I logged in today at 11:45 CST, thinking it would be no big issue to finish up my weekly, in which I needed three wins, and capture my daily at the same time.

Big mistake.

I played in a variety of ways (solo, duo, three people in a group, four in a group) until 4:00pm CST until I won three.

Take this as an observation, not a complaint. That being said, I talked to guildmates and general chat folks today and we came up with the following reasons for the seeming failure of republic warzones:

1. "Natural" pvp'ers (i.e. aggressive players with a bloodlust) gravitate toward the 'anti-establishment' side, aka: The Bad Guys. They have since Day One. They just have it in the blood. It might be said strong 'war time' leadership is more likely, also, to be found in such an environment.

2. Those not falling into the above category on the Sith side have managed to ride this Imperial coattail to the advantage of better gear, more experience of winning (having time to deal with objectives rather than scrambling to stay afloat), and stronger companion forces in general.

3. On Jung Ma, at least, and perhaps on other servers, the "RP" element (closely related to the "Extreme Enjoyment of PVE Element"), which tends to stop and smell flowers, also seems to exist more heavily on the Republic side, which has occasioned a much slower process of leveling, ranking, and gearing.

*It's also been observed in our circles that solo queue-ing tends to be more advantageous than queuing as a group, but this just seems to reinforce my point, as it is widely assumed that "pre-mades" are matched with other pre-mades.

The balance always shifts for both sides in an MMO, and will be influenced throughout play by development changes, folks getting bored with 'easy-mode' who re-roll on the less dominant side, and so on; I am simply curious if anyone else sees the above (or anything I've not mentioned) as characteristics of the 'losing side.'

Personally, I can see it all.

I agree to it all. On my server republic are no threat at all eventhough THEY make premades vs pugs. They are mostly troopers or sages with the 1 button spam dps spec and lose cause outplayed skill and tactic wise.

Its not Sith/imps or BW or any1 fault - its pure crappy pvp players from republic side and it gets kinda boring only to meet competition in huttball vs the same 10-15 guys.

World pvp needs a big big fix if this games pvp section have to stay - for both sides.

On my server "Darth Malak" the republic win more often than the empire.. There are fewer republic players (it is starting to get closer to even though I would say it is like 1:2 ratio atm..)

But there are a lot more hardcore republic pvp guilds because of this.. They like the challenge of being outnumbered, so in efforts to stick it to the larger faction they are more organized.

I play on Jung Ma. I never have an issue getting my wins as Republic - actually I think I win at least 60% percent of my games solo-queuing on the "bad" days and around 90% with guild premades.

Best way is to find some like minded people who are into PVP and queue together.

in my personal experience from WoW and SWTOR. The evil side gets a whole bunch of the "better than average" players and a fair amount of "elite" players while the good guy side gets slightly more "elite players" and then a whole lot of "sub par" players.

Which in the end (again from just my personal experience) leads to

pug vs pug evil side usually wins

premade vs premade slight favor to good guys

So what you're saying is: Players that are better at PvP, and play more PvP to get more PvP gear (in a game that's based around PvP gear....do better in PvP?

There should never be an automatic right to winning.

If you want to win more, learn your character and get better at it, get some friends together and learn to play as a team, then queue together. That's all your Empire counterparts are doing.

On my server we win more as Republic than as Empire. The 'losing side' is server specific. Without rated warzones, it's just RNG based luck on who has the premade.

That being said, I think the PvP quest system should be changed to matches played rather than won. 6/day 40/week or something. But should also only grant credit for a minimum level of contribution (which would be invisible to the player) to ensure everyone actually plays rather than the afk fest we currently have.

@ the OP: you really do see it from an unbiased, truthful perspective. Having both an imp and rebel 50, it is incredible the discrepancies between the two, and I think you nailed it right on the head. Natural PvPers (people who are made to fight well, competitively), tend to gravitiate towards the darker side of things. I think this is a natural, psychological occurance, but something worth noting in these regaurds.

