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Madness / Balance Set Bonuses and Tactical Items

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Madness / Balance Set Bonuses and Tactical Items
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EricMusco's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 09:57 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey folks,

Following our Onslaught announcement at SW Celebration we want to start diving into feedback right away. I want to use this thread to talk about Tactical Item effects and Set Bonuses for Madness and Balance Disciplines. Our goal for set bonuses is to introduce new bonuses, and potentially with even new sizes so you can mix and match. Tactical Items are a new item type that is meant to be build defining and most likely to directly impact how an ability works. For inspiration here are two completely made up Chain Lightning Examples:
  1. Chain Lightning now does all of its total damage to only one target, and no longer jumps.
  2. Chain Lightning now jumps even more and does additional damage to secondary targets.

That would allow you to take a standard ability and allow it to be modified to fit your playstyle. Please use this thread to brainstorm ideas and make as many recommendations as you would like! For context:
  • Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  • Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.
Set bonuses, tacticals, both, let us know what you would like to see. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

Eric Musco | Community Manager
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EmperorRus's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 12:25 PM | #2
Tactical Item. Death Field does not spreading DoTs anymore, but critical damage bonus of Death Field and DoTs increased by X% (Pestilence changes)

PvP Madness Set Bonus
2-p Reduces cooldown of Demolish by 1.5 seconds. Demolish damage heal you for 0.5% of max health
4-p Force Speed gives 4 stacks of Wrath, Static Barrier on self is off-GCD
6-p Increases Recklessness charges by 1, Phase Walk increases healing by 25% for the next 6 seconds.
8-p Reduces all damage taken while hindered by 15%. If you are E-Netted, then you cant be netted again for a certain amount of time.

A couple of QOL changes/fixes:
- Phase Walk gives about 1-2s of 100% damage immunity. It's quite silly to be killed by some random hits after out of range and LoS.
- Remove Phase Walk casting time
- Phase Walk does not cancel when "hindered" or out of range.
- SI periodic damaging effects don't tick on targets affected by Whirlwind
- Increase the number of Deathmark stacks to 20
- "Using Phase Walk to return to its marked location grants <buff> keeping you from being leapt to or pulled for 4 seconds."
- "Wrath causes your next Lightning Strike, Crushing Darkness or Demolish to activate instantly, consume 50% less Force and deals 35%(up from 20%) more damage."
Currently spamming FL looks like is a better choice DPS wise than LS.
- Change Fulminating Current to15 seconds(up from 10 seconds), because a slight interruption can cause you to lose buff(which happens quite a lot)
- Remove Dark Echo. Most useless skill ever.

Last edited Ap'19

shyroman's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 12:48 PM | #3
A tactical item that changes the Dark Echo passive that instead of triggering off of death field, it triggers off of every dot tick. Death by a thousand cuts.
Ryann - Sniper | Ryannack - Sorcerer | Apophas - Marauder
Jesicca - Mercenary | Lindseey - Gunslinger
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Azerdayne's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 06:40 PM | #4
I'm sure most of these ideas are problematic in terms of balancing ... but I think they would be cool XD

Force Armor & Static Barrier seem like an ability that could be changed in interesting ways. Though there are already the talents that modify it, in the spirit of making "tactical" changes:

Perhaps force armor becomes a single toggle (like guard) that can only be placed on ourselves, preventing the "bubbling" of other characters, while providing a flat, permanent damage reduction, rather than full absorption up to the damage threshold. In raids, as a dps sage, my force armor is useless if there is another sage healing. Having a flat damage reduction for myself would be a powerful tactical modification of force armor. I also think I would use something like this in PvP, since sage's excel at dealing with low damage over time, but struggle to go toe-to-toe with more directly resilient classes.

More/some usage of light saber abilities are also something I would enjoy on my sage and sorc.

Perhaps a tactical item could turn saber slash into a saber throw? Coupled with the top tier root talent, this would be an incredibly strong tactical option for PvP, and would make that talent actually useful.

Or, perhaps disturbance could be changed into a TK powered saber strike that is melee ranged (4m) but does more damage, or does less damage but w/ a decent knockback (5m?)

A few other random ideas:

TK throw/Force Lightning could be modified to siphon a % of dmg to the caster but deal a bit less damage, or become 100% siphon abilities that deal significantly less damage.

Groundquake could be modified to root enemies while filling their resolve bar equal to the length of the rooting, allowing maybe 12 seconds of consecutive rooting at most (since it wouldn't actually stun).

Sage/sorc defensive cooldowns don't really allow for going toe-to-toe in PvP. It would be really nice if we had something on a 3 min cooldown that allowed us to fight on a node and temporarily stop kiting.

