The way things stand at the moment, the only pvp in the game that doesn't have gear issues or big gear gap is pre 70 pvp.

It doesn't seem to matter what lvl your gear is, as long as you have every slot filled, you will Bolster close to what ever Bolster is set at for pre 70.

The only gear that has an advantage is 208 pvp bonus gear. But now lots of people have hit 70, there aren't as many around.

For me it is the only pvp that I don't even have to think about gear. It's pure skill vs skill, the way pvp is supposed to be.

Sure there can be ability imbalance and some could say skill imbalance, except the skill imbalance isn't really any different to the skill imbalance in lvl 70. Some people will have a few extra abilities and some less, but it balances out as you lvl up. If anything I think the skill is getting a bit better in mids than lvl 70 because those people in mids are learning faster than people getting stomped by gear imbalance.

I've put my lvl 70s on the shelf and gone back to lvling up my other 32 Alts. I've got them in both brackets at different lvls and I'm actually enjoying pvp again. So I may resub, I'm still thinking about it, but if I do and get my favourites to 70 and Bio still haven't fixed the gearing, I'll be gone for good.

So if you want some fun pvp and not have to stress about the gear issues, come play some mids or lowbies, it's actually refreshing.

Lastly, I've noticed since 5.0/5.1 that lvling in pvp has slowed down a bit. Now that there is no bonus XP happening, you don't go through lvls as fast. This can only be good for pvp. The more time people spend in sub 70 pvp, the better they'll be at lvl 70.

The way things stand at the moment, the only pvp in the game that doesn't have gear issues or big gear gap is pre 70 pvp.

It doesn't seem to matter what lvl your gear is, as long as you have every slot filled, you will Bolster close to what ever Bolster is set at for pre 70.

The only gear that has an advantage is 208 pvp bonus gear. But now lots of people have hit 70, there aren't as many around.

For me it is the only pvp that I don't even have to think about gear. It's pure skill vs skill, the way pvp is supposed to be.

Sure there can be ability imbalance and some could say skill imbalance, except the skill imbalance isn't really any different to the skill imbalance in lvl 70. Some people will have a few extra abilities and some less, but it balances out as you lvl up. If anything I think the skill is getting a bit better in mids than lvl 70 because those people in mids are learning faster than people getting stomped by gear imbalance.

I've put my lvl 70s on the shelf and gone back to lvling up my other 32 Alts. I've got them in both brackets at different lvls and I'm actually enjoying pvp again. So I may resub, I'm still thinking about it, but if I do and get my favourites to 70 and Bio still haven't fixed the gearing, I'll be gone for good.

So if you want some fun pvp and not have to stress about the gear issues, come play some mids or lowbies, it's actually refreshing.

Lastly, I've noticed since 5.0/5.1 that lvling in pvp has slowed down a bit. Now that there is no bonus XP happening, you don't go through lvls as fast. This can only be good for pvp. The more time people spend in sub 70 pvp, the better they'll be at lvl 70.

Actually I first saw the DvL gear issue in midbies. Reported it back then and got told it was mibies bolster being strange, and didnt go back since.

But I leveled my sniper 65-70 in midbies to change myself a bit from heroic (even tough its MUCH slower) and positively wrecked people with it.

Had ambushes critting in the high 40k, PB was ticking for near 8k, snipe and Followthrough 10-15k.

Also, the wide level range means some classes are there with their near full spec (or full spec minus ONE utility) and for some it does make a big difference. Many spec gets their goodies in legendary tier, and the 50-68 range.

As an exemple, a lvl 32 merc has TM and HSM, but no, no reflective shield, no Kolto Overload, their energy shield still isnt reseting 30 seconds later and its not healing on collapse either. A lvl 68 merc can probably take on 3 of them at once.

EDIT : Also it looks like some people are actually voluntarily keeping characters at lvl 69 and leaving the wz just before it ends to avoid getting xp, and keep farming? At least on my server I saw a few names that were pretty active when I leveled my sniper at the start of 5.0 in midbies, and they are still in midbies 2 months later, with the same toon at the same level (normally 68-69)

Actually I first saw the DvL gear issue in midbies. Reported it back then and got told it was mibies bolster being strange, and didnt go back since.

 

But I leveled my sniper 65-70 in midbies to change myself a bit from heroic (even tough its MUCH slower) and positively wrecked people with it.

