TACeMossie Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) The guide has been relocated! Go here to find it! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7660471 (It has pictures ) Edited September 8, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battkg Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 If you actually plan to use mortar volley in a rotation against a raid boss, I suggest moving your filler phase after pulse cannon so that the time spent channeling pulse cannon can be spent aiming mortar volley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) If you actually plan to use mortar volley in a rotation against a raid boss, I suggest moving your filler phase after pulse cannon so that the time spent channeling pulse cannon can be spent aiming mortar volley. The issue with that is if you have to follow up the pulse cannon with a stockstrike (which ends up happening every time mortar volley is off cooldown), one of them would need to be delayed, which drops DPS. Its why I recommended the Ion Pulse just before the double filler - it lets you fall back to 5 meters while backpedalling so you can just double-tap the mortar volley button to auto-aim it. However, said Ion Pulse can be swapped with High Impact Bolt if you are paranoid about the DoT falling off Edited May 27, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battkg Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) I don't require a high impact bolt at the end of the rotation, so I have my abilities in a different order This is the one I use G PC PC MV MV FP SS HiB IP IP G PC PC SS IP FP HS HiB IP SS G PC PC IP HS FP SS HiB IP HS G PC PC SS IP FP HS HiB IP SS Edited May 28, 2014 by battkg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 (edited) I don't require a high impact bolt at the end of the rotation, so I have my abilities in a different order This is the one I use G PC PC MV MV FP SS HiB IP IP G PC PC SS IP FP HS HiB IP SS G PC PC IP HS FP SS HiB IP HS G PC PC SS IP FP HS HiB IP SS There it is. It was your parse that got me to look into including mortar volley for tactics and realised it was a DPS increase. I couldn't find how to fit stockstrike 3 times every 30 seconds while including mortar volley on cooldown without the bad priority above (I was looking at it wrong). Thats a much better rotation priority so Ill fix it up. Edited May 28, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 I have updated the gearing section of the OP to provide more info on gearing for AoE situations, as multiple AoE attacks make up a majority of the damage of the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummerinthesun Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 TAC, I love your posts, man. One thing I think you could add to your gearing section in both guides is what to swap out for the optimal crit rating for both Tactics and Assault for players that want the best spec per fight. Sentinels switch out an earpiece and a enhancement for accuracy, for example, when switching between Combat and other specs. Or perhaps find a happy medium between the two? Say above 200 but below 300? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaredBartok Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm loving the clean 4 block rotation that includes MV, but I have a few questions on implementation. 1) Per my calculations and experimentation, this doesn't seem to be heat neutral rotation. Even with the heat reduction cooldowns, I'm running into heat issues after about 500K damage from this rotation. Am I doing it wrong and this should be sustainable with good execution and proper use of cooldowns? If I am not screwing it up somehow, how do you/would you guys adjust the rotation? There aren't any extra IPs to replace with HS, so the only options I see that would help would be to replace MV or the occasional HiB (or unprocced SS?) with HS. I'm leaning towards skipping every other MV. 2) Since this spec is mostly used in PVE raids for AOE fights with adds, do you change the rotation for more AOE when adds are up? Perhaps by replacing HiB with Explosive Dart (sorry for PT term) when one or more additional targets are in range? Even with the HiB auto crit and armor pen, ED should still do more damage than HiB and adding it is heat neutral I think. if I assume flame sweep is too heat intensive and rotation disruptive to use even with many adds up, right? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummerinthesun Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) I'm loving the clean 4 block rotation that includes MV, but I have a few questions on implementation. 