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Dps guard must be reworked (Nerfed)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Dps guard must be reworked (Nerfed)

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
04.01.2020 , 09:21 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I will start off again with my personal indifference in what they do with dps guard, particularly if it is tied to an antifocus for my dps guardian.

snip

Long story short - I tend to agree that most people who have issues with guard coming from a dps are just bad dps to begin with.
How the hades does it make them a poor DPS to use the skills in their toolkit? is a DPS that off heals bad? Do you put tape over your heals on a sorc? Why shouldnt other classes have similar mechanics?
Guard IS the problem, and you keep dismissing it as though you dont care.
Look at the complaints... 2 PTs cross guarding... no one cares about taunt and such as they work how they should.
These games are already so dumbed down, why make everything a face tank?
Floplag - Merc/Mando
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
04.01.2020 , 11:18 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Floplag View Post
How the hades does it make them a poor DPS to use the skills in their toolkit? is a DPS that off heals bad? Do you put tape over your heals on a sorc? Why shouldnt other classes have similar mechanics?
Guard IS the problem, and you keep dismissing it as though you dont care.
Look at the complaints... 2 PTs cross guarding... no one cares about taunt and such as they work how they should.
These games are already so dumbed down, why make everything a face tank?
You misunderstand. I think the people that cant figure out how to kill a dps guarding another dps are bad, not the dps doing the guarding

My point with taunt is that everyone is here moaning about guard, when I have personally out protected all of those screenshots without using guard once. The obvious implication should be simple but since the moaners seem challenged, I think they see protection numbers and assume guard, completely ignoring the fact that the person can taunt.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
04.02.2020 , 08:35 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
You misunderstand. I think the people that cant figure out how to kill a dps guarding another dps are bad, not the dps doing the guarding

My point with taunt is that everyone is here moaning about guard, when I have personally out protected all of those screenshots without using guard once. The obvious implication should be simple but since the moaners seem challenged, I think they see protection numbers and assume guard, completely ignoring the fact that the person can taunt.
Perhaps, but the difference is one requires actions and brains, the other does not. Many do assume guard im sure that true, but if you look at the argument the issues is teams with 2 PTs cross guarding for example, which is silly.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
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septru's Avatar


septru
04.02.2020 , 09:51 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
You misunderstand. I think the people that cant figure out how to kill a dps guarding another dps are bad, not the dps doing the guarding

My point with taunt is that everyone is here moaning about guard, when I have personally out protected all of those screenshots without using guard once. The obvious implication should be simple but since the moaners seem challenged, I think they see protection numbers and assume guard, completely ignoring the fact that the person can taunt.
There are a few distinctions here.

1) You are in regs. Among a bunch of other things such as lower skill level, yatta, yatta, yatta... there should be enough damage to even kill a guarded player through guard (assuming there are 4+ dps focusing on the one player through guard).

2) Taunt is 25% damage reduced overall. Guard is 50% damage reduced overall. Of course this damage does not go away, it just gets transferred to the guarding player. But when a dps guards another dps they can always mitigate the damage they are taking because of guard with their own defenses, in this case a powertech's energy shield or power lode.

In the end, what generally happens, what players are complaining about, is that the team with more offguards (at least in solo ranked) wins. Generally, in games where there is 1 healer but no tank, you focus one player down to 20% health. At that moment he will get guard, forcing the enemy team to swap to the guarding player, but the guarding player is at 100% health with all his CDs so he is difficult to kill. And finally when you get through his CDs and get him down to 20% health, he gets guarded by the guy that he was guarding but now has all his health and CDs back. This is cross guarding. This is the true issue with dps guarding eachother.
-Prum
The only real top 3 operative btw

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
04.02.2020 , 11:41 AM | #15
Guard is redirected damage - the person doing the guarding is taking more damage than the would be otherwise.

Taunting is the truly braindead thing to me, because all it involves is pushing a button that is off the GCD and can be spammed on cooldown.

2 or more guards on one team and not another is a matchmaking problem more than a guard problem, just like having 3 mercs was last year.

Ps - I actually have participated in solo ranked this season, and no I'm not telling you on what toon.

Pps: all that said, and as I have already said, I really couldn't care less what they do with dps guard. They want to remove or nerf it, whatever. Maybe without the group utility, my class can finally get antifocus.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
04.03.2020 , 12:05 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
There are a few distinctions here.

1) You are in regs. Among a bunch of other things such as lower skill level, yatta, yatta, yatta... there should be enough damage to even kill a guarded player through guard (assuming there are 4+ dps focusing on the one player through guard).

2) Taunt is 25% damage reduced overall. Guard is 50% damage reduced overall. Of course this damage does not go away, it just gets transferred to the guarding player. But when a dps guards another dps they can always mitigate the damage they are taking because of guard with their own defenses, in this case a powertech's energy shield or power lode.

In the end, what generally happens, what players are complaining about, is that the team with more offguards (at least in solo ranked) wins. Generally, in games where there is 1 healer but no tank, you focus one player down to 20% health. At that moment he will get guard, forcing the enemy team to swap to the guarding player, but the guarding player is at 100% health with all his CDs so he is difficult to kill. And finally when you get through his CDs and get him down to 20% health, he gets guarded by the guy that he was guarding but now has all his health and CDs back. This is cross guarding. This is the true issue with dps guarding eachother.
Why you even try to explain this to people that never play ranked.. What you say here is totally science fiction for them, but I love how accurately you've described what happens in ranked games.

I think the reason they don't bother to remove guard from DPS is because the only people that seemed to be affected by it are ranked players, and if you look at how much % those players are from the total player base... Maybe for them it's not worth bothering, but who knows.

Also dps guarding was an idiotic feature added in 5.0 I think and everything was fine for years until it got implemented, people were playing fine without it , but I see... some people now obsessively say it' shouldn't be removed.
Darth Malgus Server
Delusional Marauder Main

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
04.03.2020 , 12:19 AM | #17
Then maybe *gasp* BW should account for guard in matchmaking so you dont end up with 3 PTs on one team and 2, I dont know pick something without a guard on another. Go back to complaining about matchmaking and class stacking.

omaan's Avatar


omaan
04.03.2020 , 05:33 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Then maybe *gasp* BW should account for guard in matchmaking so you dont end up with 3 PTs on one team and 2, I dont know pick something without a guard on another. Go back to complaining about matchmaking and class stacking.
Thats not only pt. Yes two ap pts + healer can win ANYTHING. It can win a team with real skank tank, 2 dps and a healer, it can win easily 4 strong dps (sins and operatives), it can win anything. But other guarding dps are also an auto win in heal games. Once again if one ranked team has 2 guarding dps and a healer and another team doesn't have two guarding dps, the first team will WIN EASILY. Team without cross-guard has no chances.

Ranked, indeed turned into char swap show - when players see healers queuing they relog on pts and juggs. When players see that healers are not queuing they relog to sin, opers and sorcs. How is this supposed to be right? Why ap pt is auto win in games with healers and guard but auto lose in games with no guard?? This is ridiculous because skill doesn't matter now - only team comp matters
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
04.03.2020 , 06:45 AM | #19
Then maybe team comp should be considered in matchmaking

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
04.03.2020 , 08:53 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Then maybe team comp should be considered in matchmaking
This is fair, but like many other ideas on the topic we simple dont have the population at this point to implement such things without significant increases in an already lengthy queue.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
Referral link, cause why not: http://www.swtor.com/r/wdLxth