Sometimes you'd be right

Exactly, pick an argument that can be right. But I was referring to while it was snowing.

You preaching to the choir my man!

I used to be a lot more active on the forums , but i had a serious flaw in me it seems...I had an opinion that EAware didn't like. Hell in the last 2 months more then 70% of the posts i made vanished in a few Mod-Click thread delete.

 

And just why is it that when those criticism threads get deleted you see a new thread the next day but now it's filled with positive feedback...

 

for the repair cost i haven't been hit quite as hard as others, but most of my toons are in cheap Orange gear with good lvl mods but the best I have is Columi with BlackHole mods and on my Columi toon i'd say about 60% increase (used to be ~1.5k for a round of Dailies now is more like 2.5k)

But i know others that got more then doubled like my Jedi Tank friend

Same, one of my posts from yesterday on this topic was deleted. I guess I made too many salient points.

people who complain because they want to keep playing might be good to have around (though IMO, that depends on how constructive their complaints are)

 

but what good are the people who complain all the while saying - nothing you do will keep me paying, I'm done with you all. why would you listen to people like that why would you take any of their concerns seriously? after all nothing you do will sway them, so why even bother?

Because many of them are being petulant and would really come back if they fix it quickly enough.

They're still better to have than the rabid, rationality-free defenders and silent quitters. Nothing of value ever comes from those camps.

The complainers, and only the complainers, tell you how to improve.

For all the defense this change is getting now, please do remember that exactly zero players said "The repair costs are too damn low!" between 1.2 and 1.7. Zero.

44k repair bill from my ops last night. Full 63 DG/Hazmat from just a few deaths. I was at 3/4 durability. If we go to work on Nightmare Kephess like we planned that could be 200k repair for one hour or so of ops. To me, the grinding of dailies is not worth this. I play the game to run ops, not grind dailies to tears, there are a million other games I would rather play than do this.

I'm not poor, I spent a lot of time doing dailies for ops, but now it's mandatory to do them to run those same ops?

There has been a few games that had high repair bugs and it's always ended badly. Why "fix" this bug a year after release? That was shortsighted.

Now I understand why they close the other thread

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=596970&page=43

Here is full of the fanboi jack.a.s.s. attitude to ignore the fact, if we, subscribers, leave, they going to play Hello Kitty online, because if no money, no swtor, easy enough to understand, if they do not low the repair prices, we leave and unsubscribe, 15$ at month for frustrating lag and unplayable prices, I don't pay for anything I don't enjoy, I enjoy it enough before repair prices raise to pay, now I don't, easy to understand.

people who complain because they want to keep playing might be good to have around (though IMO, that depends on how constructive their complaints are)

 

but what good are the people who complain all the while saying - nothing you do will keep me paying, I'm done with you all. why would you listen to people like that why would you take any of their concerns seriously? after all nothing you do will sway them, so why even bother?

You listen to people like that so that you can learn more about what it is that drove them to that state so that you might correct your own shortcomings and prevent other players from reaching that breaking point in the future.

Honestly, is "learning from your mistakes" really such an obscure concept?

Where are you all coming up with such low repair costs? I just did a Kaon FP, I got killed 2 times, and had a 70k bill to repair ( which I couldn't afford) so I triaged the gear and limped to the finish.

What gear were you wearing?

Dread guard tank gear might have costs that high, even so that seems a tad on the high side to me. Its possible that you triggered some sort of bug pushing your costs higher than they should be.

but what good are the people who complain all the while saying - nothing you do will keep me paying, I'm done with you all. why would you listen to people like that why would you take any of their concerns seriously? after all nothing you do will sway them, so why even bother?

