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The Game Has Improved SIGNIFIGANTLY

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The Game Has Improved SIGNIFIGANTLY

WaveRun's Avatar


WaveRun
08.17.2019 , 10:02 PM | #41
Wow so much NEGATIVITY in this thread. Let's just remember that the developers are working for us, they learned from the backlash of 5.0, and we will see this new system on PTS then we will judge.

SWG died a long time ago for this game, so as much as Il ove to remember as much as the next person it's not coming back. SWTOR is what we have, and we need to make sure the devs are on TRACK to IMPROVE the game. I've been here since before day 1 (NDA beta player), and the game has changed a lot since then.

People said "No way will this game ever go F2P", "This won't be a game where there are 20 people smacking a boss just to collect a token", "Every story will be unique and you can influence each direction of your path", "TORTanic, will fail faster than SWG ever could with NGE".

And you know what happened? I don't think I have to say for myself you already know as been witnessed in this thread. EA needs this game for their quarterly reports (i'm business & CS major I've done case analisis on these studies, EA in particular) so they won't do ANTHEM level EA fail.

This game is BioWare's baby. The BioWare that first made this game is gone when Star Wars was aquired by EA and the game changed rapidly over the course of the acquisition right before release. And we all seen it !

EA and BioWare needs this game to succeed now more than ever and luckily for them, game has YEARS of failures and successes that they can work on with a new direction it WILL happen. We as PLAYERS just need to give them TIME.

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XxHazenxX's Avatar


XxHazenxX
08.18.2019 , 02:53 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by WaveRun View Post
Let's just remember that the developers are working for us, they learned from the backlash of 5.0, and we will see this new system on PTS then we will judge.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, buuuut the devs work and have always worked for EA, and EA works for $$$$ alone, not us. At this point, I think we should remember that instead.
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robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
08.18.2019 , 08:41 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
I don't know what I'm even supposed to say to this. You tell me, mockingly, it's a "scientific method of proof," which I never stated it was. I said it's probably the closest we could get to an accurate indicator of decline of time, which you haven't refuted. Instead, you threw up some nonsense about how I'm wrong because I must be arguing that PvP should be abandoned because PvP servers went??? (I mean, for one thing, you do realize you can still do open world PvP on a PvE server, right?)

Then you put on my shoulders some shared responsibility for commentary that I didn't make about "If you like this you're not a player." Again, something I never said.

All while trying to use this nonsense to be dismissive of the idea that 5.0 was generally not received well. Of course some people were fine with 5.0. Unpopular doesn't mean nobody liked it. People leaving in droves doesn't mean nobody liked it. You get told dismissive stuff about "not a real player" or whatever the actual words are, probably because of people being frustrated with "but I liked it" being used as some sort of attempt to refute the idea that something was largely unpopular. Telling people they are wrong for liking something is silly, but it's really not difficult to see that 5.0 resulted in significant population loss. Whatever aspect of 5.0 you want to try to attribute it to, you can be my guest, but the frustration with GC as a system was evident on these forums at the time and the devs felt the backlash so hard they made major changes over time to make the system more bearable. There is evidence in that history as well. Evidence with such a lasting message that it was a main point of discussion in the livestream when they talked about spoils of war in 6.0, acknowledging the issues people had had with the 5.0 system and how they weren't able to respond accordingly fast enough because info was put out so late in development. This denial of reality is just tiresome.
It's way simpler than you pretend; I used PvP specifically because the servers were shut down due to population issues, even after they were merged.

It's ironic that you cling to "nobody liked it" while accusing me of diverting with my PvP example. I laid out a few reasons why people have left, I ignored others, such as PvP being meaningless here. I have 5 examples of that specifically, since they were people that came over here from Aion, wanting to PvP, but found that it didn't matter at all to the main game, they left. They had 30 days of sub, but they didn't last that, because they didn't come for stories, or Ops, they came for PvP, and it was, and is, pointless. It has absolutely no bearing the game whatsoever.

I used "science" because science looks at effects and tries to find causes. You looked at the effect, fewer servers, and assigned a cause, 5.0. You railed against any evidence, no matter how factual, of closures prior to 5.0 because "narrative". As one of those players that comes and goes with the tide, 5.0 is not a major factor in my coming and going, as I said, burn out starts seriously hard at Ilum, if you're playing stories, and that predates 5.0 considerably. So unless you're postulating that I'm the only one, it's likely that your premise is flawed. Calls for server merges, and cross server queues predate 5.0, considerably as well, and it doesn't take long after a merge for the threads to pop back up. I've been on the forums a while, I've seen it happen, and it's not any more frequent after 5.0 than it was before.

The "if you don't understand, you're not a player" is actually a post in this very thread, one I quoted and addressed directly. It's perfect to go along with the "Why you shouldn't like 6.0 " thread: someone assigning what they believe to everyone else. "Largely unpopular" is ironic as well, isn't it? After all, it's based on "All of my friends hated it", along with some confirmation bias on the forums, which is also ironic, since only about 15% of a game's population, any game's population, use the forums. Why? Mostly because they don't have time to come to forums and complain if they don't like a game, and because they don't want to be attacked for liking the game, such as most of the responses in this thread at the OP, for having the audacity to believe the game has improved, in their opinion. They're not allowed to have that opinion, nor are they allowed to express it on the forums. After all, it flies in the face of the narrative. We can't have anyone thinking the game's doing ok, after all, the devs won't make SWG 2 if they believe someone likes what they're doing now.

