Yeah, and where are marauders and powertechs on that? I know they are 15% ahead, easy. Even 11% is quite a gap don't you think?

 

Torparse you say?

 

http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Terror+From+Beyond/The+Terror+From+Beyond

 

Not a single sorc or sage in the top 50 on that fight.... hmmm

Uh, yeah there are, just not on SM on that particular boss. Look at the HM parses (which are more relevant anyway) and look at multiple bosses. Certain encounters favor some classes over others, but there are sorcs and sages all over the Top 50 parses for both HM TFB and HM EC.

Uh, yeah there are, just not on SM on that particular boss. Look at the HM parses (which are more relevant anyway) and look at multiple bosses. Certain encounters favor some classes over others, but there are sorcs and sages all over the Top 50 parses for both HM TFB and HM EC.

And they are not within 5% of the pure DPS classes. Exactly what the dude you're quoting is stating and I'm not sure why you're not wanting to understand that.

ALSO: according to THIS POST ALL advanced classes are balanced in K - D ratios. Did you guys know that DPS sorcs can kill as much as a marauder before they die????

These devs are clueless.

http://simulationcraft.org/swtor/130/Raid_Campaign_BiS.html

Our lowest sustained pve dps is 11% behind lethality, which is a bit less than the 15% you claim..

Yes, I know it's pve.

If we got a 15% damage buff, we'd be within 4%... as is, by BW's own admittance on what they consider balanced- this class isn't damage balanced.

And they are not within 5% of the pure DPS classes. Exactly what the dude you're quoting is stating and I'm not sure why you're not wanting to understand that.

 

ALSO: according to THIS POST ALL advanced classes are balanced in K - D ratios. Did you guys know that DPS sorcs can kill as much as a marauder before they die????

 

These devs are clueless.

If their metrics actually showed these things, we would have access to them to see for ourselves. KDR doesn't matter anyway- sorcs can get more kills just by throwing a dot on everyone. What'd be more interesting to see is deaths/match- last time I saw stats based on about 150 RWZ someone compiled- mara were at 5 deaths/match as the hardest to kill, sorcs were at 11 as the most killed.

Until I see BW's stats- I see no reason to consider their metrics and opinions bogus at best.

And they are not within 5% of the pure DPS classes. Exactly what the dude you're quoting is stating and I'm not sure why you're not wanting to understand that.

 

ALSO: according to THIS POST ALL advanced classes are balanced in K - D ratios. Did you guys know that DPS sorcs can kill as much as a marauder before they die????

 

These devs are clueless.

Kill/death ratios are only one small part of balance. They never said in that post that DPS output is balanced.

I have argued at length both in the class forums and the general forum that sages and sorcs need a damage buff for PvE. I've looked quite a bit at parses for all the operations. There is a DPS gap. I'm not arguing that. But I will also be the first to tell you that the "pure DPS" argument that people erroneously make regarding PvE is completely valid in PvP. Being able to self heal is next to worthless in PvE. But it is an advantage in PvP. I think that closes the gap somewhat in pure DPS output. So while we need a 5-10 percent buff in PvE, a 5 percent buff in PvP would be satisfactory.

Kill/death ratios are only one small part of balance. They never said in that post that DPS output is balanced.

 

I have argued at length both in the class forums and the general forum that sages and sorcs need a damage buff for PvE. I've looked quite a bit at parses for all the operations. There is a DPS gap. I'm not arguing that. But I will also be the first to tell you that the "pure DPS" argument that people erroneously make regarding PvE is completely valid in PvP. Being able to self heal is next to worthless in PvE. But it is an advantage in PvP. I think that closes the gap somewhat in pure DPS output. So while we need a 5-10 percent buff in PvE, a 5 percent buff in PvP would be satisfactory.

You're not getting the point here. They are using a statistic that is completely flawed to weigh in on balance when it shouldn't be (hence me saying they're clueless). We all can run around on our sorcs throwing affliction on something and if it dies, we get kill credit (Not to mention padding damage meters). The numbers are completely warped and are not an accurate representations of what is going on in a Warzone.

