Jump to content

Kaggath Tournament Finals - Traya vs G0-T0


Beniboybling

Recommended Posts

Wow, there are a lot of incorrect speculations concerning Traya. I mean a lot. First of all I'd ask you to read my indepth on Kreia. And then I'd ask you to temporarily disregard all the nonsensical statements you have made on Traya until I have the time to educate you. In a nutshell, everything you have said about her is wrong, all of you. ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 617
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Wow, there are a lot of incorrect speculations concerning Traya. I mean a lot. First of all I'd ask you to read my indepth on Kreia. And then I'd ask you to temporarily disregard all the nonsensical statements you have made on Traya until I have the time to educate you. In a nutshell, everything you have said about her is wrong, all of you. ;)

 

I mean, if we want to complain about Traya acting out of character, Kaggath is not her style at all. She's not the sort to let her enemy know she's coming. She spent the greater part of her career as a Sith Lord making sure no one knew she was a Sith Lord.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, there are a lot of incorrect speculations concerning Traya. I mean a lot. First of all I'd ask you to read my indepth on Kreia. And then I'd ask you to temporarily disregard all the nonsensical statements you have made on Traya until I have the time to educate you. In a nutshell, everything you have said about her is wrong, all of you. ;)

 

If this thread is what you mean:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=561776&highlight=kreia

Then there was nothing in there that made me go "Oh my God I was so WRONG!"

 

EDIT: Oh, this one?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=606724

 

I'm just putting it out there that I didn't see Traya's motivations like that at all. She was trying to destroy the galaxy after she was betrayed by Sion and Nilius. She was cut off from the Force, and then realized that she hated it and wanted to end it. Through the Exile. While she was a Sith, although she sought allies in wounds of the Force, it makes no sense that Traya would attempt to end it. As the Lord of Betrayal, the Insidious Force must have been right up her alley.

 

I'm not sure how this pretains to the debate, seeing as if Traya did want to end the Force during her time as Sith, that only furthers the argument that she would not use the MSG, seeing as she did not at any other time.

Edited by Warren-Stride
Link to comment
Share on other sites

G0-T0 isn't omniscient, he can't "calculate everything at once". He is designed to make economic calculations based on known variables, he's not very good at extrapolating without information. And he has almost no information on Jedi/Force users, as he expressed to the Exile. The motivations and abilities of Force users are fairly mysterious to him. He wants to find Jedi, but only because his analyses indicate that Force users have significant impact on galactic stability. His forces are not trained or prepared to capture force users, just because he's posted a bounty for Jedi doesn't mean his bounty hunters will be better prepared to face them.

 

If anything, Force users have been made even more mysterious by their increasing scarcity in the galaxy. His droids are not specifically outfitted to fight against Sith, anymore than they're outfitted to fight anything else.

 

 

I don't think it's really relevant as to exact technical specifications of the Interdictor cruisers. The fact of the matter is, they're among the best warships in the time period, and G0-T0 doesn't have anything that can really make a dent in the Sith Warfleet.

 

There's also nothing to prevent Traya from using the Interdictors defensively. By setting up gravity well generators around Malachor V, she would force any scouts from G0-T0 to exit hyperspace far from the planet, making it easy to intercept and destroy them before they have a chance to land. This would blind G0-T0 to the movements of Traya's forces and also make it considerably harder for any assassins to land on the planet.

 

HK 50s were designed to hunt down and kill Jedi, which means they could hunt down and kill Sith as well.

 

G0-T0 may underestimate Traya, that's entirely possible, but it is far more likely that Traya would seriously underestimate G0-T0.

 

1. The typical Sith Arrogance, even she wasn't immune to it.

 

2. She despised droids, but she also didn't consider them to be any real danger to her.

 

Fact of the matter is that G0-T0 is more apt to re-evaluate Traya's capabilities based on new information, than Traya is to revise her opinion of G0-T0's abilities.