I digress: How many thousands of exit surveys do you have that you're using as evidence that 5.0 et al caused this mass migration out of swtor, or are you just looking at the latest server merges as all the proof you need? What about the previous merges? You see, looking at the big picture, instead of "but I didn't like it, and you shouldn't either", there were merges in the first year. Were they leaving because they knew what was coming in 5.0?
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
08.18.2019 , 08:54 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by XxHazenxX View Post
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, buuuut the devs work and have always worked for EA, and EA works for $$$$ alone, not us. At this point, I think we should remember that instead.
Where does that money come from? It's not like you launch an MMO, and it suddenly sprouts money trees in their corporate lobby. They're not going to please everyone, no game company does, so they release what seems like is going to keep the lights on, and keep the money coming in. I'd love to condemn businesses for trying to make money, but as someone with bills to pay, I expect that the business that is my household will have income to do so. There's some shady **** going on, to be sure, but not every monetization is shady.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
08.18.2019 , 11:01 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by XxHazenxX View Post
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, buuuut the devs work and have always worked for EA, and EA works for $$$$ alone, not us. At this point, I think we should remember that instead.
If you look up cynicism in the dictionary, you'll find this quote.
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

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psandak's Avatar


psandak
08.18.2019 , 11:12 AM | #46
I am a person who was a subscriber since day 1, who finally ended their sub in June 2018 (honestly, stopped playing in April 2018). When I heard about the expansion I made the decision to re-sub for the expansion and here I am.

I do not think this game has improved much at all. I think it has the same problems it has had for several years now. First let me say though that I completely accept the one-story-for-all model. I know that to maintain 8 stories was impossible; if they tried we'd probably still be in the RotHC era. That said, It's been two full years since the last expansion, with a drip of new content throughout. GC at 5.0 launch was a factor in the mass exodus, but not the sole problem. They expect us to play through the same content 50 times over and like it. They tout "choices that matter" that in the end don't. The F2P/sub model has too many limits/punishments on the former instead of enticements/rewards on the latter.

Chances are that my 60 day sub will come and go, during which time I will do the story a few times and maybe raid a little, and then I will go back to preferred status and play the story on alts until the next big expansion...probably two years from now. EA/Bioware will get $30 from me and no more.
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FourPawnBenoni's Avatar


FourPawnBenoni
08.18.2019 , 12:03 PM | #47
There is no doubt the game has improved. This isn't about being negative or positive.

The truth of the matter is that despite improvements, they constantly do dumb stuff that drives people away and take forever to make an adjustment.

Its just a fact, that a lot of people left after 5.0...turned off by RNG & 300 levels of CXP. They actually thought it was a good system and released it. I had a look at closed beta and immediately reported feedback on the forums in SEPTEMBER about it being a terrible idea. Not only got ignored, it got removed.

It took months for them to adjust things and it still sucks compared to 4.0 era of gearing. It takes just way too long.

Also, they are clueless on class balance. Mercs got released and immediately everyone knew they were OP but it took 11 months for a nerf.

Lesson to take a way from this? Hope for the best but expect the worst. I've very doubtful on the new gear stuff (amplifiers and whatnot) because it already looks like some classes are looking like they've got some OP stuff to choose from while other classes are going to still suck. If I had confidence the devs would be making changes each week to tighten up balance I would be much more optimistic. Possibility they are adjusting things that frequently? Pretty much zilch.

How many months will it take to fix it, meanwhile, warzones are trash because of FOTM?

Thepyrethatburns's Avatar


Thepyrethatburns
08.18.2019 , 12:09 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
If you look up cynicism in the dictionary, you'll find this quote.
Count me as cynical as well then.

I try not to comment too much on the new expansion because these forums are way too negative as it is. However, I'm not getting a good vibe from the GR system and the new gearing system. I recognize how haphazard the GC system was implemented and I welcome a reduction in currencies. I also understand that, as EA is going to be required to reveal the odds on it's lootboxes by the end of 2020, they're looking to replace lootbox systems.

But, all the same, "I've got a bad feeling about this".
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XxHazenxX's Avatar


XxHazenxX
08.18.2019 , 01:23 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
If you look up cynicism in the dictionary, you'll find this quote.
Nah just being realistic and looking at the game, it's situation, and it's creators from an objective POV.
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robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
08.19.2019 , 08:56 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by FourPawnBenoni View Post
There is no doubt the game has improved. This isn't about being negative or positive.

The truth of the matter is that despite improvements, they constantly do dumb stuff that drives people away and take forever to make an adjustment.

Its just a fact, that a lot of people left after 5.0...turned off by RNG & 300 levels of CXP. They actually thought it was a good system and released it. I had a look at closed beta and immediately reported feedback on the forums in SEPTEMBER about it being a terrible idea. Not only got ignored, it got removed.

It took months for them to adjust things and it still sucks compared to 4.0 era of gearing. It takes just way too long.

Also, they are clueless on class balance. Mercs got released and immediately everyone knew they were OP but it took 11 months for a nerf.

Lesson to take a way from this? Hope for the best but expect the worst. I've very doubtful on the new gear stuff (amplifiers and whatnot) because it already looks like some classes are looking like they've got some OP stuff to choose from while other classes are going to still suck. If I had confidence the devs would be making changes each week to tighten up balance I would be much more optimistic. Possibility they are adjusting things that frequently? Pretty much zilch.

How many months will it take to fix it, meanwhile, warzones are trash because of FOTM?
So now we get to the root of the issue, eh? It doesn't matter what they do, because FotM has always, and will always be a thing where one can build their own classes. There will always be those players that take the system they are given and milk every possible advantage out of it. It's interesting to note, however, that the gearing system has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not like there weren't nerfs to classes before 4.0 in an attempt to combat just that, right? "(Insert class here) is OP and needs to be nerfed" has been a rallying cry in games with classes and PvP since it was introduced as a whole, let alone in swtor.

Edit to copy/paste quoted post, just in case...
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?