Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Operative/Scoundrel Heals are in desperate need of a buff.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Operative/Scoundrel Heals are in desperate need of a buff.

Zero_Unlimited's Avatar


Zero_Unlimited
04.11.2017 , 10:06 AM | #1
This is from a pvp point of view. Operative healers are lackluster in many areas. The problem with operatives vs the other two classes is that operatives have weak burst healing and terrible survivibilty.

1) Operatives have no burst healing outside of stim boost/pugnacity evey 2 minutes (~1min 45 sec with alacrity) and this is only if the following kolto injection/underworld medicine crits. In this high-burst, mercenary-filled meta you've created bioware, tickling our allies with heals over time (hots) just isn't doing the job to keep people alive. Kolto probe/Slow-Release Medpack takes ~17 seconds (with alacrity) at 2 stacks to heal the damage that one dps can do in a single global cooldown. This ability is comparable to sorcerer's bubble, which is one gcd that prevents > 10k damage in a single gcd.

Here is an example to illustrate my point. I was in an odessen earlier today and an ally of mine was at low health being attacked by ONE mercenary. I had two stacks of kolto probe/slow-release medpack on him, and was using kolto infusion/Kolto pack on cooldown along with recuperative nanotech/kolto cloud. I was Spamming kolto injection/underworld medicine on this target and following up with a surgical probe/emergency medpack and I could not out heal the mercenaries damage. I used stim boost/pugnacity for an instant emergency heal, which didn't crit, and my target still died. Even during the two times the enemy was hard-stunned and did not break out of it. My target eventually died, I could not heal him above 50% health. I doubt a sorcerer would have had the same problem.

Playing an operative healer in solo-ranked is the worst. 90% of the healers you encounter in ranked are sorcerers, who have godly burst-heal with roaming mend and bubble which instantly prevents/heals a high amount of damage. If operative can't keep up with one mercenaries burst damage, then there's no way it can compete with 1 or 2 mercenaries that you encounter (on average) in 3 dps 1 heal ranked games. I've had people leave games and /stuck in the first round as soon as they entered combat merely for seeing that they had an operative and not a sorcerer on their team. Sadly, I don't blame them I don't even know why I bother queuing ranked on my operative healer.

2) The second issue with operative healers in pvp is their poor survivability. The other two healers, mercenaries and sorcerers have talents that give a passive 30% damage reduction while stunned. Operatives have no such passive ability, and as consequence they are prone to being chain-stunned and globaled, especially by a coordinated ranked team. Another issue that plague operative's survivability is that unlike the other two healing clases, operatives have no emergency cooldown, that they can use while stunned, which forces the enemy team to stop attacking them. Mercenaries can use responsive safeguards to force the enemy team to switch targets or cc and Sorcerers can use force barrier and are immune to damage. Operatives get destroyed if their stun-breaker is on cooldown. You might argue that "operatives can cloak out and this stops them from getting focused." While that statement is partially true, the cloak out cannot be used while stunned, and in this FOTM Mercenary meta where electronets run rampant, there's a good chance that you'll be netted if you're already white barred and getting tunneled, preventing you from using your cloak out. Yes, sorcerers have the same problem of not being able to barrier while electronetted, however sorcer has the burst heal capability to survive long enough to outlive the net.

In conclusion, operative heals suck in pvp, please buff. Give us better survivability and burst healing. If you still don't believe that operative heals suck look at the ranked leaderboards. Currently operative is the LOWEST ranking class of them all! The top operative's ranking is ~500 below the top ranked players from the other advanced classes and ~1500 below the top sorcerer! The highest ranked operative is the ranked 48th over all advanced classes, and the second highest ranked operative is rank 96th. Clearly, there is a problem here.

Eli_Porter's Avatar


Eli_Porter
04.11.2017 , 10:17 AM | #2
The problem is that you're comparing yourself to mercs and heal sorcs, which are 2/3 of the fotm trifecta. Priority should be on nerfing mercs, heal sorcs, and eng snipers first.

