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[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
[Class Rep] Three Questions Regarding Our Wonderful Class

Melon_Lord's Avatar


Melon_Lord
02.26.2014 , 06:02 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Mathemagica View Post
Many people apparently want to ask the combat team to increase our sustained damage in PvE. I don't think that asking for specific buffs like more damage through HEC or RB is the way to ask for this. We can make such suggestions of course, but the core of such a question should be that we need more sustained damage in PvE, not one or two specific suggestions how to achieve that.
Good point, let the combat team work around how to achieve our PVE DPS increase without it affecting PVP, it is their job after all. We need merely state we're under-performing, back it up with numbers, and provide them with stuff we don't want to see. Hopefully that way, we won't be surprised when stuff we don't like pops up, because it won't pop up because we told them we better not see it. For exampe, if I see Pyro Mercs getting buffed because of buffs meant for us, I will ...probably not quit playing but damn it I'll be mad
The Bastion - Baroness Stryvah

ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
02.26.2014 , 08:23 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Melon_Lord View Post
Good point, let the combat team work around how to achieve our PVE DPS increase without it affecting PVP, it is their job after all. We need merely state we're under-performing, back it up with numbers, and provide them with stuff we don't want to see. Hopefully that way, we won't be surprised when stuff we don't like pops up, because it won't pop up because we told them we better not see it. For exampe, if I see Pyro Mercs getting buffed because of buffs meant for us, I will ...probably not quit playing but damn it I'll be mad
This is actually a really good point and after thinking about it, probably our best course. We need to stress that we are GREAT in PVP but we need PVE increases that won't change anything about us in PVP. I am saying all this from a DPS standpoint.
Kendiaro - Powertech
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Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
02.26.2014 , 09:54 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Luckeyduckey View Post
Are you trolling? Seriously, unless those healers are amazing (the players), then I don't see how it's hard... They have force management issues, so even if you can't beat them right away, you WILL win.

As for the questions, seriously we need more damage. PvP is fine, but we NEED better damage in PvE. It's a joke right now, second worst class. Best way to do it is to buff hybrid specs, as no one uses those in PvP due to lack of survivability and burst.
The 1v1 healer is going too far. Everyone has there opinion, but this is not the goal of this thread, and defiantly is not what the game is balanced around. Also, I do not want BW to buff hybrids. This always have unintended consequences that result in a nerf afterwards, and is impossible for devs to balance every spec and all possible hybrids, so making full specs optimal is always better.

TheSupaCoopa's Avatar


TheSupaCoopa
02.26.2014 , 01:33 PM | #74
Duran'del here:

I'm going to add something. While we are in a good place in PVP, PvE is another matter.

DPS(PvE):
We could use a leap, especially since our "Gap closed" consists of either using grapple or berserker-charging them and spamming basic attack. Jet Charge would now be baseline, alon with Grapple, but be trained at level 45 instead.

Free rail shot would be an awesome buff, and bleed damage from RB should be buffed, plus overall damage from IM.

Prototype Cylinders for HEGC needs to be increased to 2%. Also, HEGC should have another effect that would make it a unique stance:

Increases tech and ranged accuracy by 3%. When your attacks critically hit, your tech bonus damage is increased by 1%, and the Cool down of Immolate and Rail shot is decreased by 1 second. Stacks up to 5 times and lasts 15 seconds.

Tank(PvP and PvE):
Power techs are not viable for NiM. We lack the arsenal of DCDs that Juggernauts have and the sheer mitigation of Assassins. An idea for a new CD that would take the place of Jet Charge(This ability would now be baseline) is Shield Overload. This ability would last 15s, and give the following effects:

-Shield Chance Increased to 100%. Automatic criticals would deal normal damage.
-Internal damage decreased by 25%.
-Armor increased by 50% for 5s after Shield Overcharge ends. All armor-decreasing debuffs would be removed and none could be applied for the remaining time.

I cannot speak for PvP except that we deal pitiful damage.our hardest hitting ability hits like a wet noodle. The damage dealt decrease in IGC should be changed to 2%. The Prototype Cylinders talent would be changed to increasing our shield and absorb by 5%.
The Valiance Legacy, Begeren Colony
"I don't get paid to do the easy jobs, ma'am."- Republic Trooper
Current 50's and 55's

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eatmydeece's Avatar


eatmydeece
02.26.2014 , 06:42 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSupaCoopa View Post
Duran'del here:

I'm going to add something. While we are in a good place in PVP, PvE is another matter.

