20 Second Base CD - 10 Seconds(Lighning Recovery) - 5 Seconds Avoidance = 5 Seconds???

 

Call me crazy but i'd say its probably safe to guess that lightning recovery is going away or at least lowered to 5 seconds?

 

Also will point out that magnetism could be huge combined w/ eye of the storm and the 10s reduced cooldown from set bonus (what allows you to use spike outside of stealth). Pretty much would be a spammable ultimate ball carrier killer and ultimate start kiting move... Jugs and Marauders will feel some serious pain from it if its not above tier 3 or 4 in deception or madness trees. Also combined w/ even a 10s speed/rootbreak could see it getting seriously broken..

Every class balance change makes me wish PvP and PvE had totally separate specs.

Ame to that brother.

 

Don't worry, maybe they'll sell CC breaker potions in the store.

What is this "maybe"? This is EA we are talking about. If it makes money, they do it. No matter how shameful/

 

Healers are already too squishy in PvP and now you nerfed their survivability even further by turning Overload and Force Wave into cones. Really?

 

"The way control abilities were designed encouraged this behavior, and the resulting gameplay could be frustrating."

How do you not understand that making Resolve build slower is only going to increase the frequency of the already frustrating and rage-quit inducing stun-locking in PvP?

 

And you're doing it because it'll benefit unorganized PuGs? How do you not realize that anything that makes things easier for unorganized PuGs will benefit organized pre-made teams even more? This will only further increase the performance gap between PuGs and pre-mades. Which means more frustration and rage-quitting on PuGs, which means the organized PvPers have even less opposition to fight against.

 

I truly don't mean to sound rude Mr. Peckenpaugh, but do you actually PvP in this game? I don't mean against your fellow developers but against real organized players? I ask because I do and while I'm far from being one of the best PvPers in this game (not even close), even I can see how these changes will only makes things worse.

None of the devs actually play the game they create. It's how they have such crappy updates. If they actually played what they release then would actually have decent updates and fixes. God help us all when that happens.

 

Don't break something that works.

But, that EA's way of knowing it worked in the first place.

 

Once again PVP QQ's ruin it for PVE folks. Thanks BW!

Amen brother. Preach it.

 

And so it begins. PvP'rs demanding changes that screw over PvE. I thought that maybe, just once, we'd have a PvE centric game.

Quote for truth. I had hoped just the same as you, but then I remembered this is EA we are talking about.

 

So you're taking the biggest complaint pvpers have, too many stuns, and making it worse? We'll gain even LESS resolve?

 

So much for reading feedback. Worst design team ever.

What is really left to say that hasn't already been said.

 

Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about.

 

First of all, please do keep in mind that reading about changes and experiencing them can be different. We are looking forward to your feedback once you've had some time to see these changes when the PTS becomes available!

Oh you don't EA. You lost the privilege of me giving you benefit of the YEARS ago!! Anything that is EA is a piece of shït until proven otherwise.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the Stun Wars are still going to continue, but now are going to take a back seat to the Steath Wars.

 

I know this your first MMO BioWare. It was nice little experiment, but it failed...HARD. OK, it's at the very least debatable whether or not you did PvE right. OK. The updates haven't been completely 100% pure bad. There have been a FEW goodies in each patch.

 

If I wasn't getting my sub for free I wouldn't been gone already.

lol the only response to this thread was to talk about Resolve? are ya kidding me? SAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGEDSAGES DO NOT WANT FORCE WAVE CHANGED

 

get the hint?

The changes look pretty good to me. Most likely there will be some other, smaller adjustments that didn't make the article.

 

The change to resolve is a good one. It was quite frustrating to see the ball carrier unnecessarily get full resolve before walking across a fire trap or heading to the score line. I think the change to inquisitor/mercenary stun range will cut down a lot of the "stun wars" stuff being talked about. I know as an assassin the 30m range was absolutely huge. It meant I could stun someone when on a different level of the catwalk, or across two fire traps. This simply won't be possible anymore. It's a nerf to me, but I'm more than happy to cut down some of the critical stun opportunities (it's often me getting stunned and frustrated anyways).

 

The new overload is ok, I guess. I agree with Austin that there were a lot of times when I didn't want to hit people 360. This often happens of the catwalks - the primary target gets knocked off and everyone else gets punted back a few yards on the same catwalk. So in the end I just added a bunch of resolve to someone I wasn't even trying to knock off. The only really important thing for me is the change to instant knockback. This is going to make control a lot better.

