I'm really used to team with pugs for instances since many months. With the group finder, it was even easier because I only play tank classes.

 

I never had trouble holding the aggro of a single boss or multiple mobs from lvl 20ish to 49 even with dpsers who tried to steal the aggro all the time.

 

But at lvl 50, it totally "changed". Equipped with crafted (purple mods 22, rakata bracers+belt, augments) and tionese gears, I started to join hard mode flashpoints. Usually, it goes well but sometimes I have so much trouble holding the aggro, especially with scattered mobs and even during boss fights!!! I tried to find solutions but I don't know what else to do. Even with my aggro stance, the high threat attacks and the taunts, some dpsers keep managing to grab the aggro.

 

My question is: is is just me who suddenly doesn't know how to hold aggro anymore or it's because I'm just undergeared (i.e. low dps, low health, etc.)?

 

These are my current unbuffed stats:

-Jedi Guardian lvl 50

Damage (Pri): 572-694

Bonus Damage: 294.4

Health: 18322

Armor Rating: 7054

Damage Reduction: 45.51%

Defense Chance: 19.70%

Shield Chance: 37.21%

Shield Absorption: 48.84%

 

P.S. I really need some help and advices because I don't want to stop using the group finder. There's already a big shortage of tanks. Also, I tanked in other mmos before and never had so much trouble.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Sammm

Being a tank sucks, playing a JK tank sucks even worse.

That being said i have come across a few JK tanks that can hold my threat with ease (well thye make it look easy).

 

1 target priority. Don't bother trying to hold anything under a strong,elit or champion. I can reliable 2 shot most weak mobs, why bother holding threat on them? The other mobs (the ones that actually count) will need to be held so focus on them. Use force push to clump adds together for sweep and cyclone slash.

 

2. get a better weapon. That will help heaps too, Do alittle pvp , get a BM or WH hilt and some of your threat issues should go away.

 

3.practise. Go out into the world , find some large packs of mobs and practise holding threat. Ask guildies to help if needed.

 

4.Guardian leap and guard. Guard whoever is giving you the most grief, if guard doesnt help Guardian leap them on CD.

 

Hope taht helps.

Since it occured when you hit 50 I would say its probably a gear issue. Its pretty tough to hold threat over a Rakata DPS going all out as a fresh 50. There are a couple of things you can do to make life easier though.

 

- Definately guard whoever is pulling threat off you.

- Ask DPS to give you a few seconds to build up some intial aggro. Most of them won't mind and many will even use their threat drops to help you out if you mention it.

- Use your AoE taunt AFTER your DPS blows all their AoE.

- Look at the hybrid 18/23 JG builds. Overhead Slash puts out more threat than Guardian Slash, focus is tougher though.

- Ignore the weaks and normals if you need to, focus on the strongs and elites.

- Make sure YOU are starting all the pulls. That initial aggro really helps and its next to impossible to get it back if a DPS starts (AoE taunt aside).

 

Tanking as a Guardian isn't that bad once you get your opener down pat. Assuming there are 2 main guys I need to tank I will go: Saber Throw on the weaker one -> Leap to the stronger one -> (Push them together) -> (Leap to first target) -> Sundering Strike -> Force Sweep -> Blade Storm -> Sundering Strike -> Overhead Slash -> Master Strike on other target and you should be set from there on out. If there are a few guys you need to hold aggro on I go: Saber Throw (2nd toughest target) -> Leap (Toughest target) -> Force Sweep -> Cyclone Slash -> Cyclone Slash -> Force Stasis (toughest) and then switch it up from there to build aggro on the ones I need to hold.

 

The bits in brackets I only do when they are far apart to get the closer. Spread out targets really hurt us. Have a look on tankingtor as well. They have some excellent JG tanking tips on there, especially the bit on mob positioning.

1 target priority. Don't bother trying to hold anything under a strong,elit or champion. I can reliable 2 shot most weak mobs, why bother holding threat on them? The other mobs (the ones that actually count) will need to be held so focus on them. Use force push to clump adds together for sweep and cyclone slash.

Yeah I do that too. Usually, I focus on the elites and rarely bothers about the weak mobs unless it's really important (e.g. some boss fights). The thing is some dpsers started to point fingers at me because of that. They started to tell me that I didn't aggro everything, that I don't know how to aggro, etc. I guess, I'll stop listening to them.

 

2. get a better weapon. That will help heaps too, Do alittle pvp , get a BM or WH hilt and some of your threat issues should go away.

