They could just be needing to get out a message fast. Or they may just not like to take the time to type grammatically in a game chat.

 

Either way, my answer is no.

I just can't take someone seriously that consistently misuses "your" and "you're," or says "would of" instead of "would have." There are plenty of examples of basics that were drilled into our heads from elementary and reinforced through whatever grade we last completed.

 

Some spelling errors, English not being a primary language, shortcuts and abbreviations due to time constraints, I get all that. Not understanding basic contractions, being lazy, not putting an ounce of effort into making yourself understandable, that's the stuff I just don't understand. I actually find it more difficult and longer to type like I barely made it through the second grade.

Well im an english teacher, but as you can see from the very first sentence and lack of capital letters and possible spellin mistakes... When it comes to the internet i just dont give two hoots about it. In chat i am usually just trying to type quickly and sometimes typing in the middle of a fight (so i just want to type asap and get back to it). On these forums i usually post from my iphone and cant be stuffed trawling through the keyboard options to find the appropriate punctuation marks etc.

 

However, that being said, if i am doing something for school or something else important, everything will be perfect... And edited and checked twice.

 

Tl/dr = internet i dont give a dam.

Amazing the things that so many posters have portrayed with all of the quotes, misquotes, hypotheses, insinuations, and "informed" concepts.

 

If I can not understand what is being put across a chat channel then I ignore it with the assumption of a cat walking over a keyboard.

 

I make mistakes as I am a lousy typist, but I try to be correct.

 

And I am so glad (/golfclap) to be in the presence of so many learned people.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Esproc

I know that 90% of the people reading this will not answer honestly. I know this because in the top five posts in GD at the time of writing this, there was at least one comment about how "you have the grammar of a 6 year old thus your argument does not matter"..

 

To be fair, I don't think that really counts. Usually when posters say things like that, it's not about the proper or improper use of grammar, but rather that they don't have anything to properly counter the *real* point the previous poster made, so they try to invalidate the point made by making the poster seem unintelligent.

 

As for non-native speakers exhibiting poorer spelling and grammar? I doubt that's often the case. Obviously, non-native speakers tend to have a smaller vocabulary, and sure, we'd don't always get the spelling and grammar right, but if anything, I think most non-native speakers try harder to get the grammar and spelling right when they're typing/writing/speaking in foreign languages. Speaking from personal experience,I've been in some mmo guilds where I've met native Brits with absolutely atrocious spelling and grammar. It's a bit of an upside down world when I, as a non-native English speaker, is put in a position to have to tell the native English speaker: 'Uh, I don't think that's how you write that'. (I don't quite remember the particulars, but let's just say he kept typing 'public' with one letter missing and leave it at that. >.<)

 

Back on track, language is a constantly growing and evolving entity and we can either lament or praise the direction it's going in, but in the end I don't think there's much we can do about it. Sure, I personally like to use good punctuation, use of capital letters, spelling, etc in chat because for me it's a point of pride, but I think it's wrong to expect everybody to play by those rules, certainly in a casual environment. I mean, it's a game, not a job application.

 

That said, nothing grinds my gears as much as people typing 'u' instead of 'you'. It's three sodding letters! It doesn't *need* any abbreviation, you lazy... Uh, sorry, it's my problem, I'll deal with it...

Edited May 28, 2012 by Chrysantemum

People with English as a second language, make less grammar and spelling mistakes than native English speakers. So unfortunalely, YOUR argument is invalid.

 

Do you really have statistics to back that up? I think people that aren't native English speakers are definitely much more aware of their lack of understanding so are very careful how they present themselves. The idiom of English isn't easy. I can tell you having taught both sets of personnel, the non-native English students are much more careful about listening and going over material. Whereas native speakers are simply being lazy many times because they take their understanding of the material for granted. Non-native English users have to get past the structure (idiom) of their native language to conform to the English structure. I'd say it's more 50/50 depending on the level of knowledge on both sides. Saying that though, I am not taking into account the purposeful disregard for proper English that appears to be the reason for the OP's statements.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Letallis

You can't really judge someone or somthing, unless your perfect. So try saying who I am for spelling the word "failure" wrong.