The same point was brought up for CL proc from Wrath pre 1.2. Bioware stated that Sorc damage was TOO HIGH because of that proc but anyone that played a sorc then knew they -still- could 1v1 only a few classes and were -still- wrecked by anything melee. The numbers that they weighed in on then were vastly distorted. (Lets also not forget that they were using numbers based off a 10-50 bracket, where lowbies were missing a wide array of talents that would effect over all WZ incoming damage)

They are not looking at the fact that nearly every Advanced Class trumps a DPS sorc. (exception being a DPS merc, who is unfortunately in the same level of neglect)

As for the healing comment: Being able to heal yourself does not save you through the burst that you're up against (and the trauma debuff that you have), nor the fact that getting somewhere "safe" to heal is near impossible if any class in this game chases you. Furthermore, Force management as a DPS Sorc is so atrocious that you leave yourself wide open to be unable to fight if you choose to heal yourself up. How long does it take a sorc to drop combat again to seethe because you're now out of force? As long as one of your dots are out, you are in combat and when that dot stops ticking finally, you have to wait even longer.

The fixes that sorcs need are some kind of potential burst and a defensive CD to deal with the amount of burst we are shattered by and that is something that Bioware doesn't see with all the distorted numbers they are using to gauge balance. We are a broken class that has to resort to a broken bubble hybrid to remain viable and them not acknowledging that is the sad part.

And they are not within 5% of the pure DPS classes. Exactly what the dude you're quoting is stating and I'm not sure why you're not wanting to understand that.

 

ALSO: according to THIS POST ALL advanced classes are balanced in K - D ratios. Did you guys know that DPS sorcs can kill as much as a marauder before they die????

 

These devs are clueless.

I'll repost what I just said there. This "analyst" statement is astounding, but explains so much.

Suddenly it all makes sense.

Now, I mean, in a shooter or something, it would make some semblance of sense to do it that way. Wouldn't be a perfect way to do it. But it might be better than throwing darts on the wall.

But a "kill" in a shooter isn't awarded the same way as it is in SWTOR. I'm not a "gee looky at my kills and medals at the end of a warzone" guy, so I never learned exactly what constitutes a kill in SWTOR. But it sure as Hell isn't a deathblow, which is how shooters do it. Couting up the amount of own-team kills vs the other team's deaths frequently yields something like a 4-1 ratio.

From what I can tell (and again, I'm someone who's preoccupied with winning and couldn't care less about stats or medals, so I might very well be wrong), a kill in SWTOR is the equivalent of an assist OR a kill in a shooter. Maybe more stuff. Seem to get quite a few kills on my healer, and its not like I go around dotting everything before I start tossing probes out or use grenade on cooldown (out of fear of accidentally breaking someone's cc when my attention's divided between the warzone and my op frame). So is healing a guy who kills a bunch of people giving me kills? If I mez someone, then someone else kills him a minute later when I'm nowhere near the guy, do I get a kill despite not damaging him?

Here's where the problem lies. Let's take Halo, because that's what I've been playing lately. Suppose there was a map with a ton of choke points. Suppose there was a weapon with a huge splash area that did very little damage. And suppose shields were 3 times as strong and regenerated ~ every 30 seconds. And suppose assists were counted as kills. Kill/Death ratio would have the devs believe that weapon was way better than, say, a DMR or battle rifle. But they'd be horribly, horribly wrong.

That's not unlike what the data in swtor would lead them to think if they use kill/death when a kill isn't actually a kill. Honestly, it would be better to use solo-kill/death ratio to balance the classes, though that would also be a pretty bad way to do it.

The original poster went with some extreme suggestions that will probably make sorc players feel more powerful but will ruin many sorc match-ups in the game.

Take Sniper vs Madness Sorc for example. Do you honestly believe that a madness sorc should have root cleansing for free with force speed? You are basically asking for roots to be removed completely out of any class matchup vs sorcs. That's huge dude.. That's way too powerful.

Next, you are asking for root immynity, while you yourself want to be a root machine. I guess you are one of those sorcs that consider Creeping Terror a bad top tier skill. I judge skills by the way how they synergize with other skills from that spec. And to me CT is a wonderful and very good instacast. If you are venture into hybrid theritory, then suddenly find lack of firepower, it's your fail, not other one's.

I'm really not in the mood to dissect your every suggestion, by judging by these two alone, your overall direction with sorc is pretty damn clear. You are asking for too much, while completely ignoring the need for sorc to have vulnerabilities in order for it to be a balanced class.

Here is how i would go if I had to improve sorc:

- Change the recklessness CD to 1 min

- All lightning abilities (force lightning, lightning strike and so on) damage type is switched to elemental instead of energy when recklessness is active. This will allow for considerably less mitigation from tanks and other heavy armors (that have DR against kinetic and energy).

