There was no good reason for the asking to begin with. If someone got killed by a capital ship turret, they had bad situational awareness. What was needed was a way to stop people from AFKing for rewards, not removal of spawn protection.

 

This change will disproportionately hurt new players, which is horrible for the game. Why new players? Because, before this, there was no incentive to actively lure newbies to the capital ship, when you could easily kill them in the open. But there is now no disincentive to push as hard as possible to catch people as they spawn.

You can no longer use the cap ships as an indestructible oneshotting turret to make it win for you, get over it. If the enemy team has a picket line around all 3 of your spawn points and you can't get out from any of then, you lost the match before it even started and this change makes 0 difference.

Personally I've never been spawn camped even in blowout games.

I've seen one TDM that I backfilled into where we would've been spawn camped without the turrets. I have most definitely inflicted it on other teams on my server several times in TDM. It's not hard to do, and there were GSF regulars on the receiving end that didn't swap spawns, instead trying to push the kill circle around the spawn outward (and failing). I think the chances are very good that inexperienced players will simply repsawn endlessly to their deaths at the default location.

Keep in mind that "spawn camped" before this change was being killed at 11km from spawn, whereas after this patch it will literally be spawn camped, with ion aoe, drone and burst laser fire immediately on entry.

Fair question. I'll try to explain myself.

Now I understand. By killball I assume to are referring to a situation like pre-patched Ilum pvp. I really hope that doesn't happen here. That would ruin GSF more than any other problem that has been brought up.

Excuse me a moment.

I'm just going to be over here, cackling nefariously in a very un-Jedi fashion.

The fact that they have mines on your spawn zone means the match started sucking long before that.

Yeah, this. If your team doesn't suck from the get-go, this won't be an issue.

Finally, the Jedi Covenant Imperial modus operandi of parking 3-4 gunships in a picket line 15km from the capital ships every TDM will be rendered moot.

What? I play almost exclusively imp on JC and I think I've seen this "MO" exactly once. 90% of the groups I join aren't organized enough to set this up anyway. Typically, there is zero communication (I'm always talking to myself in chat) and everyone's playing their own game. This is largely is why we get dismantled so frequently.

By killball I assume to are referring to a situation like pre-patched Ilum pvp.

Most/all of the team in one spot slaughtering anything in range.

I didn't play Ilum pre-patch, but I heard that's how it was for imps, so I'd say your analogy is probably correct.

Finally, the Jedi Covenant Imperial modus operandi of parking 3-4 gunships in a picket line 15km from the capital ships every TDM will be rendered moot.

How's that? This just means the capitol ships won't protect spawners. Now you can enjoy a line of gunships sniping you immediately after you spawn.

I've seen one TDM that I backfilled into where we would've been spawn camped without the turrets...

I don't doubt it happens now and I certainly can see it happening post patch tomorrow. I was just commenting that personally I have never been in a situation where i couldn't fly to the center of the map or engage the enemy back line. even when pushed back. This could just be the product of playing on a PvE server and while 3-4 man premades are common I almost never see a multi-group premade.

I also have to admit I've 'camped' a losing team (siting neat the rock pillars on Kuat or the big asteroid on shipyards as a scout). I know it isn't fun for the other team but the only way to end the match faster is to kill them and get to 50. It's nothing personal.

You can no longer use the cap ships as an indestructible oneshotting turret to make it win for you, get over it. If the enemy team has a picket line around all 3 of your spawn points and you can't get out from any of then, you lost the match before it even started and this change makes 0 difference.

I'm sorry, but you don't understand why I'm complaining about this. Capital ships won't get kills except against the inexperienced or the stupid, who were going to get farmed to begin with but could at least get a chance to try and fight and get better.

The new changes increase the likelihood that these players will get farmed at a much faster rate than before, and won't re-queue to get better. Losing matches isn't a problem, but a large number of people losing matches in a stupid and repetitive way is just going to lead to frustration and less q pops.

