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8/2 - PVP Sniper/Gunslinger community questions


paowee

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This thread is for discussion on the questions the PVP Sniper/Gunslinger community wants BW to answer. What is the PVP community's most pressing concern?

 

This spreadsheet is to make the questions "readily available" to viewers. I've added questions from the other thread and you can view them here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtS6aucNXnGndFNtdDN5UTJGLW9ZNGcydEFOUTR2aFE#gid=9

 

As you compile your top 3 keep in mind that the goal is provide commentary and specifically questions to the development team which you wish have them address. Try to phrase things in the way of questions that we can answer.

 

Bad example: You guys are aware that we suck in PvP right?

 

Good example: We feel that in general our class lacks some utility and cc in comparison to other classes in Warzones. As an example (your reasoning), do you guys feel we are in a good place here? Do you also feel this is an issue?

We need 1 PVE question, 1 PVP question and one other (determined by most votes). If you find a question you like you can vote now or change it before our deadline which is 8/2/13 this Friday.

 

8/2 - PVP Sniper/Gunslinger community questions

pvp 3
pvp 4
pvp 3
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I think we'll meet less resistance from the sniper PvP community than some of the classes, because our class is overall very strong and consistent for both regular and ranked PvP. All three trees are effective and fill a different niche, making sniper one of the most well-designed and balanced classes, in my opinion. That said, there's always room for improvement and I do see a few issues potentially worth discussing.

 

Some questions I might ask:

 

1. With 4v4 arenas on the horizon, one concern about the value of the sniper class is its lack of any significant offensive cooldown(s) compared to some of the other ACs. Snipers are capable of some of the highest and most consistent DPS in the game, but are also quite predictable because of cast abilities requiring static line of sight and lack of any dynamic burst that comes along with a valuable offensive cooldown. While useful in their own right, Target Acquired and Laze Target don't have the same on-demand impact that one comes to expect from an offensive cooldown. Are there any plans to address either one of these abilities, considering their slightly underwhelming impact in PvP?

 

2. Since patch 2.0, the Lethality tree has received significant overall improvement. However, the quality of life change that decreased the resource cost of Corrosive Grenade / Corrosive Dart greatly simplified the spec, making energy management much more of an afterthought than it was prior to 2.0. Additionally, this change dramatically increased the proportion of Lethality damage dealt by DoTs compared to other abilities, slightly decreasing the relative value of many now lesser-used abilities. Are there any plans to further adjust Lethality so that it might become less reliant on the spreading of Corrosive Grenade and more dependent on varied ability use?

 

(not sure on the wording of this one - basically Lethality has been dumbed down a lot since 2.0 and might be more fun if it was made less one-dimensional)

 

Some general issues that might spark other questions:

 

- there's currently a bug wherein jump-cancelling the animation of Covered Escape prevents you from moving, dropping the after-effect of engineering bombs / lethality mine at your present location. This is easily exploitable in the case of engineering, allowing you to drop 15-30k damage in the span of 2 globals in some instances.

NOTE: BW knows this and it will be fixed in a future patch

 

- on arenas in patch 2.4, will there be ample use of z-axis for map design? This can make or break snipers and most other ranged dps in my opinion. The z-axis is the single most important thing ranged can exploit versus melee, even over line of sight, so as a sniper I'm hoping at least one map has clever z-axis design (like huttball platforms).

 

link

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.....
paowee, just so you're aware, i spoke to bruce maclean at the san diego cantina tour about the /jump in place cluster bombs. He confirmed it was unintended, and to expect a fix in a future patch.
right, we don't want to burn a question on that one!
Edited by paowee
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Seem at it's in a warzone posting this here rather than the pve thread....which is a shame because the discussion is so far on the pve thread :D

 

about this roll thing what exactly is meant by the /jump rolling in place thing? There's a couple of issues with it so far and I'm just not entirely clear what that means.

 

Is there some kind of bug that when you /jump whilst rolling it makes you stop in place thereby dropping the bombs?

 

Or is it something else like

? No need to watch the rest of the clip but you see that I've started the roll only for a guy to aoe stun me preventing me from completing the roll.

 

The other meaning I get from that is rolling into a wall at point blank range dropping all the bombs at one location. So which is it that's being fixed?

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Seem at it's in a warzone posting this here rather than the pve thread....which is a shame because the discussion is so far on the pve thread :D

 

about this roll thing what exactly is meant by the /jump rolling in place thing? There's a couple of issues with it so far and I'm just not entirely clear what that means.

 

Is there some kind of bug that when you /jump whilst rolling it makes you stop in place thereby dropping the bombs?

this one. you can do up to 20K+ dmg in one GCD (if all bombs crit) if you roll in place on top of somebody.

 

This is why its funny knocking back people on a wall and then running to them and doing a covered escape >_<. or camping a wall and waiting for an unsuspecting marauder to try and melee you xD

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All of the questions listed so far are pretty good, the biggest problem I have with picking one is that they all feel more like something I want answered because I'm curious/interested, and not so much because they're actually an "issue" that I want addressed.

 

I'd probably throw my vote towards number 5, since I feel it's been largely overlooked in the last two PvP maps in favor of basic LoS designs.

