Hey there,

 

So I have been watching SWTOR Central's latest livestream where he did the Rishi Datacron and subsequently some Beyond the Walls in the Rishi village. During that part of the livestream some of the GSF chat on the Red Eclipse became visible and to be frank... what I saw shocked me. The way they ralked about other players in the game that supposedly did badly in a GSF match... toxic, really toxic.

 

Now I hope that was only a small part of the GSF playerbase and not representative of the entirety, but if it is I am not surprised that people steer clear from that part of the game. I would not want to come in touch with players like that, it would severely ruin my fun in playing SWTOR. Where is the logic in bashing people and speaking seriously without respect about them and then wondering why the GSF community is so small?

Instead of bashing people the GSF playerbase could extend an inviting hand to those not skilled in Starfighter and try to teach them. Not only would it show the GSF community as an open and kind part of the playerbase but also pull in more players trying out that aspect of the game.

 

Perhaps I am mistaken and what I saw in SWTOR Central's livestream was a one time thing, but I really felt it was needed to point it out on the forums.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ylliarus

any pvp chats are ''toxic'' sometimes ... i dont think its a problem .. if ppl dont like it .. they dont read it ..

 

ppl decide to dont play gsf because of some bad game machanics ..

nerver heard someone dont play it because of the chat ..

 

perhaps u should put the same thread in the ground pvp area .. they are much more toxic than a few pilots ...

shocked by the gsf community ... come on ..

 

i think it just was one person (me) ... and the most insulting words i used are '' coward '' ''noob'' or ''looser '' ...

sometimes that must be said..

any pvp chats are ''toxic'' sometimes ... i dont think its a problem .. if ppl dont like it .. they dont read it ..

 

ppl decide to dont play gsf because of some bad game machanics ..

nerver heard someone dont play it because of the chat ..

 

perhaps u should put the same thread in the ground pvp area .. they are much more toxic than a few pilots ...

 

So basically what you're saying is "turn a blind eye"? You'll have to excuse me, but I don't see that as the solution to people responding in a toxic manner to others.

 

shocked by the gsf community ... come on ..

 

i think it just was one person (me) ... and the most insulting words i used are '' coward '' ''noob'' or ''looser '' ...

sometimes that must be said..

 

How long then until those words flow over into "go kill yourself" and such terms? I don't believe you need to use those insults, especially if you're trying to get new players to the GSF community. Sure, point out what they did wrong in a constructive manner, but don't go calling them a "loser" or "coward". There may be people with a low self esteem that will take such words to heart, have you considered how the opposite end of the insult may feel?

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ylliarus

i cant get hit by words in a online chat or forums ...

 

i know i shouldnt do it .. but sometimes u need to

i apologize if i hurt someone ..

 

feel free to be better than me ...

but dont say its the community .. its just a few guys like me .. most of the pilots on red eclipse are just ''normal''

i cant get hit by words in a online chat or forums ...

 

i know i shouldnt do it .. but sometimes u need to

i apologize if i hurt someone ..

 

feel free to be better than me ...

but dont say its the community .. its just a few guys like me .. most of the pilots on red eclipse are just ''normal''

 

If such is the truth then perhaps my worries are unfounded. I really hope that is the case and that I misjudged the overall GSF community.

 

If anything I can applaud your response here

You're most certainly witnising the exception and not the rule. GSF Players by far and wide are actually mostly helpful and usually willing to group you'll find

I mean... I've seen us (including me) complain about how poorly pub side is or players costing us a match or whatnot, but rarely do I see blatant outright insulting of specific players.

 

Yeah GSF can get toxic but I usually see more people trying to be helpful. The problem is that newcomers or mediocre "veterans" refuse to listen to advice, particularly on JC.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited January 30, 2017 by FlavivsAetivs

The problem is that "veterans" refuse to listen to advice, particularly on JC.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Especially me

Definitely an exception. The TRE GSF community has been very helpful to me, and over the few months I've been playing GSF I haven't seen anything like you describe in the GSF chat (except of course when "You-Know-Who" from Harbinger comes playing in TRE, telling us over and over how great he is, how bad we are, how grateful we should be in his presence, et cetera...)

