Seriously.

 

No other single ability in this game makes me want to kick someone out of a group faster.

 

I play a Sin tank and a PT tank on the Imp side. Having mobs grouped up in tight little balls benefits me greatly. I enjoy being able to hit everything all at once and allow my group mates to AoE til their heart is content. And that's usually when the Sin/Sorc DPS/Healer decides that using Overload for it's "good damage" is worth sacrificing the Snipers/Ops Orbital Strike or PT/Mercs Death from Above.

 

Transversely, I play a Sage TK DPS and a Sent Force Sweep machine. I enjoy being able to utilize some of my best DPS on multiple mobs in tightly packed bunches.

 

I really wish they would remove the damage from this ability so people would stop using the ability as anything more than a knockback.

 

/endrant

Only time I use mine in FPs is when MOBs are on me. If I knock the MOBs off the Tank, oh well but by the time I get my knockback off I try to be away from the tank and aimed so that the MOB should go to the tank.

Only time I use mine in FPs is when MOBs are on me. If I knock the MOBs off the Tank, oh well but by the time I get my knockback off I try to be away from the tank and aimed so that the MOB should go to the tank.

That buys you a second or 2 at most, but makes the tanks job harder so they'll come running back to you instead of the tank getting them. Bad move.

If it has a root attracted to it, it can situationally be good, but it also makes using it at the wrong time worse.

no all the mobs are on the tank, i'm such a bad i can't keep up with the healing

no, **** your aoe, xs freighter flyby sucks

force wave

yay tank isn't dying i can go back to being a bad

Except that shadows can force speed anywhere they want. They have tons more utility, cmon.

Force Speed is on a longer CD and is actually slower than the actual Leaps (it also doesn't deal damage, generate resources, or interrupt a cast). In addition, Guardians also get Guardian Leap for when they need to leap to targets, a better Slow (AoE with no CD and lasts longer), and an AoE CC (on a really short CD). The utility aspect isn't really a major factor in PvE, but it's pretty much the defining reason why Guardians are the best tanks (for actually tanking) in PvP.

Force Speed is on a longer CD and is actually slower than the actual Leaps (it also doesn't deal damage, generate resources, or interrupt a cast). In addition, Guardians also get Guardian Leap for when they need to leap to targets, a better Slow (AoE with no CD and lasts longer), and an AoE CC (on a really short CD). The utility aspect isn't really a major factor in PvE, but it's pretty much the defining reason why Guardians are the best tanks (for actually tanking) in PvP.

Your AoE slow does damage, builds high threat, is targetable, and doesn't break nearby cc! I don't want to hear it.

For pvp I completely agree, Guardians edge out Shadows for actually protecting people.

Your AoE slow does damage, builds high threat, is targetable, and doesn't break nearby cc! I don't want to hear it.

Slow Time is only barely a movement speed debuff (30% compared to 50%) and, even then, both of the Shadow slow effects are on CDs (12 sec for Force Slow and 7.5 for Slow Time). Slow Time doesn't really have much in the way of actual applicable utility (hence why 90% of PvP Shadow tanks don't bother taking it) so bringing it up in a discussion of *utility* (which is what's actually being discussed) is bringing up out of context abilities (especially since you're focusing on Slow Time's functionality as an actual attack rather than it's ability to contribute useful non-damage utility).

As I said before, Guardians have more utility than Shadows do. It's the *entire* reason why Guardians are the preferred PvP tanks (and the almost complete lack of utility for a VG tank is why they're pretty much never seen).

No, originally we were discussing PVE tanking, where shadows have the clear advantage in utility

I don't really think anyone would dispute that guardians are the most viable PVP protection tanks.

No, originally we were discussing PVE tanking, where shadows have the clear advantage in utility

It depends upon how you define utility. Guardian Leap is actually friggin' amazing and Freezing Force is a vastly superior slow than Force Slow or Slow Time. The issue, in PvE, is that most Guardians simply don't *use* said greater utility. Though, as I mentioned before, utility in PvE is of comparatively low value. Guardians actually have a *lot* of it; people just don't use it because it's not really needed in PvE because it doesn't really mean much in the end. In PvP, however, it's actually *used* since it *does* have a tangible effect upon end results.

The original discussion isn't actually relevant to *this* current discussion concerning the comparative utility capabilities of Guardians and Shadows. The original discussion was about a lot of people misidentifying Force Wave as an AoE damage attack rather than a knockback utility and annoying the living bejeesus out of tanks. We got to where we are because someone recommended giving Guardians an AoE pull, which would upset the balance between the tanks by giving the class that *already* has the most utility even more of it (yes, Force Speed is nice, but, in PvE, it's not really appreciably better than Force Leap, especially if you've also got Guardian Leap to get away from targets if you need/want; if you actually look at *all* of the non-damage/threat utility the class gets, Guardians have the most amongst the tanks).