As i don't think a sorc should loose to a tank that easily because his lightning damage is mitigated.

I would start from something subtle like this. Give sorcs an ability to control their damage type. (assasinss don't deserve this)

Uh, yeah there are, just not on SM on that particular boss. Look at the HM parses (which are more relevant anyway) and look at multiple bosses. Certain encounters favor some classes over others, but there are sorcs and sages all over the Top 50 parses for both HM TFB and HM EC.

HM parses then.

Writhing Horror http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Terror+From+Beyond/The+Writhing+Horror

Top dps 2425 by a gunslinger.

No sorc/sage in top 50, and this is a fight where lightning spec can easily rack up a ton of AOE damage.

Dreadguards http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Terror+From+Beyond/Ciphas%2C+Heirad%2C+%26+Kel%27sara

Top dps 2329 by an operative

Sorcs get an entry at 47 with 1717 dps.

So dps delta 612, or 26% behind.

Operator IX http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Terror+From+Beyond/Operator+IX

Top dps 1647 by a gunslinger

A sorc comes in at no 19 with 1401

So dps delata 246 or 14.9% behind

Kephess the Undying http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Terror+From+Beyond/Kephess+the+Undying

Oh we got 3275 by a powertech

An nope, a sorc or sage didn't make it in the top 50.

Terror from Beyond http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Terror+From+Beyond/The+Terror+From+Beyond

Top dps 1765 by a shadow

A sorc rolls in at number 22 with 1452

So that's a dps delta of 323 or 18.3%

Those charts are dominated by Powertechs, Marauders, Snipers, Operatives and Assassins with mercs and the odd juggernaut getting near the top in some of them. As for being "all over" the charts, I think the top one had 3 entries by sorc/sages in the top 50, and 2 by the same person, so no looking at those figures I can't see how you can make such a claim.

Sorcs are clearly being left way way behind, and there's no way we are "only" 11% behind snipers, despite what theorycratfing shows, in practice the gap is way bigger.

And yes this gap is huge in PvP too, operatives can heal too, and they clearly are ranking higher than us, so you can't really use that excuse either. Mercs have problems for other reasons, but it's not their dps that's lacking.

*if there are errors in my figures, please be so kind as to point them out, so I can revise them, although i doubt they are going to change the overall picture being painted here. Thank you.

-still- could 1v1 only a few classes and were -still- wrecked by anything melee. The numbers that they weighed in on then were vastly distorted.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24449796.jpg

It was quite OP back then, but that was when no one knew about interrupts, had expertise, or had the crazy HP pool they do now. Also, there were poppable relics and adrenals... it was possible to kill someone in 3-4 globals as a sorc back then, but those same circumstances don't exist now.

As for getting wrecked by melee 1v1... I still am not "wrecked" and I run hybrid dps... I remember being able to double dip into lightning barrage and gib them in a stun.

If we got a 15% damage buff, we'd be within 4%... as is, by BW's own admittance on what they consider balanced- this class isn't damage balanced.

This is our LOWEST simcrafted dps spec vs. SNIPER's HIGHEST and it is still not 15% behind, is what I'm saying. You said that we were 15% behind, and that just isn't true.

But whatever, you guys can have your ridiculously OP changes if the devs are insane enough to grant them. If they do come, have fun getting nerfed again a little bit later.

Theory-crafting will demonstrate the theoretical maximal DPS of a build.

Actual Hard-Mode Parses will show you the reality of those builds in a real-world.

Lack of Scientific Knowledge is the Problem Here:

Theory-Crafting = Control

HM Parses = Experiment

If the control indicates we should be within 11% of the top DPS but the actual experiments fail to demonstrate that we must logically recognize the disconnect and attempt to explain it.

Either all Sorcerers are Bad (relatively speaking), the difficulty curve of execution is too steep, or the AC itself cannot perform as advertised.

But to claim there is no problem because you are focusing on control data is intellectually incoherent.

Also, let me be clear.

This thread is not about your (whomever) personal and highly subjective experiences.

It is a discussion of the relative stature of the AC when compared against the full-community of SWTOR. An individual player's ability to outperform the mean in no way proves anything beyond the natural existence of an outlier.

Balance needs to be an issue of averages and in this case the Sorcerer clearly lags behind every other AC (with the unfortunate for them exception of Mercs).