Especially me

 

Go home Traesha, you're drunk.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited January 30, 2017 by FlavivsAetivs

The problem is that newcomers or mediocre "veterans" refuse to listen to advice, particularly on JC.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Well said by the pilot flying the clarion with proton torpedoes

You're most certainly witnising the exception and not the rule. GSF Players by far and wide are actually mostly helpful and usually willing to group you'll find

 

GSF players by rule are in fact helpful however, /GSF chat has been toxic across many servers for quite some time. I have been saying that telling new people to /cjoin GSF is not really good advice anymore. And of course I am then informed by the established GSF clique and everything is just fine and there are no problems. When I am trying to help people on The Harbinger I have them go to our old GSF channel that the [Locust Swarm] does not know about.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Lendul

Lendul, considering that the point of the /gsf channel is designed to facilitate grouping and social interaction of pilots as well as stimulating the ques, deliberately dividing the community based on your own feelings about what is right and wrong may be more harmful than you may think. If your ideas about the game are so correct, then why do you feel the need to shield these players from any conflicting viewpoints? It is almost as if you feel, somewhere deep inside, that perhaps your idea of what this community SHOULD be may not be able to hold water based on their own merits.

GSF players by rule are in fact helpful however, /GSF chat has been toxic across many servers for quite some time. I have been saying that telling new people to /cjoin GSF is not really good advice anymore. And of course I am then informed by the established GSF clique and everything is just fine and there are no problems. When I am trying to help people on The Harbinger I have them go to our old GSF channel that the [Locust Swarm] does not know about.

 

Man, I know about /flyboys. It's not like it's some secret.

Maybe it's a US vs EU thing, but On TRE and Progenitor the GSF chat is usually warm and friendly. - even to new pilots.

-There is a little frustration to those who join a match and AFK - but I don't it only gets as bad as "3xAFK-ers. so we're 5v8 GRR!" - and those pilots are unlikely to be stayers.

 

In fact so long as you try hard, over here in Europe you can usually get some friendly advice, pointers and invites to queue with old-timers to help you get your req quicker and some protection from the more predatory pilots on the opposing team.

As it was said, its PVP (player vs player) in such conversations you get a lot of "that" talk, its normal. GSF is a bit more complex than people might think, you have buffs, debuffs and "gear" in form or mastered ships, which are better than what new comers come with.

that perhaps your idea of what this community SHOULD be may not be able to hold water based on their own merits.

Some people tell others how they "should" fly or "should" spec their ships, but man o man if you ever tell one of those people how they "should" behave aka the META behavior for player retention...then let the butt hurt commence. Edited January 30, 2017 by Lendul

Well said by the pilot flying the clarion with proton torpedoes

 

I teach people how to fly gunship and scout, since I know the basics, and advise them to avoid strikes. Contrary to what I fly.

 

Honestly I can't fly anything but a Clarion/Bomber effectively since I need the continuous stream of fire from something like quads/lasers to hit things, and need the high survivability of it, because I usually play with low framerate (10-30 FPS depending on how cooperative my Tablet decides to be) on poor internet connection.

 

If I had higher framerate I could actually hit something with a BLC or a gunship.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited January 30, 2017 by FlavivsAetivs

@OP - definitely the exception to the rule. In my travels across various servers, I've found /gsf to be dominated by helpful folks, typically only interested in sharing tips and assisting their fellow pilots. Yes, you will inevitably find a few negative nancies, but imo their voices are drowned out by the positivity. Relatively speaking, if we're using a 1-10 scale where 1 is hugs and rainbows, and 10 is a toxic cesspool of hate, then /gsf is usually a 3, /pvp is a 10. And fleet chat is an 11.

GSF players by rule are in fact helpful however, /GSF chat has been toxic across many servers for quite some time. I have been saying that telling new people to /cjoin GSF is not really good advice anymore. And of course I am then informed by the established GSF clique and everything is just fine and there are no problems. When I am trying to help people on The Harbinger I have them go to our old GSF channel that the [Locust Swarm] does not know about.

 

This strikes me as brutally awful advice. I gather you've got some issues with the "GSF establishment" - but to misdirect new pilots on the basis of that personal bias just seems petty and mean. /gsf is not moderated by any clique. Nearly every veteran pilot is in there. That is where new folks should go to gather an array of useful advice and opinions. Not some little-known channel populated by (what I can only assume) is a miniscule subset of GSFers representing (again, assuming) one particular perspective.

