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Progression Double-Monetized in 6.0?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Progression Double-Monetized in 6.0?

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.15.2019 , 11:39 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
So? Going forward from here, it's just a number. Since the new crates are going to award relevant to your current gear score, instead of your rank, and you can't get that Renown until cap anyway. At that point, the end rewards will become Renown, and you'll still earn Conquest according to what the XP would have been. I can verify this last, since as an experiment, I used a Major XP boost on a capped toon, and went Conquest farming. The Conquest rewards were higher with the XP boost than w/out. The current Command XP boosts can be purchased on the Fleet, so I'd imagine that the new boosts will simply replace the old ones.

So, as monetization schemes go, this one is rather pathetic. Everything's tied to XP, and XP boosts are literally free. Other than epeen stroking, the "rank" in Renown is meaningless, so how fast, or slowly, one acquires it is irrelevant to gearing.
Free XP boosts are limited, thus their real-money sale. Our accumulation of them is only because haven't needed them post-70 until now.

The big 'So?' is Renown drops will likely feed end-game gearing with Amps, which the devs have cynically called 'optional' and 'not necessary.' Needing two simultaneous, compounding, monetized consumables to un-nerf your progression even after a subscription is a problem. A moral problem, I'd argue.

The rate at which we acquire Renown drops is almost certainly going to be a big, highly monetized, deal.

MacCleoud's Avatar


MacCleoud
06.15.2019 , 11:47 AM | #12
Or, you could just enjoy the game and play your way since Renown crates are SUPPLEMENTARY not the primary way of gearing.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
06.15.2019 , 12:04 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
Free XP boosts are limited, thus their real-money sale. Our accumulation of them is only because haven't needed them post-70 until now.

The big 'So?' is Renown drops will likely feed end-game gearing with Amps, which the devs have cynically called 'optional' and 'not necessary.' Needing two simultaneous, compounding, monetized consumables to un-nerf your progression even after a subscription is a problem. A moral problem, I'd argue.

The rate at which we acquire Renown drops is almost certainly going to be a big, highly monetized, deal.
I have 14 of them on one 70 character. How many do you suppose it's going to take to get to 75? 1?

I get it, I do: "But EA, but MDs, they're trying to milk us"... How many level 65 tokens did you buy? How many level 70 tokens did you buy? I bought 0 of either. I had one of each from sub rewards on appropriate content, I think, still have one that I can use, and I haven't used it... This despite rolling up a couple of new toons since I've been back this time around. Sorry, your arguments are invalid: Boosts to max level already exist, and the game isn't broken, and EA isn't raking in the loot on purchases of them, if the thread lamenting the nerf of Bug Hunt is to be believed, and haven't been, they've been around for a long time. The crates from this system are supplementary, the gear is going to drop all over the place, that's a pretty solid strike on monetization, unless you're going to start claiming they're going to start charging you to loot mobs?
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.15.2019 , 12:07 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by MacCleoud View Post
Or, you could just enjoy the game and play your way since Renown crates are SUPPLEMENTARY not the primary way of gearing.
Oh man. It's only supplementary if you buy the assertion that end-game gear is 'optional,' and 'not necessary.' That was one of the most cynical moves I've seen any developer make to head off criticism of end-game monetization.

We shouldn't let it go unchallenged. It's a moral problem. Both as game design, and community engagement.

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.15.2019 , 12:16 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
I have 14 of them on one 70 character. How many do you suppose it's going to take to get to 75? 1?
We'll need XP boosts forever, even at max level, because the boosted XP becomes the basis of your CXP award at max level. This will compound with CXP boosts, bringing the monetization of loot drops to new heights (or lows, morally speaking).

Re: mobs, do you believe the environment will be competitive with boosted Renown drops? I humbly submit it won't be in the same universe. By design.

And I couldn't disagree more about the long-time existence of monetized boosts. They've always been a problem, and a slap in the face to paying subscribers.

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.15.2019 , 01:20 PM | #16
Ugh. From the dev's Reddit AMA summary:

"A renown boost will effect ALL renown gains. This means there's a world where an XP and Renown boost work together, if that's your thing!"

