14k is the highest i've critted for so far in pvp. Wasn't lightning supposed to be the ''burst spec''?

Offhealing is also pretty stupid right now, I can heal myself for half my hp bar until I am oof, granted I have the time to cast like 8 dark heals.

Seriously though, why do the devs always listen to those whiney keyboradturning melee monkeys who can't kill ranged because they cannot handle being kited?

I really do hope we get some serious dmg buffs in the future aswell as some extra healing (or just maybe more force efficient heals? eg..give us dark infusion instead of dark heal and make it heal 20% more if used on oneself)

Come on it isn't that hard. Sorc dps right now has VERY limited power...

14k is the highest i've critted for so far in pvp. Wasn't lightning supposed to be the ''burst spec''?

Offhealing is also pretty stupid right now, I can heal myself for half my hp bar until I am oof, granted I have the time to cast like 8 dark heals.

 

Seriously though, why do the devs always listen to those whiney keyboradturning melee monkeys who can't kill ranged because they cannot handle being kited?

I really do hope we get some serious dmg buffs in the future aswell as some extra healing (or just maybe more force efficient heals? eg..give us dark infusion instead of dark heal and make it heal 20% more if used on oneself)

 

Come on it isn't that hard. Sorc dps right now has VERY limited power...

melee monkeys are actually gettig their arse handed to them by mercs and snipers right now.

First, use recklessness on TB, it works now, it should make your TB hits a bit harder.

Second, its not so much as the damage of one ability but the combination of Crushing darkness, TB, CL and LF that makes the burst. You line up a bunch of hard crits.

Lightning needs some burst, and maybe a slight bit of extra defense to deal better with pressure and keep dpsing when it happens, but for regs its pretty fine. Kites like a pro, and the self-healing is there. I'd suggest for pvp to maybe run utilities that look like this:

http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-disciplines-calculator-swtor_miner/?link=dGEBAABGAgEBGgAAAAAAAAAA

You'll get some extra survivability, extra self-healing in UP, and using supression smartly is a must I find at dealing with other burst class.

Emersion and Surging speed allows lightning kiting to come to its full potential.

If you stand there and attempt to facetank people, you will die, no way around that.

Make sure your static bubble is always up as much as you can, and that Resurgence is on you for the periodic heal as well.

Dark Infusion and healing an extra 20% is a bit OP tbh lol.

useful advice on how to play lightning in pvp right now

It's good to know there's still people trying to teach others how to pvp but you missed my point. Lightning still hits like a wet noodle in comparison to other specs and the self healing drains your force and is mediocre at best.

I have been playing lightning since 2.1 now and tbh even KotFE was better in terms of pvp experience than pvp right now.

It's good to know there's still people trying to teach others how to pvp but you missed my point. Lightning still hits like a wet noodle in comparison to other specs and the self healing drains your force and is mediocre at best.

 

I have been playing lightning since 2.1 now and tbh even KotFE was better in terms of pvp experience than pvp right now.

Not arguing with the fact lightning is in a roughly bad place, but the burst with polarity shift is nothing to scoff at even now, when done right.

I agreed with you 1-2 moves could use more punch of PS be up more often, one of the two would settle the case.

Currently lightning is about short burst of damage followed by a cooldown while you fill in with Lightning bolt relatively low damage (safe under polarity shift, where it comes really fast and often procs its extra hit, as well as the sheer APM you reach).

The healing output is fine, but could be streamlined to be slightly more cost effective, and built in to be done under pressure. The 100% DoT uptime in the rotation also prevent effective mez use, which has an effect 1vs1 if you want to mez and heal up.

Lightning could go from bottom to very competitive with just a few little fixes. Better burst, sure, but just allowing effective mez use would go a long way. Out of all the ranged classes, sorc is the sole one that still has to pay an utility to get an instant mez, and currently every single utility point is an heartbreaking choice since you leave very good thing on the table.