I have put up with a lot of things on this forum but this is pushing it way to far.

You LEAVE MY GRAMMAR OUT OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She does not even play SWTOR .... Hell.... She does not even have a Computer! She is a very nice Old Gal and bakes me tasty cookies and NONE of your damn business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Quality.

 

OP, at parties do you spend the whole evening standing alone in the corner of the room?

Edited May 29, 2012 by PalihoJ

Can't really judge others based on their grammar. Most specially because English is not my native language. I'm the one who's usually being judged because of that. Anyway... What matters for me is that if what you're trying to say made sense. Grammar and punctuation doesn't matter as long as I was able to understand you.

 

Say something like... "hey U so noob. U hid n den u disappear den u no fight I hate u so noob" Of course we're not gonna take that seriosly. Won't even be offended and just laugh it off.

 

Although, I try, as much as I can, to make my typing and chat grammar as presentable and as correct as I can.

 

There are exceptions of course, like what others already said -- raids, pvp, flashpoint, etc. Sometimes you're too pissed off or too "in a hurry" to type properly. I don't type fast.

 

Why am I even here... I should get back to work....

You youngs have such a bizarrely twisted picture of anyone over 30! It's quite absurd.

 

I was learning to code basic at the age of 11 in 1982, during summer programs, and was regularly using computers for gaming (TRS 80, anyone?) at home. By about 1987, word processors, including portable word-processors were fairly commonplace. Most families I knew had one.

 

Here's your assertion:

They are older than 30. And grew up not really being expected to type or process words. They might hold a job where they are not expected to do so either. Someone who is 30 was born in 1982, and was 18 in the year 2000. School computing was definitely not as developed, and University computing was only a few steps ahead. Computing was also still relatively expensive.

 

Just to emphasize my point: I was learning to code basic and playing text-based computer games when your hypothetical 30-year old was born!

 

When I started undergrad in '89 (when your hypothetical 30-year old was seven), my university had full, networked computer labs all over campus--there was one in my dorm, and one in each school library (my uni had multiple libraries spread around campus).

 

Before word-processors, of course, we had to use typewriters, the fanciest of which had a backspace key attached to a correction tape, so that we could actually erase letters (IBM Selectric for the win!). We took typing in school, where we learned to touch-type, which required looking at the source material, not the product--so I actually know when I'm making a grammar or spelling mistake just by knowing what my fingers are doing. No need for any red squiggles! Funnily enough, that year's practical coursework was split between touch-typing and computer class (1986, when your hypothetical 30-year old was four).

 

Of course, this presupposes that one knows how to spell and use grammar. Which of course I do, because I actually had to diagram sentences in my English classes during junior high! I have all the prepositions memorized as well.

 

I don't really blame you; you'd have to actually talk with people over 30 rather than merely making assumptions about them to know any of this! There is something mildly amusing about being underestimated.

 

To get to the video game arcade, I had to skateboard uphill in a hurricane as well. We olds have always been hardcore!

Hello Grammer pho-nantics (It's a pun!),

 

You have till 10pm pst 5/29 to buy this shirt, yes you want it.

 

shirt.woot.com

 

Also sums up many peoples point on the subject just fine.

My question is this:

Question 1: Do you view people who do not capitalize, use punctuation, or shorthand as lesser than yourself? (Assuming you do use correct punctuation, etc.)

 

if someone uses nothing but "leetspeak" i view them as subhuman

i dont care about capitalization or punctuation as much, and I also do allow for typos

but the people who constantly use things like "ur" or "u" all the time, then they can go jump off a cliff... i don't mind the occasional abbreviation, but when an entire sentence is constructed with those, then yeah, the person doing that is subhuman

From a Roleplay perspective, if it's OOC I usually don't mind too much, and half the time the people you're talking with are in the heat of a PvP or Flashpoint battle. But as soon as people start saying "teh" and "lol" repeatedly in-character and/or not bothering with spelling/grammar it drives me insane to the point that I don't want to RP with them anymore.