I can't say much from experience about RPers, having never really played on an RP server, but I do understand that the rebel RPers are not about fighting. They are about peace and understanding, which is not a PvP concept, whereas RP imps are ALL about destruction and devestation, making for an unbalanced perspective from the get go.

Oddly enough, this also occurred in WoW, where the horde generally had the better pvpers for the first couple of eras that WoW went through... However, towards the end, when things began to even out, and people began to realize it made no difference what side you were on, PvP became much more balanced and enjoyable.

My only concern is whether or not this game has the ability to carry PvP to this length, or if it will die slowly before that point has been reached....

Either way, a well written post by the OP, and I commend it with +1 internets/mmos.

On my server it really does vary but generally most days between 6-8 GMT Republic will seem to win more than 50% of Warzones. Other times such as last night between 8-10 Imps were winning everything. There were simply not enough experienced Reps to compete. This shows the time you play will have a big effect.

I really think two other things are happening here. One, each server is different and you can get unlucky or lucky in your faction allies and/or faction enemies. Two, most important, is this MYTH that seems to have appeared that the Imperials win so much more in PVP. It's like so many Republic players have lost the battle before its even begun.

Edit: Is this Myth based on Republic players playing the "good guys" getting more raged when they don't win (as the good guys nearly always win right?) and the Imps can take a defeat better? I just don't know. Also, I play Republic.

So what you're saying is: Players that are better at PvP, and play more PvP to get more PvP gear (in a game that's based around PvP gear....do better in PvP?

 

There should never be an automatic right to winning.

 

If you want to win more, learn your character and get better at it, get some friends together and learn to play as a team, then queue together. That's all your Empire counterparts are doing.

 

On my server we win more as Republic than as Empire. The 'losing side' is server specific. Without rated warzones, it's just RNG based luck on who has the premade.

 

 

 

That being said, I think the PvP quest system should be changed to matches played rather than won. 6/day 40/week or something. But should also only grant credit for a minimum level of contribution (which would be invisible to the player) to ensure everyone actually plays rather than the afk fest we currently have.

You missed the entire point of his post. I think you should go back and read what the OP said, and then read what you wrote. You might notice a complete disconnect.

I think the observation will vary, to be honest I know more PvP players went Rep, simply cause they knew a lot of kids would go Imp.

On Helm or Graush I would say I win a lot more WZs than lose, but that stat goes out the window wit Hutball where Rep players seem to struggle a lot more with that, but then again we all think the CC is broken in favour of Imp!

You missed the entire point of his post. I think you should go back and read what the OP said, and then read what you wrote. You might notice a complete disconnect.

Nothing missed. He is assuming there is a skill discrepancy based on skill and the mind frames of certain types of player. He says it's an observation rather than a complaint, I don't think this is the case.

You will probably find for every player that thinks they're on a losing imbalanced faction when they lose the majority of WZ, that there is another player on their faction that is having the opposite experience. Granted my 50 experience is from one server it's quite apparent it's RNG and nothing else.

The PvP type wants good fights, not easy fights, as such it's often best to avoid imbalance issues. All of the PvP guilds I know (Freddyshouse EU forums, 10-15 active PvP guilds from DAoC) were fairly evenly split between faction. Sith being 'evil' has very little to do with what a PvPer wants.

I disagree with your assumption that all pvp minded players play on imp. I know a lot of bloodthirsty bastards who pvp in The Twin Spears's Republic

This is my point.

People always look for faction or class imbalances, before they consider the possibility that it may just be bad luck, or that they alone might be the main factor in their success.

Maybe you should step up your game and stop making excuses?

On The Ravager we tear **** apart all the time. Even with PuGs I win more than lose.

Nothing missed. He is assuming there is a skill discrepancy based on skill and the mind frames of certain types of player. He says it's an observation rather than a complaint, I don't think this is the case.

 

You will probably find for every player that thinks they're on a losing imbalanced faction when they lose the majority of WZ, that there is another player on their faction that is having the opposite experience. Granted my 50 experience is from one server it's quite apparent it's RNG and nothing else.

