How does this represent star wars?

It doesn't. Devs have gone off the rails with their platform mini-game. Some of the examples are just utterly horrible. You shouldn't have to be a king of the jump and lord of the spacebar to get the datacrons, just to be ready to wander and explore in my opinion.

(...) How does this represent star wars?

You are aware that we are playing a videogame right?

I am stressing on two important words: playing and game. Just in case since it seems you didn't notice. Star Wars is merely a setting to have fun in a videogame. Period.

At the end of the day, if you don't like it, if this is not starwarsy enough for you... just forget about these datacrons (funny how you are asking how lost datacrons are related to Star Wars).

I have all the datacrons. Corellia was the toughest by far but also the most rewarding, especially the hard core mario one. Nar shadda was pretty easy overall but each planet has a really tough one anyway. I hope they add more

Corellia was super easy! Taris and Nar Shaddaa were way tougher! Plus let's not forget the Tatooine balloon.

Some of the datacrons remind me of the old adventure games where the developers threw in couple of hard puzzles just to artificially lengthen the time it took to play them through. Somebody should remind BW that that's not needed with a MMORPG.

Datacrons don't have to be easy to get, but some of them are just ridiculously, artificially hard beyond all reason.

I realize it's very subjective, but I didn't find any of them overly frustrating to acquire. I think the problem for most people lies in the fact that it requires some rather precise jumping which is needed nowhere else in the game, so most people need to acquire the skill on the get-go. One tip that helped me immensely is to press jump + forward simultaneously, while standing still. You should do a short jump forward if you did it right. You can also deactivate spring for a shorter hop.

The only datacrons I find silly are the ones like on Tatooine, where you have to wait for ages, doing nothing. That's not fun gameplay.

Also, it's not really an answer maybe, but if you find them frustrating to do, don't do them? Even collecting all of them, the stats the gain barely make a difference at 50. I'd say they're very optional.

I realize it's very subjective, but I didn't find any of them overly frustrating to acquire. I think the problem for most people lies in the fact that it requires some rather precise jumping which is needed nowhere else in the game, so most people need to acquire the skill on the get-go. One tip that helped me immensely is to press jump + forward simultaneously, while standing still. You should do a short jump forward if you did it right. You can also deactivate spring for a shorter hop.

If it would be just down for all us complainers of being uncapable of understanding little things like that...

I was lastly on Taris Empire collecting datacrons. I got everything but Cunning +4. I spent a combined seven(7) hours of trying to get it. Seven hours of nothing but jumping. At that time I saw one(1) person get it. On previous planets I've gotten everything but the Duros sector datacron on Nar Shaddaa. To get those I would need someone with a pull ability to help me, and I'm not bad at jumping. The Cunning +4 and Duros ones are just plain horror.

It's almost impossible to do a long series of perfect jumps in this game, which are needed for the harder datacrons. There are datacrons where you need to do over a dozen jumps to get them, and getting a dozen hard jumps right is close to impossible with the game's controls. In a game with a save they would be manageable, in a MMO they are hell between your ears if you are not truly masterful with the platform genre on PCs.

That should not be demanded in a MMORPG.

Also, it's not really an answer maybe, but if you find them frustrating to do, don't do them? Even collecting all of them, the stats the gain barely make a difference at 50. I'd say they're very optional.

That's a condescending attitude. And it's not just about stats, it's also about lore and completing content. Some of us are just not after extra stats, even when they are nice too.

Not only that, but get yourself a group to do it, or ask around for someone who is already on the balloon that might be willing to help you. If you are lucky, you can find someone already on the balloon that can and is willing to assist you getting onto the destination for the datacrons (Force Leap, Force Pull, etc while in a "duel").

All you need is a Vanguard/Powertech and a Knight/Warrior. The warrior pushes the Powertech up the Sandcrawler, the Powertech then Harpoons him up.

No need for a Balloon Ride.

All you need is a Vanguard/Powertech and a Knight/Warrior. The warrior pushes the Powertech up the Sandcrawler, the Powertech then Harpoons him up.

 

No need for a Balloon Ride.

SI can also, more harder, push people on to the sandcrawler and Force Pull them upon it. I assume JC can do the same.

That's a condescending attitude. And it's not just about stats, it's also about lore and completing content. Some of us are just not after extra stats, even when they are nice too.

Yeah, I figured I'd get that kind of reply. I'm not trying to be condescending, but if I would find something optional so frustrating I would simply skip it. And again, the standing short hop works great for 90% of the required jumps. I myself had no great trouble with datacron jumps, and that's not to brag, that's just another pov. Why should jumping puzzles not be in an MMO, though? Lag has been almost nonexistent in TOR so far (mighty feat on BW's part).