GUN_GAME's Avatar


GUN_GAME
04.11.2017 , 01:22 PM | #3
Hello, i am that operative healer tryhard who is in top1 operative in s-r atm and top1 scoundrel in t-r.
Here are the main problems i have while qing for arenas.
1) Operative burst healing is really good IF YOU NOT GET INTERRUPTED, so in very crit situation when im 100% need to get my cast of, i always get interrupted and my teammate is dying, and i cant do anything to prevent it (no interrupt immunity at all, wtb it on stim boost tho)
2) Survivability. I dont have any problems with it, i can live under focus same amount of time as sorc, so there are no problems with survivng focus (ye need to be very careful with your ccbreaker) just learn to kite and u good.
3) Emmm no other real problems, i lose in t-r games only because enemy team rotate x4 interupts on my single target healz (Kolto injection/Kolto infusion)

So the real problem for me is that i always get interrupted in critical situation and cant cast **** (had t-r game when enemy team interrupted x6 my single target healz in a row(x4 interrrupts + 2 hardstuns), and we died cuz i just couldnt heal ppl, while sorc heal could just use MLG NO SCOPE 360 INSTANT roaming mend with x4 20k crit healz kappa, and i dont even mention polarity shift they have)

#nerfsorchealers, tbh im just salty that sorcs so easy to play and they best healers in arenas in same time.
In 8v8 good operative healer way more usefull than sorc.

P.S Sorry for pleb english xd
Katrin'ka - DM

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
04.12.2017 , 06:48 AM | #4
Operatives have always been a very strong class. The only thing that truly needs change is the fact they have literally no interrupt immunity. This wasn't a big deal in 3.0 where the meta was cleave and you kept everyone up with HoTs; you really never needed to cast heal. After 4.0 things changed, now you are forced to cast heal constantly which makes interrupts hurt a lot. In group rank this gimp makes them unplayable vs. a competitive team who rotates interrupts 3-4 constantly while constantly mezing/hardstunning on CD. Operative in enjoyable and strong till every cast heal gets interrupted and you aren't able to get a heal off for 50% of the game. There is literally nothing in an Operative play book that helps in this situation.

If the developers cared they could just remove interrupt immunity from Sorcs (so they could at least be on the same playing field; they really don't need it anymore) or give an ability/utility that allows operative healers to have interrupt immunity. If they really don't think its necessary please come do group ranked verse competitive players who rotate interrupts healing on an Operative healer. I can't stress how not fun it is to sit through white bar after white bar with interrupts rotated on you as a Operative. The healer in broken at that point.

In other categorizes like survivabilty or healing in general they are balanced. There are slightly strengths and weaknesses to their abilities but its not game breaking like no interrupt immunity is.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that I’ve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

Terrimando's Avatar


Terrimando
04.12.2017 , 10:22 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Eli_Porter View Post
The problem is that you're comparing yourself to mercs and heal sorcs, which are 2/3 of the fotm trifecta. Priority should be on nerfing mercs, heal sorcs, and eng snipers first.
do you really think "nerf" a class is the right answer. I dont' think it ever is...why not bring up the classes rather than being negative with nerfs.

nobody likes nerfs. nobody likes havign to grind to GC 300+ and then have that class "nerfed"

truly think about what you are asking for and if it's a good user experience that will keep players playing the game.

aristrokratie's Avatar


aristrokratie
04.16.2017 , 10:58 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Terrimando View Post
do you really think "nerf" a class is the right answer. I dont' think it ever is...why not bring up the classes rather than being negative with nerfs.

nobody likes nerfs. nobody likes havign to grind to GC 300+ and then have that class "nerfed"

truly think about what you are asking for and if it's a good user experience that will keep players playing the game.
Tbh, looking at the dmg meta right now, I feel like sorc and merc (apart from def) heals are balanced and the op is underpowered. You simply cannot heal through the single target burst, even less so if you are interrupted and your ****** defense can't be compensated by kiting, since melees right now have 100000 gap closers, slows and roots to prevent you from rolling, not to mention how incredibly effective e-net and sniper area ''move with 1 cm/s'' crap are at keeping you where you are, while you recieve the burst of your short life.

