"All Cybertech grenades now bestow a new effect, the Bastion, on the target in addition to normal effects. Players who have this effect applied are immune to further Cybertech grenade attacks for the duration of Bastion (3 minutes)."

From the updated patch notes on PTS Today (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=671978).

Thoughts?

Seems like a good change to me, I expected their complete removal, this is a decent middle-ground and may satisfy those that love the grenades.

Think I'd prefer it if it was just the bonus effects, but I'm biased.

All but one of the grenades deal horrendously low damage, all the others focus on their CC effect, so if I could still use pyro grenade for a decent AoE would be nice.

Rofl, this is the most stupid nerf I have ever seen.

Good riddance bioware, another reason to quit the game.

I mean seriously for god sake the item is on a 3 minute cooldown, this is just going to overcomplicate things and most of all going to make class based AoE CC even more powerful than ever before.

This is just as, no, even more retarded than resetting your breaker on death. Might aswell remove grenades alltogether and it would be better for balance than this ****.

They need removed entirely from PvP.

That'd be better than this.

People are really complaining about this?

So much complaining about there being too many stuns, and the devs do something to reduce that, and people complain about it?

Its times like this i do actually feel sorry for the dev team.

No good player was complaining about too many stuns. And grenades were the least of the problem lol.

Either remove them entirely or keep them as they are. Not this crap.

I'm alright with this change, especially for arenas.

Nadespam gets annoying for everyone, and now it's less about throwing them at random and more about saving them for the right opportunity to save a life or get a kill.

I'm alright with this change.

 

Nadespam gets annoying for everyone, and now it's less about throwing them at random and more about saving them for the right opportunity to save a life or get a kill.

This.

I'm alright with this change, especially for arenas.

 

Nadespam gets annoying for everyone, and now it's less about throwing them at random and more about saving them for the right opportunity to save a life or get a kill.

You only get 1 per game. 5 seconds of cc, 3 minute cooldown. That is far too big of a drawback for such a tiny thing.

And as I said, it's going to make class aoe cc even more stupid than it already is. I mean really, classes get the ability to do this every 45! seconds.. and that doesn't have any repercussions..

How about adding the same effect to awe's? Because it's kind of exactly the same.

It is overcomplicating. If you hit 1 person with it before he will be immume. If someone else hit that 1 person before he is going to be immume. This is stupid ****.

You only get 1 per game. 5 seconds of cc, 3 minute cooldown. That is far too big of a drawback for such a tiny thing.

 

And as I said, it's going to make class aoe cc even more stupid than it already is. I mean really, classes get the ability to do this every 45! seconds.. and that doesn't have any repercussions..

 

How about adding the same effect to awe's? Because it's kind of exactly the same.

 

It is overcomplicating. If you hit 1 person with it before he will be immume. If someone else hit that 1 person before he is going to be immume. This is stupid ****.

So competitive teams will have 1 designated grenade guy. Which will be better than having people randomly use them/spam them. Making the game more tactical and less faceroll is a good thing

You only get 1 per game. 5 seconds of cc, 3 minute cooldown. That is far too big of a drawback for such a tiny thing.

 

And as I said, it's going to make class aoe cc even more stupid than it already is. I mean really, classes get the ability to do this every 45! seconds.. and that doesn't have any repercussions..

 

How about adding the same effect to awe's? Because it's kind of exactly the same.

 

It is overcomplicating. If you hit 1 person with it before he will be immume. If someone else hit that 1 person before he is going to be immume. This is stupid ****.

So wait, how does this change have anything to do with class AoE cc?

So competitive teams will have 1 designated grenade guy. Which will be better than having people randomly use them/spam them. Making the game more tactical and less faceroll is a good thing

For arena's the damage that this change does is bearable. Still bad, and better removed alltogether, but bearable.

For 8v8 however.. this is a *********** disaster change.

For arena's the damage that this change does is bearable. Still bad, and better removed alltogether, but bearable.

 

For 8v8 however.. this is a *********** disaster change.

A disaster for what, regs? You'd rather 16 players could AoE grenade every couple minutes?

Nevermind, don't answer that.

So wait, how does this change have anything to do with class AoE cc?

Ehm, duh.. Cybernades is something that everyone had. So they could go up against the aoe cc that is reserved for certain classes only.