I came across this thread, ironically, while in the middle of a conversation about misspelled words and had to get involved. After reading through the entire thread I have a few thoughts.

 

Those of you that responded to the OP with insults and name-calling instead of rational arguments defending your positions were only supporting his hypotheses. Name-calling is childish, immature and supports the hypothesis that people using poor grammar might have been too young to have achieved a level of education where they would know better. Resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of making a relevant, rational argument supports the hypothesis that you're not as well educated.

 

I'd also like to posit that resorting to name-calling implies a level of defensiveness that suggests maybe you're a little insecure about your grammar skills, or lack thereof. That's just an observation and a hypothesis of my own.

Those of you that responded that you can't be expected to stop and correct you errors in the middle of a fight or warzone seem to be lacking certain reading skills because those situations were specifically discounted.

 

In answer to the question posed in the original post I have to respond with a "yes," but with a caveat. I know that all people that exhibit poor spelling, syntax and grammar are not less intelligent or less educated, however there are very few excuses for it. If English is not your primary language, or you haven't obtained that level of education or have some kind of language disorder, like dyslexia, or a few other rare circumstances then such errors as described in the original post can be excused otherwise it just comes down to lack of effort. My point is that if my first impression of you is that you can't tell the difference between "their," " there" and "they're" then you have some work to do in order for me to take you seriously. Now I don't have a problem with the occasional typo- everyone makes mistakes- but, as an example, spelling "ridiculous" with an "e" is not a typo since "i" and "e" are on opposite sides of the keyboard. That's not a typo; it's ignorance, or negligence.

 

Those of you that claim "it doesn't matter whether I adhere to all the rules as long as you can understand what I mean" should know that you may not be expressing yourselves as clearly as you think. There is so much potential for ambiguity in the English language, even among the most perfectly constructed sentences, that to reduce the clarity of your message by knowingly introducing, or allowing flaws suggests that whatever you're saying isn't that important. You're basically saying "my message isn't important enough for me to try to express it properly."

 

With all that said I also want to point out that blind adherence to the rules is not necessarily ideal. The English language has limitations and if you run up against some of those limitations you may have to step outside of the rules, or expand the language. Just make sure that it's a limitation of the language and not a limitation of your understanding of the language. I don't have a problem with a few abbreviations, acronyms or contractions to make communication more efficient as long as they're appropriate for the audience. For example, anyone in this forum should know what SWTOR means, but if I used that at work I doubt anyone would have a clue what I was referring to.

I am guessing that you made this post with the intention of inciting vicious name calling and ‘flaming’ but just in case you actually do believe what you have written I will reply with my opinion.

 

First I will respond to your point about name calling. I believe there is a time and a place for name calling and without it communication, both verbal and written, would be limited and dull. Did it ever slip through your shell of opinionated arrogance that the name calling could be an attempt to inject a little light heartedness into what would otherwise be a very dull thread and have slipped into obscurity days ago? It could also be a genuine display of anger at the elitist nature of the OP and the person posting the insult felt strongly enough to post something but deems the thread not to be worthy of the time required to relay their feelings eloquently.

In that paragraph you also imply being well educated and being childish and immature are mutually exclusive. There are lots of people I know that are very well educated but are very very childish and immature.

 

I think you and the OP need to grasp that for a lot of people game time is relaxing time, a time to shake off the shackles of mainstream real life and unwind and people’s approach to the game (including chat) reflects that.

By day I am a professional that ensures all of my many important emails are easily understandable and very difficult to misinterpret as I often have to relay detailed instructions to my team, I read back over mails multiple times to check this. In the evening I am Bolverk Jedi Knight of the Old Republic who doesn’t care weather I say....

 

“You must ensure you stay at least 5 meters away from the additional droids when they spawn as they will explode within 5 seconds and cause you to lose a lot of your health points”

OR

“during the fight keep away from the adds”

 

So yes you are correct in saying that by relaxing our approach to the English language we are saying "my message isn't important enough for me to try to express it properly." That is because IT IS A GAME or a forum for information or opinions ABOUT A GAME.

