A lot of people are crying about slug railgun crits. Prepatch, I would normally pick the extra 10% damage on some gunships and the extra 16% crit chance on others, mostly based on other selections such as copilot abilities, intended role, intended targets, etc.

Postpatch, I've been feeling compelled to switch ALL my slug railguns over to the crit, AND I've been hearing more and more cries about slug railgun crits.

I don't have any ability to go to a target dummy and check, but I will say that it FEELS like the slug railgun is critting more than 16% of the time. Can anyone check on this?

It could all just be in my head. Maybe postpatch I just remember crits super well or something.

I think it's selection bias. A target doesn't know when a railgun hits it whether the shot critted or not, or if bypass was used (esp with unreliable enemy buff markers). They absolutely do remember it killing them suddenly though and that fact surprising them, hence "NERF CRIT NAO".

I think crit was always pretty mandatory - with the rate of marginal shots you're forced into, I always wanted to make damn sure if it connected that it would be decisive. 10% over time might be a certain boost, but there are lots of cases where a target that absolutely has to be killed *now* won't die to an extra 10%, but will to an extra 50%, especially on partial charge.

In general I find the opposite- many times an enemy will have enough life for some amount of charge, OR their life is so high that nothing, crit or regular, would kill him.

Ex: Guy has 1200ish health. You charge up to around 1300ish, release. Crit! But worthless. With 10% more damage, you could have released sooner and got the kill.

Of course there's situations where the crit is far superior, but I prefer the greater responsiveness of an appropriate shot. The fact that it's higher dps doesn't hurt.

But you are totally correct, the crit thing could easily be selection bias. I just like... keep seeing it. I dunno!

it's in your head

easy test is spam low power shots on a turret

In general I find the opposite- many times an enemy will have enough life for some amount of charge, OR their life is so high that nothing, crit or regular, would kill him.

 

Ex: Guy has 1200ish health. You charge up to around 1300ish, release. Crit! But worthless. With 10% more damage, you could have released sooner and got the kill.

I should've been clearer. When I talk about marginal shots, I mean these sorts of situations: Someone is diving for cover or half the damn enemy team is charging at you trying to neutralize you and you've got a very limited time to line up and charge on a target - you release as late as you dare but it might only be a 30% charge. Either way it's nowhere near full charge. +10% of hit at that level of charge is not very much, but +50% may give you a red 800 that kills instead of a worthless 440 that just maims the target.

I agree if you get to sit there and plonk away at people with full charge slugs +10% all the time is superior, but I pretty much never get to do that when I play, unless I've got a full ops of great players on my team and they...don't.

I should've been clearer. When I talk about marginal shots, I mean these sorts of situations: Someone is diving for cover or half the damn enemy team is charging at you trying to neutralize you and you've got a very limited time to line up and charge on a target - you release as late as you dare but it might only be a 30% charge. Either way it's nowhere near full charge. +10% of hit at that level of charge is not very much, but +50% may give you a red 800 that kills instead of a worthless 440 that just maims the target.

This sort of analysis is utterly fruitless. You are bumbling around trying to articulate a prior over which kind of shot happens more often.

The fact is there is exactly one kind of shot that we know happens with regularity where crit matters: full charge slug shot against a battle scout. Everything else your prior should be pretty much neutral to slug vs crit. Ergo, you should (weakly) favor crit.

it's in your head

 

easy test is spam low power shots on a turret

This won't generate enough shots. To distinguish between 16% and like 25% would take a LOT of shots.

What I could do is, record every shot that hits or crits that I take. And then, after a LONG time, be within some level of certainty.

If the devs don't care to check, that's fine though. This isn't gamebreaking, it's not like it crits every time. It just seems like the rate went up with the patch.

You mean full charge slug against a battle scout that picked distortion field instead of directional, lightweight instead of reinforced, who is sitting in either F1 or F3 instead of F2 or F4, right?

That's what I said.

This won't generate enough shots. To distinguish between 16% and like 25% would take a LOT of shots.

It generates the most shots per unit time. Although actually an even better target would be an enemy capship that isn't a current spawn point (least likely to be interrupted, won't ever kill it).

This sort of analysis is utterly fruitless. You are bumbling around trying to articulate a prior over which kind of shot happens more often.

