To my understanding, matchmaking depends on the ratings of each player, and the elo gain/loss comes from the average rating of each team (cmiiw). In the case of Healer matches, the highest rated healer will almost always be teamed up with people with less or slightly higher rated players. My question is, why in the current state of Solo Ranked designed to punish decent players when they’re teamed up with “bad” players and people who throw purposely? In other words, why punish individuals as a “group” rather than by individuals? It’s Solo Ranked, players do NOT have control of who their teammates are going to be.

I understand in the early introduction of Solo Ranked PvP there was a ton of players that made the matchmaking work, but as population declined and the interest of Solo Ranked decrease, why has there never been an overhaul?

Why should players who are unfortunate enough to be teamed up with someone who purposely throws matches out of spite or in events of an individual disconnecting from the game mid-match be subject to ELO loss?

I know this sounds whiny, but this current season (13) is by far the worst season due to the abundance of throwers, wintraders, mat-farmers and sheer toxicity that discourages players. It is even worse because of how small the ranked population is, so the likelihood of someone being in the same team as a “thrower” is high. PLEASE FIX THE MATCHMAKER.

To my understanding, matchmaking depends on the ratings of each player, and the elo gain/loss comes from the average rating of each team (cmiiw). In the case of Healer matches, the highest rated healer will almost always be teamed up with people with less or slightly higher rated players. My question is, why in the current state of Solo Ranked designed to punish decent players when they’re teamed up with “bad” players and people who throw purposely? In other words, why punish individuals as a “group” rather than by individuals? It’s Solo Ranked, players do NOT have control of who their teammates are going to be.

 

I understand in the early introduction of Solo Ranked PvP there was a ton of players that made the matchmaking work, but as population declined and the interest of Solo Ranked decrease, why has there never been an overhaul?

 

Why should players who are unfortunate enough to be teamed up with someone who purposely throws matches out of spite or in events of an individual disconnecting from the game mid-match be subject to ELO loss?

 

I know this sounds whiny, but this current season (13) is by far the worst season due to the abundance of throwers, wintraders, mat-farmers and sheer toxicity that discourages players. It is even worse because of how small the ranked population is, so the likelihood of someone being in the same team as a “thrower” is high. PLEASE FIX THE MATCHMAKER.

Yes, you are absolutely right.

The post sounds very whiny...

First of all , I recently returned to ranked and have done around 100 games on all my alts and I haven't encountered a single thrower or mat farmer in solo ranked . Everyone was playing to the best of their abilities, toxicity was minimal .The first time I got a thrower was 2 days ago , it was a rep sage heal who afk'd in 4 of my games .

If by throwers you mean low skilled players then you should stop playing solo ranked asap and focus on getting a team for team ranked. You cannot expect everyone to be a professional like yourself , can you ? If you don't don't give new players a chance than you are only digging the grave of the ranked que.

Vote kick was an excellent and welcome addition that allowed more players to try que . The only way is to up your game and get better. You will climb in rating , because you will always make the best of every situation . Blaming the system for your inability is just victim mentality that will get you nowhere.

By the way, the previous system teamed same rated players vs full groups of low rated players which wasn't very fair, was it ? This current system tries to mix them up , which means that you have actually do more to carry your teams.

This issue has been beaten to death.

Assuming there aren't enough players of similar rating in queue, there are 2 choices:

1. Put the higher rated players with the lower ones on the same team in an (I admit largely vain) attempt at evening out both teams.

Or

2. Put the similar rated players together, which could result in a lopsided team.

Of course the ideal would be to put 8 similarly rate players together, and I'd hope that's what happens if 8 similarly rated players are queueing. What happens when there aren't is a low population issue. I.e. if more people were queuing, all the lower rated players would have their own match; when there aren't 8 of them, the matchmaker has to put them somewhere, and the devs have chosen to attempt a semblance of fairness rather than placing the "better" players together.

To my understanding, matchmaking depends on the ratings of each player, and the elo gain/loss comes from the average rating of each team (cmiiw). In the case of Healer matches, the highest rated healer will almost always be teamed up with people with less or slightly higher rated players. My question is, why in the current state of Solo Ranked designed to punish decent players when they’re teamed up with “bad” players and people who throw purposely? In other words, why punish individuals as a “group” rather than by individuals? It’s Solo Ranked, players do NOT have control of who their teammates are going to be.