 

Had ambushes critting in the high 40k, PB was ticking for near 8k, snipe and Followthrough 10-15k.

 

Also, the wide level range means some classes are there with their near full spec (or full spec minus ONE utility) and for some it does make a big difference. Many spec gets their goodies in legendary tier, and the 50-68 range.

 

As an exemple, a lvl 32 merc has TM and HSM, but no, no reflective shield, no Kolto Overload, their energy shield still isnt reseting 30 seconds later and its not healing on collapse either. A lvl 68 merc can probably take on 3 of them at once.

 

 

EDIT : Also it looks like some people are actually voluntarily keeping characters at lvl 69 and leaving the wz just before it ends to avoid getting xp, and keep farming? At least on my server I saw a few names that were pretty active when I leveled my sniper at the start of 5.0 in midbies, and they are still in midbies 2 months later, with the same toon at the same level (normally 68-69)

Lots of people lvling up don't have DVL gear. I've hardly seen any when I've played.

FYI, in my experience anyway gearing my operative healer, it did matter what *level* gear I had in those slots.

Pre 5.0 I checked several times, and I got pretty much the same bolster no matter whether I had level 10 gear, or level 60. However, I checked it again after 5.0. In mids, after I hit level 48, I swapped out my mostly-level-10 gear for level 48 (except relics, ear and implants), and my bolstered stats went up quite a bit.

These were the diffs...

Level 10 gear vs. Level 48 gear

damage : 2388-2412 vs 2725-2891

bonus damage : 2341 vs 2393

tech bonus damage : 2377 vs. 2660

bonus heal : 1688 vs 1897

pics, top picture is level 48 gear (http://imgur.com/a/PYR6i)

FYI, in my experience anyway gearing my operative healer, it did matter what *level* gear I had in those slots.

 

Pre 5.0 I checked several times, and I got pretty much the same bolster no matter whether I had level 10 gear, or level 60. However, I checked it again after 5.0. In mids, after I hit level 48, I swapped out my mostly-level-10 gear for level 48 (except relics, ear and implants), and my bolstered stats went up quite a bit.

 

These were the diffs...

 

Level 10 gear vs. Level 48 gear

damage : 2388-2412 vs 2725-2891

bonus damage : 2341 vs 2393

tech bonus damage : 2377 vs. 2660

bonus heal : 1688 vs 1897

 

pics, top picture is level 48 gear (http://imgur.com/a/PYR6i)

Well that's new

Maybe it does matter a little now and you need to try a little with gear. But you did go from lvl 10 items to lvl 48 and the difference isn't as massive you'd think. It will be interesting to see if there will be much difference when you go up from lvl 48 gear.

Might be worth mucking around with some gear as you lvl up.

When I start lvling up some of my lowbies again, I'll muck around with it and see what happens.

Well that's new

 

Maybe it does matter a little now and you need to try a little with gear. But you did go from lvl 10 items to lvl 48 and the difference isn't as massive you'd think. It will be interesting to see if there will be much difference when you go up from lvl 48 gear.

Might be worth mucking around with some gear as you lvl up.

When I start lvling up some of my lowbies again, I'll muck around with it and see what happens.

Yes on "not as massive as you'd think", except definitely significant. I computed it to be about a 10% increase in "bonus healing". And from 15-20% in damage.

Also I did the same thing when I got in the 60s, and put in... er, 210 greens I think? I saw another stat increase. I didn't record it that time though. But it definitely made a noticeable difference in my healing output (and I know I did not suddenly become a better healer).

Then I dinged 70, so I'm now caught in the Eternal Grind.

Although, I have been thinking about going back and playing my beloved tanks in mids. I don't even want to THINK about trying to gear them @ 70, but in mids for a while... hmm...

Yes on "not as massive as you'd think", except definitely significant. I computed it to be about a 10% increase in "bonus healing". And from 15-20% in damage.

 

Also I did the same thing when I got in the 60s, and put in... er, 210 greens I think? I saw another stat increase. I didn't record it that time though. But it definitely made a noticeable difference in my healing output (and I know I did not suddenly become a better healer).

 

Then I dinged 70, so I'm now caught in the Eternal Grind.