 

Merc/Sorc changes look really well done. Barely any negative effects to PvE performance. Mercs are going to love interrupts and lightning sorcs are going to love *not* being interrupted. Healing sorcs get to clear roots/snares plus get immunity. The buff to backlash is really helpful too. Please don't say overload is a critical PvE skill - the uses for it are pretty rare and really not affected by the change.

 

Deception finally gets some much needed buffs. I believe that the changes will bring deception more in line with other classes in both PvE and PvP (can't say for certain without analysis though).

 

Edit: Misread the deception changes. It won't be as big a dps boost as I thought.

 

Overall what I see in these notes are:

1. Reduction in stun/knockback frequency.

2. Some of the worst PvP specs (deception, corruption, lightning, arsenal, bodyguard) get buffed.

3. One of the worst PvE dps specs (deception) gets a buff.

 

I am hoping that the top performing specs in PvE and PvP get a slight nerf in 1.4. Operative dps needs a few more changes to make it effective.

Edited September 6, 2012 by RLWalker

So now that the resolve bar is going to take forever to fill up with this new so called balance garbage, is the cool down for stun breakers like resolute still going to be 2 mins? If the cooldown is not lowered to maybe a minute then what is the use of having it? Lets face it, BW keeps running this game into the ground. Unfortunately, I dont see this game lasting another year because they will lose more subs and not be able to fund the game, they already let go a bunch of devs to cut costs last month so it's hard for me to get my hopes up that they will actually fix things. This thread is probably a lost cause because the devs wont read it anyways.

Change the commandos heal cast reduction to the barrier proc instead of our high damage proc. Edited September 6, 2012 by Destoroyah

Querstion directed at Timias:

Please explain how any of the changes are gamebreaking for you in PvE land.

 

Ever have a Stealthkiller pop in behind you while you're working on the mobs in Denova? No? Guess not. Try it sometime.

Ever have a Stealthkiller pop in behind your healer who's 20m away in Denova? Try your electrocute .. no DPS while you run (as a Ranged DPS) to stun him to give your healer a break. Some mobs don't have Agro Tables, so saying the Tank needs to take care of it is BS. After all, Opreations ARE Teamwork.

 

Nice to see you play a Sorcerer and a Sage

Only thing that baffles me is why they're basically making easier to stunlock people... Yea in pugs you get penalized for badly timed double ccs but I would have thought that generally speaking the cc immunity gained from that was far less frustrating on a whole than the cc heavy combat in the first place. Now every pug gets training wheels to shutting people down for 8 sec?

 

I must have missed all the "raaaage ball carrier immune and scored cos of a scrub cast" threads... easy to miss amongst all the "swtor: cc wars suck" ones tbh. I'm really really intrigued by what metrics BW gagues issues that need addressing at this stage lol.

 

Well guess we need to wait and see how the vision of the new folks in charge of this after georg left pans out. No sense to cry till at least pts.

The proposed changes are not well considered, they don't adhere to the reasoning set forth and the exceptions are massive contradictions.

 

I'm sure the whole team is under tremendous pressure but your basic reasoning is from another world.

I have to think your internal testers declared that these are important issues - in which case you need different testers, the feedback they've given you is complete garbage.

 

However, you've stumbled onto some actual issues in the process:

 

1. Mercenaries and Commando's need a (ranged) interrupt.

The exclusion of an interrupt was never explained, other than the devs saying that it's intended design. I can't come up with a compelling reason, even at extreme possibilities for why Mercs and Commando's should be the only ones to be excluded in the first place.

 

2. Rocket punch knockback

How might anybody come to the conclusion that the tiny little knockback might be used for any kind of escape?

I've never encountered anybody anywhere who had thought or envisioned at any time that using it to somehow 'escape' might be a good idea. If however you can (somehow) use it as an escape i would honestly love to see it on youtube, seriously there should be a huge prize if anybody can pull it off.

 

3. Tracer Lock / Charged Barrel

This is nice, it contributes to a diversity of gameplay to a class that naturally has hybrid aspects.

 

4. A snare on Kolto Residue

Should be talented. 50% is a massive snare, you can almost guarantee that its purpose would be transformed from healing to snaring.

 

5. Peacekeeper / Frontline Medic

Another good mechanic for encouraging more diverse play.

 

Sorcs / Sages

1. Force Speed 20sec CD

More mobility is great but this really is the cheapest of all possible solutions.

 

2. Unnatural Preservation / Force Mend

So... you're granting healers another heal, another button to press with an extremely specific scope...

A healer in trouble is generally GCD limited more than anything else, how exactly does this help?

 

3. Dark Resillience / Valiance is certainly an outlier talent that needs more functionality... but we'd be better served if it were replaced entirely. Making it more attractive to PVPers however might harm more than help as taking those points means fewer points on more important talents.