The previous replies by David and Kendra are mostly spot on, but I'd like to reiterate some points: The matchmaker creating even teams is not "punishing" decent players...it's doing its job by creating the fairest matchups possible. The alternatives are either stacking teams in favor of the better players, which the matchmaker used to do, leading to hugely inflated elos. Or totally random teams, which again favors better players because they won't be reliably separated.

The part you and others before you who have complained about this get confused about is that the current matchmaking was not designed for decent players to climb. That's not its purpose. It's supposed to create the fairest matchups possible, which is what it currently strives to do from my understanding. It would be great if it took class stacking into account, but other than that it's doing the best job that it can given the population. Good players still climb in this system. If you can't, it's almost certainly because you're not as good as you think you are, not the fault of matchmaking.

I know this sounds whiny, but this current season (13) is by far the worst season due to the abundance of throwers, wintraders, mat-farmers and sheer toxicity that discourages players. It is even worse because of how small the ranked population is, so the likelihood of someone being in the same team as a “thrower” is high. PLEASE FIX THE MATCHMAKER.

Wrong again. This season is by far the best in every category you mentioned for solo ranked (mat farming is a non-issue in solos), especially because vote kick abuse is no longer an issue, and Bioware is banning/queue locking wintraders more frequently than ever before. The matchmaker is working well right now, and as intended.

The previous replies by David and Kendra are mostly spot on, but I'd like to reiterate some points: The matchmaker creating even teams is not "punishing" decent players...it's doing its job by creating the fairest matchups possible. The alternatives are either stacking teams in favor of the better players, which the matchmaker used to do, leading to hugely inflated elos. Or totally random teams, which again favors better players because they won't be reliably separated.

 

The part you and others before you who have complained about this get confused about is that the current matchmaking was not designed for decent players to climb. That's not its purpose. It's supposed to create the fairest matchups possible, which is what it currently strives to do from my understanding. It would be great if it took class stacking into account, but other than that it's doing the best job that it can given the population. Good players still climb in this system. If you can't, it's almost certainly because you're not as good as you think you are, not the fault of matchmaking.

 

 

 

Wrong again. This season is by far the best in every category you mentioned for solo ranked (mat farming is a non-issue in solos), especially because vote kick abuse is no longer an issue, and Bioware is banning/queue locking wintraders more frequently than ever before. The matchmaker is working well right now, and as intended.

Yes, it would be great if it took class stacking into account. Also, there's only so much someone can do to carry a team single-handedly, it's virtually not possible, especially in tank/healer matches. More especially in cases of 3v4s (disconnects, ragequits, pop declines), where the matchmaker cannot find a backfill quickly.

This is where you and I disagree, I admit that vote kick abuse was a big problem in previous seasons. The toxicity in Solo Ranked is still there, in the form of people doing the bare minimum to purposely lose because of someone they hate. However, saying Bioware is banning/queue locking wintraders/throwers is as if you're implying that there's no delay, for which there is. Approximately 2.5 months, at which point these individuals have been able to queue, wintrade or throw for that long before receiving any forms of punishment. I believe you should know who I am referring to.

Had Bioware switched to a cross-server Ranked PvP once the population decline for ranked, these issues would be minor at best.

Yes, it would be great if it took class stacking into account. Also, there's only so much someone can do to carry a team single-handedly, it's virtually not possible, especially in tank/healer matches. More especially in cases of 3v4s (disconnects, ragequits, pop declines), where the matchmaker cannot find a backfill quickly.

Sometimes you get put into matches that are very difficult or even impossible to win, whether that's due to a thrower, bad teammates, bad composition, etc. That's true, and it's frustrating, but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the matchmaker. It happens to everyone, and it's just part of playing a game mode like solo ranked with random teammates.

This is where you and I disagree, I admit that vote kick abuse was a big problem in previous seasons. The toxicity in Solo Ranked is still there, in the form of people doing the bare minimum to purposely lose because of someone they hate. However, saying Bioware is banning/queue locking wintraders/throwers is as if you're implying that there's no delay, for which there is. Approximately 2.5 months, at which point these individuals have been able to queue, wintrade or throw for that long before receiving any forms of punishment. I believe you should know who I am referring to.

I completely agree that Bioware is too slow to ban wintraders/throwers. But at least they are banning/queue locking them now. For years people just got away with it all the time. We should keep pushing them to improve though.

Had Bioware switched to a cross-server Ranked PvP once the population decline for ranked, these issues would be minor at best.

I doubt you could find a pvper that would oppose cross server queues, but alas, I'm pretty confident that if Bioware hasn't done it in the last 9 years, then it'll never happen.

