Interrupting TM destroys any chance of scoring a kill on a target. We need TM to power up HSM and RS, which are our only viable means of doing any damage to a target. It's like dispelling Immolate for Destruction Warlocks in WoW.

 

Not to mention that interrupts are hardly noticeable to the BH at all. There is no obvious way to tell if you've been interrupted or if you've successfully juked an interrupt. The only way to tell is to check your quickbar. Make interrupts more noticeable to players, whether they be successful or unsuccessful.

 

Ability delay on Arsenal abilities makes any kind of kiting pointless, since melee will be on us before our first TM/PS/Unload fires. We have to wait half a second after stopping before we can even begin to cast an ability, and then another half second before the cast will even begin.

 

Unload is a terrible ability in PvP, rooting us to one spot for 3 seconds. And yet we have to use this ability for heat management and damage, which also lowers our Tracer Lock stack for RS. Yes the snare is useful but only if the target isn't already on you, and you won't be using it to get away from a melee that's on you.

 

Overheating is a common problem in PvP. It's easy to overheat on a single target trying to kill it, only for the target to run out of range, and another fresh target to jump you while you wait to cool down.

 

Concussion missile is barely worth using. A 2 second cast on a 45 second CD. Lower the cast time to 1.5 seconds and remove the cooldown, and we'll have an option for multiple targets beating on us. Jet boost should have also snare all affected targets for a short period.

 

7/12/12 Edit:

The talent Power Barrier should be buffed to 4% less damage taken per stack, maxing at 20%, as well as lowering the lockout duration of interrupted abilities by 10% per stack, maxing at 50%.

I've decided that this one change is all we need to be balanced in PvP. Make this happen and Arsenal will be fine.

 

Oh and this:

Tracer Missile should have it's animation change reverted.

Edited July 12, 2012 by fujeo-finel

Some decent points. arsenal is a kinda gimped one trick pony in pvp however it's not as bad as you make it out.

 

Heat, for example, is not an issue with arsenal. It's probably the most resource efficient spec I've played in the game, as long as you have plenty of crit and the 15% tracer crit set bonus which is essential. (I still see people using the 4 piece pvp eliminator...that is doing it wrong). You can still pump out unrivalled damage IF left alone, but yeah as you say the moment someone breaths near us we crumble like a piece of paper.

 

In my opinion one of the biggest reasons it seems that mercs are going backwards is because of the large number of fotm sentinels and assassins that people are rolling now. They've always torn us apart, but if there was only 1 or 2 in a warzone then it was manageable. Now you have 5+ on the enemy team in every single wz and it's really showing us up.

I agree with everything you say. All of those issues existed pre 1.2 also, maybe not so many heat issues, But Bio decided to listen to the QQ of all the other class's when all it ever took to stop any Arsenal in pvp was a Interrupt or a knock back or a stun how many class's have that, oh all of them? Now post 1.2c you dont have to try when it comes to killing a BH in pvp trust me and reroll to Mara like they want and see. I interrupt your TM and you are a JOKE but thats where bio wants us for some reason. Edited May 10, 2012 by Hallowtip

+1 i agree.

Heh just remembered Jet Boost already has a 50% snare component. Sure fooled me.

After thinking things through a bit, I've realised the spec needs a workable, reliable snare, and having one would go a long way to solve our problems. So here's my suggestion.

 

Take the snare off Unload and apply it to HSM, buff it to a 50% snare over 4-5 seconds.

Lower the CD of HSM to 10 seconds, which would also give Arsenal a bit more to do besides spamming TM.

 

This will essentially give us the ability to keep a target snared for 50% of the time, which given the amount of gap closers and CC currently in-game, isn't too unreasonable.

After thinking things through a bit, I've realised the spec needs a workable, reliable snare, and having one would go a long way to solve our problems. So here's my suggestion.

 

Take the snare off Unload and apply it to HSM, buff it to a 50% snare over 4-5 seconds.

Lower the CD of HSM to 10 seconds, which would also give Arsenal a bit more to do besides spamming TM.

 

This will essentially give us the ability to keep a target snared for 50% of the time, which given the amount of gap closers and CC currently in-game, isn't too unreasonable.

