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[Guide/Theorycrafting] Jedi Shadow Tanking!


MercArcher

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***PLEASE FLAG FOR STICKY***

 

UPDATE IN PROGRESS

 

Updated 12-14-11

 

Table of Contents

 

I: Introduction

II: Talents

III: Rotation

IV: Skills

V: Energy Management

VI: Gearing

VII: Consumables

 

I: Introduction

 

Welcome to the in depth guide for Jedi Shadow tanking in Star Wars: The Old Republic. This guide will equip you with the basics of tanking with a Jedi Shadow as well as provide advanced discussion into various aspects of tanking.

 

II: Talents

 

Single target/Raid tanking spec

 

This is your primary tanking spec. You go all the way up to slow time to gain it as a debuff. There are a few points that will need extensive testing once the game launches, however this will be the basic format of our spec. The points in questing revolve around Mental Fortitude, Rapid Recovery, Applied Force, and Expertise

 

AoE/Add tanking spec

 

On this spec we give up both Slow Time and Telekinetic Throw to gain Force in Balance and free Mind Crush procs. Force in Balance is a great move for AoE threat, as well as providing meaningful self healing when tanking multiple targets, while Mind Crush becomes an impressive single target nuke and DoT.

 

 

III: Rotation

 

Shadows are both a cooldown and a proc based tanking class leading to a priority list for skills rather than an actual rotation. This rotation includes watching buffs, debuffs, procs, and cooldowns leading to a complicated priority list.

 

Single Target

 

Priority (31/0/10)

 

1) Kinetic Ward with no current charges up – Kinetic Ward is off the GCD.

2) Force Breach if debuff is not applied or debuff time < 1.5 sec

3) Slow Time if debuff is not applied or debuff time < 1.5 sec

4) Telekinetic Throw with 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows

5) Project if Particle Acceleration is up

6) Double Strike

7) Saber Strike if you are out of energy, or need energy to refresh an upcoming debuff

 

 

Priority (25/0/16)

 

1) Kinetic Ward with no current charges up – Kinetic Ward is off the GCD.

2) Force Breach if debuff is not applied or debuff time < 1.5 sec

3) Project if Particle Acceleration is up

4) Mind Crush if DoT is not applied

5) Double Strike

6) Saber Strike if you are out of energy, or need energy to refresh an upcoming debuff

 

 

AoE

 

 

Priority (31/0/10)

 

1) Kinetic Ward with no current charges up – Kinetic Ward is off the GCD.

2) Slow Time

3) Force Breach

4) Whirling Blow

5) Saber Strike if you are out of energy

 

 

Priority (25/0/16)

 

1) Kinetic Ward with no current charges up – Kinetic Ward is off the GCD.

2) Force in Balance

3) Force Breach

4) Whirling Blow

5) Mind Crush if you are out of energy

6) Saber Strike if you are out of energy

 

 

IV: Skills

 

Kinetic Ward – 10 Force – Off GCD – This ability is our sustainable defensive cooldown, It has a maximum uptime of 8 blocks or 20 seconds whichever comes first and a cooldown of 12 seconds. You should maintain the highest uptime possible on this buff refreshing it as soon as possible when the charges or timer expires without wasting current charges in your refreshing of it.

 

Slow Time – 30 Force – This ability is mainly used to apply its debuff or generate snap threat. You won’t have the force to constantly use this ability on cooldown, however you will need to use it to maintain the debuff of -5% damage done. This can be used on cooldown if threat is an issue or if the pull is AoE.

 

Force Breach – 20 Force – This ability is similar to Slow Time as you will be using it to maintain its debuff of -5% chance to hit, however this ability does not cause a high amount of threat like Slow Time and should not be spammed for threat or damage. You will want to refresh this debuff at the last possible second (< 1.5 sec left on timer).

 

Telekinetic Throw – 30 Force – This ability is ONLY used with 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows. It is a channeled spell which does its damage over 3 seconds. You CAN defend attacks while channeling so that is a non issue. This also provides a self heal of 12% of your max health over its duration. A note, you will gain force over the channeling time, so do not use this ability above 93 force.

 

Project – 39 Force – Project will be our heavy hitting ability. It will auto crit with 50% extra damage due to Particle Acceleration, and should only be used when particle acceleration is up.

 

Double Strike – 22 Force – This is how we proc our Particle Acceleration to get those heavy Project hits. You will want to use this ability when everything else is on cooldown/debuffs are up. However you must take into account the force you will need to refresh the other debuffs once they need refreshed and not overuse your force pool.