1) Per my calculations and experimentation, this doesn't seem to be heat neutral rotation. Even with the heat reduction cooldowns, I'm running into heat issues after about 500K damage from this rotation. Am I doing it wrong and this should be sustainable with good execution and proper use of cooldowns? If I am not screwing it up somehow, how do you/would you guys adjust the rotation? There aren't any extra IPs to replace with HS, so the only options I see that would help would be to replace MV or the occasional HiB (or unprocced SS?) with HS. I'm leaning towards skipping every other MV. 2) Since this spec is mostly used in PVE raids for AOE fights with adds, do you change the rotation for more AOE when adds are up? Perhaps by replacing HiB with Explosive Dart (sorry for PT term) when one or more additional targets are in range? Even with the HiB auto crit and armor pen, ED should still do more damage than HiB and adding it is heat neutral I think. if I assume flame sweep is too heat intensive and rotation disruptive to use even with many adds up, right? Thanks! You have to remember that VG/PT get better ammo/heat management with AOE damage from actual raids (similar to Focus generation for Vig Guardians). You will perform better during an actual boss fight, so as long as you've got the optimal rotation down for this spec, you'll most likely be able to pull it off in a raid scenario, especially if you're doing fine with resource management for the first 500k damage. I can understand wanting to have a sustainable rotation on the dummy as well. You could break down the parse he posted in the guide and follow it in 15 second increments to see when he substitutes HS in for other abilities. Edited May 30, 2014 by drummerinthesun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 You have to remember that VG/PT get better ammo/heat management with AOE damage from actual raids (similar to Focus generation for Vig Guardians). You will perform better during an actual boss fight, so as long as you've got the optimal rotation down for this spec, you'll most likely be able to pull it off in a raid scenario, especially if you're doing fine with resource management for the first 500k damage. I can understand wanting to have a sustainable rotation on the dummy as well. You could break down the parse he posted in the guide and follow it in 15 second increments to see when he substitutes HS in for other abilities. Im actuallr replacing said parse soon-ish (It was a terrible parse where lag screwed with me). For now, Battkt's parse on the leaderboard would be what to look at, as it was his parse that got me using mortar volley in my tactics rotation, and its his rotation I put in the guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 TAC, I love your posts, man. One thing I think you could add to your gearing section in both guides is what to swap out for the optimal crit rating for both Tactics and Assault for players that want the best spec per fight. Sentinels switch out an earpiece and a enhancement for accuracy, for example, when switching between Combat and other specs. Or perhaps find a happy medium between the two? Say above 200 but below 300? Sure. What I normally do is carry a belt, bracer and earpiece with crit, as well as having both a power and a crit crystal unlocked in my collections. At the same time, I have a spare power belt + bracer For assault, I use all the crit gear, and put a crit crystal in the offhand (Black - green hawkeye in the mainhand I want to keep). For single target fights where I use tactics (e.g. Brontes, and not on Kite duty for dread council, as well as dummy parsing) I swap the belt/bracer for power instead of crit. And if its an AoE fight for tactics, I use double power crystals, the crit belt, the power bracer and the crit earpiece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 Anyway, I updated the parse to a much better one. This time the issues were APM, instead of lag - Could have had top tactics parse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battkg Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I'm loving the clean 4 block rotation that includes MV, but I have a few questions on implementation. 1) Per my calculations and experimentation, this doesn't seem to be heat neutral rotation. Even with the heat reduction cooldowns, I'm running into heat issues after about 500K damage from this rotation. Am I doing it wrong and this should be sustainable with good execution and proper use of cooldowns? If I am not screwing it up somehow, how do you/would you guys adjust the rotation? There aren't any extra IPs to replace with HS, so the only options I see that would help would be to replace MV or the occasional HiB (or unprocced SS?) with HS. I'm leaning towards skipping every other MV. Thanks! Rotation-wise, the rotation I specified uses between 393 and 425 energy every minute. (412.36 on average). Tactics builds are capable of regenerating 380 energy every minute naturally without taking area damage. If you do not use recharge cells or reserve powercell, you will run out of energy. If you use your energy cooldowns intelligently then you can get 413 (or 414 if you happen to be able to use reserve power cell on pulse cannon) energy per second. So that basically means that you can go under or over depending on how lucky you are with battering ram granting free stockstrikes. It doesn't really matter considering that you have to essentially never proc a free stockstrike 3 or 4 times for the negative energy loss to matter. Especially since on real fights you rarely are going to