Bioware (according to them) literally cannot do cross server due to the game engine. If they were capable of cross server, pvp would be 8v8 group ranked right now and occupied by pvp focused guilds with specific teams as thats what it was before they implemented arena ranked instead of cross server the way all the pvpers were asking for before an official ranked system was implemented.

Here's your hard to swallow pill. "fixes" for the ranked format will be temporary and based on **** like juicing population with a steam launch. ADM is a bad format for solo queues, it exacerbates balance disparities between classes, makes certain playstyles ( burst damage with or without stealth IE: concealment op and deception sin) stronger choices and relies on a larger population than swtor has, or likely ever will have again in order to make the matchmaking work. You want to START it on the path to being healthy, you have to actively ignore what the current ranked population wants and pay attention to the people doing regs.

Here's your hard to swallow pill. "fixes" for the ranked format will be temporary and based on **** like juicing population with a steam launch. ADM is a bad format for solo queues, it exacerbates balance disparities between classes, makes certain playstyles ( burst damage with or without stealth IE: concealment op and deception sin) stronger choices and relies on a larger population than swtor has, or likely ever will have again in order to make the matchmaking work. You want to START it on the path to being healthy, you have to actively ignore what the current ranked population wants and pay attention to the people doing regs.

Laughably ridiculous as always. At some point, you need to get over your failures in solo ranked. Just because you're bad at it and don't have fun doing it doesn't mean it's broken or bad for the game. Solo ranked is plenty fun as is.

Bioware (according to them) literally cannot do cross server due to the game engine. If they were capable of cross server, pvp would be 8v8 group ranked right now and occupied by pvp focused guilds with specific teams as thats what it was before they implemented arena ranked instead of cross server the way all the pvpers were asking for before an official ranked system was implemented.

 

Here's your hard to swallow pill. "fixes" for the ranked format will be temporary and based on **** like juicing population with a steam launch. ADM is a bad format for solo queues, it exacerbates balance disparities between classes, makes certain playstyles ( burst damage with or without stealth IE: concealment op and deception sin) stronger choices and relies on a larger population than swtor has, or likely ever will have again in order to make the matchmaking work. You want to START it on the path to being healthy, you have to actively ignore what the current ranked population wants and pay attention to the people doing regs.

Someone who doesn't play ranked knows what the current ranked population wants... What a weird paradox this is

If you think 8 man ranked would be any better than arenas , you are greatly mistaken. You get this false illusion that 8 v 8 would be so great because unranked seems to be a place where everything is balanced and viable. Yes, and the reason for that is that it doesn't matter what you play in unranked.

And 8 v 8 ranked would never work in this game because the same players would farm the randoms the same way they do in arenas. You somehow think that bad players would instantly become pro's in 8 vs 8 ranked ? They get some kind of divine intervention overnight and become skilled ? Ofc not... i

BUT if you they were to add 8 v 8 ranked and players would be ranked , then everyone would que with something that is currently OP... ie, decep sins, conc operatives, fury maras, ap pt's lightning sorcs, which would result in the same unbalanced mess .

But I understandyou completely. You are probably bad in ranked PVP and regs gives you this false idea that you are actually a good player. I hate to break it for you.. you are not. Unranked is full of bads and your " great performances" there are irrelevant. Not so long ago I was exactly like you . I was wrong.

You just need to stop victimizing yourself and up your game.

what the current ranked population wants doesn't matter. They've hit the cap on population providing what the current ranked population wants. They will not get more. If the ranked playerbase had a clue how to fix it they'd stop cheering on ideas that then immediately go bad, like the vote kick thing, or the lockout which is ******** all over regs.

Alex if you knew what pvp needed it would have been fixed long ago. They wont make a working ranked system catering to fans of the worst possible ranked system.

what the current ranked population wants doesn't matter. They've hit the cap on population providing what the current ranked population wants. They will not get more. If the ranked playerbase had a clue how to fix it they'd stop cheering on ideas that then immediately go bad, like the vote kick thing, or the lockout which is ******** all over regs.

 

Alex if you knew what pvp needed it would have been fixed long ago. They wont make a working ranked system catering to fans of the worst possible ranked system.

I don't think pvp needs much of anything. It's basically the same as it has always been with relatively minor changes. You have to have an iota of realism here. It's never going to drastically change, because Bioware doesn't have the appetite or the resources for it.