Why should jumping puzzles not be in an MMO, though? Lag has been almost nonexistent in TOR so far (mighty feat on BW's part).

I guess like all things on the internet 'your mileage may vary'. I'm glad you don't get any lag at all, but I do. My latency is usually <100 but quite often in a play session it will go to 300, sometimes 500 and also sometimes 1000>

These kinds of latency are never normally fatal and normal service resumes. BUT that kind of latency does not play well with precision jumping games!

Nor do the controls/animation.

So yeah, my answer to why jumping puzzles shouldn't be in an MMO is because they are played by people across the world under a wide variety of network connections: some have big phat pipes right to a datacentre, others are connecting from villages in the middle of nowhere or using satellite uplinks on a cloudy day.

The rest of the game play of an MMO is built around these facts, and caters to gameplay that isn't split second time sensitive. Well, usually it is anyway! SWTOR also does away with auto-attack, which is another way of dealing with varying connection latency. Oh well

Double whammy from SWTOR on those with not-perfect connections.

Thats kind of interesting comment. You want to play a massive online game and your network connection is not great. humm... so the game should be design for people on modems?? What is the lowest common denominator? What about people with cheap video cards? Should the game be designed for those? :-/

The datacrons, like the space missions, are optional. If you like them, you do. If you don't, you ignore them and for the most part would never know they even exist. If your lag is soo bad you can't make a jump, how do you fight a mob and not get killed? The datacrons I have done so far, even those with timming/moving jumps, are soooo slow you have all the time in the world to get set for what you plan to do next. And if they present a lag issue, then I don't see how you can play other (more important) parts of the game at all.

I think I posted here before : I am a super lame jumper. And I consider myself a low level player. I don't have the latest video card, I do have a cable modem (who doesn't these days?)... And, thus far (Hoth) I have every single datacron. Yesterday I actually found one while exploring on my own, no help, no hints, no directions. Exploring map at Belsavis, found a crack on the wall, went through, and behold, willpower cron. No jumping, just walk to it.

Hey! My first car was a 73 Pinto!! And it ran great.. I had rims on it, and everything.

No, really...

The trivial ones are boring and the hard ones are borderline terrain exploits. Then there are the time sink ones, which are really only fun in a group, in vent, with beer, while watching a movie. I did enjoy doing the +10 datacron. I gave up on the warehouse on Hoth as one of the jumps I give myself a 1 in 10 chance of making and it takes 15 minutes of jumping, riding, and waiting to get to that point again.

All in all I'd give datacrons a solid C+ for content. They would be better if the game engine supported precision jumping, but it doesn't. Negotiating terrain is sticky, jittery, glitchy, stucky, slidey all at the same time.

Thats kind of interesting comment. You want to play a massive online game and your network connection is not great. humm... so the game should be design for people on modems??

No that's not what I'm saying, and in that post I also pointed out that MMOs traditionally have been designed with variable quality connections in mind. These considerations are what led to cool-downs, auto-attack on your basic ability, and the fact that in most fights you stand in one place and hit keys every second or so. Compare this to an FPS where positioning your cursor precisely over an enemy and jumping around making yourself a hard target are core elements to winning. With that said the best FPSs have to come up with clever systems under the hood to allow variable quality connections, rather than just always allow the people with the shortest-hop to win.

My connection is broadband, obviously, but that doesn't take away from the fact that as soon as it hits the wild and the wonders of t'internet then the rate of data received can vary from second to second. It's not the best connection in the world (I live in a village in the middle of nowhere) but equally it's not the worst. If it was possible to upgrade it I would, but I have to wait for the infrastructure at the local exchange to be upgraded (which is some time this year ... apparently).

Tackling NPC mobs, and even playing PvP, my connection is perfectly usable and only rarely do latency spikes interfere with MMO gameplay. So yeah, original point was why introduce a kind of game-play that really isn't designed to be done in an MMO - or at least hasn't been done before because usually game designers take into considerations the limits they have to work with.

What is the lowest common denominator? What about people with cheap video cards? Should the game be designed for those? :-/

You're mistaking me for someone who is demanding that I am entitled to X:)

There is a parallel though, and yes - the game was designed with a lowest common denominator (not THE lowest powered graphics card ever). During the design stages the dev team would have set limits on the number of polys, the texture sizes, and a whole range of other variables just so that their lowest common denominator graphics card would be able to play the game. If they ignored that card then they would have bigger budgets for number of polys and size of textures. Sure some of those options can be given as options, but only to some degree. As a developer you can produce much better results if you just ignore the lowest level hardware.