 

The PvP type wants good fights, not easy fights, as such it's often best to avoid imbalance issues. All of the PvP guilds I know (Freddyshouse EU forums, 10-15 active PvP guilds from DAoC) were fairly evenly split between faction. Sith being 'evil' has very little to do with what a PvPer wants.

I have to say, I went back and re-read everything that had been posted, and I retract my statement. You truly did address his point properly. I've been busy ranting on these forums lately, and I think that may have gotten the best of me...

I don't think the skill discrepancy is the only thing he's approaching though... Maybe this is just what I've found from the two different servers (one pve and one pvp) I've played on, but the imperials seem to be much more focused on the objective portion of the game: Hardmode completion, NM Ops, PVP ranking, and the likes, wheras the republic side seems to be more focused on the pure enjoyment of the game and all of it's facets; different FPs, the amazing amount of storyline associated with different classes, etc.

This is where I feel the psychological disconnect occurs, at least in the current state of this developing game. I feel that, at least on a basic level, those who chose imperial from the get go are of the more competitive nature.

So where am I getting from this? Purely the faction imbalances that have been strongly noticed amongst servers recently, not the talent of the PvPers on either faction side. Although I do feel that on average you will find a higher level of PvPer on imperial side than on Republic due purely to the reason of greater numbers. I think the faction numbers support this, aside from the outside cases of servers in which Republic outnumbers Imperials. Generally though, on PvP servers, imps are greater in numbers, leading to a larger pool of possible good PvPers.

I feel I overstepped my bounds in my previous assumption about your posting, so I want to reopen the floor up to the discussion of this issue, but I really feel the OP has a solid point in that the psychology that goes into choosing what side you best associate with has a large part to do with how you perform in a PvP setting.

Several weeks ago I had a hard time getting the Dailies done,

But now usually 6 warzones I will have 3-4 wins. (Blasted sith vanish exploiting the alderon terminals)

This is on Jung Ma.

On my server "Darth Malak" the republic win more often than the empire.. There are fewer republic players (it is starting to get closer to even though I would say it is like 1:2 ratio atm..)

 

But there are a lot more hardcore republic pvp guilds because of this.. They like the challenge of being outnumbered, so in efforts to stick it to the larger faction they are more organized.

Also on Darth Malak and its still close to 4 to 1 not even close to your numbers, check both sides at prime time, and Imps still win a good bit but repubs got a good amount of premades also...

I have to say, I went back and re-read everything that had been posted, and I retract my statement. You truly did address his point properly. I've been busy ranting on these forums lately, and I think that may have gotten the best of me...

 

I don't think the skill discrepancy is the only thing he's approaching though... Maybe this is just what I've found from the two different servers (one pve and one pvp) I've played on, but the imperials seem to be much more focused on the objective portion of the game: Hardmode completion, NM Ops, PVP ranking, and the likes, wheras the republic side seems to be more focused on the pure enjoyment of the game and all of it's facets; different FPs, the amazing amount of storyline associated with different classes, etc.

 

This is where I feel the psychological disconnect occurs, at least in the current state of this developing game. I feel that, at least on a basic level, those who chose imperial from the get go are of the more competitive nature.

 

So where am I getting from this? Purely the faction imbalances that have been strongly noticed amongst servers recently, not the talent of the PvPers on either faction side. Although I do feel that on average you will find a higher level of PvPer on imperial side than on Republic due purely to the reason of greater numbers. I think the faction numbers support this, aside from the outside cases of servers in which Republic outnumbers Imperials. Generally though, on PvP servers, imps are greater in numbers, leading to a larger pool of possible good PvPers.

 

I feel I overstepped my bounds in my previous assumption about your posting, so I want to reopen the floor up to the discussion of this issue, but I really feel the OP has a solid point in that the psychology that goes into choosing what side you best associate with has a large part to do with how you perform in a PvP setting.

I should have reworded my initial post tbh.

While I do agree with you to an extent, I think the people that chose the anti establishment side (Empire, Horde, Vanu in Planetside, Midgard in DAoC etc), tend to be the younger people rather than PvPers, which accounts for a large number of gamers nowadays (especially with Starwars IP). While the avid PvPers who have been doing this since UO/Everquest/AC are all in our late 20s/30s now, so 'coolness' isn't something we really take into consideration any more.