It's not about the healing itself, it's okay how it is (maybe a little more st heals), it's about survivability, since sniper, merc, mara can just rape you.

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
04.16.2017 , 12:44 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by aristrokratie View Post
Tbh, looking at the dmg meta right now, I feel like sorc and merc (apart from def) heals are balanced and the op is underpowered. You simply cannot heal through the single target burst, even less so if you are interrupted and your ****** defense can't be compensated by kiting, since melees right now have 100000 gap closers, slows and roots to prevent you from rolling, not to mention how incredibly effective e-net and sniper area ''move with 1 cm/s'' crap are at keeping you where you are, while you recieve the burst of your short life.

It's not about the healing itself, it's okay how it is (maybe a little more st heals), it's about survivability, since sniper, merc, mara can just rape you.
As an Operative you shouldn't be dying to anything ranged. You just stand by LoS and you wont be killed by range just like any other healer. Operative are more depended on good positioning than a sorc or merc since your DCDs don't give you another life if you get caught out. Operative DCDs aren't underpowered they are fair to the class. The only reason Sorcs feel stronger is because their heals mechanically are just better for PvP because they have great AoE/single target burst as well as interrupt immunity. If their heals didn't work the way they do in PvP, trust me their defensive would feel like trash.

I barely die on my Operative healing you just need to go full defensive in your utility tree.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that I’ve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

aristrokratie's Avatar


aristrokratie
04.16.2017 , 03:55 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
As an Operative you shouldn't be dying to anything ranged. You just stand by LoS and you wont be killed by range just like any other healer. Operative are more depended on good positioning than a sorc or merc since your DCDs don't give you another life if you get caught out. Operative DCDs aren't underpowered they are fair to the class. The only reason Sorcs feel stronger is because their heals mechanically are just better for PvP because they have great AoE/single target burst as well as interrupt immunity. If their heals didn't work the way they do in PvP, trust me their defensive would feel like trash.

I barely die on my Operative healing you just need to go full defensive in your utility tree.
Dying to ranged is sadly reality now, this has been established by the sniper/merc ultra slow meta (aoe field, 70% slow on unload).
Kiting around a pillar is simply impossible if you have to do that with 30% movement speed.
Funnily, rolling outside it often results in rubberbanding, so often times, if the pillar is not directly in front of you, you shouldn't even bother anyway, if you roll out, gg you've made the sniper waste a gcd on placing his garbage aoe under your feet again, while others still can attack you or you simply stand there and take the hits.
Using your roll twice to get away can put you into a dangereous position from which you might not be able to walk into healing los quickly enough to save someone from dying.
Surely, you can play this game for some time, but you will only delay your death (not implying a sniper or merc can easily solokill ophealers, but you will still have a hard time kiting one of those classes, rip if there's a second competent dps focusing, interrupting and stunning you). The fun kicks in when you have to also keep other people alive at the same time .

Kiting is the only thing that we could do to stay alive under pressure, this is now really hard to do due to an excessive amount of slows and roots, only becoming more prominent every new expansion.
The damage marauders can dish out while passively reducing your healing and sticking to you butt like glue is also something you can't ignore. I could kite them for quite some time but that's of no use if your team dies. You yourself acknkowledged that the ops inability to keep up single targets while under pressure or yourself while kiting is a problem!

Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
5.0 Operative/Scoundrel Healers PvP – What I like to See
[...] By only giving us the only option which is to stand still and cast heal to “burst” a target up who is low, it puts us in an extreme disadvantage compared to other healing classes because we are the only class which doesn’t have interrupt immunity. This again, wasn’t an issue pre-3.0 because if you had good awareness and HoT management you can keep up HoTs through CC rotations on yourself. Because of how good HoTs were pre-3.0 this took out the blow of having to catch up in HPS out of CC since your HoTs healed for a higher percent based players HP pool and Surgical/Emergency Medpac healing was impactful enough to save targets who were below 30%. Having to stand still and cast healing repeatably puts us in a position where we are easily interrupted since our Injection/Underworld Medicine is an atrociously long cast. What if you are interrupted? Then what? The target dies (just imagine if you are the only healer in the warzone and have to burst heal 7 targets, good luck). There is literally nothing in an Operative/Scoundrel utilities or abilities that can helps in this situation.