 

Another thing to consider is that Darth Traya was not a military tactician and actual military confrontations were generally not her style either. She favored stealth and manipulation, which is all well and good, except she is facing an opponent that also likes using stealth and manipulation. If this fight revolves around stealth and covert style attacks, then we're looking at two opponents that are practically evenly matched.

 

If we get into actual military style confrontations, then Darth Traya is going to be in serious trouble. G0-T0 may not have been a military tactician, but he's good at tactical games and that can translate into being an effective general on the battlefield. G0-T0 is capable of learning tactics fairly rapidly (all he has to do is raid the databanks of a military archive), I suspect that there will be some military confrontations eventually.

 

The key thing to remember is that Traya isn't an effective leader, she even admitted as much to the Exile. G0-T0 proved himself as being an effective leader by running the Exchange, what's more he demonstrated he is an effective manager. While Darth Traya may have the military advantage early in this fight, I don't see her keeping that advantage for very long. The Exchange was probably on par with Prince Xizor's Black Sun as a criminal organization. So it wouldn't be surprising if G0-T0 would manage to acquire combat capable vessels, even capital ships eventually. What give G0-T0 an even greater advantage is the fact I don't recall Traya having any military tacticians for underlings (Sion was like an angry club, and Nihilus was just like a walking WMD). A good military commander can offset having a disadvantage in military hardware, especially when you are up against someone that is not very good at leading forces on a battlefield.

 

Personally I see G0-T0 pulling a disappearing act early on, and gathering resources to build his own ships that are capable of taking on Traya's ships. I could also see G0-T0 potentially setting up secondary HK factories, if he had to. Traya doesn't exactly have the resources of the Sith Empire, so it is plausible G0-T0 could assemble enough ships to take on Traya's forces in a reasonable amount of time.

 

I don't remember Traya's assassins to be skilled in slicing, demolitions, and picking locks either which seriously curtails stealth abilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this thread is what you mean:

I'm just putting it out there that I didn't see Traya's motivations like that at all. She was trying to destroy the galaxy after she was betrayed by Sion and Nilius. She was cut off from the Force, and then realized that she hated it and wanted to end it. Through the Exile. While she was a Sith, although she sought allies in wounds of the Force, it makes no sense that Traya would attempt to end it. As the Lord of Betrayal, the Insidious Force must have been right up her alley.

 

I'm not sure how this pretains to the debate, seeing as if Traya did want to end the Force during her time as Sith, that only furthers the argument that she would not use the MSG, seeing as she did not at any other time.

Of course its partly subjective, but there are several flaws with that line of thinking.

 

 

  • Firstly Traya learned to hate the Force from the teachings of Malachor V, not due to her betrayal (so she would in fact want to use the MSG generator):
     
    ...On the surface, Kreia found Darth Revan's former stronghold, the Trayus Academy, an ancient dark side praxeum that contained the deepest and most intimate secrets of the Sith...The Sith sorcerers claimed that they had privileged insight into secret realities, arguing that even though the contradictory and aimless nature of existence appeared obvious to all intelligent beings, awareness of the Force exposed this obvious "fact" as a lie, further stating that the Force betrayed Force-sensitives, making them live in a compromised, chaotic universe—to live the lie. As much as she wanted to denounce them and their arguments, she fell under their seductive spell, and became Darth Traya, the Lord of Betrayal. ~ Wookieepedia, sourced from Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide.
     
     
  • If Traya wanted to destroy the galaxy, then doing nothing would be a surefire way of achieving that. She remarks on multiple occasions that if Sion and Nihilus are allowed to live they would destroy the galaxy and consume all life, and this is true.

 

And to correct the various fallacies that I have encountered:

 

 

  • She did not use the Exile to destroy the Force (clearly through the fact that the Force still exists) - this stuff about creating Force bonds across the galaxy? That is somewhat baseless and likely untrue. Also if this is the case, then why is Traya so satisfied when the Exile defeats her? And why does she say nothing of this grand plan? We only have the word of Atris, and even she speaks nothing of exploiting bonds.
     