 

Saber Strike – Free – This is our filler skill, it costs no force and does 3 attacks with our weapon dealing weapon damage. This can proc our technique.

 

Mind Crust - Free(with proc) - This is will not be used by the 31/0/10 spec as it has a 2 second cast timer and provides no real benefit, however this will be used in the 25/0/16 build with Force Strike procs as a free instant cast nuke.

 

Force in Balance - 25 Force - Good go to skill for the 25/0/16 build that provides some self healing

 

Whirling Blow - 40 Force - AoE basic attack, high force usage, so don't expect to spam this.

 

Mind Snap - Free - off GCD - Interrupts casting of you're target.

 

Combat Technique - Free - This is the technique you will be tanking in, you gain extra armor, extra threat, we also gain 9% internal/elemental resistance and the ability to use abilities such as guard.

 

Force Pull - Free - This is a pulling skill or gap closing skill for weaker enemies. It will pull your target to you, but will not work on bosses. It also generates a high amount of threat so it might have uses in boss fights.

 

Guard - Free - Target takes 5% less damage, and generates 25% less threat. has a maximum range of 15m so you will most likely keep this on a melee DPS in raids. If the target does go out of range the buff will stay, but will do nothing till they get within range.

 

Mind Control - Free - Off GCD - 6 second single target taunt.

 

Mass Mind Control - Free - Off GCD - 1 second AoE taunt.

 

Battle Readiness - Free - Off GCD - 10% self heal and 300% increase of combat techniques self heal

 

Deflection - Free - Off GCD - 50% increase melee and ranged defense for 12 seconds. An extremely useful avoidance cooldown.

 

Force Cloak - Free - Complete agro drop. Has possible uses, but be careful. 10 seconds of no healing if used.

 

Force of Will - Free - off GCD - Removes all incapacitating and movement impairing effects

 

Force Potency - Free - Off GCD - 60% increased crit chance on 2 spells. makes Telekinetic Throw a 30 yard range. You will want to use this ability when you can cast 2 projects in a row making project an auto crit with particle acceleration doing 50% extra damage.

 

Force Speed - Free - 150% increased movement speed for 2 seconds. Great for movement fights.

 

Resilience - Free - Off GCD - Removes all debuffs and grants 100% force and tech resistance for 5 seconds. Can be used proactively to prevent damage or retroactively to remove debuffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

V: Energy Management

 

I’m going to be quoting a post from this thread as it goes in depth as to our energy situation. Thank you Kitru for you’re contributions!

 

Here's some Force consumption maths to consider.

 

With One with the Force, default Force Regen is 10.4 Force/second regen. With Combat Technique and Double-bladed Saber Defense, you get 2 Force back with every shield, parry, or deflect once every second. Assuming a 77% chance to do so (10% base dodge + 5% base block + 15% Combat Technique block + 15% Kinetic Ward + 2% Shadowsight + 4% Double-bladed Saber Defense + 5% Force Breach debuff + 6% combination (assuming a minimum of gear contribution) + 15% shield item bonus chance) and 1 attack per GCD, you can expect a further ~1 Force/sec, for a total of 11.4 Force/sec.

 

Based upon the use paradigm for each ability, we can determine what the average cost over time of using these abilities in such a way will be. As such, I will be defining the use paradigm of each ability in terms of how often it will be used (with explanations given in parenthesis), the percentage of your activation time will be consumed with this use paradigm (this number will deviate from reality to some extent since not all abilities have use ratios that perfectly sync with one another), and, based on the Force cost, what the average Force consumption for using such an ability in such a way will be. I will be assuming an overlap of a single GCD for debuffs in order to prevent any losses of the debuff.

 

Force Breach (maintain 18 second debuff):

1 every 16.5 seconds ; 20 Force; 9.1% activation use; -1.21 Force/sec

Kinetic Ward (recast immediately when debuff falls off (every 8 shield successes or 20 seconds); with a 50% block chance (5% base, 15% shield, 15% CT, 15% KW), 36.5% of attacks will be blocked rather than dodged or hit; assuming 1 attack every GCD, 8 shield successes will take 32 seconds):

1 every 20 seconds; 10 Force; 0% activation use; -.50 Force/sec

Alternate Kinetic Ward (recast on cooldown):

1 every 12 seconds; 10 Force; 0% activation time; -.83 Force/sec

(Heavy) Slow Time (recast on CD):

1 every 7.5 seconds; 30 Force; 20% activation time; -4.00 Force/sec

(Easy) Slow Time (maintain 15 second debuff):