I know what you’re thinking. What about Stim boost? You can get a free instant cast Injection/Underworld Medicine. This doesn’t even come close to the closing the gushing wound that is our burst healing capability. Cool, an ability that can heal for 6K-20K [now 8- 30k] every couple of minutes which mitigates maybe 1 burst ability (MAYBE). THIS. IS. NOT. ENOUGH.

Thanks.
I am sorry to bring this monstrosity from the graveyard of ageold posts but nothing has changed since then! Where's the Hottie that critically looked at the ops state instead of instantly whiteknighting and dismissing people voicing honest criticism?

Don't misunderstand me, it's adorable how you always rush in and give tips on how not to suck. (If I were a new player, crying about how the mean dot powertech kills me again and again, it would be much appreciated!)
This is not about warzones.

If you still play solo as an operative (haven't checked your stream for quite a while) you will know that ops being equally viable as sorcs and mercs is simply not true. I hate to bring leaderboards into this discussion (since effort, q syncing etc. can really distort rating~skill ratio), but #1 sorcheal is at 4269 and #1 ophealer at 2516 (funfact, lowest highest class rating), a discrepancy as big as this cannot be ignored.
Our healing only works in combination with a decent tank and a group that peels for you during e-net and stunlock and knows their defensive cooldowns really well.
You also have to be pretty lucky with enemy interrupts to keep the heals rolling or people will die.

All those restrictions don't apply as harshly to the sorc and to some extent the merchealer.

Hottie, I know you hate it when people call the operative underpowered, you are very humble in that regard, telling people you yourself are doing great, not because an underperforming class works well with your skill, but because the class is fine.
My perspective on this issue, in order to determine whether a class is under or overpowered, is quite straight forward.

Does it perform well on its own?

The answer for the operative is clearly no, since many factor have to be in your favor in order to achieve results comparable to sorcerer and mercenary healers. It is not the question of potential power (the op has very powerful healing) but average performance under pressure, and in that regard it is lacking.

Operative works very well for regs since you can just outplay the bads and is perfectly viable for team ranked when playing with a competent group;
The healing potetial of this class is not something that can be laughed at, but once you are on your own things can get much much uglier. I have been playing op and sorchealer since 1.2, they both had their ups and downs, but they are far from being equally viable and effective right now.

The real question is, wheter ops are UP or sorcs and (mercheals to a somewhat lesser extent) are OP. Looking at the current anti movement heavy burst meta, I doubt that sorcs are that op.

Eli_Porter's Avatar


Eli_Porter
04.16.2017 , 04:33 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Terrimando View Post
do you really think "nerf" a class is the right answer. I dont' think it ever is...why not bring up the classes rather than being negative with nerfs.

nobody likes nerfs. nobody likes havign to grind to GC 300+ and then have that class "nerfed"

truly think about what you are asking for and if it's a good user experience that will keep players playing the game.
Truly think about whether or not having healers with an endless supply of defensive cooldowns is a good thing.

Trying to kill a good operative can get annoying. Trying to kill a good Sorc/Merc can get miserable. Nerfing the correct classes is a better alternative to making the PvP experience more miserable.

Kyuuu's Avatar


Kyuuu
04.16.2017 , 05:46 PM | #10
what no, there more annoying to kill then sorcs, the dont need buffs of any kind to heals, heals as it is pvp way over tunned to point the the bad healers annoyying to kill and good ones and almost impossible to kill.

I still think all HEAL SKILL'S should be tied to heal spec and taunt and guard tied to tank spec