     
  • Traya was not suicidal, again may I point out the Traya's death had no effect on the Force so that makes no sense whatsoever. Traya wanted the Exile to kill her so she could complete her training and sever the Force bond - like she says. Traya randomly killing herself is going to do diddly squat.
     
     
  • Traya doesn't adore the Force /sigh:
     
    "Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost."
     
    "I use it as I would use a poison, and in the hopes of understanding it, I will learn the way to kill it."
     
    Yes she uses it, but I have no doubt she'd be willing to give it up - even if it cost her her sight.

 

I realise that there are certain elements that are open for debate but to avoid getting sidetracked I'm going to call my version K-Canon (:p). But if you do want to have this debate then hope on over to my thread, here.

 

P.S. Don't believe everything you read on Wookieepedia, especially concerning Traya. If its not backed up by a source then its speculation, and if the source is KOTOR II then find the direct quote because its all open to interpretation. Before you make a statement about Traya, find some solid evidence to back it up - that is all.

Edited by Beniboybling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[*]She did not use the Exile to destroy the Force (clearly through the fact that the Force still exists) - this stuff about creating Force bonds across the galaxy? That is somewhat baseless and likely untrue. Also if this is the case, then why is Traya so satisfied when the Exile defeats her? And why does she say nothing of this grand plan? We only have the word of Atris, and even she speaks nothing of exploiting bonds.

 

If you actually believe that Traya's plan was simply a one way do or die ticket to achieving her goal: life without the force. Then you aren't doing her much justice. The Exile was one way of MANY ends to her means, that she would use to fulfil this.

 

Traya even says as much to the exile in the game, that unless you go to her, she will kill herself and by her death, your own 'and then the galaxy will begin to die.' When Traya had actually managed to train a student that was greater than every other she had trained beforehand, and not just that, but someone who had come from a life without the force, she was reconciled with herself and even, partially, the force itself(KotOR CG).

 

PS: Please refrain from such a derogatory way of arguing a point, you don't look more respectful or knowledgeable, you just lose said respect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One point I'd like to make, turning down a job to invade Malachor V is not cowardly. Taking up the job is tantamount to suicide, I'm not saying that the underworld is cowardly, I'm saying they're not insane. Let's remember this is the planet that later becomes synonymous with hell. By accepting this job you are taking the risk of:

 

 

  • Experiencing a violent crash landing which you may or may not survive.
  • Being devoured by two meter tall storm beasts.
  • Dying a slow and painful death via noxious gases.
  • Falling into a bottomless pit.
  • Being fried by electricity or Sith Lightning.
  • Having dark energies drive you complete insane/turn you into a zombie.
  • Getting stabbed in the back by an invisible assassin.
  • Getting sliced up by a lightsaber.
  • Being abandoned on this hell hole.
  • Getting blow apart as the MSG rips the planet into scattered asteroids.
  • Having nightmares for the rest of your life.

 

That is if you even get to the planet before Traya has you assassinated for allying yourself with the Exchange, which I am sure she will attempt to do.

 

Like I said, you'd have to be insane to take this job, and no matter how many credits you offer few if any will take up the job. What's G0-T0's pitch going to be: you want 1 million credits? Well, all you have to do is go here, get here, and not get killed by these guys, these guys or these guys along the way. Oh and then you have to kill her. Easy job, easy money, no risk - so you in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you actually believe that Traya's plan was simply a one way do or die ticket to achieving her goal: life without the force. Then you aren't doing her much justice. The Exile was one way of MANY ends to her means, that she would use to fulfil this.

 

Traya even says as much to the exile in the game, that unless you go to her, she will kill herself and by her death, your own 'and then the galaxy will begin to die.' When Traya had actually managed to train a student that was greater than every other she had trained beforehand, and not just that, but someone who had come from a life without the force, she was reconciled with herself and even, partially, the force itself(KotOR CG).