Also, sorc's defensive are the total opposite of mercs, outside of kiting which good mercs can do, altough I'll give it, not as well as lightning sorcs.

The more focused you are, the more root slows and stuns are aimed your way, and the less a kiting and self-heal type of defense is effective. BW band aid to that is sorc having 2 ways to escape in Phase Walk and Force Barrier. But both means you'll not be doing any dps. And the rest is especially weak in a dps vs dps arena, where a lot of classes have built healing (not just merc, sniper and jugs, even if they are considered as not optimal, can last a while, and when they do they are dealing damage. They won't escape the focus, certainly, they keep a certain efficiency while focused).

One class that is good for 1vs1 but also struggling in arenas is operatives, but they still have a slight edge over sorc in that matter.

But eh, PT have it worse right now I guess

Both Madness and Lightning need to be buffed in 5.2

Not only do both need a slight dps boost, but the force management for madness is rough compared to lightning I've

noticed.

I literally never run out of force running lightning spec but can't keep any force running madness.

So for me, buff dps a bit for both (don't go merc level nuts) and cut the force cost a bit for madness.

Personally I'd love to see the dot self heals back up to 25% where they used to be with an 8m Death Field range like we had when the spec was solid in regs. The 5m Death Field AoE range is weak and 10% self heals off dots ain't nothing.

Not only do both need a slight dps boost, but the force management for madness is rough compared to lightning I've

noticed.

 

I literally never run out of force running lightning spec but can't keep any force running madness.

 

So for me, buff dps a bit for both (don't go merc level nuts) and cut the force cost a bit for madness.

 

Personally I'd love to see the dot self heals back up to 25% where they used to be with an 8m Death Field range like we had when the spec was solid in regs. The 5m Death Field AoE range is weak and 10% self heals off dots ain't nothing.

I seriously think that what gives that super energy management to TkT is Telekinectic Effusion talent. I mean...right. With high enough crit and a bit of shrewdness, you can cast for free lol. Also, Shadows have the talent(Rebounding Force) that gives them 5e on Force Tech dmg. Why wouldn't Balance Sages have something akin to that which...you know what? Just buff the Mind's Eye talent(2e on F.Suppression stack remove) from 2e to 5e. Oh and also do something about the Rippling Force talent, that thing's nigh useless. Kinetic damage dealt is too low(usually around ~1,5-2% of your damage), the energy gain is too low(2e) AND it is tied to a proc of 60%(3*20% for TkTT). Really?

Oh, and restore FiB back to 8m. 5m is beyond stupid. Imo, perhaps even 10m would be ok. Or, perhaps, 5m AoE for Balance and 8 for Serenity? I mean, Serenity Shadow has got to close down to 10m after all...

Lightning never had any real force management, even with the "nerf" to effusion to avoid it being spent on Force Storm.

Only way to run out with lightning is healing and storm spamming. The rest of the rotation is massively force positive.

Madness on the other hand is force negative, unless you can get your dot ticking on multiple targets via death field (as madness energy regen is linked to Death Marks, and not DoTs themselves, at worse a target not hit by death field is force negative to DoT up).

Its key to use force leech soon after Death Field to ensure there are still death marks on target and get back 15 force from it, but the change on force lightning, while a small dps gain was a force regen loss, as you now spend your force faster on it than before. You used to regen 48 force and consume 40 for the duration. 24 force from the 1% regen on tick, and 24 from the time spent channeling it. Now, you consume 40 force still, but you only gain 40 force back. (still 24 from 1% regen tick, but only 16 from your normal regen)

So while its still force neutral, and 20% of the time will be force positive by a wooping 2 force from Lightning burn, it doesnt RESTORE force like it used to.

