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So, about skipping Kotfe-Kotet..

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
So, about skipping Kotfe-Kotet..

IanArgent's Avatar


IanArgent
09.18.2018 , 01:42 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiesu View Post
First of all

And second of all, theres this thing called Customer Support if you manage to bone yourself regardless.
Weird crap happens all the time in swtor that can bug your character one way or another, how do you think anyone has survived this far if nothing would ever be fixable "because it's mmo"
A) Customer service costs them a LOT of money for each call

And b) they couldn't do a darn thing about my character with two copies of the ship droid.

Game flag databases, in particular this one, are NOT simple; and we've had more than ample evidence that this one in particular has some nasty unpredictable behavior in it.

Could it be done? I didn't say no. I said it can't be economically done.

Quote: Originally Posted by Batwer View Post
People the game already has problems with small updates. There are always bugs. Now think about what happens if you can set the flags arbitrarily. I'm really scared that my notes will be deleted because of the crap.
To be obnoxious - this^^
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Kiesu's Avatar


Kiesu
09.18.2018 , 01:56 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by IanArgent View Post
A) Customer service costs them a LOT of money for each call

And b) they couldn't do a darn thing about my character with two copies of the ship droid.

Game flag databases, in particular this one, are NOT simple; and we've had more than ample evidence that this one in particular has some nasty unpredictable behavior in it.

Could it be done? I didn't say no. I said it can't be economically done.
You seem to have very little knowledge on how Customer Service or game engines work based on the few posts you have made recently. Excuse me if I don't trust your expertise.
If I as a coder hobbyist can make a list like this and have it work in Unity alongside the game, I'm pretty sure they can do that with professionals with far greater knowledge than me lol.

Or maybe we should stop making any kind of game-updates so we don't get any bugs! That solves all bug problems!
Refer! - Pawn alignment funzies - [Add impressive e-peen brag here]
What made Origin stories superior to KotFE/ET? All 8 story characters could co-exist.
Level and world designer, comic artist, general RP nerd and occasional snark novelist.
Legions of Lettow → Tomb of Freedon Nadd → Red Eclipse → Darth Malgus.

IanArgent's Avatar


IanArgent
09.19.2018 , 01:21 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiesu View Post
You seem to have very little knowledge on how Customer Service or game engines work based on the few posts you have made recently. Excuse me if I don't trust your expertise.
If I as a coder hobbyist can make a list like this and have it work in Unity alongside the game, I'm pretty sure they can do that with professionals with far greater knowledge than me lol.

Or maybe we should stop making any kind of game-updates so we don't get any bugs! That solves all bug problems!
They pay me approximately $10 a year or so (I forget the exact amount since I did the math) because I use a 2FA token on my account.

I'm in technical customer service, and I'm not cheap to pay (well, I wasn't when I was answering calls and I became more expensive when I was the guy that fixes the tickets the front-line reps put in; I'm even more expensive when my job is "don't make the customer make the call in the first place" as a systems engineer). Reducing the number of people who call in to those front-line techs before they call in is my #1 job today. (Not that it matters, but I worked on an MMO a long time ago. It failed to launch, and I was doing "zone development" not engine programming, so it's not very relevant to the SWTOR experience.)

Coding a hobby game in Unity when you are the only one working on it and nobody else ever has is indeed a trivial exercise. It's also not what the topic at hand is.

It can be done. It's also nastily harder than it looks (especially if you're comparing it to a Unity hobby project), and will benefit a fraction of the player base at the potential cost of breaking everyone's experience.

Better for them to direct their resources to new projects.

(I've been very wrong about studio priorities before, though. Look through my posting history and I swore up and down they'd never put in difficulty sliders for story content - then they did for Chapters. I could weasel out and say "but they didn't for Vanilla Content, this was developed alongside the major changes in 4.x" but they still did it when I didn't think they would. So I too am mortal.)
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Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
that doesn't mean I want anyone else punished or shunned...we ALL matter.
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Kiesu's Avatar


Kiesu
09.19.2018 , 01:56 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by IanArgent View Post
They pay me approximately $10 a year or so (I forget the exact amount since I did the math) because I use a 2FA token on my account.

I'm in technical customer service, and I'm not cheap to pay (well, I wasn't when I was answering calls and I became more expensive when I was the guy that fixes the tickets the front-line reps put in; I'm even more expensive when my job is "don't make the customer make the call in the first place" as a systems engineer). Reducing the number of people who call in to those front-line techs before they call in is my #1 job today. (Not that it matters, but I worked on an MMO a long time ago. It failed to launch, and I was doing "zone development" not engine programming, so it's not very relevant to the SWTOR experience.)

Coding a hobby game in Unity when you are the only one working on it and nobody else ever has is indeed a trivial exercise. It's also not what the topic at hand is.