Actual in-game play-time data from Hard Modes have described this same issue for literally months with no change.

Theoretical maximums and personal experiences are no substitution for the average experiences of in-game Sorcs across the Servers.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24449796.jpg

 

It was quite OP back then, but that was when no one knew about interrupts, had expertise, or had the crazy HP pool they do now. Also, there were poppable relics and adrenals... it was possible to kill someone in 3-4 globals as a sorc back then, but those same circumstances don't exist now.

 

As for getting wrecked by melee 1v1... I still am not "wrecked" and I run hybrid dps... I remember being able to double dip into lightning barrage and gib them in a stun.

There's nothing false about it. The people that you could 4 shot gib was if the heavens aligned: you had an adrenal + damage boost + relic and the person you were fighting was one of those poor suckers sub 50 who didn't have the talents to mitigate any of the incoming damage. The damage numbers that they read were the hugely distorted ones because of chain lightning + death field + affliction rolling. Which, by the way, was a wopping 7k in 2 gcds on geared players x3.

1v1, sorcs were laughed at by most classes. (Don't forget that was also when an operative/smuggler could 3 shot you with damage/adrenal stacking and SORCS were their favorite targets.)

Regardless of that side rant...

Sorc players have been asking for fixes for months. Look at the Class Feedback thread ffs. They all say the same thing or something along the same lines from both a PVP perspective and a PVE one. Bioware not paying attention to that thread specifically, is a joke.

There's nothing false about it. The people that you could 4 shot gib was if the heavens aligned: you had an adrenal + damage boost + relic and the person you were fighting was one of those poor suckers sub 50 who didn't have the talents to mitigate any of the incoming damage. The damage numbers that they read were the hugely distorted ones because of chain lightning + death field + affliction rolling. Which, by the way, was a wopping 7k in 2 gcds on geared players x3.

 

1v1, sorcs were laughed at by most classes. (Don't forget that was also when an operative/smuggler could 3 shot you with damage/adrenal stacking and SORCS were their favorite targets.)

 

Regardless of that side rant...

 

Sorc players have been asking for fixes for months. Look at the Class Feedback thread ffs. They all say the same thing or something along the same lines from both a PVP perspective and a PVE one. Bioware not paying attention to that thread specifically, is a joke.

The pic was aimed at the 1v1 statement. Sorcs are probably one of the best 1v1 classes.

There's too much here to comment on, but I noticed a lot of people repeating "the bubble is getting nerfed. BW already said so." So I figured that could use some clarification.

 

We're currently undergoing a lot of class rebalance for a future major patch, so it's an understatement to say that things aren't locked down yet. However, the problem with Backlash (Lightning's incapacitate on Static Barrier) is mostly that it can be applied to any target, making an entire team of allies stun-bubbled. Since this is such great utility for the Lightning Sorcerer, we don't want to change the effect of Backlash, but we are considering making the Backlash effect only apply to the original caster - so you only get a Backlash when you put your Static Barrier on yourself.

 

That's just the current idea. We don't have any plans on making Static Barrier or Backlash worse than it currently is for the Sorcerer that uses it.

 

We're aware that even this change lowers the amount of group support Lightning offers, so that's something we have to figure out before we can pull the trigger on Backlash.

 

I wish I could tell you guys more, but there isn't enough locked down yet. Rest assured, it's not as simple as "too good - nerf. Next."

Just quoting this because I'm sure a lot of folks missed it. For some reason, it's just now showing up today. Carry on.

I didn't read all the post but I did read the op's post and here are some of my thoughts for improvements.

Madness

Death Field: (I like the idea of adding a snare to this and 5 targets) Also a base damage increase here so it's a little underpowered from what it used to be and that should be the classes burst move being that it's on a 12 second cooldown.

Small increase in shock damage

Small increase in Force Lightning (this would be op if you could move and use this ability)

Whirlwind: lower the resolve it affects right now it gives nearlly full resolve which makes other cc useless if this ability is broken.

Creeping Terror needs to have it's damage doubled and have a snare effect at the end of the 2 second root this would remove the need for a root on force slow and remove another ability to use as Force Slow would not be needed by Madness Sorcs with the 31 point talent.

Small increases in base damage for Affliction and Crushing Darkness

Corruption

Healing Give a heal that heals the caster as well as the person being healed or make it a talent that upon healing 20% 35% 45% chance to be healed for the amount healed on a target can not happen more then once every 10 seconds.