Most/all of the team in one spot slaughtering anything in range.

 

I didn't play Ilum pre-patch, but I heard that's how it was for imps, so I'd say your analogy is probably correct.

Here is a clip of what it was like.

Here is a clip of what it was like.

Hey, at least there will only be eight or so guys farming you when you spawn instead of fifty!

I'm sorry, but you don't understand why I'm complaining about this. Capital ships won't get kills except against the inexperienced or the stupid, who were going to get farmed to begin with but could at least get a chance to try and fight and get better.

 

The new changes increase the likelihood that these players will get farmed at a much faster rate than before, and won't re-queue to get better. Losing matches isn't a problem, but a large number of people losing matches in a stupid and repetitive way is just going to lead to frustration and less q pops.

And constantly playing peekaboo with the cap ship cause every scout and gs in a match will do nothing but boost to it immediately is a good thing? It's not an ideal solution, but it's a solution to a problem that was getting out of hand and something needed to be done FAST.

The new changes increase the likelihood that these players will get farmed at a much faster rate than before, and won't re-queue to get better. Losing matches isn't a problem, but a large number of people losing matches in a stupid and repetitive way is just going to lead to frustration and less q pops.

^ This. Getting spawn camped is one of the worst gaming experiences one can have. It's just dumb. Spawn in, die, spawn in, die. That's not a good experience for GSF.

I'm sorry, but you don't understand why I'm complaining about this. Capital ships won't get kills except against the inexperienced or the stupid, who were going to get farmed to begin with but could at least get a chance to try and fight and get better.

 

The new changes increase the likelihood that these players will get farmed at a much faster rate than before, and won't re-queue to get better. Losing matches isn't a problem, but a large number of people losing matches in a stupid and repetitive way is just going to lead to frustration and less q pops.

I disagree. What you would see happen more often is one team (winning OR losing, I've seen both) would retreat to over their capital ship, set up their Gunships, and pick people off who wandered too close. I came to call this tactic a "Gunny Camp", and it was no fun for anyone. No-one could get close enough to engage for fear of capital ship fire, and the Gunny Campers could sit with impunity and bloody noses from the limit of their range.

It effectively meant the engagement was over. There would be no more mixing it up, no more close-quarters dogfighting...just sitting at sixteen klicks from the target you SO wanted to kill, but they wouldn't come out and play.

Worse were the sissies of all ship types who, once their got their noses bloodied, would run crying for their mother(ship). GSF is about mixing it up, and trying to outfly the bad guys through superior tactics, hardware, and team coordination. You don't wimp out and quit fighting before the fighting's done. I made a special point of WAITING for folks who did that after I bloodied their noses, just so I could catch them when they got bold again and make them take their medicine.

I disagree. What you would see happen more often is one team (winning OR losing, I've seen both) would retreat to over their capital ship, set up their Gunships, and pick people off who wandered too close. I came to call this tactic a "Gunny Camp", and it was no fun for anyone. No-one could get close enough to engage for fear of capital ship fire, and the Gunny Campers could sit with impunity and bloody noses from the limit of their range.

 

It effectively meant the engagement was over. There would be no more mixing it up, no more close-quarters dogfighting...just sitting at sixteen klicks from the target you SO wanted to kill, but they wouldn't come out and play.

 

Worse were the sissies of all ship types who, once their got their noses bloodied, would run crying for their mother(ship). GSF is about mixing it up, and trying to outfly the bad guys through superior tactics, hardware, and team coordination. You don't wimp out and quit fighting before the fighting's done. I made a special point of WAITING for folks who did that after I bloodied their noses, just so I could catch them when they got bold again and make them take their medicine.

What made me stop doing GSF, was the fact that even if you didn't want to do this, if your team did you have no choice in the matter. When half your team does nothing, going out is meaningless.

Precisely. I'm not kidding when I say, it's NO. FUN. FOR ANYONE.