 

The fact is there is exactly one kind of shot that we know happens with regularity where crit matters: full charge slug shot against a battle scout. Everything else your prior should be pretty much neutral to slug vs crit. Ergo, you should (weakly) favor crit.

There is enough uncertainty in what a battlescout may be running that you can't see a full crit ever reliably one-shotting one. Assuming free rein to fire full charged shots, 10% wins because it's higher averaged dps. The question I was getting at was a more niche one - "what will kill a target more given a limited firing/charging window." You're right, it is really difficult to model. You'd likely have to simulate it, which no one has the time for.

tldr; YMMV, just my way of dealing with the games I typically see.

It generates the most shots per unit time. Although actually an even better target would be an enemy capship that isn't a current spawn point (least likely to be interrupted, won't ever kill it).

Now THAT is a good idea.

I don't follow the "favor crit because it can one shot a specific scout under special circumstances when you roll a certain number" being the only strategy. It's definitely a strategy, however.

I would argue that:

1)- You take MANY shots against opponents with less than 1760 life.

2)- Many of those shots can be released earlier with 10% damage, making weapon power and time more efficient. Time at roost is the gunship's main resource, after all.

But, I often lead with ion. Much less charge time for a solid effect, and my target often has to peel or die.

Again, I think that's a different strat.

Anyway, I'll see what I can do with the cap ship turret thing.

I'd like to know if only hit targets have a chance to crit or not. So if I miss a shot, I don't have to wonder if that was a crit shot that just missed.

I find when one shot crits, my 2nd shot will crit about 30-50% of the time.

Because it's chance, you could take 100 shots and get 0 crits. But lets say you take 100 shots and 16 of them were to crit.

Crits are an extra 800 damage, so 16 x 800 = 12,800.

vs

160 guaranteed extra damage per shot, so 100 x 160 = 16,000

That's an extra 3,200 per 100 shots. Overall, 1760 Slug will do better DPS than a 2400 crit Slug, but crit shots CAN take down an enemy faster, saving energy. It all depends on the HP of a ship.

I've killed ships with 1k HP, but because it crit, it was wasted and a 2.4k crit shot on bombers between 1761 & 2400 HP will save time & energy.

As I have 17 Gunships, 4 of which are mastered, I use both 1760 & 2400 slugs, both with pros/cons and do not feel any is superior to the other.

I've seen good gunships go both ways, so I dispute that.

Because it almost does not matter. Both have their advantages small on rare occasions. The talent itself is weak and not worth the 15000 Req. But anyway, I've already mastered the Munitions Capacity Extender with my Mangler.

I'd like to know if only hit targets have a chance to crit or not. So if I miss a shot, I don't have to wonder if that was a crit shot that just missed.

You are asking whether it is "one roll" or "two roll".

I am convinced it is "two roll" and that your miss could absolutely have been a crit.

First it rolls your miss chance.

If it's a hit, then it rolls your hit/crit chance.

Meaning if you have a 16% hit chance, 16% of your hits will turn into crits, not 16% of your shots.

But anyway, I've already mastered the Munitions Capacity Extender with my Mangler.

Can I ask why you did that?

You are asking whether it is "one roll" or "two roll".

 

I am convinced it is "two roll" and that your miss could absolutely have been a crit.

 

First it rolls your miss chance.

 

 

If it's a hit, then it rolls your hit/crit chance.

 

 

 

Meaning if you have a 16% hit chance, 16% of your hits will turn into crits, not 16% of your shots.

Yes. Ground game is a two roll system, and GSF very clearly tries to conform to ground game conventions wherever feasible.

Can I ask why you did that?

70,000 unnecessary Ship requisitions and boredom.

Can I ask why you did that?

Yea, when you buy that it means that you have every possible other upgrade. You need it to complete your ship, after all!

I've always gone with the 16% crit. One shotting scouts is super fun, and despite the low percentage, it's still worth taking imo. Regardless, I'm going to have to hit an enemy with at least 2 shots regularly. It's nice seeing those moments where 1 shot can take care of them, versus doing a lot initially and only requiring a little bit of charge for the next shot.

Ability to be on target I think is more important than the talent itself as the T5 component is "meh" but the crit is the way I roll.