 

Although, I have been thinking about going back and playing my beloved tanks in mids. I don't even want to THINK about trying to gear them @ 70, but in mids for a while... hmm...

Seems Bioware are really mixing it up now and going back to pre 4.0 gearing for mids. At least it's cheap to gear up in mids and I'm guessing you only need to do it every 4 lvls.

Gear aside, are you sure you didn't become a better healer

You never know, if you've been grinding through pvp as you lvl up, then you're bound to get better as you get higher.

Plus you start getting better utilities and passives when you get to about 60.

every level while leveling your stats get "weighted" heavier. you may notice if you have crit 35% for example then level up and it will go to crit 34%. it takes more stat points to reach the same % because gear of that level has more points available.

Yes that is very true, thanks for pointing that out. That's way it used to work before 4.0.

The higher you get, the harder it can be to balance secondary stats. If you put too much power in, etc, it can reduce those other stats.

I'm glad you brought this up because I have noticed quite a few people in my guild sticking to lowbies and midbies for the reasons you mentioned. It's more "accessible" to the casual player. Now also as mentioned gear is becoming more of a factor in these tiers but yes it's far easier and far more inexpensive to gear up a toon for lowbies or midbies with a much greater return on that investment in terms of having fun.

But yes now in lowbies to some extent and midbies to a much larger extent you do have to pay a lot more attention to your gear and even who you are grouping with because with so many people sticking to the lower tiers you are also starting to see them group up into premades and as we all know they best way to level the playing field against a premade is to have one of your own. I know there are people in my guild who focus on gearing their lowbies just like someone would for 70's regs and they definitely kick butt in their respective tier the same way.

So here's what I would say about the issue: Bioware seems to have created a situation where a portion of the community has had to find a workaround to make the game fun for them. Why not just adjust the system to accommodate what the community wants? Wz's are a quick and easy thing that people can do together as a guild or with some buddies and PvP is one thing that attracts people to online games so I think they have a lot of potential but with the current system it's impossible to imagine any kind of recovery in the PvP community as a whole unless there's an option other than a workaround for people who want to do wz's on a casual basis.

I dislike the current gearing system, and I've advocated some numbers suggesting the difference between 232 and 242 isn't as small as some people would have you believe, but I just can't get behind the hyperbole that it's ruining PVP or is at the top of the list making it unbalanced.

The amount of advantage you can gain by just being better than other players or playing better classes/specs than them is so large that the only circumstances where gear is likely to tip the scales one way or another is when two almost identically equally skilled groups of players playing equally good classes are up against one another.

Also, lets address another myth here. Gear in lowbies is not even remotely balanced. Players rocking old PVP gear are often going to have far more of the all important crit rating stat, in addition to a set bonus. And they are also less likely to be missing abilities that are essential to proper performance for a class and/or spec. The 65-69 midbies with set bonuses absolutely DOMINATE the midbie bracket. To suggest the difference at 70 between bolstered players and 242 geared players (of which there are relatively few) is larger is just not correct.

Personally I'm mostly just annoyed that I feel like I am perpetually trapped in the gearing phase of the game.

When I start lvling up some of my lowbies again, I'll muck around with it and see what happens.

This is why we need you and people like you. Someone's gotta figure this nonsense out.

This is why we need you and people like you. Someone's gotta figure this nonsense out.

I've unsubbed over this rubbish Bioware have dumped on us and it runs out on the 5th Feb. I'll see what I can do before then.

I'm still considering resuming and just playing around in mids till they fix this disaster of an expansion. But I'll atleast stay unsubbed for a few weeks so it adds to what ever data they "should" be collecting on people Unsubbing. I think it's the only form of protest left to me. It's obvious they don't pay attention to us on the forums or even PMs you send to them.

I dislike the current gearing system, and I've advocated some numbers suggesting the difference between 232 and 242 isn't as small as some people would have you believe, but I just can't get behind the hyperbole that it's ruining PVP or is at the top of the list making it unbalanced.

 

The amount of advantage you can gain by just being better than other players or playing better classes/specs than them is so large that the only circumstances where gear is likely to tip the scales one way or another is when two almost identically equally skilled groups of players playing equally good classes are up against one another.