 

The problem in you suggestion would be that pve arsenal mercs would do way too much dmg if hsm cd was lowered. Don't forget that any change made for pvp is also changed for pve.

Respecced Pyro, the difference is night and day.

 

Why the hell does Arsenal do such crap damage in PvP? TM just doesn't do enough damage for a main, casted ability that isn't supported by any DoTs, and doesn't benefit from any crit modifier talents. If an ability is casted, it needs to be doing more damage than comparable instants, say, instant melee attacks. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about this. Our proc ability Unload is a complete waste of time to use in PvP, compared to Pyro's RS. Thermal Detonator can be used on CD at full damage, whereas HSM needs 5 stacks of heat sigs to do comparable damage, and should be doing a lot more damage with 5 stacks. Pyro has a workable snare, on top of most of it's attacks being instant, yet the spec more reliant on sitting in one spot to cast doesn't have one. Why the hell give a spec that has a wide range on instants a snare, while not giving the spec reliant on casts anything? You cannot hope to do any sort of kiting with a caster class without any kind of reliable snare. Again, what is so hard to understand about this?

Edited May 22, 2012 by fujeo-finel

Knockbacks should not fill resolve, as they do not prevent the target from performing any actions. If knockbacks fill resolve, than interrupts should also fill resolve.

 

The talent Jet Boost should be buffed to reduce the cooldown of Determination by 1min. Most other popular PvP specs have two "trinkets". This will give Arsenal the same amount over time, only you'll only be able to use one at a time.

 

The talent Power Overrides should be buffed to reduce the cooldown of Concussion Charge by 100%. Only one target can be CC'ed with Concussion Missile at a time. Give Arsenal and Gunnery a CC niche.

 

Change Barrage to give Tracer Missile a 33%/66%/100% chance to lower the activation time of your next Unload by 0.5 seconds. Stacks 3 times.

 

Change Riddle to remove the cooldown on Unload.

 

The talent Pinning Fire should be changed to give Heatseeker Missiles a 50%/100% chance to slow the target's movement speed by 50% for 5 seconds. A snare on HSM would be much more useful than on Unload.

 

The talent Power Barrier should be buffed to 4% less damage taken per stack, maxing at 20%, as well as lowering the lockout duration of interrupted abilities by 10% per stack, maxing at 50%.

 

Heatseeker Missiles and Rail Shot should have their cooldowns lowered to 10 seconds.

 

The talent Target Tracking needs to be fixed for Unload.

 

Casting delays after running/stopping need to be fixed. Specifically, interrupting a cast via strafing should also reset the GCD.

 

And finally, Tracer Missile should have it's animation change reverted.

Edited June 24, 2012 by fujeo-finel
Interrupts and resolve

The purpose of BH is supposed to be crazy high dps with low utility (snares/interrupts) that can also be shutdown easy with interrupts. It is based on high risk and reward system to add balance. As it is now the dps is too low; however once buffed, the class will be closer to the design.

The purpose of BH is supposed to be crazy high dps with low utility (snares/interrupts) that can also be shutdown easy with interrupts. It is based on high risk and reward system to add balance. As it is now the dps is too low; however once buffed, the class will be closer to the design.

 

Care to explain why Powertech has crazy dps, interrupt, and utility?

Is this a post about a PvE spec not being viable in PvP encounters?

 

What are the issues with the PvP spec in PvP?

Is this a post about a PvE spec not being viable in PvP encounters?

 

What are the issues with the PvP spec in PvP?

 

It's boring and overused.

Interrupts will be fine to deal with if the delay on Power Shot and Tracer Missile after running/stopping is fixed, and we have a reliable snare to work with. I'd still like to see Unload's channel time reduced to 1.5 seconds on proc as a boost to its PvP viability, at the moment I've specced out of all three Unload talents and never use it in PvP (there is also the suspicions raised on this forum that the talents themselves are broken).

 

The aforementioned ability delay is an important issue to address. As a caster spec, the ideal way to kite is to cast, then move away from the melee you're kiting, then stop to cast again, leading the melee in a pursuit. The caster will still take damage of course, but the idea is to minimise the uptime the melee has on you while maximising your available casting time. This is especially important for high mitigation/low mobility caster archetypes, of which the Arsenal spec fits perfectly (or should). The problem is, after stopping to cast, the game will register that you're still moving for a period of time, in which you cannot begin a cast, giving the melee vital time to catch up to you. And for a caster spec there is very little available time to open casting opportunities.

