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If I Hated the Jedi Knight Story...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
If I Hated the Jedi Knight Story...

krakadyla's Avatar


krakadyla
05.25.2015 , 09:58 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
even from tython on BW is pretty much telling you that your character is EXTRAORDINARY. you casually force lift a rock on a planetary quest line that you're told after only a master should have been able to lift)
And that's the problem. You know, good ol' saying "Show, don't tell"? So yeah... as soon as JK's puny level 1 arse lands on Tython, everyone - including the bloody whole Jedi Council - immediately starts kissing it while telling how, like, totally awesome and stuff you are...except that you do not do anything that would earn such a grandiosely slobbery arse-kissing. That rock? Ain't exclusive to Knights, Consulars can fling it too. Also, Consulars do a lot of cool stuff while also growing as characters, while the Knight never evolves -- how can he, when he was created already perfect (at level 1 to that!)?

OrinVlado's Avatar


OrinVlado
05.25.2015 , 10:45 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyrrant View Post
And a special note should be made towards how the villains are portrayed. Sure, pretty much every Sith you run into (with a few exceptions) is irredeemably evil, and probably wouldn't mind kicking a puppy if they had the chance, but A: They're Sith, and B: they're COMPETENT.

Some other stories (coughSithWarriorcough) portrays the enemy as incompetent idiots, overconfident ***** or laughably in over their heads. The Jedi Knight story makes the Sith scary. They get wins, they overpower the Knight and other Jedi, they kill a TON of people. Because the enemies are portrayed so powerful and competent, when you do win it feels stronger, more momentous.
Dude you hit the nail on the head. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that way about the SW story. And the whole "puppet for a hutt disguised as a sith" thing is super annoying and I think a waste of the warrior's power. Another reason why I think the SI story is miles above the SW.

And to the OP, I would recommend the SI story if you're wanting something that's different, good, and has a lot of the "mysteries of the force" vibe to it. Other than that I would go with the agent, bounty hunter, or smuggler. Agent is definitely the best of those three (it's my third favorite behind the SI and the JK). It has got some crazy awesome plot twists in it. But like everyone said, it would probably be best to wait till you done with most, if not, all the other class stories. I just finished it and I only have the trooper story left.

CloudCastle's Avatar


CloudCastle
05.25.2015 , 02:33 PM | #23
The exact opposite of the Knight story would probably be agent and smuggler. In both of those stories you are the underdog, always underestimated, and barely getting by through your wits and skill alone. The agent though has a desperate, tragic air to it, while the smuggler's story is more of a hilarious mad-cap adventure. Both stories give you a different feel depending on whether you lean light or dark, unlike the Knight and Consular stories, which strain believability if you go dark. Trooper is also interesting, because of the morality choices, and the way you can either play a die-hard loyalist following orders, or more of a rogue element taking control under duress. I also enjoyed the warrior very much. You get the power trip of the knight but with more surprises, and you can choose to kill with impunity or corrupt people to your side as your minions.

galaxiesbeyond's Avatar


galaxiesbeyond
05.25.2015 , 03:23 PM | #24
The Jedi Knight story was the first one I played and finished, way back in 2012. I had read that it was the "hero's story" and basically KOTOR 3, so I was excited to choose that one first. Needless to say, it was a huge let down. It was so generic and bland, and I too felt that the character was being worshiped for no reason, and the villains were Saturday-morning cartoon types, completely one-dimensional and with motivations that make absolutely no sense. I loved KOTOR 1 and 2, they had a great deal of depth and complexity, and this JK story was absolutely nothing like what KOTOR 3 would have been. It wasn't even as a good as the Luke Skywalker story, which is basically "hero rises out of nowhere and brings down an Empire by redeeming his father".

I actually enjoyed Luke's story, because it wasn't just about Luke at all. It was very much about his long-lost sibling Leia, a couple of rogues they meet along the way who turn out to be essentially decent guys with rough-around-the-edge exteriors (Han and Lando), and generally a group of people (the Rebel Alliance) dedicated to bringing back the Republic. Also, it can't be forgotten who the story was really about...Darth Vader, a fallen Jedi who held the key to the Empire's defeat in his hands, if only he could remember who he really is and be brought back to that good person he once was. So there are a plenty of reasons why Skywalker's story is superior to the JK story in this game. The only thing I liked about the JK story is Lord Scourge, because he brought some much-needed depth and complexity to such a one-dimensional tired old trope of a story.