DPS(PvE):
We could use a leap, especially since our "Gap closed" consists of either using grapple or berserker-charging them and spamming basic attack. Jet Charge would now be baseline, alon with Grapple, but be trained at level 45 instead.

Free rail shot would be an awesome buff, and bleed damage from RB should be buffed, plus overall damage from IM.

Prototype Cylinders for HEGC needs to be increased to 2%. Also, HEGC should have another effect that would make it a unique stance:

Increases tech and ranged accuracy by 3%. When your attacks critically hit, your tech bonus damage is increased by 1%, and the Cool down of Immolate and Rail shot is decreased by 1 second. Stacks up to 5 times and lasts 15 seconds.

Tank(PvP and PvE):
Power techs are not viable for NiM. We lack the arsenal of DCDs that Juggernauts have and the sheer mitigation of Assassins. An idea for a new CD that would take the place of Jet Charge(This ability would now be baseline) is Shield Overload. This ability would last 15s, and give the following effects:

-Shield Chance Increased to 100%. Automatic criticals would deal normal damage.
-Internal damage decreased by 25%.
-Armor increased by 50% for 5s after Shield Overcharge ends. All armor-decreasing debuffs would be removed and none could be applied for the remaining time.

I cannot speak for PvP except that we deal pitiful damage.our hardest hitting ability hits like a wet noodle. The damage dealt decrease in IGC should be changed to 2%. The Prototype Cylinders talent would be changed to increasing our shield and absorb by 5%.
PT tanks not viable for NiM? PT tanks everywhere laugh at you.
the idea for storm replacement is way OP also, be realistic, chances are in 3.0 we may gain another general def cd but atm we are fine.
We have absolutely no trouble with our PT tanks, if you seriously think that because we dont have as many def cds as a jugg or sin that makes us bad then L2P, passive mitigation for a PT is great if you want another cd use a clicky relic.
each tank class performs differently, so we cant have the passive mitigation a sin has but we dont take their spikes, we have better passive mitigation than a jugg so in return they have a better def cd suite. the thing about PTs def cd suite is the uptime you can have on them when rotating them all including adrenals.

As for dps, PTs still need some love, majority of the melee classes are pulling 10% more dps than the pure PT dps trees.
A quick way to fix PT dps is a roll back on all the nerfs we got because of the hybrid since its not viable anymore or at least rollback on "some" of the nerfs.
we have no "real" gap closer and perform equal lowest dps for melee in both dps specs, so something in the way of a gap closer of some kind would be nice.

our PT players in guild have been discussing lately about how a gap closer could be put into the dps specs.
A modification to and existing ability we have like how the threat dump for juggs was reworked could be possible.....

Storm - seems the obvious choice to make this a general powertech ability, but its so ingrained into the tank tree it shouldnt be touched.
For AP - modify torque booster to also increase the speed of hydraulic overrides up to 60%
For Pyrotec - modiify and existing in tree or add a new ability in tier 4 or 5 - grapple - if target is immune to pulls, you are pulled towards the target. otherwise target is pulled towards you.

i also think that. HEC needs some sort of change, atm it is only a 5% dmg increase, which is partly why you see the PT skank tank in pvp.

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OM-AR's Avatar


OM-AR
02.26.2014 , 08:46 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSupaCoopa View Post
Duran'del here:

I'm going to add something. While we are in a good place in PVP, PvE is another matter.

DPS(PvE):
We could use a leap, especially since our "Gap closed" consists of either using grapple or berserker-charging them and spamming basic attack. Jet Charge would now be baseline, alon with Grapple, but be trained at level 45 instead.

Free rail shot would be an awesome buff, and bleed damage from RB should be buffed, plus overall damage from IM.

Prototype Cylinders for HEGC needs to be increased to 2%. Also, HEGC should have another effect that would make it a unique stance:

Increases tech and ranged accuracy by 3%. When your attacks critically hit, your tech bonus damage is increased by 1%, and the Cool down of Immolate and Rail shot is decreased by 1 second. Stacks up to 5 times and lasts 15 seconds.

