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[Lethality] Get rid of Toxic Haze

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
[Lethality] Get rid of Toxic Haze

SilverWF's Avatar


SilverWF
10.07.2018 , 04:07 PM | #1
Toxic Haze - This skill seems like absolutely not needed and dumb in the Lethality rotation.

So why not just remove it? This would improve rotation like a lot. This would require som other skills change too:

Toxic Haze - removed

Corrosive Dart - damage increased by ~20% This can be added to the Lethal Injectors passive - to make this unique for the Lethality tree

Corrosive Grenade - damage increased by ~20%. Also, 6 sec stun of standard and weak enemies added. This stun may happens only once per 16 sec per target

Toxic Blast - Damage increased by 10-20% or CD reduced to 12 sec. Also no more grants TA

Lethal Proliferation - Corrosive Dart spreading would be added to the Corrosive Grenade, instead of Toxic Haze. It would spread Corrosive Dart from the main target only.

What do you think?

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
10.07.2018 , 04:16 PM | #2
Toxic Haze already isn't a part of the rotation, it's just for AoE situation and it serves that role quite well, I see no reason to remove it all together. Also you want 20% extra damage on all of Lethality's dots?! Are you mental?

SilverWF's Avatar


SilverWF
10.07.2018 , 04:30 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Toxic Haze already isn't a part of the rotation, it's just for AoE situation and it serves that role quite well, I see no reason to remove it all together. Also you want 20% extra damage on all of Lethality's dots?! Are you mental?
Yes, I am mental, glad you asked.
It works fine as extra burst on the stationary targets. Especially paired with Toxic Blast and Lethal Strike. That's why 2 other DOTs need to be increased in the DPS. Maybe not 20%, but 10-15%

I am comparing Lethality rotation with the Sin's Hatred: as a Sin I don't need to do (too much) before rotation...

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
10.07.2018 , 04:34 PM | #4
Lethality is already parsing far more than Hatred, it certainly doesn't need any more sustained dps, it's got that covered. Increasing their dot damage by a whopping 20% is surefire way to make the spec way overpowered.

And Toxic Haze is terrible for single target dps, you're much better off spending your TA's on Corrosive Assault.

SilverWF's Avatar


SilverWF
10.07.2018 , 04:47 PM | #5
So, the only that you disagree with is a damage boost, right?

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
10.07.2018 , 04:50 PM | #6
Well I find the removal of Toxic Haze to be a fairly pointless nerf to AoE dps for operatives, so I don't really see that working either tbh. It's not Operatives have all that amazing AoE dps to start with, and then removing Toxic Haze seems rather harsh. As for moving the dotspread, well that's a bit of a two sided coin, it's nice to have a spammable dotspread, but then the area affected by Toxic Haze versus Grenade does make it a lot easier to spread dots between more distant targets.

Threjyan's Avatar


Threjyan
10.08.2018 , 03:35 AM | #7
i think using toxic haze on lethality rotation is a mistake, you should never use it - apart to farm aoe dmg, i dont see it entering lethality rotation.

i know there is a guide on vulkk website that recomends using that, prolly on a pvp environment it may benefit more when there is a cluster of enemies, but on a single target opponent i dont see the benefit.

from the top parses i see on parsely none uses toxic haze to increase single target dmg.

also, this guide, althought its a little bit outdated (some dmgs i think on toxic blast have been reduced), gives you a fairly idea of how the single target rotation works: http://dulfy.net/2017/08/07/swtor-5-...uide-by-prise/
..The Path Of Excess Leads To The Tower Of Wisdom..

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
10.08.2018 , 08:39 AM | #8
Toxic haze is your dot spread - it's great.

Noxious knives, the old dot spread, is what needs to be removed.
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memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
10.12.2018 , 12:25 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Threjyan View Post
i think using toxic haze on lethality rotation is a mistake, you should never use it - apart to farm aoe dmg, i dont see it entering lethality rotation.
Depends on the situation. many Ops boss fights do have dotspread mechanics and dotspreadin helps fights.

