Go see how much "fun" you will actually have when you are in a raid full of 7 or 15 others who also play the game for "fun", don't use any add ons, clueless about min-maxing and boss mechanics, and don't bother to improve, all in the name of "having fun because it's a game".

You will wish that you had some of the add on nerds here to compensate for the lack of performance from your "have fun only" buddies because, trust me, you will not have "fun" wiping repeatedly for dumb reasons to a boss that should be easily defeated.

Go see how much "fun" you will actually have when you are in a raid full of 7 or 15 others who also play the game for "fun", don't use any add ons, clueless about min-maxing and boss mechanics, and don't bother to improve, all in the name of "having fun because it's a game".

 

You will wish that you had some of the add on nerds here to compensate for the lack of performance from your "have fun only" buddies because, trust me, you will not have "fun" wiping repeatedly for dumb reasons to a boss that should be easily defeated.

Wouldn't another solution be to play with players you know?

Wouldn't another solution be to play with players you know?

And for those of us who play this game outside of our circle of friends?

And for those who only have a couple friends IRL they play with?

And for those who enjoy starting PUGs to meet new people?

Seriously, this list can go on.

Wouldn't another solution be to play with players you know?

You know, it'd suck when that player you know sucks just like the worst noob on the server and you can't prove it, so either you are going to just call him out on it and he thinks you don't like him, or you ignore it essentially proving the previous poster right...

This "add-on" debate will rage on till the end of time but I don't think BW will let 3rd party companies make add-ons for their game.

I have played many mmo's since the release of FF11 (personally my favorite mmo of all time) some have been good and some have been very bad, SW:TOR sits on the good side for me. But this doesn't mean that some things can't be fixed/added.

1. Allow UI customization, ie. re-sizable and movable elements

2. Allow a combat log and parsing

This is all anyone NEEDS, you could set your screen up how you like it and you could go over combat logs to your hearts content improving your game or helping others. Add-on's are unneeded and once you open that door you can't shut it, also I wouldn't mind having mouse over but can do without macros, they tend to make people lazy and I fear people will start making them to spam the chat channels.

Sure its going to be frustrating at first

but then you learn about how the bosses and raids go

then you build up a plan

then you succeed

You know, its called "Learning"

I would like to say that there are damage meters in the game.

Just join any warzone and watch the scoreboard.

And how exactly will you know which player fails at what during a boss fight when you need to be watching your own game?

Open your eyes and try. It's hard to learn enough fight awareness that you can watch your own game AND others. I struggle with it but I know players that are good at it and they are the ones making groups successful.

Addons, damage meters and combat logs don't make better players. They make dumber players. If you need them, then YOU need to learn to play not those of us who get by without them

Addons, damage meters and combat logs don't make better players. They make dumber players. If you need them, then YOU need to learn to play not those of us who get by without them

Getting by is one thing, improving is another. But I guess you don't like improving and somehow think those who do, make themselves dumber in the process.

And for those of us who play this game outside of our circle of friends?

And for those who only have a couple friends IRL they play with?

And for those who enjoy starting PUGs to meet new people?

 

Seriously, this list can go on.

I'm sure you'll add friends from flashpoints you've done in the past.

Bring them w/ you.

Combat log is a must, any one who has raided semi seriously knows that. Leaving this out of the game will only infuriate experienced raiders and cause them to unsub.

3rd party add one are not necesary or needed. However they are fun.

Customizable ui is a must. I had endless hours of fun in wow tailoring my ui to personal preferences. They will add this... Eventually

Any seriously, no chat bubbles? I know this is small, but it drives me and many other players nuts.

please excuse spelling and gramer...

Addons and combat macros lead to ppl de skilling instead of learning combat skill and mechanic of a fight.

For example instead of paying attention to boss mechanic, warnigs and environment ppl rely on a meassage popping up to tell them what to do. it's lazy and unskillfull and makes a relatively hard encounter meaningless.

As for combat meters, that is a certain down fall of any game leading to 1 skill / macro bashing for max dps and expected specs per class or no entry to group/ raid.

if any thing at all maybe Bioware should at end raid or flashpiont put scores for healing / dps as in pvp warzone end results . then ppl who like to improve have more competative edge can do so via this. And maybe none comabt macros if u feel you need to spam raid warnings in ops chat as ops leader.

but having each skill spec broken down, (combat log) and ongoing dps meter leads to more meter watching in game than paying attention to what your doing, or what group/ raid is doing. and more so the start of max dps spec ect not what player chooses to play.