That one really hurts. I use a vibrosword with Purple Mods+Augment 22. Right now, I'm working to get my hands on that Columi Weapon. Right now I do around 600ish damage compared to the average 1300 dam that some dpsers dish out. If I can only increase to 750-850ish damage, it will help tremendously for the aggro race.

 

3.practise. Go out into the world , find some large packs of mobs and practise holding threat. Ask guildies to help if needed.

Before level 50, I never really had trouble holding large packs of mobs even in intense instance fights. I guess, I'll have to find a better weapon like you said.

 

4.Guardian leap and guard. Guard whoever is giving you the most grief, if guard doesnt help Guardian leap them on CD.

Usually I guard the healer and rarely dpser1 or dpser2. I think I'll have no choice but to guard a dpser until I get a better average dps.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Sammm

Since it occured when you hit 50 I would say its probably a gear issue. Its pretty tough to hold threat over a Rakata DPS going all out as a fresh 50. There are a couple of things you can do to make life easier though.

 

Tanking as a Guardian isn't that bad once you get your opener down pat. Assuming there are 2 main guys I need to tank I will go: Saber Throw on the weaker one -> Leap to the stronger one -> (Push them together) -> (Leap to first target) -> Sundering Strike -> Force Sweep -> Blade Storm -> Sundering Strike -> Overhead Slash -> Master Strike on other target and you should be set from there on out. If there are a few guys you need to hold aggro on I go: Saber Throw (2nd toughest target) -> Leap (Toughest target) -> Force Sweep -> Cyclone Slash -> Cyclone Slash -> Force Stasis (toughest) and then switch it up from there to build aggro on the ones I need to hold.

 

-My ability rotation is pretty similar to yours.

-I think you're right about the gear issue. I often see the other dpsers having more health than me and way more average dps.

-The thing with the group finder is that I often meet impatient players who don't really care about planning, going easy on dps, waiting for me to attack/aggro 1st and other things like that. But I understand their attitude: they're lvl 50 since many months, they're fully geared, they completed those fps countless times and they're only there for their BH commendations.

-I think that I should join a guild asap even if I hate guild dramas. It's easier for the gear progression, much easier to play often with the same players, etc.

 

Anyway, ty both for the advices.

Since it occured when you hit 50 I would say its probably a gear issue. Its pretty tough to hold threat over a Rakata DPS going all out as a fresh 50. There are a couple of things you can do to make life easier though.

 

Tanking as a Guardian isn't that bad once you get your opener down pat. Assuming there are 2 main guys I need to tank I will go: Saber Throw on the weaker one -> Leap to the stronger one -> (Push them together) -> (Leap to first target) -> Sundering Strike -> Force Sweep -> Blade Storm -> Sundering Strike -> Overhead Slash -> Master Strike on other target and you should be set from there on out. If there are a few guys you need to hold aggro on I go: Saber Throw (2nd toughest target) -> Leap (Toughest target) -> Force Sweep -> Cyclone Slash -> Cyclone Slash -> Force Stasis (toughest) and then switch it up from there to build aggro on the ones I need to hold.

 

-My ability rotation is pretty similar to yours.

-I think you're right about the gear issue. I often see the other dpsers having more health than me and way more average dps.

-The thing with the group finder is that I often meet impatient players who don't really care about planning, going easy on dps, waiting for me to attack/aggro 1st and other things like that. But I understand their attitude: they're lvl 50 since many months, they're fully geared, they completed those fps countless times and they're only there for their BH commendations.

-I think that I should join a guild asap even if I hate guild dramas. It's easier for the gear progression, much easier to play often with the same players, etc.

 

Anyway, ty both for the advices.

 

Most 50s should be fine waiting a few seconds for you to aggro. As long as you are spacebarring convos and skipping mobs they'll be fine. If they have an issue just politely ask them to kick you and requeue. As a tank you will get a near instant queue pop with new people and if they kick (rather than leaving) you can requeue straight away.

 

If aggro is giving you more issues than mitigation, run with a strength stim instead of an endurance one. It'll make a real difference to your threat and even if you're using the biochem ones, you only lose about 1% defence rating @25%. Keep the Endurance one for tougher fights. I've got re-usable Str and End ones and I swap back to endurance about a minute into most fights. I also blow a power adrenal before I pull bosses so my DPS can really unload. Plus I hate self taunting, it feels cheap.

 

You might have to wait a little while for the Columi Mainhand, only drops from Karagga and Doc. Lorrick (LI HM) so its tougher to get. You could get a Sentinel offhand and steal the hilt from it though, thats a bit easier. Otherwise yeah, grab a guild and get into SM Ops (or HM if they're geared enough) as an offtank. You'll gear up pretty quick.