Make Sprint immune to all CC not just movement imparing effects if you take Fadeout 2/2

I agree DI needs a buff on force reduction and activation time and 1.5 if you take the damage is to high to make it such a long casting time Other then that the tree is fine.

Lightning

This tree needs a lot help, at this time Tundering Blast hits a sliver harder then Death Field and only hits 1 target. I would like to see Reckless make this an instant cast as well as any cast that is 3 seconds or less.

I would also like to see casting Lightning Strike to cause a proc that allows instant chain lighning or thundering blast. Thundering blast should also hit 5 targets at a reduced damage but the target should be hit for full.

These changes would make them more mobile as they could sit on an instant and if they were flushed out by melee could use a proc plus instant recklessness to do spike damage on the run but only every 2 minutes.

Right now this tree is the weakest of all three.

Some people will just insist on whining unless their spec is the ridiculously OP flavor of the month. There are still marauders complaining on the PvP forum that derp-smash is under powered.

We could use a buff, and based on what I've seen in warzones, anything more than 5 percent would just be too much. If you are falling that far behind, you just aren't very good.

PvE is a different animal. The parses there show a larger disparity. A couple of specs need a slight nerf, and operatives/smugglers and sorcs/sages need a buff.

There's too much here to comment on, but I noticed a lot of people repeating "the bubble is getting nerfed. BW already said so." So I figured that could use some clarification.

 

We're currently undergoing a lot of class rebalance for a future major patch, so it's an understatement to say that things aren't locked down yet. However, the problem with Backlash (Lightning's incapacitate on Static Barrier) is mostly that it can be applied to any target, making an entire team of allies stun-bubbled. Since this is such great utility for the Lightning Sorcerer, we don't want to change the effect of Backlash, but we are considering making the Backlash effect only apply to the original caster - so you only get a Backlash when you put your Static Barrier on yourself.

 

That's just the current idea. We don't have any plans on making Static Barrier or Backlash worse than it currently is for the Sorcerer that uses it.

 

We're aware that even this change lowers the amount of group support Lightning offers, so that's something we have to figure out before we can pull the trigger on Backlash.

 

I wish I could tell you guys more, but there isn't enough locked down yet. Rest assured, it's not as simple as "too good - nerf. Next."

Why was this invisible until now?

Anyways, well-reasoned response about backlash and yeah, anyone with a brain knew backlash=only on sorc was something that probably needed to be done.

And yes, sometimes people forget that altering classes slightly can change the dynamic of a warzone greatly.

But because of that, one thing I'm not quite sure is wise is to do all the megachanges en masse. They're going to interact with each other in unforseeable ways. And the more that's changed, the more unpredictable those interactions are.

The original poster went with some extreme suggestions that will probably make sorc players feel more powerful but will ruin many sorc match-ups in the game.

 

Take Sniper vs Madness Sorc for example. Do you honestly believe that a madness sorc should have root cleansing for free with force speed? You are basically asking for roots to be removed completely out of any class matchup vs sorcs. That's huge dude.. That's way too powerful.

 

Next, you are asking for root immynity, while you yourself want to be a root machine. I guess you are one of those sorcs that consider Creeping Terror a bad top tier skill. I judge skills by the way how they synergize with other skills from that spec. And to me CT is a wonderful and very good instacast. If you are venture into hybrid theritory, then suddenly find lack of firepower, it's your fail, not other one's.

 

I'm really not in the mood to dissect your every suggestion, by judging by these two alone, your overall direction with sorc is pretty damn clear. You are asking for too much, while completely ignoring the need for sorc to have vulnerabilities in order for it to be a balanced class.

 

Here is how i would go if I had to improve sorc:

- Change the recklessness CD to 1 min

- All lightning abilities (force lightning, lightning strike and so on) damage type is switched to elemental instead of energy when recklessness is active. This will allow for considerably less mitigation from tanks and other heavy armors (that have DR against kinetic and energy).

 

As i don't think a sorc should loose to a tank that easily because his lightning damage is mitigated.

 

I would start from something subtle like this. Give sorcs an ability to control their damage type. (assasinss don't deserve this)

Getting two elemental crits per minute isn't going to make much of a difference at all- and as I said, I was making the suggestions in the hopes that two or three might happen- I knew full well they weren't all going to happen.