 

PS: Please refrain from such a derogatory way of arguing a point, you don't look more respectful or knowledgeable, you just lose said respect.

I completely agree with you, and I'm not disputing that at all. What I'm disputing is that somehow that by killing herself and/or the Exile would somehow kill the Force. It just makes no sense. And its Atris that says that, not Kreia. But anyway, this isn't the place for this debate.

 

P.S. I didn't realise I was been offensive, apologies if I was.

Edited by Beniboybling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I may, how do we know the Gand and Ubese are able to survive Malachor? Even powerful Jedi could barely withstand the Dark Side energies of that place, how are Gand and Ubese suppose to?

 

And even if they do, how do you suggest they make their way to Traya past everything Beni listed above?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I completely agree with you, and I'm not disputing that at all. What I'm disputing is that somehow that by killing herself and/or the Exile would somehow kill the Force. It just makes no sense. And its Atris that says that, not Kreia. But anyway, this isn't the place for this debate.

 

P.S. I didn't realise I was been offensive, apologies if I was.

 

I PM'd you about what I was posting. Also, no worries, but you came off very distastefully in an earlier post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I may, how do we know the Gand and Ubese are able to survive Malachor? Even powerful Jedi could barely withstand the Dark Side energies of that place, how are Gand and Ubese suppose to?

 

And even if they do, how do you suggest they make their way to Traya past everything Beni listed above?

That's really at the crux of Traya's most feasible plan to defeat G0-T0. She doesn't have to eliminate everyone in G0-T0's powerbase, just those that can invade Malachor, AKA the HK assassins. Then scare everyone else into not taking up the job. Expanding on terror tactics:

 

Terrorize Nar Shaddaa, granted G0-T0 has a big presence on the planet and eyes almost everywhere. But Sith assassins are masters of stealth and subterfuge and have stealth generators. So detecting and tracking them down and then killing them is no easy feat. Meanwhile the assassins can strike at Exchange bases, Jekk'jekk Tarr,

and anyone else who allies himself with G0-T0. Basically make it clear that the Exchange are enemies of the Sith, dissuading others from aiding them.

 

Something else I forgot to mention:

Which means that both situations would have to fall in Traya's favor for there to be any actual impact to this argument. And as we have debated, the likely hood of her winning one, most certainly both, is slim.

And we have established that with small ship, G0-T0 could easily land on Malachor.
Both of the above are highly debatable, so lets not just put them to one side just yet. Lets also remember that the Visionary isn't that big.

 

Random, unrelated question: Why is G0-T0's yacht called the Visionary?

 

P.S. Don't get worried if I seem to be debating all for one side, I'm probably going to hand the decision making over to someone else. :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One point I'd like to make, turning down a job to invade Malachor V is not cowardly. Taking up the job is tantamount to suicide...

 

 

  • Experiencing a violent crash landing which you may or may not survive.
  • Being devoured by two meter tall storm beasts.
  • Dying a slow and painful death via noxious gases.
  • Falling into a bottomless pit.
  • Being fried by electricity or Sith Lightning.
  • Having dark energies drive you complete insane/turn you into a zombie.
  • Getting stabbed in the back by an invisible assassin.
  • Getting sliced up by a lightsaber.
  • Being abandoned on this hell hole.
  • Getting blow apart as the MSG rips the planet into scattered asteroids.
  • Having nightmares for the rest of your life.

 

That is if you even get to the planet before Traya has you assassinated for allying yourself with the Exchange, which I am sure she will attempt to do.

 

The answer seems painfully simple.

 

Mandalorians.

 

They're common on Nar Shaddaa during both the combatants time periods. They work as mercenaries and bounty hunters.