 

Also, lets address another myth here. Gear in lowbies is not even remotely balanced. Players rocking old PVP gear are often going to have far more of the all important crit rating stat, in addition to a set bonus. And they are also less likely to be missing abilities that are essential to proper performance for a class and/or spec. The 65-69 midbies with set bonuses absolutely DOMINATE the midbie bracket. To suggest the difference at 70 between bolstered players and 242 geared players (of which there are relatively few) is larger is just not correct.

 

Personally I'm mostly just annoyed that I feel like I am perpetually trapped in the gearing phase of the game.

I agree that while the gap is large it doesn't hurt regs too much. However, it really is an issue in solo ranked. There are people that were stuck around 1400 after hundreds of matches played and weren't a threat in 5.0 that are now rating up fast and are a threat. These weren't "bad" players (gear can't help them) but they weren't very good either.

Also, gear really affects the bursts classes. Maras that were mediocre are now good, good are very good, and great are just destroying people.

Problem is that most experienced PVPer no longer play low -/midbies, and the general quality is even worse than before. On the flip side, that also mean less premades, so it's a toss up I guess. And it's both sides that a severely lacking in.... everything.

Stuff like this: http://i.imgur.com/09zraAz.jpg

Problem is that most experienced PVPer no longer play low -/midbies, and the general quality is even worse than before. On the flip side, that also mean less premades, so it's a toss up I guess. And it's both sides that a severely lacking in.... everything.

 

Stuff like this: http://i.imgur.com/09zraAz.jpg

The quality isn't that great at lvl 70 either. The quality is lacking in the whole of pvp these days, but atleast there seems to be newer people coming through

The quality isn't that great at lvl 70 either. The quality is lacking in the whole of pvp these days, but atleast there seems to be newer people coming through

And solo ranked. I had a juggernaut tank yesterday that told me "2-3k health doesn't make a difference" when I slightly berated him for having less HP then me. I was on my operative. He was tunneled like you wouldn't believe. Or perhaps you would. Had a another jugg tank in the very next match with basically similar terrible stats.

Imagine how great it would be, if they separated PVP complete from the game, and made a SWTOR PVP league in a different game. Would be sweet.

And solo ranked. I had a juggernaut tank yesterday that told me "2-3k health doesn't make a difference" when I slightly berated him for having less HP then me. I was on my operative. He was tunneled like you wouldn't believe. Or perhaps you would. Had a another jugg tank in the very next match with basically similar terrible stats.

 

Imagine how great it would be, if they separated PVP complete from the game, and made a SWTOR PVP league in a different game. Would be sweet.

A bit like Overwatch

magine how great it would be, if they separated PVP complete from the game, and made a SWTOR PVP league in a different game. Would be sweet.

Sometimes i like to dream about blizzard made swtor. It could easily be the most succesfull game ever

Sometimes i like to dream about blizzard made swtor. It could easily be the most succesfull game ever

That's finally something we can agree on 😘

Sometimes i like to dream about blizzard made swtor. It could easily be the most succesfull game ever

I would be partial to blizzard being the one to do it, but I'd take a variety of companies actually committed to consistently pumping out quality end game content and balance changes.

A proper star wars MMO is a *********** gold mine, and it sort of makes me wish this one would die so a company that is actually going to at least try could pick up the torch.

I would be partial to blizzard being the one to do it, but I'd take a variety of companies actually committed to consistently pumping out quality end game content and balance changes.

 

A proper star wars MMO is a *********** gold mine, and it sort of makes me wish this one would die so a company that is actually going to at least try could pick up the torch.

EA would need to lose the licensing rights that Disney has given them for the foreseeable future

EA would need to lose the licensing rights that Disney has given them for the foreseeable future

EA isn't the problem and given SWTOR is the second incarnation of a Star Wars MMO- a theme park is a gold mine, a traditional MMO- where Star Wars nets the crowds is stories otherwise, you're just drawing from the MMO crowd after the initial Star Wars fans check it out and they don't last forever.

The problem is who is currently assigned to running SWTOR and the fact EA need to suck up the bad publicity and intervene. I can't blame EA for Bioware-esque style 'we know what we're going- gamers are judgemental morons who don't know what's good for them so respect our artistic integrity and applaud our talent' which galls me because for a company that has made good games over the years, they do attract some egomaniac control freaks who drive them into the ground because they 'can't be wrong' and put them in positions of power.

And if I get censored for writing that, it's because it hits close to home.