Damage Control. Former customers do have sway over a companies bottom line. Sometimes a well argued bad review from a former customer will cause a potential loss of revenue. What EA/EAware can do now is fix things for those of you that remain and when I hear that they do ( I will still be able to follow the forums long after I can nolonger post) I will honor my part in not steering people away from their product. Those of us that were CE owners and subscribers from pre-launch are a certain metric. Usually CE buyers tend to stick around. They are committed ( or should be? ) to the property. Not a direct causal link, but there is merit in this line of thinking. If I were losing one of my best customers, so much so that I am not going to get them back, I would be concerned for the future of the rest of my customer base, learn from my mistakes and make improvements to keep others from leaving or having a dearth in my customer pool.

How will you spin this one BW? Another 'internal miscommunication', or the 'patch notes were mislabeled'? It would be nice for you if the 1.2 patch notes didn't exist but they do. If intended changes in prior patches are conveniently labeled as bugs in future patches for the sake of removing money from the economy, how are we to believe anything you say regarding anything else in the future?

 

Just be honest and say this was a veiled attempt at deflation.

Patch 1.2 notes:

Modifiable items now have repair costs based on the level of their base modification.

Patch 1.7 notes:

Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.

I see no conflict between the 1.2 patch notes and the 1.7 patch notes.

I may be wrong, but I surmise that this is what happened. Patch 1.2 repair costs and vendor prices were SUPPOSED to be based on the item modifications installed. Sometime after 1.2, likely after 1.6, but prior to 1.7, it was discovered that although repair costs were supposed to be calculated based on the item modifications in the item, there was a bug and item values were not being CORRECTLY based on the item modifications. Item values were actually being calculated WITHOUT their item modifications. Patch 1.7 corrected this bug so that the item modifications are now being correctly valued with regards to repair costs and vendor value.

What's your favorite method of making credits? How many ingame "minutes" does it take you to recover one night's worth of raid progression?

Pick one? Crafting, profiteering, market trading, or, you know, dailies. With diligence, anyone can make a couple million in a night. That will pay for your raiding for the rest of the week.

Anyone who might turn around and use "But I don't have the time!" excuse simply needs to reduce the x:y ratio.

Hardcore players have to budget their time accordingly and need to apply X hours of work to cover Y hours of play. Someone isn't excused from X simply because he calls himself "casual."

Because, as a matter of fact, I am a casual player. I don't have millions of excess credits lying around in my coffers. However, I did ten minutes of research on the interwebz to find the simplest and most efficient way of making credits. There is myriad information on the subject. Perhaps you should look some of it up?

How many level 29 characters do you know - who have ZERO 50's - that can afford 8,800 credit repair bills for each death?

Anyone who's on their first character and can't afford 8k by the time he reaches 30 is wasting his cash on crap he doesn't need.

That's sort of like spending all your income on a hot tub and then complaining because you can't afford the water bill.

But even if your bill for one death was 8k (It isn't.), that's still a few fetch quests on Alderaan + selling trash. Anyone who is dying at a rate that exceeds that should probably go back and learn his class.

Time to step off of your soapbox and enter reality.

This is reality. Where SWTOR's relative death penalty (compared to other games) is peanuts.

Guilds aren't quitting, at least not at the rate you are implying. The ones that are were going to quit anyway.

People living in imaginary glass houses still throw stones, apparently.

Anyone who's on their first character and can't afford 8k by the time he reaches 30 is wasting his cash on crap he doesn't need.

Not once. Once per death.

But even if your bill for one death was 8k (It isn't.), that's still a few fetch quests on Alderaan + selling trash. Anyone who is dying at a rate that exceeds that should probably go back and learn his class.

Actually, it is that per death. But thanks for telling me what my experience is. Could you please tell me what my lunch tasted like, too? Or how my drive home from work will be?

As an aside, it's sort of hard to avoid dying in a flashpoint when your DPS face-pulls 3 groups at the same time...

This is reality. Where SWTOR's relative death penalty (compared to other games) is peanuts.

Guilds aren't quitting, at least not at the rate you are implying. The ones that are were going to quit anyway.