As for force speed- actually that would turn a sorc from a pin cushion the moment a sniper sees them into having a chance to evade the sniper- I think it's better to have match ups not be decided the instant they start- but that's just me.

Right now- force speed at baseline ignores snares. Root is considered a 100% snare, which is why roots aren't counted in resolve despite how godly they are. If roots are going to be considered snares- they need to behave like snares, meaning force speed should ignore it. OR, root needs to be considered roots, and be effected by resolve like all other forms of hard CC. Not being able to move is a death sentence as a sorc- and it's absurd that you can watch your entire resolve bar go from full to zero while standing still being pummeled by a carnage mara who can chain 9 seconds of roots together- and have another 3 second root ready 3 seconds after that's done.

You say creeping terror is good? Even people who go madness only go partial madness in pvp- I have never seen a top RWZ team show off their composition and a full madness sorc is part of it- yet a carnage mara is part of almost every single team.

As for synergy- really? Let me point out how the synergy of this class is.

Madness- you have wrath procs that can be used on crushing darkness (great spell, perfect as is, wouldn't change it) that proc off force lightning (again, great spell, could do better with mobility considering dots classes shouldn't be chanelling- but damagewise this ability is made well) and also proc free lightning strikes... which do so little damage you are better off continuing to use FL .

Instant WW- buffing a mez in a spec that relies on you using dots. Nevermind that all other classes with mezzes are INSTANT and AOE- we get a single target mez that normally has a cast.

Lightning- you're spamming LS to begin with- which does terrible damage for a 2 second cast, it does damage on par with auto attacks while being immobile. Look higher and we have TB- which nobody actually uses because the damage is so subpar, but if we did it is able to auto crit- much like smash. See, smash hits hard enough though that you can afford to go all power and ignore crit rating- TB doesn't. Furthermore- lightning relies on crits from top to bottom- so you have a tree that expects you to have a good crit rating giving you an auto crit ability? That's good synergy to you?

Corruption- consumption can be buffed up to be free from force degeneration- however, as it is the tree's staple force regeneration ability, that almost entirely nullifies the point of it- there's a reason even before stun bubble healers all went part lightning for their force management. It still always takes health, which is something you can't spare in pvp- and it's not even off the GCD. Add to that we have a top tier healing talent that increases accuracy- a stat the class doesn't use period.

That's synergy to you? This class has the worst talent synergy in the game- why do you think nobody uses the pure builds?

Force speed without roots would at least do something to help with being chain rooted. Right now this class has nothing for CC immunity at baseline- zilch. We can ignore snares for 2 seconds with force speed, but otherwise we're the plaything of classes that have multiple CC- and there's alot of it out there.

There's too much here to comment on, but I noticed a lot of people repeating "the bubble is getting nerfed. BW already said so." So I figured that could use some clarification.

 

We're currently undergoing a lot of class rebalance for a future major patch, so it's an understatement to say that things aren't locked down yet. However, the problem with Backlash (Lightning's incapacitate on Static Barrier) is mostly that it can be applied to any target, making an entire team of allies stun-bubbled. Since this is such great utility for the Lightning Sorcerer, we don't want to change the effect of Backlash, but we are considering making the Backlash effect only apply to the original caster - so you only get a Backlash when you put your Static Barrier on yourself.

 

That's just the current idea. We don't have any plans on making Static Barrier or Backlash worse than it currently is for the Sorcerer that uses it.

 

We're aware that even this change lowers the amount of group support Lightning offers, so that's something we have to figure out before we can pull the trigger on Backlash.

 

I wish I could tell you guys more, but there isn't enough locked down yet. Rest assured, it's not as simple as "too good - nerf. Next."

This sounds slightly promising that you're considering other things- do remember that in RWZ people are taking sorcs for one reason- the GROUP utility of lightning/corruption. Take away that stun bubble and we will be replaced by double operative healers once again.

If you want us to have a place in RWZ as healers we need to have something to offer- and right now we don't have a place as DPS period, so consider that. Making backlash self only destroys our group utility- which is all we are valued for right now.

This was the nerf we expected- I'm just hoping if you go through with it you'll give us the buff we need.

This sounds slightly promising that you're considering other things- do remember that in RWZ people are taking sorcs for one reason- the GROUP utility of lightning/corruption. Take away that stun bubble and we will be replaced by double operative healers once again.

 

If you want us to have a place in RWZ as healers we need to have something to offer- and right now we don't have a place as DPS period, so consider that. Making backlash self only destroys our group utility- which is all we are valued for right now.