1 every 13.5 seconds; 30 Force; 11.1% activation time; -2.22 Force/sec

(Heavy TK) Double Strike (to trigger Particle Acceleration for Project crits for Harnessed Shadows stacks; assuming 21 second TK Throw cycle)

3 every 21 seconds (3 iterations of 1 every 6 seconds with 3 second wait after (for TK Throw)); 23 Force; 21.5% activation time; -3.29 Force/sec

(Easy TK) Double Strike (to trigger Particle Acceleration for Project crits for Harnessed Shadows stacks; assuming 30 second TK Throw cycle)

3 every 30 seconds (3 iterations of 1 every 9 seconds with 3 second wait after (for TK Throw)); 23 Force, 15% activation time; -2.30 Force/sec

(Heavy TK) Project (with Particle Acceleration to trigger Harnessed Shadows and Force Synergy; assuming 21 second TK Throw cycle):

3 every 21 seconds(3 iterations of 1 every 6 seconds with 3 second wait after (for TK Throw)); 39 Force; 21.5% activation time; -5.57 Force/sec

(Easy TK) Project (with Particle Acceleration to trigger Harnessed Shadows and Force Synergy; assuming 30 second TK Throw cycle):

3 every 30 seconds(3 iterations of 1 every 9 seconds with 3 second wait after (for TK Throw)); 39 Force; 15% activation time; -3.90 Force/sec

(Heavy) Telekinetic Throw (every 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows; assuming 21 second TK Throw cycle):

1 every 21 seconds; 30 Force; 14.3% activation time; 30 Force; -1.43 Force/sec

(Easy) Telekinetic Throw (every 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows; assuming 30 second TK Throw cycle):

1 every 30 seconds; 30 Force; 10% activation time; 30 Force; -1.00 Force/sec

 

To determine consumption, the appropriate use paradigms must be chosen. Slow Time will either be used on CD (higher threat, higher cost) or to maintain the debuff (lower threat, lower cost). Telekinetic Throw should be used, on average, either once every 21 seconds or once every 30 seconds (it can be used faster than this thanks to PA procs removing the Project CD, but, since I'm assuming average values, the standard recharge on Project seem appropriate to signify use of other, high priority abilities). All in all, this gives us 4 overall use paradigms (Heavy Slow Time + Heavy Telekinetic Throw; Heavy ST + Easy TK; Easy ST + Heavy TK; Easy ST + Easy TK). Kinetic Ward's 2 use paradigms are based on differing assumptions of blocks over time; the disparity between the two will be reflected in a range of net loss. Sustainability is determined by dividing the 100 starting Force by a net loss to determine how long the use paradigms could be maintained (this does not take any lack of Force at any specific time into consideration, so the number is likely to be substantially lower given the high costs of some abilities (re: Project))

 

Heavy/Heavy:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 86.4% (9.1 + 0 + 20 + 21.5 + 21.5 + 14.3)

Total Consumption: 16-16.33 Force/sec(1.21 + (.5 or .83) + 4.0 + 3.29 + 5.57 + 1.43)

Net Loss: -4.6 to 4.93 Force/sec

Sustainability: 21.74 to 20.28 seconds

 

Heavy/Easy:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 69.1% (9.1 + 0 + 20 + 15 + 15 + 10)

Total Consumption: 12.91-13.24 Force/sec (1.21 + (.5 or .83) + 4.0 + 2.3 + 3.9 + 1)

Net Loss: -1.51 to 1.84 Force/sec

Sustainability: 66.23 to 54.35 seconds

 

Easy/Heavy:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 77.5% (9.1 + 0 + 11.1 + 21.5 + 21.5 + 14.3)

Total Consumption: 14.22-14.55 Force/sec (1.21 + (.5 or .83) + 2.22 + 3.29 + 5.57 + 1.43)

Net Loss: 2.82 to 3.15 Force/sec

Sustainability: 35.46 to 31.75 seconds

 

Easy/Easy:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 60.2% (9.1 + 0 + 11.1 + 15 + 15 +10)

Total Consumption: 11.13-11.46 Force/sec (1.21 + (.5 or .83) + 2.22 + 2.3 + 3.9 + 1)

Net Loss: +.27 (gain) or -.06 Force/sec

Sustainability: Indefinite or 27.78 minutes (1666.67 seconds)

 

Overall, the conclusions to be drawn are relatively simple: the only use paradigm that is going to be appreciably useful for long fights without designated rest periods is going to be the easy/easy, wherein abilities are only used to maintain whatever buffs they provide. It should be possible to start with heavy/heavy at the beginning of a fight in order to quickly build threat over DPS and healers and then transfer into an easy/easy paradigm once threat has been established.

