I'm trying smuggler but im not liking the idea of taking cover.... I could go with Trooper but im reading that it's a military type story and I'm goign to be livign that soon (going to basic soon.)

So that's out. For the Republic I can stay with my Smuggler or go JK. Except my only concern is getting all of the philosophy. I played KOTR2: Sith Lords and I hated the Jedi philosophy. Feelings, emotions, thats what makes us human. The Jedi philosophy equates love and hate and says that anything that is human in terms of emotions is bad. Even good emotions: love, care, compassion, understanding, patience, kindness, etc seem to be put down. At least in KOTOR2: Sith Lords they were.

So I want to be a charging warrior but i dont want to play a storyline filled with the Jedi Philosophy....

I don't like ths Smuggler style of taking cover....I may have to stick with it if the Jedi story is full of the philosophy.

Growing up I had a hard time feeling anything positive (parents fought a lot.) I was emotionally stunted for the longest time. If i even began to feel happy I would mentally shut it down. Yes, I was miserable.

I'm getting better now though. After living basically being emotionless growing up I really don't want to hear about it in a game. So yes, I was living the Jedi code w/or realizing it (the whole there is no emotion part) and it was a living nightmare.

So no to Trooper because of the story (I'll be living it and I dont want to get any misconceptions about the military from it.)

Jedi Knight maybe if the philosophy isn't anywhere in the story. Same with Jedi Consular.....the risk of the philosophy being there.

OR Smuggler and have to deal with having to Press F to go into cover every single time.

PS: When I read "There is no emotion, there is peace." I think of the way I was. I literally shut down anything positive. It took years and years and countless hours of help from friends and family before I could begin to allow myself to feel positive emotions again (Happiness, Joy, Care, Love, Compassion, Family and friend relationship connections.)

So when I read "There is no emotion, there is peace" it disturbs me greatly because I think that "There is no emotion, there is peace" is saying that emotions should be suppressed, denied, pushed aside, and ignored.

If you understood the Jedi Code, you (not you specifically) wouldn't have a problem.

This may help you.

If you like the Smuggler story, play a Scoundrel and never bother with cover again.

As far as the Jedi stories go, it's a funny thing about them. In every Jedi story that I can remember, whether it be the Knight story here, the actual movies, the books, and so on, the "Jedi Philosophy" of suppression of emotion is usually proven wrong. Anakin Skywalker fell to the Dark Side because of fear, but he was redeemed because of love. The Jedi Knight in TOR can romance a companion and still "live in the Light," as it were.

I'm with you. I think the Jedi Code is incredibly restrictive, but it's only one philosophy. I prefer the Jedi Code in my signature. There are organizations (like the Zeison Sha) that prove the Jedi way is only one way. Perhaps your Jedi, like mine, can show that there's another way.

Thank you everyone

You all really helped me understand this, Aurbere

"But let's see what Odan-Urr originally intended with the Jedi Code:

"There is no Emotion, there is Peace"

Surely this means that a Jedi should be emotionless, yes? No. This line refers to a Jedi's clarity of mind. Odan-Urr believed that emotions were necessary for the Jedi to have, but understood that these emotions should not interfere with the decisions a Jedi makes."

That, that right there. ^

And how my (theoretical) Jedi character can show that there is another way, like your character did, JacenHallis.

I'm trying smuggler but im not liking the idea of taking cover.... I could go with Trooper but im reading that it's a military type story and I'm goign to be livign that soon (going to basic soon.)

 

So that's out. For the Republic I can stay with my Smuggler or go JK. Except my only concern is getting all of the philosophy. I played KOTR2: Sith Lords and I hated the Jedi philosophy. Feelings, emotions, thats what makes us human. The Jedi philosophy equates love and hate and says that anything that is human in terms of emotions is bad. Even good emotions: love, care, compassion, understanding, patience, kindness, etc seem to be put down. At least in KOTOR2: Sith Lords they were.

 

So I want to be a charging warrior but i dont want to play a storyline filled with the Jedi Philosophy....