The removal of grenades (which is pretty much what you can call it, since you will never be able to use it when you need it most) is going to make classes that have aoe cc by themselves MUCH more desirable.

How is that not basic logic?

They are putting a 3 minute long immunity DR on something that already has a 3 minute god damn cooldown. How does that make sense?

The 3 minute cooldown of grenades is what justifies their strength. This is just going to be a slap in the face.

Previously an Operative will have a flashbang AND a grenade, whereas a Sorc just has a grenade. Either way the Operative still has the same advantage..

I think you're overreacting, but keep on kicking and screaming.

+1 Bioware, pretty sure this is the right call.

I think you're overreacting, but keep on kicking and screaming.

 

+1 Bioware, pretty sure this is the right call.

Pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about -_-'

People are really complaining about this?

 

So much complaining about there being too many stuns, and the devs do something to reduce that, and people complain about it?

 

Its times like this i do actually feel sorry for the dev team.

The problem I have with this is the confusion it creates. They are trying to solve the problem of excessive CC by creating another problem where you have no idea if you can actually CC the person. Even though the resolve system has its quirks, it is very clear that when the target's resolve is fully white YOU CANNOT CC THEM. Whereas now, if they have no resolve but got hit by a grenade 2 minutes ago, you just wasted your 3 minute cooldown grenade.

This change needs to be visible outside of a small debuff among the sea of hundreds of buffs/debuffs on a target, especially when it effects Multiple targets. So now, before I use a grenade, I have to target every target I want to grenade, make sure they don't have the debuff, then grenade. Otherwise I am grenading with a hope and prayer.

The problem I have with this is the confusion it creates. They are trying to solve the problem of excessive CC by creating another problem where you have no idea if you can actually CC the person. Even though the resolve system has its quirks, it is very clear that when the target's resolve is fully white YOU CANNOT CC THEM. Whereas now, if they have no resolve but got hit by a grenade 2 minutes ago, you just wasted your 3 minute cooldown grenade.

 

This change needs to be visible outside of a small debuff among the sea of hundreds of buffs/debuffs on a target, especially when it effects Multiple targets. So now, before I use a grenade, I have to target every target I want to grenade, make sure they don't have the debuff, then grenade. Otherwise I am grenading with a hope and prayer.

The only person with some sense in this thread.

Yes, heaven forbid it will take some team coordination and/or actually looking at a target's debuffs.

Wouldn't want the game to be too difficult now!

The problem I have with this is the confusion it creates. They are trying to solve the problem of excessive CC by creating another problem where you have no idea if you can actually CC the person. Even though the resolve system has its quirks, it is very clear that when the target's resolve is fully white YOU CANNOT CC THEM. Whereas now, if they have no resolve but got hit by a grenade 2 minutes ago, you just wasted your 3 minute cooldown grenade.

 

This change needs to be visible outside of a small debuff among the sea of hundreds of buffs/debuffs on a target, especially when it effects Multiple targets. So now, before I use a grenade, I have to target every target I want to grenade, make sure they don't have the debuff, then grenade. Otherwise I am grenading with a hope and prayer.

I can see that, but with competitive 8v8 PvP gone, I can see how having 4 grenades to spam would negatively effect the flow of PvP.

With 4v4 teams, just have 1 guy designated the grenade thrower and there wont be the problem of accidentally wasting it.

So wait, how does this change have anything to do with class AoE cc?

The point is that Knight/Warrior and Smuggler/Agent stacking now gives a slightly bigger payoff; especially in an arena setting. They have zero diminishing returns or immunities to worry about apart from those which are class abilities or the resolve system.

Conversely teams which could rely on grenades to make up for some of their utility shortfalls are hit even harder by this nerf.

Some other downsides:

1. Idiots in normals or arenas who spam grenades for no reason will punish the rest of the team disproportionately.
   
2. A bad grenade with the best of intentions in any setting will punish the rest of the team disproportionately; either in normals or arenas.
   
3. Further highlights and compounds utility disparities between classes and specs; for example if I'm healing on my Commando I basically have no way to slow, root, or stun outside of my single target 4 second stun (which every class has, some with a shorter cooldown) or my cast-time single target 8 second mezz.