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So, about skipping Kotfe-Kotet..

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
So, about skipping Kotfe-Kotet..

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.16.2018 , 11:28 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthFixxxer View Post
(SNIP)
I'm sorry but the lack of understanding is not on my end. You're mixing up everything that is being said to you. So this will be my last response to you. As everyone has said, YOU CAN DO everything you want to do. Nobody's trying to force you to do KOTFE/ET and you've been given workable solutions to get around it. Point by point:

You want to do the Iokath segment: It's on your mission console on your character's ship. Activate the mission and go. YOU DO NOT need to do KOTFE or KOTET for access to this mission. The only requirement is being Level 70.

You want to do the Iokath dailies: Finish the Iokath segment. You keep saying you can't do the dailies without KOTET, and it's now been explained about four times that YOU CAN. Just accept the Iokath mission (which is not KOTFE/KOTET), do the mission, and unlock the dailies.

You want your classic companions: Don't do KOTFE/KOTET. Or accept chapter 1 of KOTET, abandon the mission and get them all back from the console.

Romance gifts don't work on returned companions: So get them to max influence before you temporarily lose them, or use other gifts that cost the same and have the same or more influence.

You want to do the Umbara, Copero and Nathema flashpoints: You do not need to do the KOTFE and KOTET expansions. You can access all three flashpoints in the activity finder.

You don't want your characters to have anything to do with KOTET or that storyline: Then don't do any content past Ziost. It's simple. If you are on Nathema, Iokath, Umbara or Copero your toon is in that timeline, like it or not. You have a choice to stop the story at any point you want, but asking for your toon to not be in the story AND for you to be able to access the story's playable content really is unworkable. This is a game with story progression and not one that is just areas to grind.

DarthCasus's Avatar


DarthCasus
09.17.2018 , 02:20 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by IanArgent View Post
Also, the Citadel website doesn't have to work. If something gets broken by it, they can tell you "shrug, start over." Doesn't work that way in SWTOR.
"My neighbor's toilet stopped working so I might as well not get one because if it breaks, tough cookies."

Options presented in a game shouldn't be compared to a single player game's version of continuation and carrying over choices. MMO's are meant to give a platform for content to expand upon and in this game, that already encompasses whatever boxes your character has checked to and up with their outcomes.
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IanArgent's Avatar


IanArgent
09.17.2018 , 05:30 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthCasus View Post
"My neighbor's toilet stopped working so I might as well not get one because if it breaks, tough cookies."

Options presented in a game shouldn't be compared to a single player game's version of continuation and carrying over choices. MMO's are meant to give a platform for content to expand upon and in this game, that already encompasses whatever boxes your character has checked to and up with their outcomes.
I'm not sure I follow; but I compressed my argument a tad as well.

I did a bit more research into the ME tools available, and it looks like the biggest difference is that for the jump from ME1 to ME2, the "character import" was originally done by a "checkbox" system rather than by directly importing saves, so the capability was built in from the beginning. This was not the case for SWTOR. Designed from the beginning makes things way easier than bolt on afterwards.

But my particular point the support options is that "messing with character database flags" is an inherently risky business. In a single-player "buy once and done" game, you can simply say "this is not supported behavior, if it breaks, you're on your own." In SWTOR, which is an MMO with a subscription, they can't get away with telling someone "oh, your character is boned start over."

FInal note, as to the fragility of the character flags database in SWTOR. I was shipping stuff around last night because I just started up a new character, and almost every item (including stuff crafted by my characters or others, and CM items) got that silly "are you sure you want to mail this, it might prevent trading between eligible characters" pop-up you get now. This is an indication that the devs don't really trust the flags database any more; even for something so trivial as "is this an item that came from group activity and the bind timer hasn't expired." There's other minor bugs you can trip over from time to time that indicate the flags database is not in as good a shape as it ought to be. The one that stares me in the face on every character I've started KotFE with is the "unavailable companions" section that lists Treek; even though there's another perfectly good copy up in my Other Companions section. Usually there's a couple others, but Treek is always there.

They chose not to do an interface for the Token 60s when they were developed, going back and doing so now would be fraught with danger.
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
09.17.2018 , 09:27 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthFixxxer View Post
It is not your fault, but my fault, for actually trying to explain something to someone, when they don't understand because all they see is their point of view. I will be short and simple. I do NOT want all my characters to be the freaking stupid Outlander, with an idiotic Alliance and a bunch of horribly written companions. I want every character of mine to have their own personality, set of companions, titles, etc. The KOTFE & KOTET mess ruined all that. Therefore I am skipping those on as many characters as I can. And by skipping those, I cannot do the Iokath dailies. It doesn't get more simple than that.

In fact, I have accepted that. Since a long time. I am just pointing out, that there is NO problem such as this one with the previous storylines in the game, even if they were common for all the classes. Doing SOR, Makeb, Ilum etc, does not ruin your character's personality, their companions, nothing. You can disagree all you want if you wanna keep supporting the storyline that you like so much of course. That doesn't the fact that the previous expansions and storylines were much better planned, organized and executed.
We get it, you hate KOTFE/KOTET. But as others have pointed out there are very quick and simple workarounds for that. As for ruining companions and their personalities this one I have to address. While SOR and RotHC have companion dialogue triggered in specific spots, they're still silent through most of the content after vanilla. I mean for crying out loud you can have Lord Scourge up and he won't say anything about Revan, or Revan reacting to him. So fact of the matter is companion interaction with KOTFE and its Alliance Alerts could've been better but it's more than we ever got in years.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

Kiesu's Avatar


Kiesu
09.17.2018 , 09:57 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by IanArgent View Post
But my particular point the support options is that "messing with character database flags" is an inherently risky business. In a single-player "buy once and done" game, you can simply say "this is not supported behavior, if it breaks, you're on your own." In SWTOR, which is an MMO with a subscription, they can't get away with telling someone "oh, your character is boned start over."
First of all
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiesu View Post
Setting up flags in a spreadsheet once their function has already been created is not the hard part. The hard part is creating the flag in play in the first place and have it function simultaneously with other flags that might or might not be trigger-able at possibly conflicting circumstances. These have all been created already so we're past the gamedesign hard part.