Quote: Originally Posted by Threjyan View Post
i know there is a guide on vulkk website that recomends using that, prolly on a pvp environment it may benefit more when there is a cluster of enemies, but on a single target opponent i dont see the benefit.
That guide is mine, and yes, I use Toxic Haze to allow more burst damage in small «windows», since it reaches up to +12k (and this number is the lowest in my guess since it can go higher) everytime Corrosive Assault is used which is useful for constantly interrupted fights (Operator, Styrak, Tyth and more. These fights are usually interrupted by mechanics).
It has its down times, due to the way my setup works, but doesn't make it useless. Overall it can keep up to 10k+ consistently in operations, which is enough for the hardest content.
And yes, I made it with a mind on PvP (It's not hard to check that due to the way I explained the use of utilities for each category and other topics such as reflect which I focused more about classes than anything els) but the fact that it still deals high damage, makes it work for PvE, as well. Just not in true highest level.
Also, I left a note in it saying that it is not the best guide for PvE ONLY.

Quote: Originally Posted by Threjyan View Post
also, this guide, althought its a little bit outdated (some dmgs i think on toxic blast have been reduced), gives you a fairly idea of how the single target rotation works: http://dulfy.net/2017/08/07/swtor-5-...uide-by-prise/
That is the the more complex and complete guide to PvE although if you try for PvP? It loses a lot more compared to mine. I've tried it many times.


Anyway, into the topic:
- If the dotspread went back to Noxious knives, Lethality would lose a lot, since it was buggy (75% - 80% of the times wouldn't work) thus lose potential DPS.
- If it went back to Corrosive Grenade, it would make the spec rather broken regarding dotspreading, thus Lethality would be gaining/losing too much DPS potential. Devs had to tweak around to balance the effectiveness of this and honestly, considering the history of the spec, it would be the nerf hammer that would fall.
- Toxic Haze is the middle ground and honestly it is still very good since it can also be affected by Toxic Blast and Corrosive Assault which turns it into a sort of 3rd dot. It also ticks higher when compared to Corrosive Dart and Corrosive Grenade and it deals same damage(or approximately the same) in its full duration as the other 2 dots but in a much shorter timespan.

memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
10.12.2018 , 12:53 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by SilverWF View Post
Toxic Haze - This skill seems like absolutely not needed and dumb in the Lethality rotation.
It's not dumb and it is useful due to the large area it can cover.

Quote: Originally Posted by SilverWF View Post
Corrosive Dart - damage increased by ~20% This can be added to the Lethal Injectors passive - to make this unique for the Lethality tree

Corrosive Grenade - damage increased by ~20%. Also, 6 sec stun of standard and weak enemies added. This stun may happens only once per 16 sec per target
A 20% DPS increase in each dot is +2k in each. Both dots atm deal 10k each in its full duration. in the end you'd be making from 20k up to 24k. That's no difference at all in the long run. Your dots would tick +500, at most, than they do atm. If anything, the better suggestion would be making the dots shorter in their duration( from 24s to 18s f.e.) due to what you are proposing below.

Quote: Originally Posted by SilverWF View Post
Toxic Blast - Damage increased by 10-20% or CD reduced to 12 sec. Also no more grants TA
How the hell would you keep up the damage if you lose your second TA generator?
Shiv has a 6s CD and Fatality gives 1 TA every 10s so within 15s, you gain 3 TAs at most. With Toxic Blast, as it is now, you gain 4 TAs.

Quote: Originally Posted by SilverWF View Post
Lethal Proliferation - Corrosive Dart spreading would be added to the Corrosive Grenade, instead of Toxic Haze. It would spread Corrosive Dart from the main target only.

What do you think?
I've written what I think about this and the consequences in the previous reply to another. Check it and you'll understand.