Tank(PvP and PvE):
Power techs are not viable for NiM. We lack the arsenal of DCDs that Juggernauts have and the sheer mitigation of Assassins. An idea for a new CD that would take the place of Jet Charge(This ability would now be baseline) is Shield Overload. This ability would last 15s, and give the following effects:

-Shield Chance Increased to 100%. Automatic criticals would deal normal damage.
-Internal damage decreased by 25%.
-Armor increased by 50% for 5s after Shield Overcharge ends. All armor-decreasing debuffs would be removed and none could be applied for the remaining time.

I cannot speak for PvP except that we deal pitiful damage.our hardest hitting ability hits like a wet noodle. The damage dealt decrease in IGC should be changed to 2%. The Prototype Cylinders talent would be changed to increasing our shield and absorb by 5%.
Regarding your pve dps post ( no idea on tanking ):
Jet charge for everyone would be great!
Regarding how to improve our pve damage without affecting pvp, I think improving our dots would aid in that. More damage and lower duration of incendiary and rb would be the start.
Free rail shot: with ppa isn't it already free? Or do you mean remove the active ability and make it a proc ability?
The stacking of hegc sounds great.

Shoulder cannon needs some love too, for not disappointing the pvp crowd: increase the damage and remove the cool down but lower the fire rate ( say once every 6 seconds ) or make it a proc ability from our actions.
The Red Eclipse:
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TheSupaCoopa's Avatar


TheSupaCoopa
02.26.2014 , 08:54 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by OM-AR View Post
Regarding your pve dps post ( no idea on tanking ):
Jet charge for everyone would be great!
Regarding how to improve our pve damage without affecting pvp, I think improving our dots would aid in that. More damage and lower duration of incendiary and rb would be the start.
Free rail shot: with ppa isn't it already free? Or do you mean remove the active ability and make it a proc ability?
The stacking of hegc sounds great.

Shoulder cannon needs some love too, for not disappointing the pvp crowd: increase the damage and remove the cool down but lower the fire rate ( say once every 6 seconds ) or make it a proc ability from our actions.
Yeah, I think we should get a bit of buffs for our DoTs. Rail shot costs 16 heat without PPA, so if RS was made free, maybe PPA would vent an additional 8 heat(total of 16 heat) or totally ignore armor and deal internal damage. I think the latter would be more likely. The Shoulder cannon suggestion is great for DPS(Maybe it would be a top-tier ability for Pyrotech?) But it would be extremely OP for Tanks.

You should totally try out tanking for PT. Its actually really fun because of the mitigation you get and its really easy to learn how to play. If you get a set of blue 66s eotha veracity implants and the [artifact] earpiece, you should set for 55 HMs.
The Valiance Legacy, Begeren Colony
"I don't get paid to do the easy jobs, ma'am."- Republic Trooper
Current 50's and 55's

vPLethality AmillarArturon

TheSupaCoopa's Avatar


TheSupaCoopa
02.26.2014 , 08:59 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by eatmydeece View Post
PT tanks not viable for NiM? PT tanks everywhere laugh at you.
the idea for storm replacement is way OP also, be realistic, chances are in 3.0 we may gain another general def cd but atm we are fine.
We have absolutely no trouble with our PT tanks, if you seriously think that because we dont have as many def cds as a jugg or sin that makes us bad then L2P, passive mitigation for a PT is great if you want another cd use a clicky relic.
each tank class performs differently, so we cant have the passive mitigation a sin has but we dont take their spikes, we have better passive mitigation than a jugg so in return they have a better def cd suite. the thing about PTs def cd suite is the uptime you can have on them when rotating them all including adrenals.

As for dps, PTs still need some love, majority of the melee classes are pulling 10% more dps than the pure PT dps trees.
A quick way to fix PT dps is a roll back on all the nerfs we got because of the hybrid since its not viable anymore or at least rollback on "some" of the nerfs.
we have no "real" gap closer and perform equal lowest dps for melee in both dps specs, so something in the way of a gap closer of some kind would be nice.

our PT players in guild have been discussing lately about how a gap closer could be put into the dps specs.
A modification to and existing ability we have like how the threat dump for juggs was reworked could be possible.....

