Incorrect.

 

And narrative. And exploration. And customization. And "sandbox" elements. And economy. And roleplay support. And seasonal events. And...

 

Clearly not. Preponderance of evidence reveals the exact, diametric opposite conclusion.

 

BfA is the first expansion pack in years that's exceeded and maintained its launch boost.

 

Also wrong. It's the #3 MMORPG worldwide and its Western player base exceeds the number of Westerners playing FFXIV.

 

And yet their raids are notoriously boring DPS orgies that do not satisfy dedicated raiders.

 

FFXIV is not even close to the biggest MMO around and most of their content updates do not focus on endgame raiding. Rather raiders are content to bash their faces on high tuned hard modes and beg for bug fixes to occupy the time between new raids

 

There is a strong disconnect between the reality of this genre and its market as the facts reveal and what you'd prefer to be true according to your own taste in games.

This whole post made me laugh lets look at everything.

Blizzard is in full damage control mode right now. go look at the forums for wow they just released a pirate boat for a six month sub its clear theres no new content coming to wow for six months. what an epic blunder on blizzards part they had the biggest mmo in the world and now its gone.

Oh and eso? blunder after blunder and bethesda knows how bad they have it. the new eso+ is just awful and its clear that eso is now on its last legs. i wouldn't be too shocked if eso gets shut down after failout 76 bombs when that comes out. really bethesda had it coming for insulting gamers.

It is crystal clear to anyone with half a brain that the only game doing well is ffxiv. and that's due to square coming out with content that the players want. working with sony to make ffxiv one of the best games both for pc and the ps4. stay mad dude its just how things are now.

This whole post made me laugh

Laughing at facts and sober minded reasoning is a queer habit.

Blizzard is in full damage control mode right now. go look at the forums for wow they just released a pirate boat for a six month sub its clear theres no new content coming to wow for six months. what an epic blunder on blizzards part they had the biggest mmo in the world and now its gone.

The forums have forecast the imminent death of WoW since OG Naxxramas. They have rarely been an accurate barometer for prevailing opinion. The majority of players in any MMORPG game never communicate on the forums even if they browse them. Maybe WoW deserves to die, and I certainly don't miss it after quitting before Warlords of Draenor went into beta, but it's suffered worse content droughts and turned out fine.

WoW has staying power because it doesn't only pander to raiders. They have something for everyone from the Mythic tier raiders to the PvP neckbeards to the 30-year-old roasties collecting faux pokemon battle pets. People sub to WoW for years happily without touching much or any of the "real MMO content" they don't feel like playing.

On a related note, WoW's Mythic raids are more difficult than Wildstar's designs. Guilds that left WoW for Wildstar because of their obnoxious h4xcores only marketing buzz expected that after grinding their teeth on Wildstar's BS raids for a couple of years they'd just tiptoe through the tulips in WoW and show them casual scrubs how it's done. They ate a lot of crow. This is an important point because said veterans did not believe Blizzard was capable of making challenging raids anymore due endgame raids no longer being their heart and soul favorite child focus.

Oh and eso? blunder after blunder and bethesda knows how bad they have it. the new eso+ is just awful and its clear that eso is now on its last legs. i wouldn't be too shocked if eso gets shut down after failout 76 bombs when that comes out. really bethesda had it coming for insulting gamers.

Neither of those things are objective analyses. Insomuch as we can get metrics for estimating player activity, ESO is still one of the top games in an anemic genre. I don't play it and I'm not sure why (maybe IP loyalty) but it's doing much better than almost any competitor in the Western market, including FFXIV, as far as revenue and activity are concerned. Could be cultural differences; ESO is said to have better PvP than FFXIV. Could also help that ESO, like FFXIV, can be played on consoles.

And Bethesda is not universally reviled by gamers like you're implying. Some people have a low opinion for several reasons such as 76 shaping up to be a pseudo MMO, but the normal, average, everyday Plebeian seems to have been snow jobbed by their "bro-tier" E3 presentation. I frequently see them listed these days along with Capcom as a "redeemed" company. If they insulted gamers, it wasn't enough to kill them anytime soon.

It is crystal clear to anyone with half a brain that the only game doing well is ffxiv. and that's due to square coming out with content that the players want. working with sony to make ffxiv one of the best games both for pc and the ps4.

Once again, it is "crystal clear" to anyone who bothers to research instead of reading hot takes on /v/ and reddit that FFXIV does respectably well but is not the dominant player in the West. They are coming out with content that their players want but other games in other markets are beating them with shared attention on content you wrongly claim isn't real endgame or what gamers want.

stay mad dude

Stop projecting. You're only kidding yourself.

This whole post made me laugh lets look at everything.

