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Arsenal Merc to Pyro Merc?


LeatherneckJedi

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I'm an Arsenal player but I play just as much PvP as PvE. Is there a huge difference in Pyro v Arsenal in terms of damage/survivability in PvP? I already understand the mobility issue. I'm more interested in numbers. Also, if I make the switch, do I need to change gear/stats? Also, what's a good rotation for Pyro? With Arsenal I don't even have PS on the quickbar. I see its huge for Pyro. Edited by LeatherneckJedi
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I'm an Arsenal player but I play just as much PvP as PvE. Is there a huge difference in Pyro v Arsenal in terms of damage/survivability in PvP? I already understand the mobility issue. I'm more interested in numbers. Also, if I make the switch, do I need to change gear/stats? Also, what's a good rotation for Pyro? With Arsenal I don't even have PS on the quickbar. I see its huge for Pyro.

 

It's an absolutely massive difference.

 

Damage is higher in practice because it's drastically harder to lock down. A much larger proportion comes from instant attacks instead of channels, and the only time an interrupt becomes a serious detriment is Power Shot to proc PPA when Unload is on CD (since Unload procs it at the beginning of the channel, if you get interrupted you can always just RS right away).

 

You are much more survivable because you are mobile, and there aren't hugely obvious animations to put a glowing neon target sign over your head (everyone knows how vulnerable Arsenal is to pressure, and backtracking TMs is a cakewalk to find the free kill).

 

As with Pyro PT, the "rotation" is really focused around timing burst and maximizing PPA procs. The nice thing is with Explosive Dart and Thermal Detonator on separate CDs and both with 30m range, you can do a major number on a single target by TD > Incendiary Missile > Rail Shot > ED > Unload > RS (if PPA proc, which it does more often than not). The TD should go off at the same time as the first RS, and the ED should go off as Unload finishes channeling, with the second RS immediately following. That much synchronized burst is much harder to handle than a smoother damage profile.

 

In an extended fight, you want to make as much use of TD and ED as possible, aim to proc PPA every 6s. Unload should NOT be used to CD, only when it's been at least 6s since the last PPA proc. When Unload is on CD, you're suck with Power Shot to proc PPA, and at your most vulnerable to lockdown.

 

The biggest downside to Pyro is that you're reliant on IM for reliably lighting a target on fire, and IM is a heat hog. PT Pyro can force-proc CGC from Flame Burst, and there's no reliable way for Merc to get GCG on a target. Unload has enough individual hits in it to have a high chance of proc'ing the cylinder, but you don't want to use that except to reset RS CD, so you're stuck with IM or getting lucky on another blaster attack to light a target for the initial RS.

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One thing to note... sustained DPS is far, far easier on Arsenal.

 

Pyro is fantastic for PVP because it's bursty and mobile. It's much less fantastic for PVE because of heat management and inconsistent damage (Pyro PT works better for PVE due to ability to keep GCS rolling permanently with Flame Burst, and instant-trigger PPA, instead of channeling a weak attack for the bulk of procs like Pyro is forced to in PVE).

 

One of the best things any subscriber can invest in is the 200k credit Legacy Field Respec unlock. I use it constantly, on all my characters, especially any that I use for both PVP and PVE.

 

There isn't a class in this game that runs the same ideal spec in PVP and PVE, so being able to retune on the fly is *huge*.

 

And, on any class that can fill 2 roles, it's not a bad thing at all to be able to emergency-swap if the situation demands it (though that's uncommon).

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One of the best things any subscriber can invest in is the 200k credit Legacy Field Respec unlock. I use it constantly, on all my characters, especially any that I use for both PVP and PVE.

 

There isn't a class in this game that runs the same ideal spec in PVP and PVE, so being able to retune on the fly is *huge*.

 

And, on any class that can fill 2 roles, it's not a bad thing at all to be able to emergency-swap if the situation demands it (though that's uncommon).

 

Add the ability to heal and it's all around a winner. I was thinking the same thing although I still have to get used to Pyro for PvP.

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i do alot more damage in arsenal, more burst and numbers if geared** into properly. only down side about arsenal in pvp, is that it can be SHUT down, not by death, but inturupts and charges can destroy roatations and lead to 4-8 seconds of not casting..
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i do alot more damage in arsenal, more burst and numbers if geared** into properly. only down side about arsenal in pvp, is that it can be SHUT down, not by death, but inturupts and charges can destroy roatations and lead to 4-8 seconds of not casting..