 

This is especially effective seeing as we can compare the Mandos to the assassins. While outnumbered and taken off guard, the Mandos were able to defeat a large amount of Traya's assassins. They also have stealth tech akin to the assassins, and beskar armor resistant to lightsabers, for sure the pikes most assassins use. They've already proven their worth in battle against Sith and the like as well.

 

So the motivation? Well, credits yeah. But these are Mandos. And not the noble Canderous kind. They despise Revan, and when G0-T0 tells them that Traya is his master, they'll be more than happy to seek revenge. Don't buy that? Malachor was th sight of the Mandalorian's greatest defeat. They'd probably want to wipe away that mark of failure.... Maybe by activating the MSG?

 

So lets see.

Can use basalisk droids to land

Have faced beasts more deadly than Storm beasts

Have masks

Won't fall into a pit

Won't be fried by Sith (Beskar)

Can't be stabbed in the back (Beskar)

Can't be sliced by lightsabers (Beskar)

Have reinforcements from their clans / their droid ships

Have honor, so if they think axtivatinv the MSG is honorable, they'll do it, even if they die

Mandos don't have nightmares. Their enemies do.

 

 

Mandos are a prominate underworld group that G0-T0 could easily hire to take on Malachor, seeing as they have the tech, the armor, the skills, the motivation, and the courage to do it.

Edited by Warren-Stride
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Should note, not all Mandos wear Beskar armor due to the fact its rare most just stuck with duraplast and durasteel. In the end though, while lightsabers won't work as effectively(they will still work it'll just take more effort) the Sith still have The Force which

 

The Force > Armor.

 

As for the gas, they aren't gonna be able to breath forever with their helmets. Their reserve air tanks only supply enough for 2 hours, though if they can keep away from the gas they'll be fine, they just can't have any prolonged exposure. Though question...what beasts have Mandos taken on, that come close to a Storm Beast that has been twisted and powered by the Darkside, with which they can send out deadly/destructive sonic waves and have enhanced strength.

 

There is also a chance, the Mandos can go insane.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The answer seems painfully simple.

 

Mandalorians.

 

They're common on Nar Shaddaa during both the combatants time periods. They work as mercenaries and bounty hunters.

 

This is especially effective seeing as we can compare the Mandos to the assassins. While outnumbered and taken off guard, the Mandos were able to defeat a large amount of Traya's assassins. They also have stealth tech akin to the assassins, and beskar armor resistant to lightsabers, for sure the pikes most assassins use. They've already proven their worth in battle against Sith and the like as well.

 

So the motivation? Well, credits yeah. But these are Mandos. And not the noble Canderous kind. They despise Revan, and when G0-T0 tells them that Traya is his master, they'll be more than happy to seek revenge. Don't buy that? Malachor was th sight of the Mandalorian's greatest defeat. They'd probably want to wipe away that mark of failure.... Maybe by activating the MSG?

 

So lets see.

Can use basalisk droids to land

Have faced beasts more deadly than Storm beasts

Have masks

Won't fall into a pit

Won't be fried by Sith (Beskar)

Can't be stabbed in the back (Beskar)

Can't be sliced by lightsabers (Beskar)

Have reinforcements from their clans / their droid ships

Have honor, so if they think axtivatinv the MSG is honorable, they'll do it, even if they die

Mandos don't have nightmares. Their enemies do.

 

 

Mandos are a prominate underworld group that G0-T0 could easily hire to take on Malachor, seeing as they have the tech, the armor, the skills, the motivation, and the courage to do it.

 

Except that Malachor V is culturally taboo to Mandalorians, so few of them would be willing to go there for any amount of credits, especially after what happened at the end of the war.

 

Also, few of them have beskar armor. Most Mandalorians get carved up fairly easily by the Exile, etc. because they're just wearing normal armor.