I think there is a clear numbers disparity on some servers, but I put this down to age (especially due to the more recent Starwars films appealing to kids, Starwars is cool again) rather than PvP ability. I feel PvP ability is split fairly even at the moment, though I suppose this will really become apparent when they introduce rated Warzones.

Personally, PvP is all I've ever done in online games (since UO), and I went with Republic initially. My guild chose Empire so I moved there. Now we play both pretty equally.

So where am I getting from this? Purely the faction imbalances that have been strongly noticed amongst servers recently, not the talent of the PvPers on either faction side. Although I do feel that on average you will find a higher level of PvPer on imperial side than on Republic due purely to the reason of greater numbers. I think the faction numbers support this, aside from the outside cases of servers in which Republic outnumbers Imperials. Generally though, on PvP servers, imps are greater in numbers, leading to a larger pool of possible good PvPers.

 

I agree with you on Larger pool of players leads to a larger pool of possible good players. However, I think perhaps this works both ways in that it also leads to a larger pool of possible bad or average players. Would conclude these somewhat knock each other out keeping things rather random and unpredictable.

On my server "Darth Malak" the republic win more often than the empire.. There are fewer republic players (it is starting to get closer to even though I would say it is like 1:2 ratio atm..)

 

But there are a lot more hardcore republic pvp guilds because of this.. They like the challenge of being outnumbered, so in efforts to stick it to the larger faction they are more organized.

Also on Darth Malak and its still close to 4 to 1 not even close to your numbers, check both sides at prime time, and Imps still win a good bit but repubs got a good amount of premades also...

I play on Jung Ma. I never have an issue getting my wins as Republic - actually I think I win at least 60% percent of my games solo-queuing on the "bad" days and around 90% with guild premades.

 

Best way is to find some like minded people who are into PVP and queue together.

I long for the day when we can queue with eight.

Nothing missed. He is assuming there is a skill discrepancy based on skill and the mind frames of certain types of player. He says it's an observation rather than a complaint, I don't think this is the case.

 

You will probably find for every player that thinks they're on a losing imbalanced faction when they lose the majority of WZ, that there is another player on their faction that is having the opposite experience. Granted my 50 experience is from one server it's quite apparent it's RNG and nothing else.

 

The PvP type wants good fights, not easy fights, as such it's often best to avoid imbalance issues. All of the PvP guilds I know (Freddyshouse EU forums, 10-15 active PvP guilds from DAoC) were fairly evenly split between faction. Sith being 'evil' has very little to do with what a PvPer wants.

SHE was genuinely just looking to see if other people out there had made similar observations about the differences I mentioned regarding the two factions. I find it interesting to hear that the imbalance is different across servers, but I honestly wonder if the Republic side dominating is a rarer occurrence (again, for the reasons I suggested). Hadn't actually thought about the actual numbers, because I was thinking of warzones, where it's fixed, not Ilum. Numbers mean a lot less when half of them are bad players that turn and run when pushed.

Clearly, better gear, better play, and knowing your character in a PVP environment produces wins... that wasn't in question.

I play on Jung Ma, and I can tell you that Republic wins a lot. I might even go so far as to say that the Republic wins more WZ matches than the Imperials, though I might feel it a little more, being a solo-queuer. Try to queue with a premade when you can. If that's not working, try to solo queue so that maybe you can tag along with one of the other guilds who are more successful with their premades. I don't mean to disparage your guild, but if you are running premades and losing a lot, you should be seeing some red flags. And if you're not running premades and losing a lot, start poking your guildies to get them to queue up with you. :]

You Pubs even seem to have more PvP guilds on your side than we do. Hell, you guys were even beating us in Ilum for a while last night.

After being generally dominated for the first month of the game, yesterday the Republic side crushed the Imperials so handily and consistently that they stopped queueing and we were able to play Republic on Republic Huttball.

Stop whining about "player types" being on one side or the other. Get better. You can win.