 

 

VIGearing - WIP

 

Some notes about shadow gearing.

 

170% bonus from armor giving us 270% armor contribution

7% damage reduction

3% bonus stamina

6% bonus defense

19% bonus resist (elemental and internal)

30% bonus shield chance

4% bonus shield absorb

5% enemy miss chance

50% bonus threat generation

Base Parry - 10% (Melee)

Base Deflect - 10% (Ranged)

Force Regen rate - 8/sec base, 10.3/sec talented, 12.3/sec with procs

 

 

Stat Scaling

10 armor = 27 armor

1 endurance = 10 hp

100 endurance = 3 hp regen

10 defense = 1% deflect and parry (no DR seen yet)

4 Shield Absorption = 3%

232 accuracy = 100% hit

 

 

Work in Progress. Will update after more testing.

 

 

 

VII: Consumables - WIP

Rakata Fortitude Stim - 136 Endurance 56 Defense for 2 hours

This stim will give us 1400 HP and 5.6% deflect and parry if talented %defense is static, 5.9% if it adjusts your stats.

 

Rakata Absorb Adrenal - 1725 armor for 15 seconds, 3 min CD

This potion will give 4657 armor if adjusted by % armor increase providing a rough 30% increase to survivability. If it stays 1725 armor it is a rough 14% increase to survivability. Either way prepare to use a lot of these adrenals.

 

Rakata Medpac - Restores 5050 to 6175 health and an additional 2245 health over 15 seconds.

If this shares a cooldown with the Absorb Adrenal it won't see much use, if not this provides some nice burst healing in a pinch.

Edited by MercArcher
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Here's some Force consumption maths to consider.

 

With One with the Force, default Force Regen is 10.4 Force/second regen. With Combat Technique and Double-bladed Saber Defense, you get 2 Force back with every shield, parry, or deflect once every second. Assuming a 65% chance to do so (30% Defense chance with 50% shield Chance) and 1 attack per second (multiattacks count as multiple attacks), you can expect a further ~1.3 Force/sec, for a total of 11.7 Force/sec.

 

Based upon the use paradigm for each ability, we can determine what the average cost over time of using these abilities in such a way will be. As such, I will be defining the use paradigm of each ability in terms of how often it will be used (with explanations given in parenthesis), the percentage of your activation time will be consumed with this use paradigm (this number will deviate from reality to some extent since not all abilities have use ratios that perfectly sync with one another), and, based on the Force cost, what the average Force consumption for using such an ability in such a way will be. I will be assuming an overlap of a single GCD for debuffs in order to prevent any losses of the debuff. Since DS use exists largely to proc PA, the number of uses is designed to demonstrate the average number of uses required to get a PA proc as determined by the limit of the sum of .5^n as from 0 to infinity as n approaches infinity (which equals 2).

 

Force Breach (maintain 18 second debuff):

1 every 16.5 seconds ; 20 Force; 9.1% activation use; -1.21 Force/sec

Kinetic Ward (recast immediately when debuff falls off (every 8 shield successes or 20 seconds); with a 50% block chance (5% base, 15% shield, 15% CT, 15% KW), 36.5% of attacks will be blocked rather than dodged or hit; assuming 1 attack every GCD, 8 shield successes will take 32 seconds):

1 every 20 seconds; 10 Force; 0% activation use; -.50 Force/sec

Alternate Kinetic Ward (recast on cooldown):

1 every 12 seconds; 10 Force; 0% activation time; -.83 Force/sec

(Heavy) Slow Time (recast on CD):

1 every 7.5 seconds; 30 Force; 20% activation time; -4.00 Force/sec

(Easy) Slow Time (maintain 15 second debuff):

1 every 13.5 seconds; 30 Force; 11.1% activation time; -2.22 Force/sec

(Heavy TK) Double Strike (to trigger Particle Acceleration for Project crits for Harnessed Shadows stacks; assuming 21 second TK Throw cycle)

3 every 21 seconds (3 iterations of 2 every 6 seconds with 3 second wait after (for TK Throw)); 23 Force; 43% activation time; -6.58 Force/sec

(Easy TK) Double Strike (to trigger Particle Acceleration for Project crits for Harnessed Shadows stacks; assuming 30 second TK Throw cycle)

3 every 30 seconds (3 iterations of 2 every 9 seconds with 3 second wait after (for TK Throw)); 23 Force, 30% activation time; -4.60 Force/sec

(Heavy TK) Project (with Particle Acceleration to trigger Harnessed Shadows and Force Synergy; assuming 21 second TK Throw cycle):