All we can hope for are minor changes that improve the experience for players, and Bioware has been doing that lately. Removing vote kick was an excellent change with virtually zero negative consequences, because it was never a good tool to deal with trolls/throwers in the first place. The ranked population on SF is greater than it has been in years. Multiple games are popping at once every night for months on end now. You saying it's the "worst possible ranked system" continues to be unhinged lol.

Someone who doesn't play ranked knows what the current ranked population wants... What a weird paradox this is

 

If you think 8 man ranked would be any better than arenas , you are greatly mistaken. You get this false illusion that 8 v 8 would be so great because unranked seems to be a place where everything is balanced and viable. Yes, and the reason for that is that it doesn't matter what you play in unranked.

 

And 8 v 8 ranked would never work in this game because the same players would farm the randoms the same way they do in arenas. You somehow think that bad players would instantly become pro's in 8 vs 8 ranked ? They get some kind of divine intervention overnight and become skilled ? Ofc not... i

.

8vs8 rwz actually worked in this game for more than a year before Bioware suddenly decided to kill them. And guess what - there were a lot more dedicated pvp guilds back then than ever after.

So i dont really understand your argument since it contradicts facts.

Your points about balance can be said about every other mode in the game. But to be fair its far more complicated to balance things when you have:

- end game pve

- solo ranked arenas

- group ranked arenas (diffrent meta than yolos, espiecially compared to 4 dps vs 4 dps setup)

- warzones

than just:

- end game pve

- warzones.

I wasn't PvPing when 8v8 ranked was a thing but I've read before it was killed off by lack of population?

The announcement that cross-faction would never be a reality killed an initial chunk of the population. That lack of population, killed off 8v8 ranked. And the switch from 8v8 to arenas killed off more population.

The announcement that cross-faction would never be a reality killed an initial chunk of the population. That lack of population, killed off 8v8 ranked. And the switch from 8v8 to arenas killed off more population.

8v8 never got a proper ranked season, your win/loss was never tracked, it never offered a reward different than regs did, didn't offer more warzone comms. Ranked season 1 was the season they killed 8v8 and put in arenas. Basically killed the pvp guilds as their ranked teams they'd been building in anticipation for season 1 blew up and half the classes people were playing that worked well in objective 8's sucked in deathmatch 4's.

Alex's "its like its always been" is *********. PVP is a sad sad shadow of what it was before they ever implemented arena ranked.

Alex's "its like its always been" is *********. PVP is a sad sad shadow of what it was before they ever implemented arena ranked.

Just classic rose-tinted nostalgia. They removed ranked 8s for a reason. Had they left it in, it would have been fully dead, as in 0 pops, within months. Putting in arenas was a smart move, and the fact that ranked is still alive and well is a testament to that.

I wasn't PvPing when 8v8 ranked was a thing but I've read before it was killed off by lack of population?

I believe there were more dedicated teams playing 8vs8 than 4vs4. Group ranked arenas except maybe season 1 have been always very niche.

You must also remember that few months before BW removed rwz they also allowed paid server transfers. I dont know how exactly it was in America since im EU player, but whole guilds transfered back then from progenitor and red eclipse to tofn for sole reason: to participate in rwz. People spent a lot of real money. And two months later BW announced they are removing rwz. Imagine how people felt... Another thing is what Razmir said, classes that had their uses in warzones suddenly became total trash in ranked arenas. For example, operative healer was pretty much only viable option untill 3.0. If you were maining sorc healer you could just delete your character.

Just classic rose-tinted nostalgia. They removed ranked 8s for a reason. Had they left it in, it would have been fully dead, as in 0 pops, within months. Putting in arenas was a smart move, and the fact that ranked is still alive and well is a testament to that.

Alex you don't know DICK about how that went down, you demonstrate it every time you post. You don't know how to make ranked pvp on swtor better than your shallow little pool of the same people who've been playing the basically dead format for years. Hell someone on here admitted they had like 4 alts who did ranked. If thats at all what the "community" is like, that community makes up like a tenth of a percent of the total game population. Dead dead dead...dead format propped up by a handful of people who really need their self esteem boost from a video game.

Alex you don't know DICK about how that went down, you demonstrate it every time you post. You don't know how to make ranked pvp on swtor better than your shallow little pool of the same people who've been playing the basically dead format for years. Hell someone on here admitted they had like 4 alts who did ranked. If thats at all what the "community" is like, that community makes up like a tenth of a percent of the total game population. Dead dead dead...dead format propped up by a handful of people who really need their self esteem boost from a video game.

