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"Mandalorian Fist" 21/23/2 PvP Tank/DPS Hybrid

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
"Mandalorian Fist" 21/23/2 PvP Tank/DPS Hybrid

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
05.01.2013 , 08:16 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Brunner_Venda View Post
In the end, it's more likely that you're just a really good player who would do even better with a dedicated shield, AP, or pyro. Maybe this suits your play style better, but it probably won't for anyone else.
I would not deny, i do better with the other two dps specs. And I only run full ST on PvE. You are right, it is a personal preference. I have always loved to run a tanky dps in PvP with the ability to protect allies and do damage, as long as it works. I agree that most hybrids are inferior to full specs, but sometimes playing a hybrid spec is better because it provides more versatility to the team.
Hankk Dubs
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UncleOst's Avatar


UncleOst
05.09.2013 , 10:13 PM | #12
Grouped with Sef tonight. Saw how he contributed to the team firsthand. Bumping this up because Sef is a beast, regardless of spec.

Sardonyyx's Avatar


Sardonyyx
05.13.2013 , 12:29 PM | #13
Again with the cute little names. Good god.


Stop hybriding the powertech, it's not a class that's meant to hybrid anymore, the nerf made damn well sure of that. You're not useful to any wz as a hybrid tank pt. you're like two halves of a person. Two halves that don't perform as well as a whole one could. you just want protection medals in wz's.


Only acceptable time to hybrid is huttball, because of our lack of mobility, jet charge is useful. Any other time, you're just wasting space.

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
05.13.2013 , 03:07 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Sardonyyx View Post
Again with the cute little names. Good god.


Stop hybriding the powertech, it's not a class that's meant to hybrid anymore, the nerf made damn well sure of that. You're not useful to any wz as a hybrid tank pt. you're like two halves of a person. Two halves that don't perform as well as a whole one could. you just want protection medals in wz's.


Only acceptable time to hybrid is huttball, because of our lack of mobility, jet charge is useful. Any other time, you're just wasting space.

You surely don't expect a hybrid to be better than a full spec at its role. The idea of hybriding is getting the goodies to run a viable spec that has synergy with its talent skills.

Protection medals are easy to get with taunts. So that is not the point of speccing to IGC.

I have done extensive testing with this spec and would therefore conclude that it is not viable in rateds. On the other hand, It will still continue to be viable solo running or with pre-made teams in regular WZs.

I currently run full ST now as it also covers higher level of play and will not be updating this spec anymore.
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OldSpiceSwag's Avatar


OldSpiceSwag
08.06.2013 , 09:59 PM | #15
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc/#3...ZrsrrobRRzGr.3

my friend plays something like that in ion cell. tankier and more damage.

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
08.07.2013 , 08:27 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by OldSpiceSwag View Post
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc/#3...ZrsrrobRRzGr.3

my friend plays something like that in ion cell. tankier and more damage.
It is way more tankier i believe. However, not picking-up jet charge and flame surge will give you heat problems than my spec if you want to maximize the use of PFT. Flame surge is important in my hybrid to get the 2 stacks of PFT without even producing any heat. Mine has more mobility too due to a gap closer with increased up-time of guarding and dealing damage.
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JaredBartok's Avatar


JaredBartok
08.15.2013 , 10:25 AM | #17
So while I've always enjoyed playing powertech DPS/Tank hybrids in PVP, I can't argue with the theme that they are all suboptimal compared to full specs in current warzones.

HOWEVER, I am thinking that the revelation yesterday about solo queue ranked arenas might finally resurrect the usefulness of this type of spec. Of course, this might also be crazy for some reason I haven't thought about.

The twist in this idea vs. the OP's Mandalorian Fist build is that you actually try to make the hybrid as tanky as possible with great utility, using tank gear instead of DPS gear (for the most part), but making sure to have a 23/23/0 build. You get a very solid, but suboptimal, tank with enhanced utility and better DPS than a full-specced tank. The key to this is that by entering the solo queue ranked arenas, you get offset by a DPS instead of a tank on the other team (with a 23/23/0 build, DPS is the default role for queuing). Ideally, as a very serviceable tank you get to keep your healer alive long enough to allow your two DPS enough time to kill their healer that doesn't have a tank to guard them. Even in other group compositions (no healers or extra tank on each side), I would think that having a tank advantage vs. the other team would generally be a benefit in TDM.

So here's the build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#30...RoMZrsbrobRR.3

Downsides vs. full tank build: No heat screen/blast, no shoulder cannon heal, no enhanced kolto overload, no 4% defense, no flame sweep slow and no jet charge speed boost

Benefits vs. full tank build: Short stun cooldown, short interrupt cooldown, PFT, RB and numerous other DPS improvements

Spec options: Can choose between longer hydraulic overrides or RB slow (this is the one point I am not sold on). If heat management and/or aoe become less important in arenas and movement/kiting become more important, you could also swap Flame Surge for Jet Speed. Also, we might have the option of swapping into DPS gear if the situation calls for it, and I wouldn't be shocked if the DPS is competitive in TDM arenas even though the burst is poor. Lastly, perhaps even taking pneumatic boots might make sense so you could switch into HEG cylinder mid-match for a speed boost in certain situations (think about the ability to kite with jet speed, torque boosters and pneumatic boots!).