I just finished to read/watch most tank guides on the website your recommended. That website is really useful and professional.

 

Beside 3 things, I already did everything (i.e. using environment against knockbacks, burn 3-4 cyclone slashes against 4+ mobs, keep using force sweep, dps+aggro rotation between mobs, reducing overall damage with cc tactics (awe, hilt strike, force stasis, force push), push the ranges together, bring the melees to the ranges, interrupt the big damage abilities, moving bosses/mobs by using structures) he suggested.

 

1st. I didn't always keep my single+aoe aggros for emergencies. I'll have to be careful with that.

2nd. I thought that using saber ward or warding call early in the fights, I'd help the healer. But he's right, I should keep them when the healer and I are in real trouble.

3rd. I used mostly absorption augments instead of defense ones.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Sammm

could be gear. but the way taunts work i wouldn't think so.

 

my bet it is a combination of prioritizing targets and poor dpsers

 

i have played with some really terrible dpsers out there which are dying on content they shouldn't be on. just thank god we don't have real time dps meters

As long as you are using your taunts and not your detaunt(enraged defense or something for Jugg) If the DPS steals agro and die, it's their fault. As a DPS they should burn down weak mobs first. Then strongs, etc. A good DPS should burn those down fast unless it's just a bad pull. By the time the DPS get to the elites and harder, you should have good agro built up and they can just burn them down, DPS have a threat reducer and defensive cooldowns, the smart ones will use it. the dumb ones will die.

could be gear. but the way taunts work i wouldn't think so.

 

my bet it is a combination of prioritizing targets and poor dpsers

 

i have played with some really terrible dpsers out there which are dying on content they shouldn't be on. just thank god we don't have real time dps meters

 

On the trash pulls, taunt mechanics make very little difference. On a long single target fight they can be tens of thousands of threat per taunt. That said, that is why I recommended using the AoE taunt AFTER DPS had unloaded their AoEs.

 

For bosses/big guys. Use single target taunt on first aggro steal, AoE on second and single target again on third. I find the aggro steals to be the best time to use them because they give me the biggest boost. Just make sure you have target of target turned on and can see as soon as the mob swaps targets. If you taunt before they blow their big attacks you will lose the mob once the taunt wears off, do it after and you get their threat +30%.

 

In terms of it being the DPS's fault: not really. If a new 50 is tanking with Rakata or Campaign geared DPS they WILL lose aggro unless the DPS just auto attack. Fresh 50 JG tank in Soresu and full Defence spec puts out tiny damage. Somewhere around 500 DPS and 1100 TPS. Rakata DPS can push 1500 pretty easily. Campaign even higher.

 

You might like to download MOX or SWmoniTOR parsers and check out what your TPS is like. It will help you play around with rotations and see how you are going.

4.Guardian leap and guard. Guard whoever is giving you the most grief, if guard doesnt help Guardian leap them on CD.

Usually I guard the healer and rarely dpser1 or dpser2. I think I'll have no choice but to guard a dpser until I get a better average dps.

You always want to guard your best melee dps. Melee dps will always be in range of your guard, and a guarded dps is very unlikely to still steal aggro off you. They'll also probably take some more splash damage being in melee range, and 5% less damage on them is less healing the healer needs to worry about. Healers can take care of themselves threat wise, and will not steal aggro off you.

 

If healers are taking lots of damage that prompts you to guard them, there are two likely reasons:

 

1) Your dps are not doing their job. You grab the biggest threats in a group, dps pick up the weaks and normals and nuke them. If the healer is taking damage, the weaks and normals probably never got attacked, and thus heal aggro has moved to the top of the threat chart.

 

2) Your healer is overgeared and amusing himself by dpsing as hard as possible in between the occasional heals. If this is the case, just continue doing your job like normal. If they didn't think they could take care of themselves, they wouldn't do it.

Usually I guard the healer and rarely dpser1 or dpser2. I think I'll have no choice but to guard a dpser until I get a better average dps.

 

I find a lot of tanks do this, and as a healer main I can tell you it is pointless. Since Guard has a 15m range a healer will rarely be within range to gain any benefit from it. Healers also do not need the threat reduction as they really don't generate a lot of threat. As long as the tank has gotten 1-2 hits on a mob, it is very difficult to pull agro with just heals.

