I've had a few discussions about Madness vs. Lightning Sorc(he's convinced Lightning is the better spec) with a fellow guild member and whenever I bring up parses he argues that they don't reflect 'real-world' situations and thus can't be relied upon. I.e having to cc targets renders death field, one of Madness' main skills, useless while Lightning can still spam Thundering Blaster.

 

 

TL;DR how effective at gauging 'true' dps is parsing?

 

Slightly unrelated, but which is the better spec and why?

I would think that, being more of a dot spec, madness would come out ahead on longer fights or fights with a lot of movement.

 

Since that pretty much describes the majority of the fights in the current ops, I'd say madness is better, even from a "real-world" perspective.

 

That being said, a very well played lightning spec should still be competitive over the course of an entire ops. And on a dummy parse, lightning might well come out slightly ahead.

 

In response to the TL;DR question: Parsing is a good guide to see how you're performing relative to other players of your class and/or gear level. But they do need to be taken with a big grain of salt when comparing class balance.

Edited August 27, 2014 by soulseekerr

To answer your Tl;dr, parsing means nothing if a player cannot execute mechanics. However if a player can parse higher in one spec than another and execute mechanics, then the choice is clear.

 

There seems to be a lot of misinformation on both sides of your argument. Allow me to lay out some facts.

 

In general terms, Madness is the sustained single target dps spec while Lightning has more on demand burst with a higher AoE potential. What this means is that each of them have their uses and neither of them are "better" than the other.

 

Madness currently parses higher on the dummy and also higher on fights that are predominantly single target with low frequency of target switching. However for certain fights, it is very difficult to maintain both dps and your Force pool due to the spec being naturally Force negative if played correctly. For add heavy fights with no downtime in between, this spec will suffer simply due to the Force constraints. Mobility is excellent in Madness as there are quite a few instants and the only channel can be broken and continued as needed. This is an overall simple spec to get good results from, but in order to get great results, great timing is needed in order to play correctly. Survivability of this spec is decent due to the built in self heals, but not great compared to other classes

 

Lightning is a far more forgiving spec in terms of Force management and prior to 2.8 parsed somewhat higher than Madness. Target switching is easy and the AoE is built into the rotation. For add heavy fights, this or the Lightning/Madness hybrid (personally I dislike that spec but meh) are far superior. In addition, this spec has greater on demand burst potential than most specs in the game and far greater than Madness. In addition the potential for off-healing and application of the all important Static Barrier are easily done allowing the player to perform a more utility role in addition to their dps duties. Survivability is low in this spec simply due to the lack of legit cooldowns native to Sorcs.

 

Which specs are better for which boss?

 

Dread Fortress

Nefra - Madness: This is a pure sustained fight. Additionally, you take less DoT damage in Madness. Lightning can keep up, but this boss is a joke anyway.

Draxus - Lightning: Lots of target swaps and a ton of AoE potential make Lightning the clear cut choice here. Proponents of Madness will say multidotting can make the spec competitive, but it is far more taxing on the player and generally leads to worse results.

Grob'thok - Madness again, this is mostly a single target boss but with the removal of Nightmare Power, the need for AoE is higher. Lightning could be preferred if the player's group composition is particularly light on AoE damage, bur Madness is definitely superior.

Corruptor Zero - Lightning is most definitely better, with lots of target swaps and a lot of AoE potential, the innate abilities of Lightning shine. Madness will likely be Force starved towards the end of the fight unless proper care is taken to maintain Force.

Brontes - Madness, no doubt about it, the survivability and mobility of Madness place it far higher up the pecking order than Lightning. While there are phases with target swaps, things are alive long enough that Madness can get off enough dps to keep up. Lightning could be used if the player's group composition lacks sufficient burst for the clockwork phase, but the group has other problems if that's the case.

 

Dread Palace

Bestia - Depending on group strategy and player skill, this can be done in either spec. Madness will have a tough time maintaining Force, but so long as they focus primarily on enemies with relatively long lifespans the spec is very good for this fight. If your group stacks up Monsters on top of Tentacles or Larvae, then Lightning's AoE prowess will be superior or if the player has a tough time managing Force during this fight.

Tyrans - Madness, DoT damage resistance and superior mobility make this the only spec that should be used on this boss. Lightning can help with off-heals and bubbles as needed but suffers greatly due to the movement and outgoing damage.