Even the people doing it! Sure, you've preserved your stats and salvaged maybe a LITTLE bit of pride if you were losing, but you couldn't even put the mean ol' nasties away yourself! You had to rely on a nanny-nursemaid environmental tactic to save your sorry hide!

Would being able for both sides to respawn only at any of the now 6 spawn points be a reasonable option?

Start of Deathmatch you may only spawn at the 3 for your side. After being killed all are open. Or maybe after a set time in game (like a minute) they all become available.

Just a thought..............bob

Would being able for both sides to respawn only at any of the now 6 spawn points be a reasonable option?

 

Start of Deathmatch you may only spawn at the 3 for your side. After being killed all are open. Or maybe after a set time in game (like a minute) they all become available.

 

Just a thought..............bob

Makes me think of slayer games in Halo. Spawn... energy sword (or shotgun) to the back... dang. Or the flip side. Spawn... Hey there's a guy in front of me... melee attack to the back of the head.

To those who are for this be aware: There will always be people that will find away around the system.

Theres nothing I can say in this post that hasn`t already been said but, I agree that this will hurt GSF in the long run.

To those who are for this be aware: There will always be people that will find away around the system.

Theres nothing I can say in this post that hasn`t already been said but, I agree that this will hurt GSF in the long run.

A problem exists one way or the other. What I think really should have been done would be to turn the capital ships into exhaustion zone. Enemy ships would still die to the cap ship lasers and you couldn't camp there waiting for your cap ship to get your kills for you. Just my 2c.

Someone will always find their way around the system, but the way it is, there is no perfect solution. We need to stop pretending there is (even myself with my 2c suggestion) and be happy that we even get upgrades for a game that was saved by F2P. >>> O hhhhhh, I don't mean to start up this ol' debate <<<

And constantly playing peekaboo with the cap ship cause every scout and gs in a match will do nothing but boost to it immediately is a good thing? It's not an ideal solution, but it's a solution to a problem that was getting out of hand and something needed to be done FAST.

No, but the way to encourage dogfighting is NOT to remove spawn protection. It's like shooting off your foot because you had an itch.

Also, let's make it clear again: if you got killed by a capital ship turret, YOU were the one being stupid because you tunneled someone/didn't use LOS/didn't keep engine pool available, not the person that was using superior situational awareness. It's like complaining that someone was playing peekaboo in the asteroids and you crashed because you played their game and lost, and I am damn tired of seeing that nonsense QQ here.

A problem exists one way or the other. What I think really should have been done would be to turn the capital ships into exhaustion zone. Enemy ships would still die to the cap ship lasers and you couldn't camp there waiting for your cap ship to get your kills for you. Just my 2c.

 

Someone will always find their way around the system, but the way it is, there is no perfect solution. We need to stop pretending there is (even myself with my 2c suggestion) and be happy that we even get upgrades for a game that was saved by F2P. >>> O hhhhhh, I don't mean to start up this ol' debate <<<

Yeah, I made this same suggestion earlier in the thread. Not sure who originally came up with it, but it's the best solution I've seen so far. It would still prevent spawn camping, while also eliminating the whole "run back to the capship to preserve your lead" strategy.

I think it is a really good change. TDM should never have had any turrets. It's all about killing and being killed, not huddling at the capital ship, out of reach of your enemies, and letting some 1-shot turrets do the work for you. Also, the term farming usually applies to killing players over and over in circumstances where doing so is not the main objective, such as players who are farming kills in a warzone instead of playing objectives in ground PVP. In TDM, the main objective is to kill as many enemy players as possible (while avoiding being killed too much), thereby ending the game, so I don't think it can be called "farming".

Typically, capital ships were being used in 2 situations:

1) Occasionally (rarely on my server but I saw it happen once or twice), a gunship-heavy team would set up camp at their own cap ship from the start of the game, and just wait there for the enemy to come to them. They never even tried to come out. This obviously had to be stopped.

