I get the idea of having a system where being undergeared isn't as big a hamstring as in most mmo's. But is it going to kill this game? At least pvp wise?

Most people need a goal to shoot for, something they want to work towards to keep them interested in the game. While WoW is a flawed system it has kept players occupied by dangling ever shinier more powerful gear in front of their noses. What is going to be that carrot on a stick in swtor?

Without that carrot I'm affraid the horse will grow bored and start looking around for something else to chew on. Imo if you don't leave enough of a gap between new level 55 / PvE gear and the elite PvP sets your going to lose people. That's just the harsh reality.

Most people want to strut around in their full elite set, show off and be "powerful". Rewarded for their hard work by standing out and just having a title over your head isn't good enough for most. If they are getting 2-4 shotted in their hard earned gear by a guy in greens, they will flip their keyboard and yell "F this game, this is BS! What the hell was the point of all that comms grinding if a newb can kill me in a gcd?"

People are flawed that's why communism will never work, people have to feel like they are on top, better than the average. Percieved or not.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Ashenshuggar

and if there is no bolster why would low levels do pvp?

Yeah, i think it's very important to have a "carrot" and im a bit worried as well regarding this change...doesn't matter if a handful of people are saying they don't care for progress - fact remains that most people are driven by exactly what you describe.

 

If they're gonna make everyones gear about the same level, then we need something else to progress with. And they gave us nothing, in fact they even removed stuff from the pvp vendor like the pets and vehicle...unless they moved those to some other pvp vendor?

 

Without stuff to work for i think the pvp community will shrink in the long run...and we will see less that pvp fulltime and more that only queue for dailies, which in turn will result in lesser quality on the pvp itself.

People are deathly afraid but fail to realise that bolster is being balanced for rank 55 pvp. Not 50 pvp, you can all relax!

and if there is no bolster why would low levels do pvp?

 

Again while WoW isn't perfect it is the most successful MMO ever and in that there are level brackets. Again not perfect but so far the best solution. So that even in low level pvp if you work to make sure your gear is up to date for your level you are rewarded. Or if you have a main and this is your alt you can get BOAs and not have to worry about updating as much, but still rewards for accomplishing something.

Took all my heavy-plated power armor off - got 5% armor increase. EA - make the imposible possible.

Well we have to wait and see.

 

The Bolster system now is seriously messed up (as was offcially confirmed). So we have to wait how things go when everything is fixed, in particular how lvl 55 pvp will play out.

 

But I agree: I dont see that a system which would reward continuous pvp play with no or only minor mechanical meaningful upgrades as a system which will keep many pvp players on the hook in the long term.

 

I, at least, need a meaningful character progression in an MMORPG after I hit max level to keep me playing on the long run. And since all character progresseion at max level is = gear progression, yes, I need items to grind by doing pvp which will make me noticeable better in pvp. Yes, I need a sense of achievement beyond: Oh look, my pvp statistics say now that this is my 750th WZ., and I have won 400 of them. Same goes for pve, btw.

 

Now, I expect the following typical (snarky) replies by some:

 

- real pvp players do not need a gear advantage - it should be just about "skill"

- duh, why don`t you just stop playing if the pvp alone (without rewards) isnt enough for you

- bah, who needs "carrots"

 

To that I say:

 

- good for you

- funny how you never hear the same about PVE (I mean, why have gear at all? Isnt it unfair that some peole are excluded form high level PVE because they have not the proper gear, shouldnt top tier raiding also not just be about "skill"?)

- this is a MMORPG not a FPS, or a RTS, or a MOBA. I personally do have different expactations when it comes to these games, regarding progression and "balance".

- Finally, if you really want a "level playing field" and "balance" in an MMORPG, you would need to remove all classes as well. Ever tried to play hutball without a tankng class? Ever tried to solo defend a node with a pyro mercenary as opposed to defending with a tank assassin/shadow? Where is you "balance" here?

and if there is no bolster why would low levels do pvp?

 

There should be Bolster, but imo not so much that it renders PvP gear obsolete. (And this might not be the case either in the 55's, remains to be seen)

 

But IF they are gonna make gear unneeded in Warzones, then they must give those who only pvp another carrot to reach for - or many will grow tired of it eventually. Not all, but many.

 

Just take WZ comms for example...If we start pvp at level 10....by the time we're 55, how many comms have you aquired by then? And for those comms, what can you buy?

 

Assuming that people will go on and on pvping just for the fun of pvping is a road to failure imo, specially in a system where ppl are forced to enter warzones they might hate and then have nothing to "gain" for completing it....not even creds enough to compete with doing PvE dailies...