Some people have said that they don't like it because it feels like an "epic" a story they would watch someone else going through on-screen, but it doesn't feel that way at all to me. The movies have that feel for me, but not this JK story, this JK story feels like a story for five-year olds. I found the Jedi Consular story to be far more in line with what I expect a Jedi's story to be like. I also liked the Sith Warrior story because it's something that hasn't been done before. For the first time, we get to see things from their perspective, I love the way it gives an inside-look at their culture and how life in the Empire is. It's refreshing to see things from their viewpoint, and I felt very formal as Sith apprentice who has grown up in that culture where strength is valued above all else, and you carry out your master's bidding. It was so immersive playing as someone born into Sith nobility and privilege, who values the hierarchy and goes by the rules of Sith propriety.

There was a part especially, where Darth Baras summons you back to Dromund Kaas at the beginning of chapter 2, and you bow before him and his master Darth Vengean, as they tell you about how they will proceed with Plan Zero. It has so much formality, and it's exactly how I imagined being a Sith is. The only thing I didn't like about it were some of the companions (Vette, who just doesn't fit in with my Sith and Jaesa, who is one-dimensional either way, and whom should have been killed by the Sith warrior at the end of chapter 1, as were Baras' orders. Also, there's that last companion, who's just shoe-horned in for no reason. Quinn and Pierce were the only ones that made any sense. So I would say the weakness of that story is the companions, but really that's the only weakness. The rest of it is done very well, especially if you play as a formal Sith and not one that talks back to superiors and such.

The smuggler story was very light-hearted and definitely not the front burner type story. I chose to play my smuggler as someone who really loves the Republic and not just there to get paid. I really loved the Corso romance, and if you play that way, it works really well with him. I didn't like Risha at first, but then you get to know more about her (end of chapter 1 when she saves her friends), it shows that she isn't that self-centered person you think she is, and she becomes a good friend to my female smuggler. The agent storyline is one where you feel like a lackey to an Empire you once felt loyal to, but then start to question. A fitting end for that is you either break away and go on your own as a rogue, or defect to the Republic. It's a pretty good story in that it ties everything together, and shows that there's a bigger conspiracy out there. The thing I didn't like was the end with the Hunter character, which I felt was totally pointless and unnecessary and didn't make any difference to the story at all.

Then there's the bounty hunter story which is pretty good too. Out of all of them, it has the best companions overall. All five of them I liked, yes, even Skadge, I thought he was funny. There isn't any other story where I liked all five companions, I usually like one or two or three, and not the rest. Sith Inquisitor story is okay, I played as a Sith who doesn't really feel loyal to an Empire that enslaved her, but she does end up working for them, and interprets the Sith Code as gaining personal freedom. For her, unlike my SW, being a Sith is about personal freedom.
That leaves the Trooper story, which is the only one I haven't played all the way through. It seems to be about protecting the Republic, and making choices that aren't so cut and dry like some of the other stories have. I do like the fact that this is another story that hasn't been done before in Star Wars, that we get to see how it is being in the Republic military back when the Republic actually had a real military with real beings and not just a bunch of programmed clones.

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
05.25.2015 , 03:34 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by galaxiesbeyond View Post
The Jedi Knight story was the first one I played and finished, way back in 2012. I had read that it was the "hero's story" and basically KOTOR 3, so I was excited to choose that one first. Needless to say, it was a huge let down. It was so generic and bland, and I too felt that the character was being worshiped for no reason, and the villains were Saturday-morning cartoon types, completely one-dimensional and with motivations that make absolutely no sense. I loved KOTOR 1 and 2, they had a great deal of depth and complexity, and this JK story was absolutely nothing like what KOTOR 3 would have been. It wasn't even as a good as the Luke Skywalker story, which is basically "hero rises out of nowhere and brings down an Empire by redeeming his father".