be sitting on a boss not named Nefra and not take area damage. (Why you would use tactics on Nefra is another matter) Coincidentally, if you proc a free stockstrike from ion pulse twice, then you can squeeze in an extra ion pulse. I have now revealed all the tricks I have learned for the tactics rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaredBartok Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 This was very helpful. Thanks! I was finally able to put it together and keep the heat in check for a full 1 mil dummy parse and was able to hit 3335 DPS, and that was still with a few errors here and there and only 39 APM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Great guide! I have been playin tactics since 2.0 and it is by far my favorite spec to play in PvP out of all my characters. I picked up a few things with applying DoTs to more targets and kiting better. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateSoGross Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 What is there for me to change: http://www.torparse.com/a/692278/time/1402055510/1402055814/0/Overview Parsec said 3300 but torparse said otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krev_Roo Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) What is there for me to change: http://www.torparse.com/a/692278/time/1402055510/1402055814/0/Overview Parsec said 3300 but torparse said otherwise. Nice job on your parse man. There are a few things I can see right off the bat from your opener alone. You did: G FP HiB PC PC MV MV SS IP IP You really should use: G PC PC MV MV FP SS HiB IP IP If you are parsing you should always start off with three stacks of your PC or Flamethrower for you, which I know you did. However, I noticed you didn't pre-load your Shoulder Cannon, you should pre-load you shoulder cannon before parsing as well cause in a real fight these two things are ideal to start with. G PC PC MV MV FP SS HiB IP IP is also better because this maximizes your burst in the beginning utilizing not only your Battle Focus or Explosive fuel and your adrenal but it also allows for your PC and MV/DfA rotation which contribute greatly to your dps to be used nearly on CD of MV/DfA. Which you can still do with the way you chose but having it up front starts you out much higher. As well with having Shoulder cannon already loaded up you can use one( or two) of those missiles on and in between G/RB and the start of PC/FT. Though you can save them for spamming right after MV/DfA if that's your preference of burst. This way you aren't wasting the 18s it would have taken you to wait for your SC to load to full use (or spamming it during loading), Instead it takes 7s to shoot off your SC, saving you 11s on its cool-down till your second one. It seems minuscule but it really helps. There are probably a few things that TaC will see. But in my opinion looking at the same ol' AMR you have on the Shadowlands Leaderboard, besides switching up your opening burst, it's really only gear that is holding you back, cause without factoring in the lucky crit high hit rates that sometimes happen when parsing (I mean just look at the crits Battkt was getting in that memorable parse), you're pretty much at the potential of your gear. Edited June 8, 2014 by Krev_Roo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Nice job on your parse man. There are a few things I can see right off the bat from your opener alone. You did: G FP HiB PC PC MV MV SS IP IP You really should use: G PC PC MV MV FP SS HiB IP IP If you are parsing you should always start off with three stacks of your PC or Flamethrower for you, which I know you did. However, I noticed you didn't pre-load your Shoulder Cannon, you should pre-load you shoulder cannon before parsing as well cause in a real fight these two things are ideal to start with. G PC PC MV MV FP SS HiB IP IP is also better because this maximizes your burst in the beginning utilizing not only your Battle Focus or Explosive fuel and your adrenal but it also allows for your PC and MV/DfA rotation which contribute greatly to your dps to be used nearly on CD of MV/DfA. Which you can still do with the way you chose but having it up front starts you out much higher. As well with having Shoulder cannon already loaded up you can use one( or two) of those missiles on and in between G/RB and the start of PC/FT. Though you can save them for spamming right after MV/DfA if that's your preference of burst. This way you aren't wasting the 18s it would have taken you to wait for your SC to load to full use (or spamming it during loading), Instead it takes 7s to shoot off your SC, saving you 11s on its cool-down till your second one. It seems minuscule but it really helps. There are probably a few things that TaC will see. But in my opinion looking at the same ol' AMR you have on the Shadowlands Leaderboard, besides switching up your opening burst, it's really only gear that is holding you back, cause without factoring in the lucky crit high hit rates that sometimes happen when parsing (I mean just look at the crits Battkt was getting in that memorable parse), you're pretty much at the potential of your gear. Nah, you pretty much got it all. It was the opener that held you back, everything else was pretty much perfect. That and if the AMR on the shadowlands leaderboard is right, the 31 offhand (should really upgrade that...