 

People living in imaginary glass houses still throw stones, apparently.

That is another place you are wrong. The threads on repair costs existed, and the community mods were aware of them, starting Tuesday afternoon. They finally posted something today. The cancellations due to this are now high enough that they finally had to say something.

This is reality. Where SWTOR's relative death penalty (compared to other games) is peanuts.

In my reality, I don't need a death 'penalty' in the first place. The actual 'dying' part punishes me enough.

Ding. Harsh death penalties discourage risk taking. Most players tend to find risk taking fun, especially when it works out, even if it takes a few tries to work.

Dying used to piss me off because I failed. It's the game's way of telling me I'm doing it wrong. I hated dying, but I'd get right back up and try again, a bit differently this time.

Now, I avoid situations that could kill me.

That's not nearly as fun.

Not once. Once per death.

 

That is another place you are wrong. The threads on repair costs existed, and the community mods were aware of them, starting Tuesday afternoon. They finally posted something today. The cancellations due to this are now high enough that they finally had to say something.

You really dont know that is fact. You assume or want to believe.

Lots of complaints but very little actionable info. It would be nice to see repair costs with info on level of shell and level of armor, mod, enhancement, augment.

Another thread mentioned seeing different costs based on lev of the shell with similiar level slot gear. Which opens up some possible reasons for the wide difference in experience. I dont know if i will have ay time before sunday but if i do i can test that. If someone else has please post.

Not once. Once per death.

 

 

 

Actually, it is that per death. But thanks for telling me what my experience is. Could you please tell me what my lunch tasted like, too? Or how my drive home from work will be?

 

As an aside, it's sort of hard to avoid dying in a flashpoint when your DPS face-pulls 3 groups at the same time...

 

That is another place you are wrong. The threads on repair costs existed, and the community mods were aware of them, starting Tuesday afternoon. They finally posted something today. The cancellations due to this are now high enough that they finally had to say something.

Casual players pay your game. No Life people like you think they have the right of "be" because "i'm uber, and others don't have rights like me" but Equality does not mean justice, you are a "no life" who don't udnerstand why hundred of people are leaving the game after this "fix", included me, and why hundred of dolars not come anymore, and why you going to play another game because this is going to be down if don't do profits, your opinion is a failure in the same moment you despise the others true. I say this because you deserve it.

Edit: The reason why i'm complain is because i love play swtor, and this fix make it bad, so i want return it and have it again, don't want leave, but this forced to leave, before this I enjoy the game, now don't, can you nderstand a simple idea like this?

Casual players pay your game. No Life people like you think they have the right of "be" because "i'm uber, and others don't have rights like me" but Equality does not mean justice, you are a "no life" who don't udnerstand why hundred of people are leaving the game after this "fix", included me, and why hundred of dolars not come anymore, and why you going to play another game because this is going to be down if don't do profits, your opinion is a failure in the same moment you despise the others true. I say this because you deserve it.

I think you're replying to the wrong person or I've confused you with my message.

My position is that the repair costs are too damn high, and that between 1.2 and 1.7, no player ever said, "The repair costs are too damn low!" so everyone arguing the "fix" is a good thing is a hypocrite at best.

I cant comment on other people, but I have a 31 level character and my repair costs have not substantially increased. For complete disclosure I am wearing mainly light orange armor(I just switched from the red bp to the blue bp you can get on Tatoinne and the only non orange parts are bracer and belt) and it has purple armor mods from Jawa Trade heroic 4.

My repair costs have not dramatically increased. Ive never gotten 1 bill for over 2k, and I wiped a few times when I was jumped by Jedi's in the desert.

Id be interested to see what type of gear someone who has an 8k cost at 29 is getting.

Patch 1.2 notes:

Modifiable items now have repair costs based on the level of their base modification.

 

Patch 1.7 notes:

Item sell values and item repair costs now reflect the value of the items and any enhancements attached to them. Previously, items were incorrectly being valued without their enhancements.