 

4 -8 seconds? your doing something wrong if thats the case. What rotation are you using?

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when im using tracer, a charge will inturupt it, if my unload proc is up and i use that with explo dart he can just inturupt it... thats 2 of some of our hardest hitting moves gone

we can get mezzed, choked and knockes back... which all stop our dps..arsenalercs are one of the easiest classes to stop from doing damage

Edited by iPvP
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when im using tracer, a charge will inturupt it, if my unload proc is up and i use that with explo dart he can just inturupt it... thats 2 of some of our hardest hitting moves gone

we can get mezzed, choked and knockes back... which all stop our dps..arsenalercs are one of the easiest classes to stop from doing damage

 

try opening with HSM and E-dart then get a cast off with TM if that gets interrupted go onto unload even with out the proc, if its a melee class and lets face it most people are these days, then use your rocket punch and root them, run behind them and cast a TM. by the time you have done that HSM and dart should be off cooldown.

I find this very effective in PVP, i open with TM's IF the target hasnt got me targeted. I hardly get shut down in WZ's because i dont rely on my TM casting, dont get me wrong i use it and a lot but only when i can free cast..

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I hilariously spec against this.

 

You'll generally find me in NiM EC in a pyro spec then I'll respec to arsenal for pvp.

 

Depending on the exact situation I might respec within a fight/match again.

 

But still, I really do like a 70% slow on unload. Oh and the rocket punch root. And the extra knockback. Pyro gets jack that actually works.

 

A 16% chance to proc a 30% slow for 2 seconds per hit you say? What a pathetic POS.

 

 

Also as to the above being unhappy with interrupts, where did you put your powershot, get it out and use it.

Edited by Gyronamics
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powershot? major dps drop for arsenal pvp

 

I dont have it on my keyboard, and here is why.. the cast time is just too looonnngggg.. and people will use the Power surge thing so its instant but thats a huge waste of power surge... Power surge is much better bofore a heal or the 8sec stun.

 

http://i.imgur.com/KwrWJKK.jpg i use 1 -4 main attacks, shift 1 -4 more instant attacks (no cast). And top right are my shields, heals, stun breaker, vent heat etc.

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Pyrotech is much more efficient at killing things, but will overall output less damage than Arsenal. the problem i find w/ Arsenal is that the full rotation often exceeds TTK.

 

its also got a couple of nifty things, like active cooldown reduction on Thermal Sensor Override, Kolto Overload and Energy Shield.

 

as far as one being more cast dependent than the other, Pyrotech is a real close second to Arsenal. you are still dependent on casting Power Shot and Unload for resetting Rail Shot. the main difference is that ability-for-ability, the pyrotech rotation has fewer consecutive casts, which helps significantly w/ mobility

Edited by cashogy_reborn
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powershot? major dps drop for arsenal pvp

 

Compared to a locked out Tracer?

 

Powershot procs Barrage, damages glowing assassins/shadows and does damage faster than tracer.

 

I dont have it on my keyboard, and here is why.. the cast time is just too looonnngggg

 

Powershot has the same cast time as tracer :confused:

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Compared to a locked out Tracer?

 

Powershot procs Barrage, damages glowing assassins/shadows and does damage faster than tracer.

 

 

 

Powershot has the same cast time as tracer :confused:

 

i thought PS was 2sec and TM 1.5

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Pyrotech is much more efficient at killing things, but will overall output less damage than Arsenal. the problem i find w/ Arsenal is that the full rotation often exceeds TTK.

 

its also got a couple of nifty things, like active cooldown reduction on Thermal Sensor Override, Kolto Overload and Energy Shield.

 

as far as one being more cast dependent than the other, Pyrotech is a real close second to Arsenal. you are still dependent on casting Power Shot and Unload for resetting Rail Shot. the main difference is that ability-for-ability, the pyrotech rotation has fewer consecutive casts, which helps significantly w/ mobility

 

The only cast that matters is Power Shot. If Unload gets interrupted it's unfortunate but not the end of the world as the PPA proc happens at the beginning and cannot be prevented.

 

In an extended engagement, you do wind up fairly reliant on casting Power Shot, but in quicker skirmishes (which are quite common if teams are objective-focused instead of deathmatch-focused) you rely predominantly on instants.