2) One team was a lot stronger than the other and the score would get to something like 25-1 in the first 2-3 minutes of the game, then the losing team would just huddle at their capital ship and drag things on for another 10 minutes or more. This type of game was extremely boring and needed to be allowed to end, rather than being artificially stalled by the cap ship turrets. Would you really rather be camped for 10 minutes at your spawn point instead of having the game end fast and getting into a new game, hopefully with more evenly matched teams?

In both cases, there was a really negative interaction with ship class balance and with the inactivity timer. Gunships dominated because they are the only ships that can outrange cap ship turrets, and scouts/strike fighters were either getting marked as inactive for lack of available targets to do damage to, or were forced to make suicide assaults on the turret-protected enemies once a minute to get rid of the timer. This was very poor design. I have been flying mostly strike fighters lately and I am overjoyed by this change. This should restore some balance to the various ship roles in TDM.

As for those who are worried about bombers mining the spawn point, I think this issue will be self-regulating. A few people may try it, but they will be doing themselves a disservice. Sure, they may get a kill or two out of it, then all the enemies will switch to a different spawn point at the other end of the map. The scouts, strike fighters and gunships with barrel roll will be able to relocate there fast enough, but the slow bombers will end up all by themselves away from the new location of the action, and may even get marked as inactive before they manage to get back in range of the fight to contribute. Also, if I ever end up in a game against bombers who do that, I will make sure to tell my team to switch spawns immediately, then I will get in my Pike and go hunt down those bombers and blow them up to bits while they are all on their own in the middle of nowhere.

I think it is a really good change. TDM should never have had any turrets. It's all about killing and being killed, not huddling at the capital ship, out of reach of your enemies, and letting some 1-shot turrets do the work for you. Also, the term farming usually applies to killing players over and over in circumstances where doing so is not the main objective, such as players who are farming kills in a warzone instead of playing objectives in ground PVP. In TDM, the main objective is to kill as many enemy players as possible (while avoiding being killed too much), thereby ending the game, so I don't think it can be called "farming".

 

Typically, capital ships were being used in 2 situations:

 

1) Occasionally (rarely on my server but I saw it happen once or twice), a gunship-heavy team would set up camp at their own cap ship from the start of the game, and just wait there for the enemy to come to them. They never even tried to come out. This obviously had to be stopped.

 

2) One team was a lot stronger than the other and the score would get to something like 25-1 in the first 2-3 minutes of the game, then the losing team would just huddle at their capital ship and drag things on for another 10 minutes or more. This type of game was extremely boring and needed to be allowed to end, rather than being artificially stalled by the cap ship turrets. Would you really rather be camped for 10 minutes at your spawn point instead of having the game end fast and getting into a new game, hopefully with more evenly matched teams?

 

In both cases, there was a really negative interaction with ship class balance and with the inactivity timer. Gunships dominated because they are the only ships that can outrange cap ship turrets, and scouts/strike fighters were either getting marked as inactive for lack of available targets to do damage to, or were forced to make suicide assaults on the turret-protected enemies once a minute to get rid of the timer. This was very poor design. I have been flying mostly strike fighters lately and I am overjoyed by this change. This should restore some balance to the various ship roles in TDM.

 

As for those who are worried about bombers mining the spawn point, I think this issue will be self-regulating. A few people may try it, but they will be doing themselves a disservice. Sure, they may get a kill or two out of it, then all the enemies will switch to a different spawn point at the other end of the map. The scouts, strike fighters and gunships with barrel roll will be able to relocate there fast enough, but the slow bombers will end up all by themselves away from the new location of the action, and may even get marked as inactive before they manage to get back in range of the fight to contribute. Also, if I ever end up in a game against bombers who do that, I will make sure to tell my team to switch spawns immediately, then I will get in my Pike and go hunt down those bombers and blow them up to bits while they are all on their own in the middle of nowhere.

XD so some one getting rolled 25 to 1 is supposed to feel good about them self cause the match ended early? Yeah most of the reaction to this almost submitting my belief this wont be good at all for gsf