 

Finally I honestly had to LOL (yes I dared use LOL....) when I read your line about us having to put in some work for you to take us seriously. Had it ever crossed your mind that the people you communicate with in game don’t care whether you take them seriously or not?

You youngs have such a bizarrely twisted picture of anyone over 30! It's quite absurd.

 

I was learning to code basic at the age of 11 in 1982, during summer programs, and was regularly using computers for gaming (TRS 80, anyone?) at home. By about 1987, word processors, including portable word-processors were fairly commonplace. Most families I knew had one.

 

Um, my first computer was a trash 64. My friend later got himself a commodore 126 which was the bomb. Used to go and work the BBC and nibble what programs we could get our hands on

 

I still miss Pong.

People with English as a second language, make less grammar and spelling mistakes than native English speakers. So unfortunalely, YOUR argument is invalid.

 

lol, English is not my first language, but I've been told a few times that I write better than some native speakers. Got a special mention because I never confuse "it's" with "its"

 

In all seriousness, I think it has to do with the fact that "we" (non english speakers) have to put some effort when we write, so we need to think a bit more. Add to that, in my case at least, being a bit self-conscious about it , which makes me be more careful.

 

*checks grammar and spelling*

 

*posts*

Edited May 31, 2012 by wainot-keel

lol, English is not my first language, but I've been told a few times that I write better than some native speakers. Got a special mention because I never confuse "it's" with "its"

 

In all seriousness, I think it has to do with the fact that "we" (non english speakers) have to put some effort when we write, so we need to think a bit more. Add to that, in my case at least, being a bit self-conscious about it , which makes me be more careful.

 

*checks grammar and spelling*

 

*posts*

I'm guessing the bold bit should be something like "have to make some effort" or "have to put in some effort".

 

Your friendly neighbourhood fellow non-native poster

So "using proper English" is now "elitism."

 

* cries *

So "using proper English" is now "elitism."

 

* cries *

 

No, but IMO thinking less of people who do not use your interpretation of "proper English" is elitism.

You know what OP, i was indeed a former Grammar Police officer (juvenile division) and you know what i realised?

 

Once i quit the force, my life became much more happier

 

So theres tons of people out there who dont or cant spell properly and we are properly seing a whole new breed of these ppl infecting others on various forums and such...

 

Its their problem m8 And once you let go of trying to correct everyone (unless youre a teacher) you will find yourself much more less frustrated

 

It worked for me, and sometimes when someones spell utterly poorly in guild chat, the rest of us just follow through and we all laugh about it instead of before where i would swing my police club.

 

Safe trips in the internet m8, just enjoy your ride, dont bother with others

lol, English is not my first language, but I've been told a few times that I write better than some native speakers. Got a special mention because I never confuse "it's" with "its"

 

In all seriousness, I think it has to do with the fact that "we" (non english speakers) have to put some effort when we write, so we need to think a bit more. Add to that, in my case at least, being a bit self-conscious about it , which makes me be more careful.

 

*checks grammar and spelling*

 

*posts*

 

Lol, that made me think of when I heard someone say about knowing the difference between "your ****" and "you're ****".

 

Edit: seems there is a censoring active here on the forums. The **** stands for something nasty we all drop in the bowl of our toilet. With apologies for using a censored word in a funny context. xD

Edited June 1, 2012 by Y-Yorle

I'm guessing the bold bit should be something like "have to make some effort" or "have to put in some effort".

 

Your friendly neighbourhood fellow non-native poster

 

orly ???? u learn smth nu everyday tbh :D

The OP was weigh two long and eye did not read it. But what eye really hate is when people use words that sound the same, but are spelled different.

people often use language to feel superior to others.

Like spelling/grammar has anything to do with intelligence *sight*

If you can't understand what the other person is trying to communicate then by all means ask him/her to clarify.

Language is mostly about repetition and mindless gaping (no offense intended), I could ask you if p=np in return.

 

Do you understand this? "I has problem wit this bos can u help me"

I'm guessing most of u do, so whats the freaking problem?

 

CONTEXT!

Edited June 1, 2012 by ZaRree