Ever since DoTs become uncleansable, the "cleanse" ability has been useless outside of raid boss mechanics. The sage/sorc cleanse could be a *great* ability to heavily modify with tactical items. It seems like a prime candidate to become a dcd by increasing the ability cooldown relative to the power of the defensive boost it provides. I think sages could benefit from a 1.5 minute cooldown defensive abilitiy, providing modest defense (something akin to saber ward).

EmperorRus's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 12:05 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Azerdayne View Post
It would be really nice if we had something on a 3 min cooldown that allowed us to fight on a node and temporarily stop kiting.
Agreed. Something actually useful, something "hindered free"

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

Right now, the optimal Madness rotation s clunky as hell and requires you to clip a Force Lightning. Please, do something.

EmperorRus's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 06:23 AM | #6

Delani's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 02:00 PM | #7
Dps sorcerers and sages should be true force benders. They should have an aoe knockback, force push, force pull, and/ force throw. Allowing players to control their enemies and keep distance.

kerplunkcatt's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 03:51 PM | #8
A few Ideas for Madness Tactical slots:

1. Using phase walk leaves behind a Force Ghost that "Corrupts" targets within 10 meters, causing them to take x% more damage from Periodic Damaging Effects. After x seconds the Force Ghost will detonate dealing x damage to targets within 5 meters. Using Phase Walk again while the Ghost is active will detonate the Ghost, ending the corruption and dealing x Damage to all enemies within 5 meters.

2. While Polarity Shift is active, using Death Field will "Detonate" Periodic Damage effects on the target, immediately dealing X damage per DOT-Tick remaining. The Periodic Damaging effects are then replaced with weaker versions of the DOTs (Similar to what happens when Virulence DOTs fall off of a target.) that cannot be detonated. Also, Unnatural Preservation Increases healing received from Periodic Damaging Effects by x% for 6 seconds.

I know that a lot of the posts so far on the Sorc/Sage have been in the interest of making them "Less Squishy" or have "More instants". Honestly, I think this destroys the purpose of playing a Sorc/Sage to begin with. I main a sorc and I have since 2.0, and probably longer, but the Sorc is meant to be a glass cannon, not a weirdly tanky god of death. I know that most every change has to be filtered through the lens of both PVE and PVP (A point of no small contention to parties on either side of that divide) but I would honestly love to be a raid-viable DPS first, survival-god second. Just my two cents.

I know that this is sort of off- topic, but I would really also like to see a few QOL changes made to the sorc as well.

Firstly, in Madness I would love to have Force Storm grant Wrath stacks per tick. There are a lot of times that the whole rotation is derailed due to having to AOE in a fight, potentially delaying the next demolish. Even if this came at the cost of some Force Storm damage in the discipline, I feel like this is a reasonable accommodation.

Next, I would like to see some change that makes Lightning Strike more appealing to use for Wrath. Lightning Strike, per GCD is barely better than Force Lightning, and since some patch (I forget which one) it doesn’t even have a chance to PROC Lightning Burns anymore. Before, the fact that it had a much higher chance to apply Lightning Burns made Lightning Strike more appealing, but as of now it just serves as a break from endless Force Lightning. I really have no suggestion as to what to do to make it better, but just something.

One of the things that I really want to stress is that for specs like Lightning, Madness, and a lot of others that I have played, is that there are already enough/ too many rotational abilities. Nothing quite so extreme as Fury/ Rage, but it exists on the Sorc. I hope that as an option we aren't just going to add more abilities to an already cluttered rotation.
Heidyn - Sorcerer

Dragonslayer / From Beyond / Revanchist

Taerrik's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 09:48 PM | #9
I dont mind being a bit of a glass cannon, but for a glass canon to work in pvp it needs to be able to kite effectivly. I would like something similar to operative roll that can remove negative effects and be invul while effective.

I also want phase walk to work anytime, hindered or not

EmperorRus's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 10:28 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Taerrik View Post
I would like something similar to operative roll that can remove negative effects and be invul while effective.
Palpatine Dash: Madly dash forward 30 meters, dealing X weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while dashing.

Tactical Item #2
Whirlwind before: "Traps the target in a whirlwind for X seconds. Non-player, non-standard, and non-weak targets heal rapidly while trapped. Damage causes this effect to end prematurely."

Cooldown: 60 s

Whirlwind after: "Blast the target with raw lightning, dealing X energy damage over X seconds. Additionally, hinders the target, preventing the use of high mobility actions and escapes such as charges, vanishes, and speed boosts."

Cooldown: 2 m

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