IM all for little to no gear gap, and having new pvpers jump in without getting 2 shotted. But there needs to be some reason to get the gear. But there isnt, everyone can just naked pvp and 2 shot each other, there is no reason to actually grind gear. And Bolster is broken still !!!! (IN fact having crazy high pve stats and getting free bolster expertise is probably best, raid for pvp!)

so what is left for actual PVPers?

ideally bolster would help us in warzones and we would be aiming for real PVP gear to help us in objective based epic world pvp battles for resources and bases and faction buffs.....but there is no open world pvp like that, at best we can troll someones spaceport until we are ignored.

 

IM a CE owner played nonstop since early access, I always support this game. But my confidence is shaken and my resolve is wearing thin. Ill take my time and enjoy Makeb but if open world pvp and/or bolster isnt changed/fixed by the time im doen ill probably cancel for the first time until they fix the game

Edited April 10, 2013 by supafreak

Doesn't Bolster only work from 10~54, and 55s are once again, gear based?

IDK it seems to me like bioware is to lazy or to dumb to do whats best for the game I agree with the new pvp bracks to some extent but putting anyone lower than lvl 50 in a bracket with 50+ sets up a 15 lvl gap were daileys canot be done unless your the only low lvl for that bracket if you keep the brackets balanced and you wont need bolster not that it helps with the lack of talents and abilitys

What am i missing here ?

 

Im level 27, i get bolstered but if im naked my stats are about 10% worse than what they are if im wearing my armour.

 

Is it just people who are 51 wearing the lvl 50 pvp gear who are not happy here ?

 

I admit, i did pay about 2 million for my armour and mods and i dont exactly like that the person next to me in greens lvl 12 has exactly the same stats, but ah well. I'm happy that a lvl 40 can come kill me easily, but i wanna kill the lvl 15's easily too.

In answer: Yes.

 

The way things are working now PvP is just not fun. I want fair fights with tactics and depth - beleive it or not, we got close to that when two EWH went head to head.

 

Now everyone is a lolsmasher.

 

The bolster system has not created a level playing field where only skill matters. Quite the oppostie. It's created a derpfest where the person who gets their biggest hit off first wins. There is no skill in this, and you're kidding yourself if you think that's the case.

There should be Bolster, but imo not so much that it renders PvP gear obsolete. (And this might not be the case either in the 55's, remains to be seen)

 

But IF they are gonna make gear unneeded in Warzones, then they must give those who only pvp another carrot to reach for - or many will grow tired of it eventually. Not all, but many.

 

Just take WZ comms for example...If we start pvp at level 10....by the time we're 55, how many comms have you aquired by then? And for those comms, what can you buy?

 

Assuming that people will go on and on pvping just for the fun of pvping is a road to failure imo, specially in a system where ppl are forced to enter warzones they might hate and then have nothing to "gain" for completing it....not even creds enough to compete with doing PvE dailies...

 

You can use the WZ comms to buy planetary comms. Besides the naked pvp(i haven't seen anyone doing naked pvp btw) it works well. I did some pvp yesterday with my 31 operative. And i wasn't better or worse than before 2.0.

and if there is no bolster why would low levels do pvp?

 

**** the low lvl, they just have to grind to max lvl like everyone else. The game cant be centerd around low or mid game thats just fail!

But IF they are gonna make gear unneeded in Warzones, then they must give those who only pvp another carrot to reach for - or many will grow tired of it eventually. Not all, but many.

I guess rateds and acquiring ranked gear to show your skill in comparison to other max level players aren't a thing for you, then?

 

I mean seriously what more shows your ability to play your class in combination with seven other dedicated PvPers than acquiring a higher and higher ranking level in rated PvP and wearing the gear you acquire from that rating?

Just had a thought amd i hope it isn't so.

 

Do you think Bioware / EA are pushing this game to a more console like game where you have the campian that you can play with live / ps network friends and muti-player that has a more fps feel to it than a mmorpg feel?

 

Gods I hope not! Please tell me I'm just crazy and that this isn't going to turn into another console game with a pc version.

 

Damn I suspect that might be where they are going since bioware has always been a console company till swtor and may be done with pc MMOs.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Ashenshuggar

Just had a thought amd i hope it isn't so.

 

Do you think Bioware / EA are pushing this game to a more console like game where you have the campian that you can play with live / ps network friends and muti-player that has a more fps feel to it than a mmorpg feel?

 

Gods I hope not! Please tell me I'm just crazy and that this isn't going to turn into another console game with a pc version.