So I am fascinated by the potential of this build. I'm very interested to hear if people see a major flaw that I haven't thought of, or if I might really have something here (that can probably be improved with suggestions).

It's a bit of a non-sequitor since it applies to all powertechs, but I am also excited about the increased usefulness of stealth scan since all I hear about is how arenas are going to be filled with all-stealth groups. Overall, I hoping for the resurgence of Powertechs for PVP in 2.4, vindicating all of us die-hards that stuck through the hard times.

af_raptura's Avatar


af_raptura
08.15.2013 , 12:18 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JaredBartok View Post
Overall, I hoping for the resurgence of Powertechs for PVP in 2.4, vindicating all of us die-hards that stuck through the hard times.
Without some game changing class rebalance, I fear this hope is misplaced.
PvE theorycrafting has really loosened their standards.
Quote: Originally Posted by karlwaite View Post
As for the skill changes to benefit pvp likes of the fly by damage reduction they suffered and reducing focused defence by 200% is a joke they are affecting pve to benefit pvp.

dijskykiller's Avatar


dijskykiller
08.15.2013 , 03:23 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by JaredBartok View Post
So while I've always enjoyed playing powertech DPS/Tank hybrids in PVP, I can't argue with the theme that they are all suboptimal compared to full specs in current warzones.

HOWEVER, I am thinking that the revelation yesterday about solo queue ranked arenas might finally resurrect the usefulness of this type of spec. Of course, this might also be crazy for some reason I haven't thought about.

The twist in this idea vs. the OP's Mandalorian Fist build is that you actually try to make the hybrid as tanky as possible with great utility, using tank gear instead of DPS gear (for the most part), but making sure to have a 23/23/0 build. You get a very solid, but suboptimal, tank with enhanced utility and better DPS than a full-specced tank. The key to this is that by entering the solo queue ranked arenas, you get offset by a DPS instead of a tank on the other team (with a 23/23/0 build, DPS is the default role for queuing). Ideally, as a very serviceable tank you get to keep your healer alive long enough to allow your two DPS enough time to kill their healer that doesn't have a tank to guard them. Even in other group compositions (no healers or extra tank on each side), I would think that having a tank advantage vs. the other team would generally be a benefit in TDM.

So here's the build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#30...RoMZrsbrobRR.3

Downsides vs. full tank build: No heat screen/blast, no shoulder cannon heal, no enhanced kolto overload, no 4% defense, no flame sweep slow and no jet charge speed boost

Benefits vs. full tank build: Short stun cooldown, short interrupt cooldown, PFT, RB and numerous other DPS improvements

Spec options: Can choose between longer hydraulic overrides or RB slow (this is the one point I am not sold on). If heat management and/or aoe become less important in arenas and movement/kiting become more important, you could also swap Flame Surge for Jet Speed. Also, we might have the option of swapping into DPS gear if the situation calls for it, and I wouldn't be shocked if the DPS is competitive in TDM arenas even though the burst is poor. Lastly, perhaps even taking pneumatic boots might make sense so you could switch into HEG cylinder mid-match for a speed boost in certain situations (think about the ability to kite with jet speed, torque boosters and pneumatic boots!).

So I am fascinated by the potential of this build. I'm very interested to hear if people see a major flaw that I haven't thought of, or if I might really have something here (that can probably be improved with suggestions).

It's a bit of a non-sequitor since it applies to all powertechs, but I am also excited about the increased usefulness of stealth scan since all I hear about is how arenas are going to be filled with all-stealth groups. Overall, I hoping for the resurgence of Powertechs for PVP in 2.4, vindicating all of us die-hards that stuck through the hard times.
I ran this 23/23/0 variance of this spec too. Same with the spec you posted, but i moved 1 point from hydraulic shield to supercharged ion gas as we won't be running this spec with heavy shield stat and the aoe slow looks better for team-play for me. I also dropped blood tracker for hot iron because i don't want to be stuck opening with RB all the time since the bread and butter of this spec is revolving in PFT, we will spend more time flame bursting and sweeping. Just my 2 cents.
Hankk Dubs
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JaredBartok's Avatar


JaredBartok
08.15.2013 , 04:04 PM | #20
Thanks Sef! I love the suggested changes and will adopt them myself. This also supports my decision to take torque boosters over hamstring. Even though I was planning to have a shield heavy gear set (per your guide, prioritizing END > SHD > ABS > DEF), you are still right that we'll rarely have time to fit in extra RPs in between PFTs. Would you think it preferable to use a DPS gear set (with a shield offhand) to a tank set in solo queue ranked arenas, or did I misinterpret your comment?

Also, if you are already cutting out blood tracker, do you think there is any sense to cut retractable blade entirely and put those points into pneumatic boots? Would the occasional/situational utility of a 15% speed boost and a 5% elemental damage boost by switching cylinders offset the loss of RB that you'll rarely use anyway?