3 every 21 seconds(3 iterations of 1 every 6 seconds with 3 second wait after (for TK Throw)); 39 Force; 21.5% activation time; -5.57 Force/sec

(Easy TK) Project (with Particle Acceleration to trigger Harnessed Shadows and Force Synergy; assuming 30 second TK Throw cycle):

3 every 30 seconds(3 iterations of 1 every 9 seconds with 3 second wait after (for TK Throw)); 39 Force; 15% activation time; -3.90 Force/sec

(Heavy) Telekinetic Throw (every 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows; assuming 21 second TK Throw cycle):

1 every 21 seconds; 30 Force; 14.3% activation time; 30 Force; -1.43 Force/sec

(Easy) Telekinetic Throw (every 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows; assuming 30 second TK Throw cycle):

1 every 30 seconds; 30 Force; 10% activation time; 30 Force; -1.00 Force/sec

 

To determine consumption, the appropriate use paradigms must be chosen. Slow Time will either be used on CD (higher threat, higher cost) or to maintain the debuff (lower threat, lower cost). Telekinetic Throw should be used, on average, either once every 21 seconds or once every 30 seconds (it can be used faster than this thanks to PA procs removing the Project CD, but, since I'm assuming average values, the standard recharge on Project seem appropriate to signify use of other, high priority abilities). All in all, this gives us 4 overall use paradigms (Heavy Slow Time + Heavy Telekinetic Throw; Heavy ST + Easy TK; Easy ST + Heavy TK; Easy ST + Easy TK). Kinetic Ward's 2 use paradigms are based on differing assumptions of blocks over time; the disparity between the two will be reflected in a range of net loss. Sustainability is determined by dividing the 100 starting Force by a net loss to determine how long the use paradigms could be maintained (this does not take any lack of Force at any specific time into consideration, so the number is likely to be substantially lower given the high costs of some abilities (re: Project))

 

Heavy/Heavy:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 107.9% (9.1 + 0 + 20 + 43 + 21.5 + 14.3)

107.9% animation time = not possible

 

Heavy/Easy:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 84.1% (9.1 + 0 + 20 + 30 + 15 + 10)

Total Consumption: 15.21-15.54 Force/sec (1.21 + (.5 or .83) + 4.0 + 4.6 + 3.9 + 1)

Net Loss: 3.51 to 3.84 Force/sec

Sustainability: 28.49 to 26.04 seconds

 

Easy/Heavy:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 99% (9.1 + 0 + 11.1 + 43 + 21.5 + 14.3)

Total Consumption: 17.51-17.84 Force/sec (1.21 + (.5 or .83) + 2.22 + 6.58 + 5.57 + 1.43)

Net Loss: 6.14 to 6.47 Force/sec

Sustainability: 16.29 to 15.46 seconds

 

Easy/Easy:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 75.2% (9.1 + 0 + 11.1 + 30 + 15 +10)

Total Consumption: 13.43-13.76 Force/sec (1.21 + (.5 or .83) + 2.22 + 4.6 + 3.9 + 1)

Net Loss: 1.73 to 2.06 Force/sec

Sustainability: 57.80 to 48.54 seconds

 

Overall the conclusion to be drawn is that none of the paradigms are infinitely sustainable. Without lucky PA procs, the Heavy/Heavy paradigm is actually impossible and not even the Easy/Easy Paradigm is actually entirely sustainable for long fights. Because of this I have designed the "sustainable" paradigm, which uses the easy Slow Time use paradigm coupled with a 6 second additional wait period (for additional Saber Strikes) added to the Easy TK Throw paradigm.

 

(Sustainable) Double Strike (to trigger Particle Acceleration for Project crits for Harnessed Shadows stacks; assuming 33 second TK Throw cycle)

3 every 36 seconds (3 iterations of 2 every 9 seconds with 6 second wait after (for TK Throw and Saber Strikes)); 23 Force, 25% activation time; -3.83 Force/sec

(Sustainable) Project (with Particle Acceleration to trigger Harnessed Shadows and Force Synergy; assuming 36 second TK Throw cycle):

3 every 36 seconds(3 iterations of 1 every 9 seconds with 6 second wait after (for TK Throw and Saber Strikes)); 39 Force; 12.5% activation time; -3.25 Force/sec

(Sustainable) Telekinetic Throw (every 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows; assuming 36 second TK Throw cycle):

1 every 36 seconds; 30 Force; 8.3% activation time; 30 Force; -.83 Force/sec

 

Sustainable:

Non-Saber Strike animation use: 66% (9.1 + 0 + 11.1 + 25 + 12.5 + 8.3)

Total Consumption: 11.84-12.17 Force/sec (1.21 + (.5 or .83) + 2.22 + 3.83 + 3.25 + .83)

Net Loss: .14 Force/sec to .47 Force/sec

Sustainability: 714.3 (11.9) to 212.8 (3.55) seconds (minutes)

Edited by Kitru
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According to the tooltip, Guard's damage sharing is pvp only; unsure if it works in pvp.