I dont dis courage self improvment, but I strongly feel combat logs and addons do not help improve any one, 1 person works out a spec and all follow, removing the need to learn or addapt.

And more importantly remove the use of the range of skills i have been given to the class i play, and then game play and fun dies, not to mention the game is then not played as bioware intended.

Macros will be added to the game. Just not available at launch.

Why would you not want combat macros? Makes no sense.

You don't need combat logs to improve. You just need to time how long you take to take down a mob. If you do it faster, then you've improved.

It's pretty easy to see improvements in rotations without logs.

Go see how much "fun" you will actually have when you are in a raid full of 7 or 15 others who also play the game for "fun", don't use any add ons, clueless about min-maxing and boss mechanics, and don't bother to improve, all in the name of "having fun because it's a game".

 

You will wish that you had some of the add on nerds here to compensate for the lack of performance from your "have fun only" buddies because, trust me, you will not have "fun" wiping repeatedly for dumb reasons to a boss that should be easily defeated.

If you require third party software to get through a game that has been designed with a specific interface in mind, either you suck or the developers have done a shoddy job.

I would like to say that there are damage meters in the game.

Just join any warzone and watch the scoreboard.

That scoreboard is just a measure of who is using the most AOE abilities. It is not, normally, a good representation of DPS.

You don't need combat logs to improve. You just need to time how long you take to take down a mob. If you do it faster, then you've improved.

 

It's pretty easy to see improvements in rotations without logs.

How do u propose we weed out the ppl that arn't improving?

Oh and here's an idea, how Bout a target dummy that spawns a dps meter only viewable by the person usin the dummy. That way a person could practice their rotation and seewhat works and what does 't.

How do u propose we weed out the ppl that arn't improving?

 

Oh and here's an idea, how Bout a target dummy that spawns a dps meter only viewable by the person usin the dummy. That way a person could practice their rotation and seewhat works and what does 't.

This is a good idea. I'd take it one step forward and implement a "combat simulator" of sorts, where you can not only practice rotations group synergy etc. either alone or with others, but also you could be equipped with the gear set of your choice for yuor time in the simulator to see the improvement from what you have to what you will have should you acquire it.

You don't need combat logs to improve. You just need to time how long you take to take down a mob. If you do it faster, then you've improved.

 

It's pretty easy to see improvements in rotations without logs.

DPS on a short living mob and DPS on a long sustained boss fight are 2 very different things. The only useful thing you're going to learn is how much burst DPS you have, but it still won't give you a clue to tell you how efficient your actual rotation is.

This "add-on" debate will rage on till the end of time but I don't think BW will let 3rd party companies make add-ons for their game.

I have played many mmo's since the release of FF11 (personally my favorite mmo of all time) some have been good and some have been very bad, SW:TOR sits on the good side for me. But this doesn't mean that some things can't be fixed/added.

 

1. Allow UI customization, ie. re-sizable and movable elements

2. Allow a combat log and parsing

 

This is all anyone NEEDS, you could set your screen up how you like it and you could go over combat logs to your hearts content improving your game or helping others. Add-on's are unneeded and once you open that door you can't shut it, also I wouldn't mind having mouse over but can do without macros, they tend to make people lazy and I fear people will start making them to spam the chat channels.

Agree 100%. I don't care about addons, I care about making my UI look the way I want it to, and being able to figure out how me and my buds screwed up so we can fix it. Allow addon's or build it in, I don't care.

Fixed, unchangeable UIs work in single player games because you play through them, then stop. They don't work in MMO's because a lot of us play way too much, and will spend way too many hours for the next several years staring at our screens.

Also though, dead horse is dead. They said they want to do this, they just couldn't get it done before EA made them ship the game to get in for Christmas. The real question is, how hard will it be for them to implement considering the client isn't really built to do it. If they didn't allow for any provisions for such things, (IE the UI element locations aren't dynamic in the underlying code), then don't expect UI customization until the first expansion.

I don't raid, so its not a problem for me.

This. I don't raid as much, nor does the majority of the playerbase, so it's a non-issue for me.

Also, there are WAY WAY WAY more important things to address first.

How do u propose we weed out the ppl that arn't improving?

 

Oh and here's an idea, how Bout a target dummy that spawns a dps meter only viewable by the person usin the dummy. That way a person could practice their rotation and seewhat works and what does 't.

See right there it is how do we weed out people theses kind of things will lead to "Nope your not good enough go away" and only the same people will have any chance to do anything Next theyllbe wanting gear score for raids ...lol