Double-monetized progression confirmed. :/ Also, the Amps-as-optional claim was walked back a bit, as they ARE considered for balancing Master Mode operations.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
06.15.2019 , 01:40 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
We'll need XP boosts forever, even at max level, because the boosted XP becomes the basis of your CXP award at max level. This will compound with CXP boosts, bringing the monetization of loot drops to new heights (or lows, morally speaking).

Re: mobs, do you believe the environment will be competitive with boosted Renown drops? I humbly submit it won't be in the same universe. By design.

And I couldn't disagree more about the long-time existence of monetized boosts. They've always been a problem, and a slap in the face to paying subscribers.
No, we won't. Will some of us want them? Yes, they will, but we will not need them. I have the surplus I have now because during the entirety of the leveling process, from 1 to 70, I did not need them. Yes, it's tied to the mechanics, and yes, to your next post, there is a world where you could use both at the same time, but you will not "need" to.

Understand: While I'm not running a sub, I don't play, because I despise the way the monetization is thrown in your face. However, to complete the line of the little out of context snippet you provided: "if that's your thing". So for now, you're making a mountain out of a grain of sand. The boosters have never slapped me in the face, when did they slap you? Was it "Well, he can buy a way to play a capped toon w/out spending 3 days tops getting there"? You're so busy worrying about what someone else has that you don't see that you have it too? The one I have currently was free, to me.

Back to the reason I don't play while I'm not subbed: I can't take part in the end game, because w/out the sub, it's not available. So when I sub, any bonuses are just that, bonuses. That's why I resent discussing giving away bonuses for maintaining a sub, and why I don't see this as game breaking, or as a way to make EA richer. There will be those that buy them, boosts, XP boosts, etc. Then there are people like me that have ignored them for the entirety of their existence. If you are unable to do so, this is your issue, not an issue with how the game is provided to us. I already don't play when I am not subbed because I disagree with their model. So if I thought for one minute that this was any where near as intrusive as their F2P model, I'd speak up. I don't.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
06.15.2019 , 02:05 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Was it "Well, he can buy a way to play a capped toon w/out spending 3 days tops getting there"? You're so busy worrying about what someone else has that you don't see that you have it too?
No. It's the fact that optimal progression is withheld, in perpetuity, after paying $155.88, year over year, for a 'premium' experience.

These boosts aren't an inconspicuous leap to an easily achieved goal. The absence of them is a nerf on a subscribed player's gearing. Forever.

That's why these boosts are monetized.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
06.15.2019 , 09:03 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
No. It's the fact that optimal progression is withheld, in perpetuity, after paying $155.88, year over year, for a 'premium' experience.

These boosts aren't an inconspicuous leap to an easily achieved goal. The absence of them is a nerf on a subscribed player's gearing. Forever.

That's why these boosts are monetized.
You have that backwards. Try playing as preferred, and see what you get from your command crates, if you even get them. If you do, it'll be a message that says "If you were a sub, you could use this". You see, we get to equip any piece of gear, for our class, that we drop, as subs. If you're not a sub, then you have to either spend some money on CC, or some credits on the GTN to get the equipment authorization. You also have to pay for extra skill bars, if you need them, and to access legacy and guild cargo bays. You better hope they aren't listed for more than 350K, currently, as that's the max amount of credits you can have on you.

So subs have it going on in this game. This is why I don't play if I'm not subbed, too many toons at cap that can't use anything they may get to waste my time with it. XP boosts have been in the CM since there was a CM, I've never purchased any of them. Wait, that's not exactly true, I did buy that Newcomer bundle once, because it had speeder authorization at level 10, instead of 25... We get a lot for our investment, and we have never had optimal progression withheld, in fact, being a sub is the easiest way imaginable to get optimal progression. No additional cash outlay required.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Shirvington's Avatar


Shirvington
06.15.2019 , 09:25 PM | #20
Exp boosts are 25%. Conquest/Renown boosts are 100%. You wouldn't be missing out too much on skipping the EXP boosts.