 

And Mandalorians aren't that prominent anymore, their numbers are continually diminishing after the Jedi Civil War. Canderous was in charge of one of the largest gatherings of Mandalorians anywhere, since he was trying to gather the clans. Otherwise, you saw them in groups of two or three, scattered and disparate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mandos are a prominent underworld group that G0-T0 could easily hire to take on Malachor, seeing as they have the tech, the armor, the skills, the motivation, and the courage to do it.

This is just it I'm afraid: No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers.

 

The Mandalorian clans are unfortunately, a 'prominent power', yes they were scattered and broken but they still operated in groups (clans) with their own resources, supplies etc. 'Exchange mercenaries' I will allow but per Kaggath rules G0-T0 can't simply enlist the help of anyone he chooses as this is a violation of conduct.

 

The problem with underworld characters is that they can buy whatever and whomever they want, which leads to people bringing up various groups, organisations and individuals who despite having no affiliation with said characters powerbase, can be bought and feasibly incorporated. In any other format with would be acceptable, but in the Kaggath format combatants are only able to use that which is apart of their powerbase, with unaffiliated vendors being allowed as compromise. Some sort of cap has to be placed on these sort of combatants.

 

For that reason G0-T0 is only allowed the Gand nest t, the Ubese assassins , the Red Eclipse, the Zhug brothers and miscellaneous exchange mercenaries. I hope you understand my reasoning behind this.

Edited by Beniboybling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For that reason G0-T0 is only allowed the Gand nest already in his employment, the Ubese assassins in his employment, the Red Eclipse and miscellaneous exchange mercenaries. That excludes Mandalorian clans, other Gand other Ubese and any other groups minor or major not associated with the Exchange. I hope you understand my reasoning behind this.

 

I like how this comes up in the finals when it's been fine everywhere else.

 

Basically you are saying that underworld character's credits are now useless. Seems fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like how this comes up in the finals when it's been fine everywhere else.

 

Basically you are saying that underworld character's credits are now useless. Seems fair.

Where has it been 'fine' anywhere else? There has never been any other reason to bring this up in other debates, although rule that no other prominent powers, allies or assets outside ones powerbase are not allowed has always been a rule... but if you don't respect the rules then *shrug*, there's nothing I can do about that.

 

And no I am not saying that, not at all. If I did make that the case then I'd ban G0-T0 from using the black market, and I would have banned Xizor from buying up fleets, but I did not and have not done this. I've merely banned G0-T0 from using the assets of another group. In fact I've been especially lenient concerning underworld characters, and several people have complained that its not fair because these combatants can just throw money at their opponents to win and buy whatever the hell they want.

 

P.S. If you really think I'm manipulating this whole Kaggath so that Traya can win then you severely overestimate my interest it this tournament. You do realise I'm not been paid to do this? And that I don't want to make enemies of everyone on these forums? That I'm not a troll?

 

EDIT: But perhaps I was being overly restictive, I suppose it is within the rules of the Kaggath that G0-T0 could hire new Gand nests and new Ubese assassins, however no other groups he's had no prior affiliations with.

Edited by Beniboybling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fact I've been especially lenient concerning underworld characters, and several people have complained that its not fair because these combatants can just throw money at their opponents to win and buy whatever the hell they want.

 

I feel like a lot of this post is heated and passive-aggressive, so I'm only going to address what is not.

 

The fact is, that's what underworld characters do. They're not military powers. For the most part, their economical powers. They hire people, they're not factions with loyal-to-the-death soldiers. Large organizations hire other smaller groups to do their dirty work. For credits. Saying that underworld figures are unfair because they can buy what they want is like saying that its unfair for combatants like Revan or Grievous to build ships or droids. It's how they replenish their armies. And the rules do state the arena is the known galaxy. So saying that certain species don't exist is rather silly. There should be an argument about how/why these other people's would help underworld characters. Saying that they are not allowed to hire new people seems to be the easy way out of battling underworld types.

 

But, as you say, it's the rules. Who am I to argue against them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But, as you say, it's the rules. Who am I to argue against them?