The only hard part in putting the flags on a list would be that they'd have to remember which decisions counter out other decisions and make sure we cannot select conflicting choices.
And second of all, theres this thing called Customer Support if you manage to bone yourself regardless.
Weird crap happens all the time in swtor that can bug your character one way or another, how do you think anyone has survived this far if nothing would ever be fixable "because it's mmo"
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What made Origin stories superior to KotFE/ET? All 8 story characters could co-exist.
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DarthFixxxer's Avatar


DarthFixxxer
09.17.2018 , 03:13 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
SNIP SNIP.
You can't do Iokath without ruining your companions menu. End of story. The rest I knew already before you thought you explained it with your wisdom.
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These are the pale deaths which men miscall their lives.
All this I cannot bear to witness any longer.
Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home

Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
09.17.2018 , 09:23 PM | #107
So, if I were to use my ship's terminal to start Fractured Alliances without having started KotFE, how does that work? (If these questions have already been answered, I apologize for not reading the whole thread )

Do I lose my original companions and get the FE/ET companions instead? If I get to keep my originals, are they the real originals with area barks or the mute pod person versions? If I don't get the FE/ET companions, how are scenes that require those companions handled?

Does starting Fractured Alliances from the terminal without playing through FE/ET block earlier content like starting FE from the terminal does? For example, if I do Fractured Alliances and Corso's alert, but I hadn't finished Corso's companion conversations, can I go back and finish up those conversations? Can I go back and do SoR?

Are FE/ET assigned choices based on faction or alignment? For example, would my light side Sith have access to Arcann's alert since they are light side, or does the game assume that he was killed since they are Imperial and the tokens assume all Imperials are dark side?

Can I go back and start KotFE from the terminal if I so choose, and if so how does that affect the choices I made in Fractured Alliances? For example, if I chose to romance Arcann during Fractured Alliances and then I go back to start KotFE and choose to kill him, is he going to be dead or alive in future content?

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
09.17.2018 , 09:31 PM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
So, if I were to use my ship's terminal to start Fractured Alliances without having started KotFE, how does that work? (If these questions have already been answered, I apologize for not reading the whole thread )

Do I lose my original companions and get the FE/ET companions instead? If I get to keep my originals, are they the real originals with area barks or the mute pod person versions? If I don't get the FE/ET companions, how are scenes that require those companions handled?
From what I know. Yeah. But as others have said you can just accept KOTET chapter 1, do Yuun's Alliance alert "to find a findsman" then you'll be able to get the other alliance alerts for your companions (in case those haven't returned you can always use the Odessen terminal). Not sure on that one. I'm pretty sure the game just takes the default state and rolls with it for your playthrough.

Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
Does starting Fractured Alliances from the terminal without playing through FE/ET block earlier content like starting FE from the terminal does? For example, if I do Fractured Alliances and Corso's alert, but I hadn't finished Corso's companion conversations, can I go back and finish up those conversations? Can I go back and do SoR?
No, you can still go through KOTFE/KOTET and even previous expansions normally. I am not so sure about vanilla game however, you might want to finish those conversations just in case.

Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
Are FE/ET assigned choices based on faction or alignment? For example, would my light side Sith have access to Arcann's alert since they are light side, or does the game assume that he was killed since they are Imperial and the tokens assume all Imperials are dark side?
Pretty sure it is based on faction, but I could be wrong. For my Imperial token characters at least I got DS and I assume Iokath would follow a similar instance, if someone else can share more light into this issue please do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
Can I go back and start KotFE from the terminal if I so choose, and if so how does that affect the choices I made in Fractured Alliances? For example, if I chose to romance Arcann during Fractured Alliances and then I go back to start KotFE and choose to kill him, is he going to be dead or alive in future content?
I am not sure at all, I really don't know. I would assume the game would take your first run of KOTET as the "canonical" one, but I really don't know for sure.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.17.2018 , 09:44 PM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
If I don't get the FE/ET companions, how are scenes that require those companions handled?
Someone else posted about this but in another thread. If you do Fractured Alliances without KOTFE/ET, apparently you will get whatever KOTFE companion you need for each segment (so Theron on Iokath; Lana for Umbara, etc.) but you will not keep them after that content.

You'll earn the companions from Iokath and Copero though, as normal.

ETA: And it seems that the Alliance Alerts post-KOTET, including Arcann's romance, don't trigger unless you finish KOTET, so you probably can't get those.

Quote:
Does starting Fractured Alliances from the terminal without playing through FE/ET block earlier content like starting FE from the terminal does? For example, if I do Fractured Alliances and Corso's alert, but I hadn't finished Corso's companion conversations, can I go back and finish up those conversations? Can I go back and do SoR?
SoR I don't know about, but someone else said it didn't block them from FE/ET. But I'd still reconfirm that before sending a character to FA if there is any chance I might want to do KOTFE/ET later.

Batwer's Avatar


Batwer
09.18.2018 , 01:32 PM | #110
People the game already has problems with small updates. There are always bugs. Now think about what happens if you can set the flags arbitrarily. I'm really scared that my notes will be deleted because of the crap.
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