Calphayus - This is a toss up. Madness can be competitive as there is quite a bit of downtime for sustaining Force and the enemies that show up are alive for enough time that most of the damage potential from Madness is reached. Lightning brings better target swapping and somewhat better burst but will overall make the sustained parts of this fight last longer. Play what you want here.

Raptus - Madness is much better here as again each add that shows up is alive for long enough that Madness reaches its damage potential. Lightning can be used here however the majority of this fight is sustained with some need for mobility, so Madness wins out.

Council - Madness. It is recommended for survivability reasons to not use Lightning along with every dps check in this being sustained related and not burst. Additionally playing Madness here allows for the possibility of kiting Raptus if there are not better options in the raid group.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Mr_Fuzzle

There isn't one argument against parsing. If he won't parse it's because he's afraid it will show him to be a ****** player, that's it.

 

Tell him to parse or he can't raid with you guys.

Telling the guild leader that he can't raid with us would probably end up getting me kicked lol. Thanks to Mr_Fuzzle for the amazingly detailed answer.

Telling the guild leader that he can't raid with us would probably end up getting me kicked lol. Thanks to Mr_Fuzzle for the amazingly detailed answer.

 

It sounds like you're in an extremely ****** guild and should find one better. You deserve it!

There isn't one argument against parsing. If he won't parse it's because he's afraid it will show him to be a ****** player, that's it.

 

Tell him to parse or he can't raid with you guys.

 

There are valid arguments against parsing. Main goal of a raid, WZ, whatever, is to WIN. Several classes *shine* where parsing does not show it.

There are valid arguments against parsing. Main goal of a raid, WZ, whatever, is to WIN. Several classes *shine* where parsing does not show it.

 

There are exactly zero arguments AGAINST parsing. It is extremely useful for practicing rotations. However it should not be taken as the word of law. Some people can parse perfectly but when thrown into a raid situation they cannot perform up to snuff. However someone wanting to practice their rotation has no ill effects. End of story.

You can't ride a bicycle before learning with training wheels first. Doing legitimate content without learning to parse well first is like leaping onto a bike for the first time and just trying to ride it. Disastrous results will ensue. At the same time, one can't ride a bike with training wheels and automatically assume that he can ride a regular bike.

 

This is to say, you cannot DPS correctly without learning your rotation on the parsing dummy first, BUT parsing is a flawed mode of measurement itself, it doesn't account for several influencing factors namely uptime, group comp, on demand burst, mechanics, and well, the risk of death.

 

All DPS should develop a friendly relationship with parsing, but not worship it.

Edited September 1, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

The dummy is for practice.

 

What you should do practice is every spec and know you are an expert in both options.

 

And what you should be able to do is look at a fight and be able to play the spec that is needed.

 

It's should not be madness vs lighting. It should be do you know how to play your class and all the options it has.

As Mr Fuzzle stated early in this thread, each fight changes what spec is best. Madness however does come out on top for single target DPS

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao-urXta1qC8dEFNTlMzVnJHVVpDNDUwZ3lmVkVOcWc&usp=drive_web#gid=9

 

But some mechanics make Lighting worth I, but I DOUBT with the current patch that you will see MANY sorc DPS in NiM raiding due to the survival issues, Armor does not sound like a major factor but it when a Merc or PT will take 16k damage from a TB when a sorc takes almost 30k you start to see that armor is quite a factor.

Well Sorc(I think it's all sorcs, not just healing) are getting a 20% armor buff so while I haven't done the math the comparison to merc with that +static barrier it should be comparable. Obviously +20% isn't heavy armor, but the divide won't get so great any more and 2.10 is hitting next week.

As Mr Fuzzle stated early in this thread, each fight changes what spec is best. Madness however does come out on top for single target DPS

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao-urXta1qC8dEFNTlMzVnJHVVpDNDUwZ3lmVkVOcWc&usp=drive_web#gid=9

 

But some mechanics make Lighting worth I, but I DOUBT with the current patch that you will see MANY sorc DPS in NiM raiding due to the survival issues, Armor does not sound like a major factor but it when a Merc or PT will take 16k damage from a TB when a sorc takes almost 30k you start to see that armor is quite a factor.

 

A merc will take a 16k TB in DP NiM 16m with NiM buff.

A sorc will take a 19k TB in DP NiM 16m with NiM buff.

 

Emphasis on that being damage from 16m, in 8m the damage is much lower and bringing a sorc is not an issue.

 

On top of that the NiM buff ends this Tuesday which means all damage taken will be reduced.