It means, in pause in fights you have to use Consuming Darkness to keep up your ressources, and on fights where you constantly dps, you have to sacrifice some of its currently meager output to keep up your ressources, by using Consuming darkness but never go over 1 stack (any more is a force lost from regen assuming constant dps, unless you are looking at a long pause in a fight, at which point spamming consuming darkness to 4 stack nullifying any regen, but you keep spamming it till full. Once at 4, an additionnal Consuming Darkness only refresh the debuff, its already 0 regen anyway. Key here is either 1 stack, either spamming at 4 stack if you are looking at a 20ish + pause in the fight.

So lets make an ability breakdown:

Alacrity increases your regen, but also the speed at which you cast. Its only a net regen gain in pause in the fight where you do not cast. Each ability has a 1.5 GCD attached and 1 GCD recover 12 force (1.5x8 baseline regen).

Since I didnt run test on madness, I,ll disregard the theory that ability with a cast made instant get x2 alacrity on them as a game bug in its calculation. If true, its a dps gain but regen loss for madness

Single Target:

Deathfield (instant) : -50 force + (12 regen + (15x2) from DeathMarks recovery) = -8 net cost per cast.

Force Lightning (2 sec channel): -40 + (16 (regen) + (4*(600*0.01)) (1% recovery per tick, 4 ticks total) + 4*(0.2x2) (Lightning burn force regen, 20% chance to happen per stack)) = +1.6 force regen average per cast.

Demolish : -15 force (never cast without 4 wrath proc. Halved basic cost of 30) + 12 regen : -3 net cost

Creeping Terror: -20 force cost + 12 regen = -8 net cost per cast

Affliction : -35 force cost + 12 regen = -23 net cost per cast

Force leach : -50 force cost + 12 regen + 15 if used on Death Marked target + (0.6*2) from the lightning burn chance = -21.8 net cost per cast.

Lightning Strike : -20 net force cost (40 halved by wrath) + 12 regen = -8 force cost.

Bottom line, there is NOTHING that isnt force negative in the rotation, safe a very small force gain on lightning but there is absolutely no way to regain on the rest single target. However:

For each extra target you hit with death field, you regain 30 extra force for the same cost. So for 2 target, death fields, assuming it spreaded dots, become a +22 gain per cast, + 52 for 3 targets etc and increases dps.

I personnaly think wrath should completely remove the cost on any wrath powered Demolish and Lightning Strike, Also, Lightning barrage should also reduce the force cost of force lightning by 10 or 15. Do that, and the spec will have a sustainaible single target rotation again, by having a good way to compensate the force negative abilities by Force Lightning, Lightning strike and Demolish, and not be totally dependent on having 2-3 targets to Death Field DoT spread to. Also, I do not think it would be too much if Affliction cost was reduced to 20 in line with creeping terror somewhere in the discipline tree.

From a PvP point of view, I also think Wrath should be usable on Dark Heal.

Lightning never had any real force management, even with the "nerf" to effusion to avoid it being spent on Force Storm.

 

Only way to run out with lightning is healing and storm spamming. The rest of the rotation is massively force positive.

 

Madness on the other hand is force negative, unless you can get your dot ticking on multiple targets via death field (as madness energy regen is linked to Death Marks, and not DoTs themselves, at worse a target not hit by death field is force negative to DoT up).

 

Its key to use force leech soon after Death Field to ensure there are still death marks on target and get back 15 force from it, but the change on force lightning, while a small dps gain was a force regen loss, as you now spend your force faster on it than before. You used to regen 48 force and consume 40 for the duration. 24 force from the 1% regen on tick, and 24 from the time spent channeling it. Now, you consume 40 force still, but you only gain 40 force back. (still 24 from 1% regen tick, but only 16 from your normal regen)

 

So while its still force neutral, and 20% of the time will be force positive by a wooping 2 force from Lightning burn, it doesnt RESTORE force like it used to.

 

It means, in pause in fights you have to use Consuming Darkness to keep up your ressources, and on fights where you constantly dps, you have to sacrifice some of its currently meager output to keep up your ressources, by using Consuming darkness but never go over 1 stack (any more is a force lost from regen assuming constant dps, unless you are looking at a long pause in a fight, at which point spamming consuming darkness to 4 stack nullifying any regen, but you keep spamming it till full. Once at 4, an additionnal Consuming Darkness only refresh the debuff, its already 0 regen anyway. Key here is either 1 stack, either spamming at 4 stack if you are looking at a 20ish + pause in the fight.