It can be done. It's also nastily harder than it looks (especially if you're comparing it to a Unity hobby project), and will benefit a fraction of the player base at the potential cost of breaking everyone's experience.
Heh, you know, when you have a long game and you need to playtest it you have a cheat sheet or type in series of flags by hand to playtest features later in game so you don't need to play the whole thing with specific met criterias to try check if the functionality works proper over and over, so they propably have a bunch in place already... If swtor team dont use these for whatever reason they're making playtesting harder on themselves than it should be for no reason. If you've ever done any modding doing this is common place there too. If you ever looked at the modding tools for DA it doesn't take long to see how the flag system is set up an write up or edit a gamestate for yourself, and DA certainly is bigger and has more flags than my "little unity hobbies" :P
But you should know that since you have worked on games before

Nobody is arguing stuff should work so you shouldn't need customer support, lol. That's kinda obvious.
I dont know what kind of customer support you work in but in my country they get a pretty normal pay comparable to other desk jobs. You don't even need to call CM in this game, you'll leave a note and they'll get to it when they get to it. There is a phone number if you're really desperate though, I've heard like one person actually use the call service before.
Quote: Originally Posted by IanArgent View Post
Better for them to direct their resources to new projects.
Aaand there we have it. "Actually I just don't want them spending resources on this thing", should have said that in the first place and leave the "I'm an expert" speech aside.
Refer! - Pawn alignment funzies - [Add impressive e-peen brag here]
What made Origin stories superior to KotFE/ET? All 8 story characters could co-exist.
Level and world designer, comic artist, general RP nerd and occasional snark novelist.
Legions of Lettow → Tomb of Freedon Nadd → Red Eclipse → Darth Malgus.

IanArgent's Avatar


IanArgent
09.20.2018 , 05:35 AM | #115
Back end tools on a test server for the use of playtesting are not going to be suitable for exposing to the customer base; at least some of whom will be looking to use them maliciously.

I'd be a lot less negative on the whole idea if we didn't already know the flags database is complex and prone to bugs; or if any kind of customer-facing tool for this was built in from the beginning (as it apparently was for ME2).
You want Things? Do some Work. Find me on Star Forge
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
that doesn't mean I want anyone else punished or shunned...we ALL matter.
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Kiesu's Avatar


Kiesu
09.20.2018 , 05:59 AM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by IanArgent View Post
Back end tools on a test server for the use of playtesting are not going to be suitable for exposing to the customer base; at least some of whom will be looking to use them maliciously.

I'd be a lot less negative on the whole idea if we didn't already know the flags database is complex and prone to bugs; or if any kind of customer-facing tool for this was built in from the beginning (as it apparently was for ME2).
Yeah well nobody is suggesting ripping dev tools as is and have users make their own game-states from scratch with an external modding tool. That's gonna end in catastrophe. Duh.

If you're doing a gamesave edit by yourself with external tools you can enable all kinds of flags and have everything conflict and make weird stuff happen as much as you want. Nobody thinks putting that in swtor is a good idea. Nobody.

Like I said several posts ago it would need to have proper checks made by devs to make sure conflicting flags cant be chosen. Hence plain checkmark sheet would be the simplest.
Refer! - Pawn alignment funzies - [Add impressive e-peen brag here]
What made Origin stories superior to KotFE/ET? All 8 story characters could co-exist.
Level and world designer, comic artist, general RP nerd and occasional snark novelist.
Legions of Lettow → Tomb of Freedon Nadd → Red Eclipse → Darth Malgus.

IanArgent's Avatar


IanArgent
09.20.2018 , 05:07 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Kiesu View Post
Yeah well nobody is suggesting ripping dev tools as is and have users make their own game-states from scratch with an external modding tool. That's gonna end in catastrophe. Duh.

If you're doing a gamesave edit by yourself with external tools you can enable all kinds of flags and have everything conflict and make weird stuff happen as much as you want. Nobody thinks putting that in swtor is a good idea. Nobody.

Like I said several posts ago it would need to have proper checks made by devs to make sure conflicting flags cant be chosen. Hence plain checkmark sheet would be the simplest.
It still has to make the changes on the back end - a horrible mess of interlocking dependencies. If this was a clean-sheet design, no problem. Approaching a decade of overlapping design decisions and layers of cruft that was never designed in from the beginning, and is provably fragile?

Not worth the effort.
You want Things? Do some Work. Find me on Star Forge
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
that doesn't mean I want anyone else punished or shunned...we ALL matter.
Referral link - click it, or don't

Kiesu's Avatar


Kiesu
09.21.2018 , 04:31 AM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by IanArgent View Post
It still has to make the changes on the back end - a horrible mess of interlocking dependencies. If this was a clean-sheet design, no problem. Approaching a decade of overlapping design decisions and layers of cruft that was never designed in from the beginning, and is provably fragile?

Not worth the effort.
"they still need to make changes on back end", who said it would require no work!? You just don't want them to work on this one feature. Otherwise all and any future changes requiring system tweaking "wouldn't be worth the effort". Gosh.
Not worth the effort for you maybe if you don't do anything with it. Like strongholds are not worth the effort for me because I'm not interested. But not for anyone? gimme a break.
Refer! - Pawn alignment funzies - [Add impressive e-peen brag here]
What made Origin stories superior to KotFE/ET? All 8 story characters could co-exist.
Level and world designer, comic artist, general RP nerd and occasional snark novelist.
Legions of Lettow → Tomb of Freedon Nadd → Red Eclipse → Darth Malgus.

DarthCasus's Avatar


DarthCasus
07.09.2019 , 05:32 AM | #119
**Cough**

With the fall expansion coming, just putting this back out there again.
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TheCardinal's Avatar


TheCardinal
07.09.2019 , 05:40 AM | #120
Nice Necro
Cardinal / Sweden
Icarus Corporation

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