 

I don't like ths Smuggler style of taking cover....I may have to stick with it if the Jedi story is full of the philosophy.

Roll a Bounty Hunter!

Roll a Bounty Hunter!

If I ever decide to go Sith then that will definitely be my first choice.

I have Jedi Knight who helps people out, does the classic "Jedi stuff" (save planets, give money to innocent beggars/orphans, not accept payment, try to find a peaceful solution for most scenarios) but i also rack up darkside points because i often make decisions based on emotions like hateing a certain character who killed lots of people and not letting him live or helping the republic secure ways to beat the empire even if they mean more war as my Knight believes the Empire must be stopped. He also believes romance is fine and all though hes not flirting with everyone he enjoys a nice emotional attachment with Kira.

So thankfully with the dark side/light side system i can do all that and if i want to RP it i just think of Anakin a bit during the clone wars movie or i say to myself my Knight believes in the Jedi more for them serving than republic not for their actual code. He believes the republic must defeat the empire but that doesn't mean hes going to fall to the darkside like Revan or Anakin (who was manipulated into thinking the Jedi were against the republic)

Jedi certainly don't disapprove of care, kindness, patience, and compassion. In fact if you play a darkside Consular one of the Jedi Council members at one point will tell you "A quick lightsaber must be tempered by great compassion, Jedi." The reason they don't encourage romantic love is mainly because it's a passion that can cloud a Jedi's objectivity or potentially be twisted to the darkside. Emotion is not bad in an of themselves, but they are considered dangerous and reckless because they can lead a Jedi to the darkside.

The Order wants Jedi to be level headed guardians not emotionless drones.

The Jedi Knight story actually works well with the idea of a Jedi who revels in his emotions just a little bit more than he is supposed to. Both the Knight and the Consular can play very differently depending on exactly how you want your Jedi to be, but the Lightside Knight's dialogue seems more appropriate for a Jedi with a little bit of a rebellious streak.

IMHO the Jedi Knight story is a petty straightforward one. What I disliked about it was that it was at times to obvious, too straight at the enemy, to predictable. However, it never occurred particularly philosophic to me, in the contrary, it was rather mindless.

My favourite story is the Imperial Agent story.

I don't know about the smuggler, my highest smuggler is only level 23 or so. However, only the gunslingers really rely on ranged combat, as others have said before. A scoundrel damage dealer will usually go into melee and rarely use cover.

Jedi certainly don't disapprove of care, kindness, patience, and compassion

There are several instances on Tython that speak against it.

The Jedi Consular may ask one of the holograms on the very first class mission (retrieve the holograms) "What about compassion?" or something like that, and the hologram replies that a Jedi must always be completely impartial and must not get emotionally involved or something like that.

Later there is a conversation there is a situation with a padawan, tasked to lift a heavy boulder using the Force and getting caught while receiving help from you. Depending on what you answer the Padawan gets expelled (a pretty extreme measure, if you asked) and if you then notice that you feel pity the master answers that such an emotion would be infit for a Jedi as well and that again one should be completely neutral.

I believe the Jedi Order in SW:TOR is a seriously stiff arsed and annoying interpretation. That should not keep the player from playing their characters their own way of course.

I believe the Jedi Order in SW:TOR is a seriously stiff arsed and annoying interpretation. That should not keep the player from playing their characters their own way of course.

The Jedi Order is a bit stuffy and stuck on old protocols, yes. Kind of like some traditional martial arts schools where you only ever do it like it's been done since the scrolls were penned, regardless of whether the stances and techniques have anything to do with real combat in this age. Looks and traditions have become more important than form and function, but people often find this strangely reassuring.

Based on what I'm reading, I wouldn't make a very good Jedi. I am motivated by care, concern, all of that. That's what drives me. The important thing (even for real life) is still trying to step back and be like "Is this a rational decision."

Seeing someone in pain. Their voice, how they look. Thinking about their situation and how it makes them sorrowful. Wanting to alleviate their suffering and help them be better. (It's more complicated than that but that's the general idea.) THAT is what drives moves me to action, personally. Emotions give the drive to act and passions give us the drive to act.