So parallel is that if the MMO was designed to only be played if you have latency of less than 30ms, by having all attacks real-time control drive with no GCD mechanisms or targeting, then it would have a much smaller user base (or more complaints from people who *demand* they be able to play )

The datacrons, like the space missions, are optional. If you like them, you do. If you don't, you ignore them and for the most part would never know they even exist. If your lag is soo bad you can't make a jump, how do you fight a mob and not get killed?

Jumps often rely on milisecs timing/response. Killing mobs that tolerance can be extended up to around 0.5 secs without people noticing.

Exploring map at Belsavis, found a crack on the wall, went through, and behold, willpower cron. No jumping, just walk to it.

Yeah I like those ones, and I think that was the point by the OP. More exploring, discovery, and just heading into places you normally have to reason to go to make for great exploration/discovery gameplay. Jump, jump, jump, balance, jump doesn't and seems incongruous in an MMO.

BTW, on an alt yesterday I did one of the Nar Shadaar jumpy-jumpy datacrons first time. On my main around two months ago, myself and some random person who was trying to get the same datacron seemed to fail jumps very regularly. The particular datacron requires you to jump around 15 times with around 6 of those jumps being a 'fail and you have a walk back to the beginning' aspect to them. So I'm wondering if it was just server load at that point causing so many problems? Sure my network connection may have been having a bad day that day, and good day yesterday, but the fact someone else was having so many problems makes me think it was something else.

Two months ago server population was much larger.

I am rerunning the Datacrons with an alt and finding it "interesting". He has the same body (number 2), but is shorter and a different class (smuggler). He simply does not jump as high or straight as my previous four alts!

For example; One jump was from a barrel to a container. Normally, I just got flush with the container and hit space, W and was on top. He can't get up that way. He needed a running jump, which was "interesting" with the barrel as a runway.

In another location, a simple jump to a narrow ledge, was simply impossible. He always jumped up and fell back. In needed to use a different route.

I submit this information as proof that there is a problem with the jump mechanics.

I have all the datacrons except the +10; I'm bugged for this one, says I need more experience, I am level 50 and completed Chap 3, but it is bugged also. I can say without a doubt that jumping in this game is infuriating. I also believe the Devs were either on drugs or are evil when they placed some of the datacrons, The +10, the Jawa Balloon 36 minutes..., the Rakata Energy cubes, Willpower on Taris, Aim in the Lava Pit on Belsavis... I also run guild events for the datacrons.

The datacrons are extra, they are meant to be difficult to get, and definitely are not necessary. They are meant as a reward for going the extra mile, for exploring your surroundings. So use a guide, that is why they are called guides, solve the puzzle, figure out the jumps and the datacron shall be yours.

As the U.S. Marines often say, "Improvise, Adapt and Overcome".

I have all the datacrons except the +10; I'm bugged for this one, says I need more experience, I am level 50 and completed Chap 3, but it is bugged also. I can say without a doubt that jumping in this game is infuriating. I also believe the Devs were either on drugs or are evil when they placed some of the datacrons, The +10, the Jawa Balloon 36 minutes..., the Rakata Energy cubes, Willpower on Taris, Aim in the Lava Pit on Belsavis... I also run guild events for the datacrons.

 

The datacrons are extra, they are meant to be difficult to get, and definitely are not necessary. They are meant as a reward for going the extra mile, for exploring your surroundings. So use a guide, that is why they are called guides, solve the puzzle, figure out the jumps and the datacron shall be yours.

 

As the U.S. Marines often say, "Improvise, Adapt and Overcome".

Fighting crappy movement controls to reach datacrons with coordinates and guides posted all over the internet in a game with lots of latency and lag does not equal difficult. It equals an exercise in frustration for many players.

Difficult would be having to solve a puzzle, especially one that changes dynamically. Difficult would be having to complete a level appropriate mission or kill a difficult boss.

Having to go back to step one over and over because the stupid game has some of the worst movement / jump responsiveness I've every encountered is not difficult, it is just tedious and frustrating.

So I agree with the OP.

Funny. I expected the Ilum ones to be the worst, and they turned out to be the easiest ones. No jumping at all. All of them you just walk in and get them. Maybe the developers got tired at the end.. je je je Even Corellia was very easy, some jumping but really minor stuff in terms of difficulty.

To me, the worst is still Nar-shadaa. ugh