 

4. Fadeout / Egress removing roots & snares

Assassin tanks get this, it's quite helpful and absolutely a good thing for Sorcs & Sages - on a 20sec CD however they'll be zipping all over the place. Combined with their other rather potent utility abilities I can imagine them absolutely dominating the endzones of Huttball. Not sure about Voidstar but there's real potential..

 

5. Polarity Shift / Mental Alacrity

This is a good change, more caster classes in games should have windows during which they're uninterruptible. Gear disparity will be very noticeable though, healers who can't be interrupted can only be killed if you can out-damage their healing - which again, without huge gear disparity is generally impossible.

 

6. Backlash / Kinetic Collapse not breaking on damage

You do realise that what you have here is an unpredictable, non-telegraphed AOE stun.

Again, nice to have but it is completely counter to your base reasoning for such changes.

 

 

-------------------------

Prior to Game Update 1.4, stealth classes and specs had an “infiltrate and eliminate” focus that effectively served solo or small team gameplay, but the specs that focused on stealth (Infiltration/Deception, Scrapper/Concealment) weren’t valued very highly for group gameplay...

------------------------

 

... and so your solution to 'too much lone wolf' style gameplay is to make their Vanish and stealth options more available and desirable?

I don't see how does that make any sense - surely the way to encourage more 'team play' is to give them more opportunities to contribute to the team and to remain in the vicinity of their team?

 

.. and the rest reinforces their reliance on burst damage - the chief complaint in all games against stealth classes is that there's often very little that can be done to counter an ambush, ambush combat is nearly always a one-sided affair and is the antithesis of the "... make a comeback" philosophy.

And, yet again - the PvP community dominating the overall mechanics of the game in yet another MMO.

 

Disappointed.

One thing for sure, the new resolve system will allow us to ninja cap a solo guarded node infinitely easier. Send in 2 stealths, one will cap, while the other will spam mez, without having to worry about timing the second mez right in case the defender still has got his cc break.

 

Of course it can also mean there will be no such thing as a solo guarded node anymore

its just crap sry to say 1.4 and if this is not going to change well im off to a other game! so do ya thing bio els bye bye

*sigh* thanks to a nice bug that your last update 09/05 did on the conflagration mission (a sorcerer class quest) and stopping me to get to chapter 3 with my sorc, I rolled the FOTM class (maybe I should say flavor of the past 3 months) a marauder. Hope you guys don't nerf this one too like you did to sorcerers.

Why the heck are you ruining force wave?

And why the heck aren't you addressing more prominent class balance issues?

 

I really think you should fire Austin Peckenpaugh and Rob Hinkle and hire someone that plays the damn game.

Edited September 6, 2012 by GizmoBill

Here's what's utterly infuriating.

 

From the point of view of a healer sorc, the overload change is awful. I'm sure some pithy soul , intend on pretending he's some kind of uber-l33t veteran, will opine that the new method is more precise and requires skill.

 

Let me explain, shortly, why it is stupid and will not work for PVP or PVE.

 

PVE:

 

Pre - Nerf: OL + EB could be used offensively (smashing and stunning a pack and then dropping FS / CL) or defensively (knocking back and stunning so you could drop FS and a bubble and get the heck out). It was hardly "overpowered" and no one -- I repeat, no one complained about it. I've asked in SEVERAL threads for someone to point out where people said this needed to be changed, and no one has.

 

Post - Nerf: Offensively, the increased range is useless, since the knockback is instant. What the heck can I do with that? Knock back a few melee classes for a second? Defensively, instead of having a choice between using this to shore up defenses, drop bubble, or make the choice to run, now ALL I can do with it is turn , knockback, hit FS and run away. Brilliant.

 

Again, people will say this is a skill issue. Half your player base is keyboard turning people in greens who don't even read the forums and are casuals. This is not going to "improve" their play experience in any way. It's going to ruin it. Skilled players can compensate, but you already have people saying if this goes through they're done, so it's not a net positive.

 

From a PVP standpoint, it's even worse. There is ZERO utility for this , and everyone saying otherwise must not be even remotely familiar with PVP. When you have 2 or 3 guys on you, the "instant" speed is offset completely by the need to turn, and instead of being able to position yourself to knock them back where you wanted, now you have to hope there's a position to knock them back that allows you to get everyone in a stupid cone, or miss some and hope you can ride it out.

 

I'm sure some people like the changes. I don't , and the resolve change and "explaination" just further cements in my mind that these people are not bothering to listen.