So no, my character won't be a perfect Jedi. Not if it means being driven by logic to act and not driven by passion/emotion to act. The actual action should be looked at in a rational light. But the drive. The will and drive to alleviate suffering. That internal fire/drive/will to aid those in pain and sorrow cannot be a logical, cold, impartial fire. It doesn't work that way.

I'm still going to feel stuff, dangit. The drive and motivation will move me to action. Say someone messes up and gets that Padawan expelled, frak what the Jedi Master says Feeling something after the fact and after the decision has been made is just how humans can work.

I just had a dream where this lady and I kissed. Yes, i feel happy about that (YES it was G-rated get your mind out of the gutter ) Should I go rush out and tell her? NO! No no and no again. I shared that because it's an example of feeling emotion (which is the human thing to do) but NOT letting myself act irrationally because of it.

^ In summary:

Humans can be driven by Heart to act. Passions can drive us. Both give us the motivation/will/drive, the Internal Fire to act.

NOW. That does not meant that we should act irrationally. I know from my life what happens when I act irrationality. Been there, done that. Felt things but acted in a wrong way because of them. Instead of just enjoying the feelings and making the decision to not act irrationally because of them.

I believe that people can feel emotions (ya know, because we're human) but we cannot let ourselves act irrationality. I've been there. Where I should've just enjoyed feelings but not to act irrationally because of them.

And if the Jedi don't like that then tough

PS: As to that lady who I had that G-rated kiss with in that dream last night. Do I feel happy that I got to kiss (in a dream) this beautiful young lady who i like a lot? Most definitely. YET I cannot act on it by telling her. There are two main reasons why I cannot act irrationally and tell her:

Reason ONE It would probably freak her out and I don't want to hurt her like that.

Reason TWO: I do not want to start anything when I'm about to go off to Basic (Yes, in real life.) Say she and I kiss in real life...and then I have to leave soon for Basic. It doesn't seem right to kiss her, start a relationship potentially, and then just leave after starting a new relationship.

Because that would mess with her heart and I don't want to injure her like that. Because I care about her and don't want to wound her by kissing her, starting a relationship, and then just up and leave for several months. Oh, and I probably won't be back to the area where I live now cause I will be posted on a base elsewhere.

I believe the Jedi Order in SW:TOR is a seriously stiff arsed and annoying interpretation. That should not keep the player from playing their characters their own way of course.

This. I think TOR decided to go with a very annoying interpretation, because they said "If we make the Sith all about Passion, we can have Jedi's be the total opposite"

And the Jedi order isn't against emotion. It teaches controlling them, thus the rules they have, because a force user who can't control their emotions is a dangerous individual. More dangerous than a pissed off smuggler/bounty hunter with a blaster.

Of course that's a little hard to convey in a game where they want to make every player equal. It's the difference between the Star Wars storyline and making Star Wars a game.

This. I think TOR decided to go with a very annoying interpretation, because they said "If we make the Sith all about Passion, we can have Jedi's be the total opposite"

 

And the Jedi order isn't against emotion. It teaches controlling them, thus the rules they have, because a force user who can't control their emotions is a dangerous individual. More dangerous than a pissed off smuggler/bounty hunter with a blaster.

 

Of course that's a little hard to convey in a game where they want to make every player equal. It's the difference between the Star Wars storyline and making Star Wars a game.

Exactly! Well said. That is a great point about the danger of a force-user who can't keep their emotions in check. So they know how to handle them. So someone in the Jedi Order (Padawan, Knight, Master) doesn't "fly off the handle" while having the ability use the Force at the same time.

There are several instances on Tython that speak against it.

 

The Jedi Consular may ask one of the holograms on the very first class mission (retrieve the holograms) "What about compassion?" or something like that, and the hologram replies that a Jedi must always be completely impartial and must not get emotionally involved or something like that.