 

 

I see no conflict between the 1.2 patch notes and the 1.7 patch notes.

 

I may be wrong, but I surmise that this is what happened. Patch 1.2 repair costs and vendor prices were SUPPOSED to be based on the item modifications installed. Sometime after 1.2, likely after 1.6, but prior to 1.7, it was discovered that although repair costs were supposed to be calculated based on the item modifications in the item, there was a bug and item values were not being CORRECTLY based on the item modifications. Item values were actually being calculated WITHOUT their item modifications. Patch 1.7 corrected this bug so that the item modifications are now being correctly valued with regards to repair costs and vendor value.

Whichever way you want to slice it the repair costs are WAY too much now. They need to be decreased by at least half.

I think you're replying to the wrong person or I've confused you with my message.

 

My position is that the repair costs are too damn high, and that between 1.2 and 1.7, no player ever said, "The repair costs are too damn low!" so everyone arguing the "fix" is a good thing is a hypocrite at best.

sorry, but i'm so mad because i feel I lose something valuable, this game is awesome, and don't want lose it.

Ding. Harsh death penalties discourage risk taking. Most players tend to find risk taking fun, especially when it works out, even if it takes a few tries to work.

Dying used to piss me off because I failed. It's the game's way of telling me I'm doing it wrong. I hated dying, but I'd get right back up and try again, a bit differently this time.

Now, I avoid situations that could kill me.

That's not nearly as fun.

Now I want to go into stealth mode whenever I see a Golden on the horizon.

I cant comment on other people, but I have a 31 level character and my repair costs have not substantially increased. For complete disclosure I am wearing mainly light orange armor(I just switched from the red bp to the blue bp you can get on Tatoinne and the only non orange parts are bracer and belt) and it has purple armor mods from Jawa Trade heroic 4.

 

My repair costs have not dramatically increased. Ive never gotten 1 bill for over 2k, and I wiped a few times when I was jumped by Jedi's in the desert.

 

Id be interested to see what type of gear someone who has an 8k cost at 29 is getting.

Jedi Shadow. Using all of the high legacy level credit-purchased gear from the legacy vendor plus the orange double-bladed saber from the initial kit, plus an orange shield. All mods and such in all orange pieces obtained via flashpoints (ripped from drops) or planetary comms and all no more than 4 levels below mine.

Rest of the gear is blue and level-appropriate.

1/3 of the way through a flash point. Could have been Cademimu? One death, otherwise tanking.

220k repair bill for one night's raid with some new guildies learning the ropes.

I can afford it but long term I don't really want to have to do dailies in order to afford Operation content.

Happy it's 'being looked at'. May I suggest they get a fix in asap though.

Sad to see people quit over it.

Jedi Shadow. Using all of the high legacy level credit-purchased gear from the legacy vendor plus the orange double-bladed saber from the initial kit, plus an orange shield. All mods and such in all orange pieces obtained via flashpoints (ripped from drops) or planetary comms and all no more than 4 levels below mine.

 

Rest of the gear is blue and level-appropriate.

 

1/3 of the way through a flash point. Could have been Cademimu? One death, otherwise tanking.

Interesting, it seems that tanks are getting disproportionate increase?

Because from most of the people posting it seems those who are tanks are reporting high increase, those who are other classes not so much. Perhaps there is something that is making heavy armor cost more than light armor?

The only other thing would be that somehow legacy armor is costing more, and that there is truth that a fancier shell is equating to cost, even though there is no performance gain.

My guild has lost several from the raiding parties over the last week. The MSOD is listing all the open spots whereas before you would have to wait for a spot to open.

I've been enjoying (most of) the gree stuff and my largest bill was after the HM fight the first time - ~12K. I have only done a couple of FPs this week and both times were with other highly geared folks, so no issues with that, thank goodness.

It's sad to see all the people go, hopefully BW can revert this soon.