 

Blizzard is in full damage control mode right now. go look at the forums for wow they just released a pirate boat for a six month sub its clear theres no new content coming to wow for six months. what an epic blunder on blizzards part they had the biggest mmo in the world and now its gone.

If you are laughing, are you sure it isn't laughing at yourself? You're quoting memes as if they are facts. The WoW forums are just like the SWTOR forums: full of hysteria and bad information. Blizzard is still the biggest MMO, and the latest expansion (which is less than 2 months old itself) still has new content coming out in droves, on top of the newest raid being barely two weeks old. The 8.1 expansion has not only been announced, it will be followed up by even more content before the end of the year that will likely be announced at Blizzcon in November.

They are not in damage control mode at all. The mount that they designed to be released was data mined 3 or 4 months ago, before the expansion ever came out... that's not damage control. It's a smart reward to offer if you're looking for player retention, which always drops off after an expansion. Only this time, it hasn't been nearly as bad as other expansions. You need to get your facts straight, because what you posted is a bunch of false info.

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If you are laughing, are you sure it isn't laughing at yourself? You're quoting memes as if they are facts. The WoW forums are just like the SWTOR forums: full of hysteria and bad information. Blizzard is still the biggest MMO, and the latest expansion (which is less than 2 months old itself) still has new content coming out in droves, on top of the newest raid being barely two weeks old. The 8.1 expansion has not only been announced, it will be followed up by even more content before the end of the year that will likely be announced at Blizzcon in November.

 

They are not in damage control mode at all. The mount that they designed to be released was data mined 3 or 4 months ago, before the expansion ever came out... that's not damage control. It's a smart reward to offer if you're looking for player retention, which always drops off after an expansion. Only this time, it hasn't been nearly as bad as other expansions. You need to get your facts straight, because what you posted is a bunch of false info.

 

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Got to give him credit for being an equal opportunity trash-critic of MMOs though.

He appears to dislike every single one, save for one.. and I bet even that love affair has a limited life span as well.

oh yeah I remember, Wildstar used to be talked about so much on these forums years ago. People used to say it'd outlive this game and that it was the next evolution in MMO's or something, I guess that didn't quite happen in the end

But still, MrJurgens was right all along. Wildstar, along with GW2, Diablo III, ESO, all these great games hurt SWTOR and now look at where this game is at now. Jurgens had the last laugh. So much for some antagonists on these boards for calling him a "hater" and "troll".

But still, MrJurgens was right all along. Wildstar, along with GW2, Diablo III, ESO, all these great games hurt SWTOR and now look at where this game is at now. Jurgens had the last laugh. So much for some antagonists on these boards for calling him a "hater" and "troll".

The state of the game has more to do with poor decisions made by our Devs than other MMOs coming around IMO. None of those games killed SWTOR, SWTOR did it.

The state of the game has more to do with poor decisions made by our Devs than other MMOs coming around IMO. None of those games killed SWTOR, SWTOR did it.

I know, but the increase of competition in what are generally received as better games was one factor in this game's death. What you said is the another and arguably the main factor of the proverbial TORtanic.

Jurgens got a lot of hate from forum apologists in 2013 and 2014 for his critical assessments of SWTOR and was simply derided as a "hater" or "troll". Now look at SWTOR from 2016 onwards. He's been vindicated.

I know, but the increase of competition in what are generally received as better games was one factor in this game's death. What you said is the another and arguably the main factor of the proverbial TORtanic.

 

Jurgens got a lot of hate from forum apologists in 2013 and 2014 for his critical assessments of SWTOR and was simply derided as a "hater" or "troll". Now look at SWTOR from 2016 onwards. He's been vindicated.

I have no idea who this "Jurgens" is, I'm merely criticizing the notion that just for coming out those games "knocked SWTOR out of the park" as it is. I'll concede that increased competition is likely a factor. I just think it's an overestimated one, as I've said, SWTOR is to blame for its own condition.

IT was a fun game but it was to be expected since it try to be too hardcore and an mmorpg doesnt survive on hardcore content alone.

Casuals are a huge part of the market so you need to both have story and easy solo and group content as well as competitive raiding/pvp content to truly get big which is not easy

IT was a fun game but it was to be expected since it try to be too hardcore and an mmorpg doesnt survive on hardcore content alone.

 

Casuals are a huge part of the market so you need to both have story and easy solo and group content as well as competitive raiding/pvp content to truly get big which is not easy

I think the one telling thing Wildstar contributed to the MMO studio world is the absolute proof by demonstration that there is no commercial success to be had by returning to old school hard grinding end game group focus in an MMO format. It's a small and fickle market segment and in today's MMO market.. now days it's all about appealing to a broad range of demographics, with priority to the more casual "do some of everything" player.