 

Later there is a conversation there is a situation with a padawan, tasked to lift a heavy boulder using the Force and getting caught while receiving help from you. Depending on what you answer the Padawan gets expelled (a pretty extreme measure, if you asked) and if you then notice that you feel pity the master answers that such an emotion would be infit for a Jedi as well and that again one should be completely neutral.

 

I believe the Jedi Order in SW:TOR is a seriously stiff arsed and annoying interpretation. That should not keep the player from playing their characters their own way of course.

Those holograms are tens of thousands of years old. They aren't part of the present day Jedi Order. And the padawan that was told to lift the boulder is not "expelled" but he is judged as being unqualified to be a Jedi Knight. The point the Ithorian Master was making was that just because you feel sorry for him doesn't make him more qualified. You can't be made a Jedi out of pity. In many other cases the Masters of the Jedi Order will say that compassion and patience are what make you an exceptionally good Jedi.

Those holograms are tens of thousands of years old. They aren't part of the present day Jedi Order. And the padawan that was told to lift the boulder is not "expelled" but he is judged as being unqualified to be a Jedi Knight. The point the Ithorian Master was making was that just because you feel sorry for him doesn't make him more qualified. You can't be made a Jedi out of pity. In many other cases the Masters of the Jedi Order will say that compassion and patience are what make you an exceptionally good Jedi.

This seems to me like a fairly deliberate mis-reading of what's going on in those missions. The NPCs tell you flatly that compassion is problematic for the jedi because it impairs their judgment.

Also in the setting being depicted in the game the republic is supposed to be seen as being in a corrupt/crumbling-under-its-own-weight state, and that extends to the jedi order as much as anything; to some extent we're meant to chafe at the staid, formulaic expression of the code as expressed ingame.

With that said, any moral code which forbids love (romantic or platonic) should probably not be used as a guide for human behavior.

This seems to me like a fairly deliberate mis-reading of what's going on in those missions. The NPCs tell you flatly that compassion is problematic for the jedi because it impairs their judgment.

 

Also in the setting being depicted in the game the republic is supposed to be seen as being in a corrupt/crumbling-under-its-own-weight state, and that extends to the jedi order as much as anything; to some extent we're meant to chafe at the staid, formulaic expression of the code as expressed ingame.

 

With that said, any moral code which forbids love (romantic or platonic) should probably not be used as a guide for human behavior.

I see nothing wrong with that code. The problem is, in the SW universe, you really only have two options for learning to use your force abilities and both are extreme exact opposites. With any other ideals being considered wrong/rebelious and not really getting a chance to be a part of those lesser known orders.

This seems to me like a fairly deliberate mis-reading of what's going on in those missions. The NPCs tell you flatly that compassion is problematic for the jedi because it impairs their judgment.

No, just appreciation of the context. The whole situation is about whether Flingeld is capable of being a Jedi or not. If he isn't qualified, then having pity won't change that.

No, just appreciation of the context. The whole situation is about whether Flingeld is capable of being a Jedi or not. If he isn't qualified, then having pity won't change that.

The statement the master gives is clearly not limited to the situation at hand - he considers pity categorically inappropriate for a Jedi.

Ideal form for a Jedi is to achiev a droid mindset and break the chains of emotions, to always act acoording to logic, reason and rationality ( although SW lore is based on contradiction, who rational would serve, whats worse serve democracy, madness )

This source that Aurbere posted would seem to contradict that:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=579869

""There is no Emotion, there is Peace"

Surely this means that a Jedi should be emotionless, yes? No. This line refers to a Jedi's clarity of mind. Odan-Urr believed that emotions were necessary for the Jedi to have, but understood that these emotions should not interfere with the decisions a Jedi makes.

The actions of a single Jedi can impact the entire galaxy, and emotion can influence the decisions a Jedi makes. So Odan-Urr taught meditation to his students. Meditation allowed them to control their emotions and maintain clarity of mind, but he did not teach Jedi to ignore or purge them. He taught mastery over emotion: the first step to mastery of the Light Side."

Even Obi-won says to Anakin that he must learn to control his emotions; control is NOT the same as purge.