 

Damn I suspect that might be where they are going since bioware has always been a console company till swtor and may be done with pc MMOs.

You are incorrect.

 

Completely.

Just had a thought amd i hope it isn't so.

 

Do you think Bioware / EA are pushing this game to a more console like game where you have the campian that you can play with live / ps network friends and muti-player that has a more fps feel to it than a mmorpg feel?

 

Gods I hope not! Please tell me I'm just crazy and that this isn't going to turn into another console game with a pc version.

 

Damn I suspect that might be where they are going since bioware has always been a console company till swtor and may be done with pc MMOs.

 

I think it is more likely that they are pushing it to casual PVP only, because their developers are overwhelmed.

They can't handle bug fixes, they can't handle class balance, they can't even play their own game.

In the future, pvp will be a sideshow attraction for the weary PVEer who needs a little break.

Please, please, please remove bolster for 55 pvp. It's good until liv 54 because no equip required (playing naked is better than to have pve/pvp gear) but remove it from pvp 55: if you want go to pvp than play and farm equip, if a player don't want farm in pvp but want play few time in warzone this is not a Bioware problem. Remove this useelss 'starter buff'' for newbies, they are not a Bioware's problem. Edited April 10, 2013 by Killalott

Until they fix the brackets for PvP (which I know is highly unlikely) I will certainly not be pvping at all. Played two matches and just shut my game off.

Unfortunately this feels like a case of breaking what wasn't that broken. Nothing is perfect but what we had before was fun. I was quite content with 10-49 PvP prior to this patch and have an alt of at least 18 or higher of every class so I could play whatever, whenever. These changes have been too much. Really bums me out.

 

It's ok to admit bolster was a failure and revert. I just don't see that happening though.

2 different things going on in your post, one is, bolster is just bugged right now. This is gonna be fixed...*hope*

So no more twoshotting wh 50s with my lvl 30 Sin.

 

But bolster in general is brilliant, that way i can still solo keyboardturning 50 baddies in wh gear with my lvl 30 Sin because im just better. (like i did yesterday with a 50 marauder, i felt sorry for him after the 3rd time in a row, he was turning slower than a npc and didnt even touch me?)

 

Most people want to strut around in their full elite set, show off and be "powerful".

No. Just baddies do. Good players dont give a **** and like competition.

Rewarded for their hard work by standing out

I never got this "hard work" thing, u playing a game remember? lol at hard work. And on my server everyone who pvps has elite wh or close to, so "nobody stands out".

 

If they are getting 2-4 shotted in their hard earned gear by a guy in greens

...that means that they didnt pop any cds, didnt react in time, etc. i know lots of people that i never could 3 shot, ever, no matter the statsdifference.

That again implies that you expect your gear to carry you, maybe he was just better? Again, "HARD EARNED" - lol.

 

Wait for the patch, maybe they fix bolster to the point where going naked isnt the best way of gearing and everybody has more or less the same stats. But i bet you will still complain that your hard earned gear didnt save you from this lvl 30 guy just outplaying you.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Floegens

You can use the WZ comms to buy planetary comms.

 

And where can i buy stuff for planetary comms, and what stuff? (It's an honest question, im not 100% up2date with everything in 2.0 yet)

 

I guess rateds and acquiring ranked gear to show your skill in comparison to other max level players aren't a thing for you, then?

 

I mean seriously what more shows your ability to play your class in combination with seven other dedicated PvPers than acquiring a higher and higher ranking level in rated PvP and wearing the gear you acquire from that rating?

 

I suppose nothing shows my ability to play more then what you describe....however, that was not what i was talking about. At all.

 

Im talking about progression, pure and simple. I have no need to show off....i just want my character(s) to progress in some way the more i play with them. A good step in the right direction of what i talk about is the new Achievment system...the more i pvp, the more i progress in those pvp achievments...we need much more basic stuff like that if we are to render gear obsolete in warzones. More dailies and stuff that gives us a reason other then "pvp for the sake of pvp".

 

We need other ways to get rewarded, if gear is no longer a useful reward. We need new stuff happening to our toons...thats what progression is for me.

Doesn't Bolster only work from 10~54, and 55s are once again, gear based?

 

No.

 

There is a bolster in lvl 55 now which it is supossed to bring players at about at least recruit gear level (or more if they have godd PVE gear).

 

After all, its main reason seems to be to help players who were previously too stupid to equip their recruit gear they got for free when going to a WZ and PVEers who think it is beneath them to have two sets of armor (like the PVPers still need).

 

The proplem is the word "supposed". I mean the lvl 10-55 bolster was not supposed to favour nudists, but we see how that went.