Edited May 27, 2012 by fujeo-finel

After thinking things through a bit, I've realised the spec needs a workable, reliable snare, and having one would go a long way to solve our problems. So here's my suggestion.

 

Take the snare off Unload and apply it to HSM, buff it to a 50% snare over 4-5 seconds.

Lower the CD of HSM to 10 seconds, which would also give Arsenal a bit more to do besides spamming TM.

 

This will essentially give us the ability to keep a target snared for 50% of the time, which given the amount of gap closers and CC currently in-game, isn't too unreasonable.

 

I think you should duel weld assualt cannons too and fly.

Care to explain why Powertech has crazy dps, interrupt, and utility?

 

They are also very much a melee class.

 

Which means unlike mercs we cant stand from afar to max our DPS. We have to get close and we have to stand up against other melee.

We cant Knockback unlike mercs.

We cant Stun for 60 secs unlike mercs.

We cant heal unlike mercs.

We dont have a moddable off hand unlike mercs

 

So to put it another way, they are different classes.

They are also very much a melee class.

 

Which means unlike mercs we cant stand from afar to max our DPS. We have to get close and we have to stand up against other melee.

We cant Knockback unlike mercs.

We cant Stun for 60 secs unlike mercs.

We cant heal unlike mercs.

We dont have a moddable off hand unlike mercs

 

So to put it another way, they are different classes.

 

That's all good and well. Now tell us about everything you CAN do.

 

But I digress.

Edited May 27, 2012 by fujeo-finel

That's all good and well. Now tell us about everything you CAN do.

 

But I digress.

 

Harpoon(closer)

Burst

interupt

tank

 

But we cant cloak so i should make a post crying about this fact. say how we need a cloak blah blah blah blah

 

l2p

Harpoon(closer)

Burst

interupt

tank

 

But we cant cloak so i should make a post crying about this fact. say how we need a cloak blah blah blah blah

 

l2p

 

 

I've fought a lot of vanguards and powertechs - and you seem to have left out a lot of your abilities. I'm guessing that you need to l2p to get better on your powertech. Heck, you prob even need that cloak.

double post Edited May 29, 2012 by Serpieri

I've fought a lot of vanguards and powertechs - and you seem to have left out a lot of your abilities. I'm guessing that you need to l2p to get better on your powertech. Heck, you prob even need that cloak.

 

yes there are alot of abilities I left out. In fact alot as I can read.

 

I guy was asking what we(PT;s) can do in reply to what I said mercs can do.

Now To take you to school:

Merc/pt Vanguard/commando are the advanced classes but they have the share the same class Bounty hunter/trooper

 

So After "reading" his comment I posted a reply what we can do - and that is pretty much it.

 

But if you do need a list of PT's abilites i sugguest you use google

Take it somewhere else please, this is an Arsenal thread.

One thing I'd like to mention for anyone reading this thread, is that I'm not interested in possible meta DPS nerfs/buffs, but rather mechanics changes to make Arsenal PvP viable, without breaking Arsenal PvE. In my view (limited as it is since I'm not a programmer), DPS shouldn't be too much of a problem to balance around any mechanics changes that do happen, and I wouldn't complain in the case there are nerfs to certain abilities if the mechanics are right.

 

As it stands now, I'll continue to use this thread for Arsenal feedback, particular in regards to PvP. The only PvE change I would like to see is the Tracer Missile animation revert.

I think all you have to do is lower rail shot buff requirement of tracer lock from 5 to 3... that way our rotation is shortened and burst is increased. You might have to down grade the damage of HSM, RS, and/or tracer missile again to make sure that the dps does not go crazy in pve. Shortening our rotation will make us more viable imo.

I think all you have to do is lower rail shot buff requirement of tracer lock from 5 to 3... that way our rotation is shortened and burst is increased. You might have to down grade the damage of HSM, RS, and/or tracer missile again to make sure that the dps does not go crazy in pve. Shortening our rotation will make us more viable imo.

 

Not going to disagree with you there. We don't have much to do in the 15 seconds for HSM/RS to come back up.