I actually enjoyed Luke's story, because it wasn't just about Luke at all. It was very much about his long-lost sibling Leia, a couple of rogues they meet along the way who turn out to be essentially decent guys with rough-around-the-edge exteriors (Han and Lando), and generally a group of people (the Rebel Alliance) dedicated to bringing back the Republic. Also, it can't be forgotten who the story was really about...Darth Vader, a fallen Jedi who held the key to the Empire's defeat in his hands, if only he could remember who he really is and be brought back to that good person he once was. So there are a plenty of reasons why Skywalker's story is superior to the JK story in this game. The only thing I liked about the JK story is Lord Scourge, because he brought some much-needed depth and complexity to such a one-dimensional tired old trope of a story.

Some people have said that they don't like it because it feels like an "epic" a story they would watch someone else going through on-screen, but it doesn't feel that way at all to me. The movies have that feel for me, but not this JK story, this JK story feels like a story for five-year olds. I found the Jedi Consular story to be far more in line with what I expect a Jedi's story to be like. I also liked the Sith Warrior story because it's something that hasn't been done before. For the first time, we get to see things from their perspective, I love the way it gives an inside-look at their culture and how life in the Empire is. It's refreshing to see things from their viewpoint, and I felt very formal as Sith apprentice who has grown up in that culture where strength is valued above all else, and you carry out your master's bidding. It was so immersive.

There was a part especially, where Darth Baras summons you back to Dromund Kaas at the beginning of chapter 2, and you bow before him and his master Darth Vengean, as they tell you about how they will proceed with Plan Zero. It has so much formality, and it's exactly how I imagined being a Sith is. The only thing I didn't like about it were some of the companions (Vette, who just doesn't fit in with my Sith and Jaesa, who is one-dimensional either way, and whom should have been killed by the Sith warrior at the end of chapter 1, as were Baras' orders. Also, there's that last companion, who's just shoe-horned in for no reason. Quinn and Pierce were the only ones that made any sense. So I would say the weakness of that story is the companions, but really that's the only weakness. The rest of it is done very well, especially if you play as a formal Sith and not one that talks back to superiors and such.
Crap. Star Wars isn't about Anakin. Not about him only! It's about him AND Palpatine. Perhaps even more so about Palpatine. Without him NOTHING would happen. NOTHING!

Edit: yeah, Consular story is MUCH MUCH more both better and jedi like. The humility, modesty and wisdom is staggering in Consular. That's REAL nobility right there! Sadly, BW decided not to invest much money into it. Hence it became a cult classic(basically). Just imagine how glorious it'd have been if it received the kind of money that JK/SW/IA received. /meh
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

galaxiesbeyond's Avatar


galaxiesbeyond
05.25.2015 , 03:43 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
Crap. Star Wars isn't about Anakin. Not about him only! It's about him AND Palpatine. Perhaps even more so about Palpatine. Without him NOTHING would happen. NOTHING!
True, it is about Palpatine as well, since he is the mastermind behind everything in the movies. Star Wars itself isn't about one person or any group of people, since it's a big universe that encompasses many different eras. But in the era of the movies, Anakin is a main character, though it's true without Palpatine, none of what happened in the movies would have happened.

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
05.25.2015 , 03:46 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by galaxiesbeyond View Post
True, it is about Palpatine as well, since he is the mastermind behind everything in the movies. Star Wars itself isn't about one person or any group of people, since it's a big universe that encompasses many different eras. But in the era of the movies, Anakin is a main character, though it's true without Palpatine, none of what happened in the movies would have happened.
Yeah because there would be no Anakin.

Palpatine is so fkkin awesome!
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
05.25.2015 , 03:48 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
And act 3 SW is handled well?
Other than the choice of Quinn, I think it was ok.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
05.25.2015 , 03:50 PM | #29
I think both SW and SI suffered a same problem.

As a Sith, you only get the choice to betray your master or Thanaton when they turned on you, before that the best thing you could do was set some protection. That's not really the Sith way.

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
05.25.2015 , 03:52 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
Yeah because there would be no Anakin.

Palpatine is so fkkin awesome!
Palpatine is... well, selectively awesome, in my opinion. The worst thing that can happen to any villain in Star Wars, and in many other properties too, is victory, as that almost always translates into complacency and fatal pride, and Palpatine fell hard for that.

However, I do find Palpatine's class to be much more fun to play than Darth Vader's.