 

For the beta weekend, it only split damage for damage from players. This makes sense when you consider that the 25% threat reduction does nothing in PvP, so, in order for the ability to see appreciable use, it would need some additional PvP-only functionality.

 

Something I haven't seen addressed: is Project an every cooldown priority, or only when Partcle Accel is up?

 

Project costs too much Force to be constantly spammed. Without Particle Acceleration, it deals about as much damage as Double Strike, but at almost twice the cost. However, spamming DS>Project constantly is similarly inefficient thanks to high Force costs. It is best to only use DS>Project in order to generate Harnessed Shadows stacks so that you can use Telekinetic Throw at negligible cost for similar damage and increased survivability.

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Here's some Force consumption maths to consider.

 

With One with the Force, default Force Regen is 10.4 Force/second regen. With Combat Technique and Double-bladed Saber Defense, you get 2 Force back with every shield, parry, or deflect once every second. Assuming a 77% chance to do so (10% base dodge + 5% base block + 15% Combat Technique block + 15% Kinetic Ward + 2% Shadowsight + 4% Double-bladed Saber Defense + 5% Force Breach debuff + 6% combination (assuming a minimum of gear contribution) + 15% shield item bonus chance) and 1 attack per GCD, you can expect a further ~1 Force/sec, for a total of 11.4 Force/sec.

 

How should I put it?

 

Your logic it not entirely correct as you don't take into account probability theory and doing wrong classification.

First of all you can block OR evade OR parry. Most likely game mechanic would rank it as

Evade if failed Parry if failed Block simply because every character can evade and some can parry and very few can block. And in this case evade/dodge doesn't do anything for you. Force regeneration is triggered only when you block or parry.

 

So your simply unrealistic number of 77% will become X% to block Y% to parry and Z% to dodge.

 

Just to make it easier let's say you have 30% chance to dodge, 30% chance to block and 30% chance to parry. It doesn't mean that you have 90% chance to avoid damage through block/parry/evade. Following your logic you'll get 1.8 force per second when hit continuously.

 

First test is if you evaded or not and since in out case we don't benefit from evading we have only 70% chance to get to 2 options that matter to us or in other words we have 70% chance to fail dodging the attack.

Then we have 30% chance to parry but real chance to get to parry is chance to fail dodge multiplied by chance to parry so it's 0.70 * 0.30 and it's only 0.21 or 21%

Then we get to block and to get there we need to fail to evade and parry and only then we have 30% to block. So in numerical form it's 0.70 * 0.70 * 0.30 = 0.147 or 14.7%

and now we just sum them and get to 14.7 + 21 = 35.7% to trigger the effect you want.

 

90% in your dream and 35.7% in reality. Now get this realistic chance and apply it to the bonus: 2% of Max Force = 2; 2 * 35.7% = 0.714 force per second in average if attacked continuously.

 

It was the worst case scenario and yes there is a possibility that game mechanic will tests in following order: block first then parry then dodge and in this case you'll have it as:

30% for block

21% for parry (100%-30%)*30%

and dodge is irrelevant as doesn't trigger the effect

And you total at 51%

51% vs 35.7% => better

51% vs 90% => still far away from unrealistic number.

 

2 * 51% = 1.02

 

1.8 fps vs 1.02 fps vs 0.714 fps

Choose your level of realism.

 

I hope this will help in further theorycrafting attempts.

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How should I put it?

 

Your logic it not entirely correct as you don't take into account probability theory and doing wrong classification.

First of all you can block OR evade OR parry. Most likely game mechanic would rank it as

Evade if failed Parry if failed Block simply because every character can evade and some can parry and very few can block. And in this case evade/dodge doesn't do anything for you. Force regeneration is triggered only when you block or parry.

 

So your simply unrealistic number of 77% will become X% to block Y% to parry and Z% to dodge.

 

Just to make it easier let's say you have 30% chance to dodge, 30% chance to block and 30% chance to parry. It doesn't mean that you have 90% chance to avoid damage through block/parry/evade. Following your logic you'll get 1.8 force per second when hit continuously.