 

So lets make an ability breakdown:

 

Alacrity increases your regen, but also the speed at which you cast. Its only a net regen gain in pause in the fight where you do not cast. Each ability has a 1.5 GCD attached and 1 GCD recover 12 force (1.5x8 baseline regen).

 

Since I didnt run test on madness, I,ll disregard the theory that ability with a cast made instant get x2 alacrity on them as a game bug in its calculation. If true, its a dps gain but regen loss for madness

 

Single Target:

 

Deathfield (instant) : -50 force + (12 regen + (15x2) from DeathMarks recovery) = -8 net cost per cast.

 

Force Lightning (2 sec channel): -40 + (16 (regen) + (4*(600*0.01)) (1% recovery per tick, 4 ticks total) + 4*(0.2x2) (Lightning burn force regen, 20% chance to happen per stack)) = +1.6 force regen average per cast.

 

Demolish : -15 force (never cast without 4 wrath proc. Halved basic cost of 30) + 12 regen : -3 net cost

 

Creeping Terror: -20 force cost + 12 regen = -8 net cost per cast

 

Affliction : -35 force cost + 12 regen = -23 net cost per cast

 

Force leach : -50 force cost + 12 regen + 15 if used on Death Marked target + (0.6*2) from the lightning burn chance = -21.8 net cost per cast.

 

Lightning Strike : -20 net force cost (40 halved by wrath) + 12 regen = -8 force cost.

 

 

Bottom line, there is NOTHING that isnt force negative in the rotation, safe a very small force gain on lightning but there is absolutely no way to regain on the rest single target. However:

 

For each extra target you hit with death field, you regain 30 extra force for the same cost. So for 2 target, death fields, assuming it spreaded dots, become a +22 gain per cast, + 52 for 3 targets etc and increases dps.

 

I personnaly think wrath should completely remove the cost on any wrath powered Demolish and Lightning Strike, Also, Lightning barrage should also reduce the force cost of force lightning by 10 or 15. Do that, and the spec will have a sustainaible single target rotation again, by having a good way to compensate the force negative abilities by Force Lightning, Lightning strike and Demolish, and not be totally dependent on having 2-3 targets to Death Field DoT spread to. Also, I do not think it would be too much if Affliction cost was reduced to 20 in line with creeping terror somewhere in the discipline tree.

 

From a PvP point of view, I also think Wrath should be usable on Dark Heal.

Very good, very nice overview. I almost agree with all of it. I'd just do something about its biggest hits to energy management: Affliction / Weaken and Serenity / Leech. That is where I'd start. But your suggestions are also very nice too. I'm not sure how that would increase dps though...

Very good, very nice overview. I almost agree with all of it. I'd just do something about its biggest hits to energy management: Affliction / Weaken and Serenity / Leech. That is where I'd start. But your suggestions are also very nice too. I'm not sure how that would increase dps though...

DPS increase should come partly through DoTs and slightly from force leech imo to give the spec a bit more burst and survivability by boosting the self-heals, and allowing it to accomplish its pressure dps in warzones. Its important tough that the spec be correctly balanced to not be able to just facetank people with the self-heals like it did pre-nerf.

Affliction as I've said should have its cost slightly reduced, but Leech is fine as it is. Potentially it could refund a bit more force when used on a deathmarked target, but not much. By making force lightning heavily force positive, and same for Demolish and Lightning strike when powered by wrath, you are effectively settling any force issue the spec might have. The filler between death field/Force leech will all be mostly positive, and more than make up the force cost of the force negative abilities, and Deathfield will become massively positive upon DoT spreading to even a single extra target, which settle the issue in pvp as well.