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateSoGross Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I ended up with this: http://www.torparse.com/a/693877/time/1402281380/1402281679/0/Overview I do have a 180 offhand. I don't know how to really throw in MV with the parse without overheating. Also I don't get how to MV MV and the PC PC 2 times in a row with a 1 min and 15 sec cooldown. I'm probably stupid for not knowing what you are talking about but I'm not super good with abrieviations talk. Edited June 10, 2014 by NateSoGross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateSoGross Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Also I'm supposed to pop my battle focus adrenal before PC and MV or after?( and I usually do pre load sc, I probably want paying attention but I beat that parse so) Edited June 10, 2014 by NateSoGross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) I ended up with this: http://www.torparse.com/a/693877/time/1402281380/1402281679/0/Overview I do have a 180 offhand. I don't know how to really throw in MV with the parse without overheating. Also I don't get how to MV MV and the PC PC 2 times in a row with a 1 min and 15 sec cooldown. I'm probably stupid for not knowing what you are talking about but I'm not super good with abrieviations talk. Where it says MV MV or PC PC, thats just saying that cooldown is filled with that move. If Pulse Cannon was a 1.5 second channel instead of a 3 second one and mortar volley wasn't used, the rotation would probably look like: Gut PC FP SS IP HS IP HiB HS SS or something like that. So simply having the rotation say GUT PC PC MV MV means cooldown 1 is gut, cooldown 2 is start pulse cannon, cooldown 3 is continue pulse cannon (dont clip it), cooldown 4 is mortar volley, cooldown 5 is continue mortar volley, ect... The way to throw mortar volley in is simply by using your resource return cooldowns (recharge cells/reserve powercell) alongside mortar volley (well, delay recharge cells a little. And using reserve powercell with mortar volley can be difficult so you can use it on pulse cannon instead), as Tactics tends to be swimming in ammo at all times so it was a case of "What can I spend excess ammo on so recharge cells/reserve powercell actually got used?" As for battle focus and adrenal, in the opener I tend to use it just after gut, while during the rotation it can be used whenever as it lasts 15 seconds - the same length as a standard rotation - though the adrenal should still be delayed till battle focus + shoulder cannon are back. On the dummy you can also get higher numbers by delaying battle focus + shoulder cannon to always use it with a pulse cannon + mortar volley rotation, as we aren't killing dummies in less than 4 minutes just yet. Edited June 10, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateSoGross Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Should I use MV on cd or wait for thermal sensor override ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Should I use MV on cd or wait for thermal sensor override ? Mortar volley's 1 minute cooldown works perfectly with both resource return cooldowns - they both have a 2 minute cooldown, so one gets used with Reserve Powercell (Thermal Sensor Override) while the other gets used a few cooldowns before Recharge Cells (Vent Heat) - though wait till you're at about 30 ammo (70 heat) before popping recharge cells (vent heat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaredBartok Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I have a question on positioning for using flamethrower on the 3 adds under a bulwark shield in Draxus (i.e. waves 5, 6 and 8). I know it can be done (I checked the parses from the leaderboard), but I can't find the right spot to be within 4m of all three adds under the shield and hit them with flamethrower. DFA is no problem to hit all three, but one add always gets absorbed (>4m) or is outside the cone. Where should you stand to hit all three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 I have a question on positioning for using flamethrower on the 3 adds under a bulwark shield in Draxus (i.e. waves 5, 6 and 8). I know it can be done (I checked the parses from the leaderboard), but I can't find the right spot to be within 4m of all three adds under the shield and hit them with flamethrower. DFA is no problem to hit all three, but one add always gets absorbed (>4m) or is outside the cone. Where should you stand to hit all three? I found if you can hit all 3 with mortar volley, look directly and the bulwark and Pulse Cannon should hit all 3 if you are standing back a bit. Its something that requires a bit of practics, so just hop in on an SM DF that is going badly and practice there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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