 

It is so much more effective to Guard melee dps. They will almost always be in range, can definitely use the threat reduction (especially if they out gear you), and the 5% damage reduction helps them survive a little better against boss aoes. And remember that the 50% damage transfer only applies to damage from players so has no effect in PvE.

I just completed a HM Esseles and it went very well. We only wiped once against that droid but it was my fault because I didn't know I had to stay inside its bubble.

 

This time, here're the things I modified:

-I stopped trying to grab the aggro from every mobs unless it was necessary (ex.: some boss fights, etc.).

-I guarded the range dpser. My thinking behind it is it takes less time to grab the aggro back from a melee dpser since he's much closer to me. But I also agree that guarding the melee dpser is effective too since he's rarely out of guard range and it helps for his mitigation. I might try it in the next runs instead.

-I delayed as much as I could the uses of mitigation buffs. That really helped during the boss fights.

 

But the thing that helped me the most was that the other teammates didn't have high tier gears (columi, rakata, whatever). It was really easy to keep the aggro in that situation.

 

I'll try to end up with high tier geared teammates and do some tests with them.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Sammm

Even Guarding ranged dps is kinda pointless as they will usually also be out of range and has no effect. The range also gives them more time for the mob to get to them giving you more time to taunt before they take any damage (if its a melee mob). Where as a melee is right next to the mob, so if they do pull threat, all the mob has to do is turn which it can do really quickly and then smack them. Edited July 13, 2012 by Icid

I just completed a HM Esseles and it went very well. We only wiped once against that droid but it was my fault because I didn't know I had to stay inside its bubble.

 

This time, here're the things I modified:

-I stopped trying to grab the aggro from every mobs unless it was necessary (ex.: some boss fights, etc.).

-I guarded the range dpser. My thinking behind it is it takes less time to grab the aggro back from a melee dpser since he's much closer to me. But I also agree that guarding the melee dpser is effective too since he's rarely out of guard range and it helps for his mitigation. I might try it in the next runs instead.

-I delayed as much as I could the uses of mitigation buffs. That really helped during the boss fights.

 

But the thing that helped me the most was that the other teammates didn't have high tier gears (columi, rakata, whatever). It was really easy to keep the aggro in that situation.

 

I'll try to end up with high tier geared teammates and do some tests with them.

 

I'm glad that tanking is working out for you again. Remember you can queue a full group in the LFG tool and still get the BH comms too, you just get a random FP. Running with higher geared players is a great way to practice your tanking, but its tough.... really tough at times.

 

As was mentioned earlier, melee is best to guard (especially sentinels) because they tend to put out more DPS than ranged DPS. Its also easier to see when a mob aggros on ranged DPS because they start running

as a vanguard tank i can hold aggro on all mobs in every hardmode flashpoint, the only real difficult one is false emperor because the mobs are spread out

 

some things that might help you

 

1. aoe attacks help lots, make sure you balance them out so you're not running out of energy

2. yes gear helps a ton with with holding aggro, while progressing with your end/sheild/def stats, try to get some strength or power augments put in

3. you should start your pull with the elite mob(s) first, but if dps if getting hit too hard or taking too long with weaker mobs, try to switch off between them

4. i know its probably really difficult for guardians, but if any vanguards are reading this. i usually fire off my big attacks on the weaker mobs, using my hammershot (primary attack) on elites. hard for guardians since you dont have much ranged

5. i turn every mob i fight so that their backs are toward the group. just cause i often dont check on party health and just pay attention to who they are facing, so i know what mob to taunt

as a vanguard tank i can hold aggro on all mobs in every hardmode flashpoint, the only real difficult one is false emperor because the mobs are spread out

 

some things that might help you

 

1. aoe attacks help lots, make sure you balance them out so you're not running out of energy

2. yes gear helps a ton with with holding aggro, while progressing with your end/sheild/def stats, try to get some strength or power augments put in

3. you should start your pull with the elite mob(s) first, but if dps if getting hit too hard or taking too long with weaker mobs, try to switch off between them

4. i know its probably really difficult for guardians, but if any vanguards are reading this. i usually fire off my big attacks on the weaker mobs, using my hammershot (primary attack) on elites. hard for guardians since you dont have much ranged

5. i turn every mob i fight so that their backs are toward the group. just cause i often dont check on party health and just pay attention to who they are facing, so i know what mob to taunt

 

I had to modify some minor tanking habits but now I can confirm that my main issue was the gear. Since I started to get some columi items, tanking became as easy as before lvl 50: my health + defense + shield + absorption + average dps increased. When I'll have a full columi set, tanking will become a joke. With a full bh set, it will be a walk in the park.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Sammm