 

With that said, we do have a third question available after our PvP and PvE ones are decided, and from the looks of it we could very easily get a hybrid PvP/PvE question out of questions 3 or 4.

 

Question 3 fits right in with the PvE question of whether or not Laze Target will ever be addressed, and could potentially even be expanded to encompass cooldowns in general: both offensive and defensive. No reason to limit it to one or two specific abilities.

 

Question 4 could be reworded to fit in with the PvE question 3, in regards to the balance issues of Lethality and whether or not we can see more of it's damage focus shifted back into single target sustained damage (to both buff the PvE DPS and shift some of the focus off "spam dotting" in PvP).

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My understanding of the sniper roll/bombs is it's un-intended design (especially the one where you don't even have to pin the guy up against a wall). The one where you manage to jump and roll in place has got to be abusing an unintended mechanic that bioware should fix. Today - not at some random patch weeks into the future. I've done it once or twice, laughed, then felt dirty afterwards.

 

The rolling into a wall, I'm not so sure about. I will use this in normals, but based on the ranked pvp population opinion on pot5, I will not use this in rateds provided I don't see anyone else on the other team use it. The ranked community has had gentlemen's agreements in the past adhered to by many (for example, bubble stun)

 

I can't read that doc either unfortunately, its blocked at work (which is where I do like 95% of my forum reading).

Edited by islander
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My understanding of the sniper roll/bombs is it's un-intended design (especially the one where you don't even have to pin the guy up against a wall). The one where you manage to jump and roll in place has got to be abusing an unintended mechanic that bioware should fix. Today - not at some random patch weeks into the future. I've done it once or twice, laughed, then felt dirty afterwards.

 

The rolling into a wall, I'm not so sure about. I will use this in normals, but based on the ranked pvp population opinion on pot5, I will not use this in rateds provided I don't see anyone else on the other team use it. The ranked community has had gentlemen's agreements in the past adhered to by many (for example, bubble stun)

 

I can't read that doc either unfortunately, its blocked at work (which is where I do like 95% of my forum reading).

 

So you mean to tell me in POT5, Engineering snipers can't camp a wall (in ranked is this even something ideal to do in competitive play??) to serve as a deterrent to any melee who might want to target him?

 

It's not as if camping a wall is even a good idea in maps like Huttball (objective), the side nodes of civil war (makes you a sitting duck for ranged DPS, novare outcoast (unless you sit inside the "garage" and limit your line of sight to probably 50% of your enemies).

 

Are wall camping Engineering snipers IN RANKED such game breakers that you guys agreed to let Engineering specs play but agree that they can not stand beisde a wall? This is really odd to me. I'd think that Engineering/Saboteur is used for area denial and not wall camping so melee will think (oh he is beside a wall) i better just ignore him or get nuked by wall rolling scatter bombs).

Edited by paowee
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**snip**

 

Are wall camping Engineering snipers IN RANKED such game breakers that you guys agreed to let Engineering specs play but agree that they can not stand beisde a wall?

 

Who said anything about not letting them play by a wall?

 

Reality is, most folks think being able to instantly (and every 20 seconds) do one button 10-15k damage without a cast time is just ridiculously OP, much less if adrenaline probe is up to rinse-repeat.

 

if that's not OP, I'm not sure what is. I mean the only thing close would be auto-crit smashes which happen every 20-30 seconds.

 

I'm not entirely sure how you fix it, though.

Edited by islander
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The rolling into a wall, I'm not so sure about. I will use this in normals, but based on the ranked pvp population opinion on pot5, I will not use this in rateds provided I don't see anyone else on the other team use it. The ranked community has had gentlemen's agreements in the past adhered to by many (for example, bubble stun)

I implied it from this post. I thought that is what you said.

 

 

if that's not OP, I'm not sure what is. I mean the only thing close would be auto-crit smashes which happen every 20-30 seconds.

I don't think its OP because you have to roll-in-place to do it, which is going to get fixed according to Bruce McClean from SWTOR San Diego cantina event. And once that gets fixed you can only do it when you are standing beside a wall.

 

If you are playing competitive ranked WZs, and if you are a melee, you should know this and do the necessary steps to avoid it. But yeah the sniper can look for opportunities to knock you back against a wall and roll on you. Meh, i guess that can be argued.

 

I think the argument for scatter bomb OP is hard to justify because you have to knock the person to a wall, do a roll or double roll, and that is assuming the other person is AFK or not doing anything to counter what he should know you are about to do (assumption in high ranked play).

 

When you see this trick done to you once, you should be able to do something to prevent it in the future. I do stun double roll combo in solo q wzs a lot and i see some 'knowledgeable' people who know how to deal with it. one time a sorc bubbled it, a marauder UR + healthpot it, an operative evasion cleansed the roote, mercs, operatives in general can all cleanse the root, i've seen a BH use hydraulic overrides to remove the knock back root ( i was sort of dueling him the entire Civil war match and he knew it was coming).

Edited by paowee
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Well, either way it's good to see the roll (in place) is being fixed.

That's just ridiculously cheesy.