Your free to dispute the rules, I encourage that. And I'd rather you'd have done that in the first place, constructively.

 

EDIT: I don't want this too put a downer on the debate, so lets just move on.

Edited by Beniboybling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your free to dispute the rules, I encourage that. And I'd rather you'd have done that in the first place, constructively.

 

EDIT: I don't want this too put a downer on the debate, so lets just move on.

 

I do want to point out G0-T0 could simply hire a bunch of people that like credits and don't care don't particularly have self-preservation being high on their priority list.

 

There are plenty of individuals in the underworld that aren't playing with a full deck.

 

Heck he could even hire people that like making things go boom, and convince them to go trigger the MSG on Malachor V, cause it'd make a really big boom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do want to point out G0-T0 could simply hire a bunch of people that like credits and don't care don't particularly have self-preservation being high on their priority list.

 

There are plenty of individuals in the underworld that aren't playing with a full deck.

 

Heck he could even hire people that like making things go boom, and convince them to go trigger the MSG on Malachor V, cause it'd make a really big boom.

 

Except problems with that, is actually staying and surviving the surface of Malachor from going insane to gas to facing against Storm Beasts twisted and powered by the Darkside.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except problems with that, is actually staying and surviving the surface of Malachor from going insane to gas to facing against Storm Beasts twisted and powered by the Darkside.

 

How can someone go insane if they are already insane?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How can someone go insane if they are already insane?

 

So you'd think G0-T0 would hire insane people? I don't think that would be a very wise move...though I dunno if regular insanity, would keep them safe from the power the darkside gives off on the planet, it could just drive them more insane, I mean even Hanharr was like that. But if by some miracle they do survive, how would they take down a Storm Beast?

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

(A somewhat lengthy summary of the stage of the debate so far.)

 

Well seeing as the Gand and the Ubese assassins are still in this, I think we have to consider their capabilities of invading Malachor. Lets say Traya trashes Jekk'Jekk Tarr. All the Gand won't be present, now some might be scared off the hunt, but that is unlikely considering these guys are not only hardened bounty hunters but also have a Trandoshan-like culture of honor through achievements, invading Malachor V and living is certainly an achievement. What the Gand have going for them:

 

 

  • They wore breathing gear that would protect them from any poisonous gases on the planets surface, also several Gand were lungless and therefore immune to poison altogether. (In fact suprisingly most Gand were lungless, but wore breather masks to maintain anonymity - this would render Traya's gas attack entirely useless!)
     
     
  • There insectoid bodies possess a strong, chitinous exoskeleton which acts as a natural armour making them able to shrug off injuries that would cripple most other species e.g. a bash from a storm beast. It also protects them from nerve or pressure point strikes to neck and shoulders, techniques Sith assassins are likely to use.
     
     
  • There eyes possess ultraviolet capablities, giving them excellent night vision which would be useful in a dark and shadowy world like Malachor V.
     
     
  • They are skilled in martial arts, and have especially strong hands, allowing them to punch through armour, bone and chitin, a useful skill against close combat opponents.
     

 

So in fact Gand are actually quite formidable, and well equipped for invading Malachor V in every respect.

 

The attack on Jekk'Jekk Tarr will thin the numbers of Ubese assassins/wipe them out entirely if the attack is pulled off successfully. However its plausible that G0-T0 would have a means of replacing these assassins once members were killed, a 'standing order' if you like. What the Ubese having going for them:

 

 

  • Like the Gand, these guys also utilise breath masks and will be equally immune to Malachor's poisonous gas vents and in fact often wore a sort of tight-fitting full bodied enviro-suit.
     
     
  • These guys are assassins, and therefore likely possess a sort of fearless nature - so they won't be detterred from the prospect of invading Malachor. They also presumably possess stealth capabilities and 'assassination protocols' which will work well in an infiltration and sabotage mission such as this.
     