Well said by the pilot flying the clarion with proton torpedoes

 

I lol'ed

 

 

This strikes me as brutally awful advice. I gather you've got some issues with the "GSF establishment" - but to misdirect new pilots on the basis of that personal bias just seems petty and mean. /gsf is not moderated by any clique. Nearly every veteran pilot is in there. That is where new folks should go to gather an array of useful advice and opinions. Not some little-known channel populated by (what I can only assume) is a miniscule subset of GSFers representing (again, assuming) one particular perspective.

GSF chat when viewed through the lens of "protect the clique", denial, ostrich perspective or idealized theory is what you say it is. In reality though more times than not anymore it is a hub for epeen stroking, cyber threats, and general peeing contest. I mean seriously. Would you gamble your paycheck on a new person deciding to GSF based solely off a random 3-minute exposure to GSF chat?

Edited January 30, 2017 by Lendul

GSF chat when viewed through the lens of "protect the clique", denial, ostrich perspective or idealized theory is what you say it is. In reality though more times than not anymore it is a hub for epeen stroking, cyber threats, and general peeing contest. I mean seriously. Would gamble your paycheck on a new person deciding to GSF based solely off a random 3-minute exposure to GSF chat?

 

You and I have very different perspectives on the GSF channel. I have found negativity to be rare indeed.

Lendul I must say you can sometimes have some very conspiratorial ideas about this community that border on the paranoid, but I must applaud you for your creative use of the English language; your posts often do make me laugh simply due to a creative choice of wording.

GSF chat when viewed through the lens of "protect the clique", denial, ostrich perspective or idealized theory is what you say it is. In reality though more times than not anymore it is a hub for epeen stroking, cyber threats, and general peeing contest. I mean seriously. Would you gamble your paycheck on a new person deciding to GSF based solely off a random 3-minute exposure to GSF chat?

 

Random 3-minute exposure to /gsf is likely to cause a new person's head to explode. Information overload. It must look like we're speaking another language.

 

Yes, sometimes the discussion devolves into a urination contest. And periodically an impromptu epeen measuring contest does break out. But that doesn't diminish the value of the channel. Just this afternoon on JC we had a guy join /gsf and ask for advice. He's a new pilot who reads this forum (hi Sakov!) and learned about the channel right here. I happened to be on at the time, as was fellow forumite Oscardivine (hi Oscar!). This individual was asking specifically how best to spec a Star Guard. I gave him my thoughts on a decent Star Guard build, but added that I thought the Nova was a good choice to learn on. Oscar gave his opinion (much the same as mine), we discussed some components/upgrades, and grouped with the dude for a couple of matches. He did very well for a new GSFer, and seemed appreciative of our assistance.

 

The experience raised many questions for me. Is this the kind of toxic chatter Lendul is wary of? Have Oscar and I outed ourselves as members of the GSF Cabal? Would the secret Harb channel have proven a superior resource for our new comrade?

 

If that channel is such a terrific fount of information (and I can't say it isn't, I have no idea who frequents it), then evangelize it as a complement to /gsf. Shouldn't be either/or. Though I guess if you want to shield your discussions from the prying eyes of the Illuminati, you can't very well publicize it, can you?

 

I'm trying to comprehend what you gain by attempting to shunt new players away from one of the best resources available to them. Even if you disagree with some of the opinions therein. Does not compute.

Edited January 30, 2017 by MaximilianPower

I've pretty much lurked in the /GSF channel since I moved to Harbinger years ago. It is undeniably less toxic than General or PVP chat, and I will take that wager any day. In fact, probably the only channel less toxic is your Guild's channel. Maybe /Trade. That's not to say there aren't periods of toxicity, but you cannot expect 100% of players to be 100% polite 100% of the time in what is functionally equivalent to an unmoderated anonymous internet chat room. Especially on Harbinger, you're going to be dealing with a variety of ages, cultural backgrounds, coping skill maturity, tiredness, and sobriety levels, all of which affect toxicity at any given point in the day.

 

There are definitely pilots who are very committed to their point of view. There are veteran pilots who religiously fly the meta, vets who defy the meta for fun or a challenge, and there's everyone else. Sometimes Lendul is more accurate, sometimes Sriia is more accurate, but neither are 100% correct 100% of the time. Despite that, there's one thing we can all agree on:

 

GSF needs developer love.

 

And until that happens, there will be some tension that goes beyond the mere competitiveness of twitch-based pvp.