 

First test is if you evaded or not and since in out case we don't benefit from evading we have only 70% chance to get to 2 options that matter to us or in other words we have 70% chance to fail dodging the attack.

Then we have 30% chance to parry but real chance to get to parry is chance to fail dodge multiplied by chance to parry so it's 0.70 * 0.30 and it's only 0.21 or 21%

Then we get to block and to get there we need to fail to evade and parry and only then we have 30% to block. So in numerical form it's 0.70 * 0.70 * 0.30 = 0.147 or 14.7%

and now we just sum them and get to 14.7 + 21 = 35.7% to trigger the effect you want.

 

90% in your dream and 35.7% in reality. Now get this realistic chance and apply it to the bonus: 2% of Max Force = 2; 2 * 35.7% = 0.714 force per second in average if attacked continuously.

 

It was the worst case scenario and yes there is a possibility that game mechanic will tests in following order: block first then parry then dodge and in this case you'll have it as:

30% for block

21% for parry (100%-30%)*30%

and dodge is irrelevant as doesn't trigger the effect

And you total at 51%

51% vs 35.7% => better

51% vs 90% => still far away from unrealistic number.

 

2 * 51% = 1.02

 

1.8 fps vs 1.02 fps vs 0.714 fps

Choose your level of realism.

 

I hope this will help in further theorycrafting attempts.

 

I didn't do extensive testing in the beta, however if it follows the normal MMO style of calculating avoidance it will be on a "roll" type system.

 

Given the following, 40% parry(melee)/deflect(ranged), 50% block, (there is no dodge) it will work on a system similar to this

hidden roll 1-100, 1-40 = parry/deflect, 41-90 = blocked, 91-100 = normal hit.

 

The first poster's math is most likely correct.

 

And if it does work as the way you posted this entire thread has no point because trooper tanks will be the only viable tanks.

Edited by MercArcher
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(Heavy) Telekinetic Throw (every 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows; assuming 21 second TK Throw cycle):

1 every 21 seconds; 30 Force; 14.3% activation time; 30 Force; -1.43 Force/sec

(Easy) Telekinetic Throw (every 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows; assuming 30 second TK Throw cycle):

1 every 30 seconds; 30 Force; 10% activation time; 30 Force; -1.00 Force/sec

 

With telekinetic throw I believe that you are forgetting to account for the channel time. Casting telekinetic throw is a net increase in force during its channel time.

 

3 sec channel 30 cost with 10.3 force/sec min and 12.3 force/sec max (you CAN deflect/parry/block while channeling) you're looking at gaining between .9 and 6.9 force over the duration of telekinetic throw.

Edited by MercArcher
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The first poster's math is most likely correct.

 

Extensive testing in beta found that there are 2 rolls made as part of an attack attempt: the first which determines whether the attack hits, and the second which determines what kind of hit is is. You are operating under the assumption that TOR uses the same mechanics as WOW (which used a single roll, instead of 2), which it does not.

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I didn't do extensive testing in the beta, however if it follows the normal MMO style of calculating avoidance it will be on a "roll" type system.

 

Given the following, 40% parry(melee)/deflect(ranged), 50% block, (there is no dodge) it will work on a system similar to this

hidden roll 1-100, 1-40 = parry/deflect, 41-90 = blocked, 91-100 = normal hit.

 

The first poster's math is most likely correct.

 

Your logic is unlikely as hidden roll has nothing to do with the probability to block or deflect or parry.

Block is a block and is not affected by your ability to parry and your parry is not affected by your ability to block. Since they are independent tests of an incoming attack, they can not be simply added as they are.

 

Following your logic as soon as you can get your block to 50% and your deflect/parry to 50% you are immortal. You currently can get your block to 35% just from wearing shield generator, being in CT and having Kinetic Ward up and skill deflection gives you +50% to deflection and parry. If you add those up you are already at 85% and you just need 15% to either one from other sources like base chance or other buffs/gear bonuses and I doubt that your base deflection is significantly less than your block. I doubt that any game developer would buff a class to an extent where less than 15% of the attacks would have a chance to deal some kind of damage that will be partially mitigated by armor, etc.

 

Maybe you can provide a me a link where you're getting this information? I'll be very interested in reading about the mechanic you describe.

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Couple questions:

 

Why are you using PvP skills/talents to tank in PvE? Force speed, resilience, force cloak, and force of will are all PvP skills. Your healer should be able to either prevent, or remove just about any negative affect on you, there is no reason to waste the resources, and GCD on a skill/talent that someone else can provide in a PvE setting.