Storm - seems the obvious choice to make this a general powertech ability, but its so ingrained into the tank tree it shouldnt be touched.
For AP - modify torque booster to also increase the speed of hydraulic overrides up to 60%
For Pyrotec - modiify and existing in tree or add a new ability in tier 4 or 5 - grapple - if target is immune to pulls, you are pulled towards the target. otherwise target is pulled towards you.

i also think that. HEC needs some sort of change, atm it is only a 5% dmg increase, which is partly why you see the PT skank tank in pvp.
I've got my Rakata absorb adrenal and Nano-infused absorb adrenal, so I don't need clickies. Clicky relics suck. I've got Obroan Relics of Fortunate Redoubt and Reactive warding, so I'm perfectly fine.

L2P? Seriously? Is that the best thing you could say to support your claim?

Our taunt has flight time, which can and will screw up tank swaps, such as the Brontes or TfB fights. That needs to be removed.
The Valiance Legacy, Begeren Colony
"I don't get paid to do the easy jobs, ma'am."- Republic Trooper
Current 50's and 55's

vPLethality AmillarArturon

Luckeyduckey's Avatar


Luckeyduckey
02.26.2014 , 10:02 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSupaCoopa View Post
Duran'del here:

I'm going to add something. While we are in a good place in PVP, PvE is another matter.

DPS(PvE):
We could use a leap, especially since our "Gap closed" consists of either using grapple or berserker-charging them and spamming basic attack. Jet Charge would now be baseline, alon with Grapple, but be trained at level 45 instead.

Free rail shot would be an awesome buff, and bleed damage from RB should be buffed, plus overall damage from IM.

Prototype Cylinders for HEGC needs to be increased to 2%. Also, HEGC should have another effect that would make it a unique stance:

Increases tech and ranged accuracy by 3%. When your attacks critically hit, your tech bonus damage is increased by 1%, and the Cool down of Immolate and Rail shot is decreased by 1 second. Stacks up to 5 times and lasts 15 seconds.
These are great for AP, but this does NOTHING for pyro (CD of pyro for Railshot is already 6 seconds by proc), which is better in PvE already. We could use a gap closer, but honestly it's going to be a minimal DPS increase at best. The DoTs need a buff.

TBH, we can't buff Railshot or Flameburst, because those are bursty attacks already. Pyro's DoTs should be the core of the spec, just under Railshot. Inc. missile should do double the current damage, but deal half the up front damage, and thermal detonator could use a 50% buff to it's DoT.

To further make it better, the CGC "DoT" needs to have a stacking effect, instead of a refresh factor. How it could work is that it lasts for 6-10 seconds, and each use of Flameburst increases the damage of that DoT by 100%, maxing at 3 stacks. It would NOT reset the cooldown/duration, as it wouldn't really be a DoT then. This is just a suggestion for CGC. My other suggestion is make Rocket Punch apply 20% more damage to the next 10 DoTs of the Pyro. Railshot would refresh the 3 stacks of Flameburst, and Flameburst would build the stacks. So you would use Flameburst 3 times, but after that Railshot would keep the DoT up unless it falls off, then you would have to rebuild it with Flameburst. To make this an overall DPS increase, flameburst would deal an additional DoT tick when you are at 3 stacks already.

TACeMossie's Avatar


TACeMossie
02.27.2014 , 12:09 AM | #80
I got an actual good one:

ALACRITY AND ITS NEGATIVE EFFECT ON PROCS

With the proposed changes for patch 2.7, Mercenaries are getting an 8-second lockout on the Barrage proc, as the 8-second lockout is still a 9-second lockout in a build with 0 alacrity - probably to counteract the default 3% alacrity granted by Armor Piercing Cylinder. However, Pyrotech Powertechs are in a similar situation: They need to take Rapid Venting in order to have decent resource management, but taking the talent gives them alacrity, throwing off the PPA Proc and making it happen far less than it should - in turn reducing DPS AND heat management.

So with the knowledge that the developers are willing to make internal cooldowns not allign with the GCD so alacrity works better with it, is there any chance of procs in the Powertech trees being modified to allow alacrity without hurting it anywhere near as badly? Examples would include changing Particle Proc Accelerator to have a 5.5 second lockout instead of a 6 second one, allowing 9.09% alacrity before it starts messing with things.