 

It gets a bit worse if you manage to proc PPA perfectly to the CD (as it delays the likely Unload PPA proc), but in the fairly common scenario that you proc PPA on Unload and then once more whilst it is on CD, you're only using a couple of Power Shots every 15 seconds, and the rest are instants or Rapid Shots for heat management.

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i still dont/wont use it. My only cast/channeling moves i use besides heals are Unload and TM. It just leaves you open to much to be interrupted and also you cant move around as much.

 

same with me... as arsenal I'm never using powershot...

Look guys , I don't undrestand why so many people think that arsenal spec is only about TM??? In PvE maybe but in PvP thats not true!!! U have to use only 2 channeled abilities... TM and Unload...

Classic PvP starter.... Explosive Dart+Unload , now depends... am I targeted ? No? So.. target.. TM , TM ,TM - HSM... ( maybe 2 TM and HSM and then UNLOAD if procs... for Better Heat management ) . You allways have to know that not Tracer... but UNLOAD is your hardest hitter... so for me I'm glad if dude interupts me TM and he get full unload + HSM from me. For using power surge it depends too... I'm using it mainly for starter .. Power Surge+ TSO + Fusion Missile.. or just saving it for an insta heal with rapid scan.. for same reason I'm not using railshot at all cost (I am using it but my priority is unload or HSM).. and saving tracer locks for instant heal with healing scan. It allways depends on situation.

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same with me... as arsenal I'm never using powershot...

Look guys , I don't undrestand why so many people think that arsenal spec is only about TM??? In PvE maybe but in PvP thats not true!!! U have to use only 2 channeled abilities... TM and Unload...

Classic PvP starter.... Explosive Dart+Unload , now depends... am I targeted ? No? So.. target.. TM , TM ,TM - HSM... ( maybe 2 TM and HSM and then UNLOAD if procs... for Better Heat management ) . You allways have to know that not Tracer... but UNLOAD is your hardest hitter... so for me I'm glad if dude interupts me TM and he get full unload + HSM from me. For using power surge it depends too... I'm using it mainly for starter .. Power Surge+ TSO + Fusion Missile.. or just saving it for an insta heal with rapid scan.. for same reason I'm not using railshot at all cost (I am using it but my priority is unload or HSM).. and saving tracer locks for instant heal with healing scan. It allways depends on situation.

 

this guy gets it. +1.. just an add also open with the HSM, if you get those 3 off (HSM, ED and unload) it puts your target on the back foot right away.. then you can control a fight with your CC's, shields and heals.

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this guy gets it. +1.. just an add also open with the HSM, if you get those 3 off (HSM, ED and unload) it puts your target on the back foot right away.. then you can control a fight with your CC's, shields and heals.

 

Assuming no one interrupts Unload, sure.

 

Conversely, Pyro can TD > IM > RS > Unload > ED > RS for even more burst, and if the Unload gets interrupted it will still proc PPA and the burst will roll on. If Arsenal's Unload gets interrupted, you're scrambling.

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Assuming no one interrupts Unload, sure.

 

Conversely, Pyro can TD > IM > RS > Unload > ED > RS for even more burst, and if the Unload gets interrupted it will still proc PPA and the burst will roll on. If Arsenal's Unload gets interrupted, you're scrambling.

 

Your PPA gets procced but Unload is on CD still for 15 seconds, Barrage Gives unload a 6 second CD and is by far the hardest hitter over TM... Lets not forget the utility that Arsenal brings in place over Pyro (don't get me wrong, I love pyro i have a vanguard, merely defending arsenal).

 

Power Barrier grants a 5% damage reduction, Sure, Trace Lock can add DPS, but its great for a instant Healing scan, quickly LoS, pop some heals. An Armour Debuff which supports an entire team, 70% snare on unload (this sucks when I play one of my melee classes), 4 second root on rocket punch, Longer knock back.

 

With the 2 piece eliminator you get 5 seconds off jet boost, making it 20 seconds, Stack this with the PvE 2 piece and you also get 15% crit chance on TM.

 

BTW, I think you mean your scrambling. Arsenal is a far more "difficult" spec in my mind. By that i mean it requires you to perceive whats going on and situationaly plan out your next move... Your last sentence makes you sound like you had a bad experience with Arsenal when you were a child...

Edited by Krayshawn
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