 

This was the nerf we expected- I'm just hoping if you go through with it you'll give us the buff we need.

What this guy said and is exactly what I've been saying all along. When the bubble gets nerfed (and if you're looking to take it off our targets too) the need for a Sorc in RWZ, disappears.

Please go look at our damn class feedback thread Peckenpuffs.

This is what you'll find in case you don't feel like trudging a few clicks away:

1- We're the glass cannon, without the cannon (putting these together since they go hand in hand) Other AC's see us as an easy target and kill, ususually focused first by everyone to get one less enemy on the field.. (Majority of these statements were made pre bubble of stupidity and since it'll be nerfed... the statements will be accurate again).

2- Our PVE DPS is -way- behind. Which it is and plenty of people in this thread have pointed it out using torparse as an example.

3- We need a defensive CD worth a damn (Currently, bubble hybrid spec is the only viable option because it's a broken (Or unintended) mechanic that gives us a few more seconds to run.) Force sprint is easily counterable, Bubble is easily broken by EVERY AC in the game with one GCD and that brand new self heal for a DPS sorc? Half of a non crit smash is what it heals for with trauma.

4- Force Regen for Madness DPS sorcs is atrocious in WZ's and we're forced to -kill ourselves- to get back the battery juice to hurt things again.

5- Sorc Madness DoT's are terrible and scale in a pathetic fashion.

And just a personal add:

6- DEATH MARK IS STILL BUGGED. (So is the Lethality sniper dot thing that does the same effect). There's video proof, still no response. (( it's a complete PVE dps loss if there's 2 sorcs//assassins. ))

Take Sniper vs Madness Sorc for example. Do you honestly believe that a madness sorc should have root cleansing for free with force speed? You are basically asking for roots to be removed completely out of any class matchup vs sorcs. That's huge dude.. That's way too powerful.

 

Next, you are asking for root immynity, while you yourself want to be a root machine. I guess you are one of those sorcs that consider Creeping Terror a bad top tier skill. I judge skills by the way how they synergize with other skills from that spec. )

There's a difference between root immunity- and every 20 seconds being able to break roots. This class has ZERO defensives, we take between 15-20% bonus damage from all attacks due to being light armoured, we can be interrupted at almost every cast we have- we are squishy and mobility is absolutely needed to survive.

Yet- we can be immobilized and be able to do nothing about it minus the 2 minute CC break.

Now, as for being gods of rooting- please pay attention. This class can have a maximum of 1 root no matter how you spec- either a 2 second root, or a 2 second but can last 5 seconds without damage.

This class is constantly called the 'kiting class' and survival in all specs does rely on kiting.

Let's just look at the baseline of this class for a moment.

A kiting class- with no CC or root break period. A kiting class- with no spammable snare. A kiting class- with no root. A kiting class- with almost every ability with a cast time. A kiting class that cannot keep even a single target perma snared because our snare is on a longer CD than duration.

That sound like a kiting class to you?

Even if you go into specs- you get at most one root, and you still can't perma snare unless you are channeling and thus rooted yourself.

There are classes that have better baseline kiting ability than we have fully specced- classes that don't need to be kiters at all.

Again- we do not have perma snares, we do not have any CC immunity, we do not have a baseline root- we are the sorriest excuse for a 'kiting class' in the history of mmos. Worst yet- we're against classes that are built not to anti kite us- but to anti kite vastly superior kiters like frost mages- a carnage mara can root us for 9 seconds straight- 9 SECONDS- and after that's over they're 3 seconds away from having a root back up- and between that they have a stun and a mez. A carnage mara can keep you utterly immobile for almost half a minute straight- and not be utterly dry even then.

And you want to tell me that adding a perma snare, root breaker and baseline root is going to make a class with no defensive CD, no casting mobility, and some of the lowest burst in the game OP? Really?

I disagree, sorcs are fne as is. they have great dps, great survivability, lightning spec is not made for pvp, but for pve (imo). your changes will just make them even more op and even harder to kill.

Except RWZ compositions have nearly every sorc being part lightning, and a healer. So- you're wrong on dps, and you're wrong on lightning spec.

Then again, you seem to think sorcs are OP and hard to kill- so I can only assume you haven't played this game since January. Check out the class feedback thread- where 99% of people agree that everyone considers this class a free kill. Yup, that's survivability that's fine for you huh?