 

As far as wall rolling, again I do it when I run engineer in normals (currently novare, and sometimes VS).

 

If BW suggests that rolling into a wall and having all of the bombs land in one place is "working as intended" then that's something else. (edit: Still, if the Pot5 core ranked teams want to 'not use it' as a wall bombing, I'm going to go with that out of respect)

 

These guys at BW really should start posting transcripts here of "What they say" because a tiny tiny percentage of people can attend these cantina meetups. These slackers need to schlep out to the mid-atlantic sometime.

Edited by islander
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Sorry, about a week behind in reading, had a friend and family from Spain over here last week.
All good man!

 

If BW suggests that rolling into a wall and having all of the bombs land in one place is "working as intended" then that's something else.

I'd personally won't think that that was their FIRST intention, but more of a clever use of game mechanics

 

We will never know until the devs tell us directly what their intention was for all 3 specs (NOTE this can be a good question and we can ask it if more people vote for it), but this is what i think:

 

Lethality = DoT spec. Long ramp-up. Can spec for spammable AoE slow via CG DoT.

Engineering = AoE- area denial spec.

MM = turret down spec, cover immune to Charge, entrench immune to CC.

 

Lethaliy's roll = Corrosive Mines, has a little AoE damage but more importantly used to kite and slow enemies. Can be used to give you time to apply your DoTs while the person is trying to get out of your Corrosive Mine AoE slwo.

Engineering's roll = AoE dps and leaves 5 bombs throughout your 18m covered escape.

MM's roll = gives you X seconds of entrench for immunity CC to let you turret undisturbed. Movement speed buff after leaving cover to help you reposition.

 

/2c

 

@islander - no vote yet? :p

Edited by paowee
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I don't think its OP because you have to roll-in-place to do it

sorry dude but it is definitely OP and cheesy. In my opinion the bombs should drop based on the distance you travel so if you just roll head first into a wall it'll allow that but....no bombs.

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sorry dude but it is definitely OP and cheesy. In my opinion the bombs should drop based on the distance you travel so if you just roll head first into a wall it'll allow that but....no bombs.

 

Well you could write it down as a pvp question but it looks like not that big of a concern for the pvp forum community (if this thread is a good basis at ALL for issues and concerns that the sniper pvp community has >_>).

 

I only personally know Teacher/Trephination who plays high-ranked WZs as a Sniper in The Bastion with <Hey Im MVP> and i've posted his concerns in the front page (guy is not a frequent form goer). NoTomorrow's question is also up there as well (about relationship between ranged DPS and healers).

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Doesn't bother me too much tbh just replying to say that it is OP, there wasn't meant to be a question in my comment :)

 

As I've already told you I want nothing to do with these questions, my interest in the game has waned to the point that after I've finally got my rank 100 (my fault in the delay for rolling and playing so many other snipers) I'm gone. If people want to ask the devs a question in it's current form that's related to a feature that isn't already out yet then good for them.

 

Islander, I have the same problem at work. If you right lcick the link> properties, you can copy the link and paste it in your internet explorer (or whatever it is you use). Works for me that way. Clicking the link directly doesn't work for me but that method does.

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sorry dude but it is definitely OP and cheesy. In my opinion the bombs should drop based on the distance you travel so if you just roll head first into a wall it'll allow that but....no bombs.

 

No luck with the copy/paste thing, and yeah, we use internet exploder.

 

well maybe a bomb or two, but surely not all five.

 

I'm not going to go out of my way to cry for a self nerf - I do understand the counterargument with smash and spreading out. I just unequivocally want the jumping/roll exploit gone ASAP. If Bioware says "rolling bombs into a wall is legit" then I mean hey - at that point I'll defer to what respected folks in my server community seem to think. I'd rather lose and have a good personal reputation then the opposite. I'm generally a good person in real life, and this game, besides some occasional trolling for entertainment purposes, is something I've never aspired to be any different...

Edited by islander
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The question (similar to the issue you guys have been discussing) is up in the spreadsheet. It's on both PVE and PVP sections. From CJNJ

 

Did they intend for our roll to have such an impact on the class? With the roll we have the ability to avoid mechanics in fights(doom in DG) and in one particular spec is the key damaging move at this time. Are you guys planning on letting us keep the roll as it is or will we be seeing a nerf? If roll does get changed will anything be added to compensate for it?

 

Definitely should be reworded but pretty much our roll is really powerful at the moment and I would personally like to know if they plan on doing anything with it

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6604492&postcount=45

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We started a few days early but here is an official message to the Class Representatives .

 

As you compile your top 3 keep in mind that the goal is provide commentary and specifically questions to the development team which you wish have them address. Try to phrase things in the way of questions that we can answer.

 

Bad example: You guys are aware that we suck in PvP right?

 

Good example: We feel that in general our class lacks some utility and cc in comparison to other classes in Warzones. As an example (your reasoning), do you guys feel we are in a good place here? Do you also feel this is an issue?

Edited by paowee
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GalnarDegana the Gunslinger Rep (mainly PVP) will be "taking over" this thread and hopefully he will start the pvp discussion going and get good questions for the sniper/slinger PVP community! Edited by paowee
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