I've tried telling you before, you need to deal with whatever mental trauma you experienced in solo ranked. I don't know if you need therapy or just serious introspection, but you have a problem.

I have fun playing solo ranked. I just queue and play the game, as do many others. That's it. It's fun as it is, and it's not dead. The population is as healthy now as it has been in years. Almost all of my ideas for how to make solo ranked better have already been implemented, and it has improved things a lot. Next up is addressing class stacking, and Chris has said they're looking into that as well.

Just because you're bad at solo ranked doesn't mean it's a bad game mode. You need to get over it.

Again, my ego isn't linked to my performance on a video game.

You keep

1. Assuming im bad at solo ranked

and

2. Assuming that because im bad at solo ranked im making up all these lies about why the format doesn't work in a 4v4 arena death match. The only response you ever have is "Nuh uh, you're just saying that cause you're bad." You never once address the exacerbation of balance issues between classes and specs. The blatant bias toward stealth and burst specs, or the fact that you could flip a coin between huttball and arena for which the regs population would like removed entirely so they never have to do it again. I love huttball, i'd love it if ranked was an all group huttball league where the champions got to have special jerseys as a reward. I'm not dumb enough to believe the population would support a healthy ranked huttball league. Your supposedly healthy ranked environment doesn't even have the population to make matchmaking work. Its not that "the matchmaking is bad" its "the population is so small there's no way for a functional matchmaking system to work". You are in fact the little dog in the burning house...'this is fine'

Again, my ego isn't linked to my performance on a video game.

 

You keep

1. Assuming im bad at solo ranked

It's an assumption based on all of your posts about ranked. And it's obviously a correct assumption.

2. Assuming that because im bad at solo ranked im making up all these lies about why the format doesn't work in a 4v4 arena death match. The only response you ever have is "Nuh uh, you're just saying that cause you're bad."

That's my response because that's why you keep making the posts. Something about solo ranked hurt you so deeply that you want to remove it from the game.

You never once address the exacerbation of balance issues between classes and specs.

Balance is in a pretty good place right now where every dps class has a valid spec (except arguably dps jugg, but even they are playable by good players). Bioware just needs to nerf powerlode and force bound, and buff madness sorcs, hatred sins and rage juggs. Those are all relatively small changes, not large systemic ones.

The blatant bias toward stealth and burst specs, or the fact that you could flip a coin between huttball and arena for which the regs population would like removed entirely so they never have to do it again.

Arenas in regs very frequently feature mismatched roles, which almost never happens in ranked. If 90% of regstars' experiences in arenas are like that, of course they won't like them.

Your supposedly healthy ranked environment doesn't even have the population to make matchmaking work. Its not that "the matchmaking is bad" its "the population is so small there's no way for a functional matchmaking system to work". You are in fact the little dog in the burning house...'this is fine'

The matchmaking works fine. It would be even better if there were more people, but it absolutely works fine right now. It creates the most even matchups possible. Good players tend to have higher elo than bad players. Most importantly, the game is fun.

Your doom and gloom about how none of it works, that it's dead, etc, all flies in the face of the fact that it's still popping every single day. Thousands of people over the course of the season are having fun playing it. And here you are, so scarred by your experience in solos, that you feel the need to make increasingly desperate and unhinged posts about how it has to be removed to save pvp in this game. Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe it.

Its not my doom and gloom, its the doom and gloom of literally everyone on this forum except you and the tenth of a percent of players who like ranked.

Again you fail to address anything beyond NUH UHHHHHN.

Useless.

Its not my doom and gloom, its the doom and gloom of literally everyone on this forum except you and the tenth of a percent of players who like ranked.

Almost no one that actually plays ranked posts on these forums except me. Ranked players view this place as a joke because of delusional ranked haters (that don't play ranked) like you.

Again you fail to address anything beyond NUH UHHHHHN.

 

Useless.

I've addressed your "points" if you can call them that, so many times, over and over, including in my previous post. If you can't read and comprehend my clearly written posts, that's not my problem.

Alex is right you know. Not many ranked guys post here.

He’s also right that match making works better in ranked (it’s still not perfect and I don’t think Alex is saying it is). The problem is the vast majority of people play regs and not ranked and the match making for regs needs adjusting and Bioware don’t seem to have a plan to do so or even care.

Alex is pretty fair when he makes an analysis of what’s happening in ranked at the moment on Star Forge. If you don’t play ranked on Star Forge at the moment, then it’s conjecture because he does.