     
  • Each assassin is trained to wield a vibroblade, with enough skill to go toe-to-toe with powerful Jedi. So presumably they could take on Sith and likely easily defeat Sith assassins unless outnumbered.

 

However we can't forget the Red Eclipse who are also affiliated with the Exchange, however we have to remember that these guys are slavers, and while many are Trandoshan and therefore desire challenges, it is debatable whether they could be persuaded to invade the planet. These guys are made up of Trandoshans and Weequay, so lets see what the Trandoshans have going for them:

 

 

  • Have infrared eye-sight which not only allows them to see in the dark, again useful on a planet such as Malachor.
     
     
  • They have razor sharp claws which makes them suited to unarmed combat and specifically close combat with assassins and possibly Sith - coupled with their heavy and strong builds makes for a dangerous adversary.

 

But while we're at it, we may as well take a look at what the HK-50 assassin droids have going for them, based on our knowledge of HK-47's abilites and the fact that these are a supposedly upgraded model we can assume they possess most of the following abilities:

 

 

  • As well as blaster weapons, they also possess the more unorthodox forms of weaponry, which may prove more effective against Sith. This includes, flamethrowers and carbonite projectors.
     
     
  • As Jedi hunters, they possess a great many skills designed to tackle force users, which would obivoulsly be effective in such a conflict. This includes, grenades, sonic screamers, cluster rockets, plasma charges, poison gas and mines - weapons unable to be deflected by a lightsaber and focused at breaking a force users concentration.
     
     
  • They are droids, and therefore undetectable through the Force and immune to poisons and any other detrimental effects of Malachor V - including fear, they are not going to run away from a fight.

 

I don't think its worth evaluating the likes of Weequay and Duros (Zhug brothers) as these guys are nothing special and likely only good for bantha fodder on Malachor V - if they can even be convinced to join which is unlikely.

 

So how does G0-T0 invade Malachor? Well Basilisk droids would be ideal but after the Mandalorian Wars these were scarce and those that did exist, existed within the spheres of Mandalorian Clans to whom G0-T0 has no affiliation with. Another option is pods, pods were often used to stealthily deploy troops to the surface of planets disguised as meteors. A similar tactic could be used here (disguised as falling debris.) Another possible option is equipping extremely study vessels e.g gunships, heavy freighters, with cloaking devices.

 

If he manages to land some ships on the planet successfully he has to scout out the MSG and the Trayus Academy, the former could likely be achieved through some sort of gravity or energy sensor. And the latter won't be so difficult, probe droids are one option, but Atton managed to land pretty close so I'd assume it was visible from afar.

 

So, with this knowledge the force can split up and pursue a two-pronged attack. Several units are sent to the Trayus Academy while the remainder are sent to the MSG to reactivate it. The latter should and must be droids as no sane being is going to reactivate the MSG knowing what the result will be. The others will have the false directive of invading the Academy, but this is simply a distraction.

 

If the droids manage to get the MSG back online they can reactiavte it and destroy the planet, taking the Academy, the Sith, the assassins and Traya with it. However there are several problems with this plan:

 

 

  • The various hazards Malachor V possesses
     
     
  • The fact that Traya may have expected such an attack and either fled the planet or caved in/sabotaged the MSG.
     
     
  • Traya, at the heart of the Trayus Core may very well have a vision of the destruction of Malachor, but as many have pointed out, visions of one's death are rare. However she could have a vision of the impending invasion or simply sense their presence through the Force - and therefore respond accordingly.

 

Bearing the above in mind, we have to consider the following factors:

 

 

  • How much damage Traya will do to G0-T0s powerbase while he plans another attack.
     
     
  • How successful a second invasion of Malachor V would be, likely minus HK droids and Trandoshans among others.

 

How G0-T0 would locate and destroy Traya if she fled to Korriban < this IMO is the most important factor we need to consider, as it is the most likely outcome if G0-T0's plan fails.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...