 

Along those same lines are the talents Mind over Matter and Elusiveness which enhance force speed and resilience to make them more useful (but still pretty much limiting them to PvP situations) Now, while i can see the merit of Resilience in some PvE settings (100% immunity to force and tech powers for 3 - 5 seconds sounds nice) the application of that would have to be rely on very extreme timing, especially with its 45 second cooldown, and only 3 (or 5) second up time. Doesn't seem all together too useful in the grand scheme of PvE tanking.

 

I'd drop the points in Elusiveness for Applied Force, which will increase the damage to your filler powers (Double Strike and Whirling Blow) and make it easier to build threat (more damage = more threat) I'd take the point out of Mind over Matter and put it into Expertise, due to mainly being a damage builder. With a 65% chance to proc your Combat Technique, that's a lot of extra damage you can build up pretty quickly, even with just a 3% damage increase. Now, depending on how Resilience works for PvE (I'm honestly not thinking very much) it might be worth it to keep Mind over Matter, but I'm not seeing it.

 

You haven't touched on Deflection and how it interacts with Double-bladed saber defense, but having an increase of 50% defense for both ranged and melee should allow you to refill your focus very quickly (due to Double-bladed saber defense giving force back for each attack you shield, parry, or deflect (and I think defense increase the parry and deflect portion of that) thus allowing you to basically refill your force by quite a large margin by rotating Kinetic Ward and Deflection.

 

On your rotation, I feel it would be best to actually have force breach and slow time up ASAP, then focus on kinetic ward being active, and using TT (at 3 stacks) then project then double strike. Then using Saber Strike (with your added 3% damage on your technique proc) to refill your force, and keep threat up when you have a spare GCD.

 

There's not a whole lot difference between my rotation and yours, except you'll benefit from the slow time debuff more often, which in turn decreases your incoming damage.

 

I'd personally use Force Potency right before your third Project proc, this will allow your Project to benefit from the 50% crit damage increase, and if I'm reading Force Potency correctly, it'll also increase TTs crit chance by 60% (in addition to increasing its range) which makes for a very hard hitting TT.

 

My question on TT, when used with 3 stacks, is does the 9% heal work off every tick of TT (i'm assuming 3 ticks, or a 27% heal) or is it a flat 9% heal?

 

I don't see Rapid Recovery as being a filler power, due to it actually giving a 15% increase at max talents, instead of 4% (huge difference between 54% proc chance, and 65% proc chance)

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Extensive testing in beta found that there are 2 rolls made as part of an attack attempt: the first which determines whether the attack hits, and the second which determines what kind of hit is is. You are operating under the assumption that TOR uses the same mechanics as WOW (which used a single roll, instead of 2), which it does not.

 

Thanks for the clarification. So is it basically

 

1-40 = parry, 41-90 = block, 91-100 = hit

then

1-90 = hit, 91=100 = crit?

 

or am I thinking through this wrong?

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With telekinetic throw I believe that you are forgetting to account for the channel time. Casting telekinetic throw is a net increase in force during its channel time.

 

I didn't forget this, since those values are only indicating the cost associated with using the ability. Telekinetic Throw could take 5 minutes to channel, and it would still cost 30 Force. The Force regained while using the ability is factored in at the end, when the "passive" Force regen is subtracted from the gross consumption to determine what the net loss is. You'll see everything makes perfect sense when reading the entries for the 4 overall use paradigms.

 

When discussing resource consumption, it is important to remember that you regain Force regen while using them. Saber Strike thanks to not having a cost, functionally grants you 17.1 Force when using it. Telekinetic Throw grants you 34.2 (generating a net gain for using it, assuming it is augmented by Harnessed Shadows so that it can't be interrupted or pushed back). Kinetic Ward, however, because it doesn't have an activation time, does not have this attribute and amounts to a permanent drain of 10 Force for every cycle of use without any space taken up to allow it to regenerate.

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or am I thinking through this wrong?

 

Assuming a 50% block chance, 35% dodge chance, and 10% crit chance, the two rolls would look like this:

 

1st roll: 100% chance of occurring

Dodge/Miss: 35% chance (100 * .35)

Successful Hit: 65% chance (100 - Dodge)

 

2nd roll: 65% chance of occurring (requires a successful hit)

Crit: 6.5% chance of occurring (65 * .1)

Block: 32.5% chance of occurring (65 * .5)

Normal: 26% chance of occurring (65 - (Crit + Block))

 

In addition, I believe it was found that, if there is an overflow from the sum of the block and hit chance (e.g. there is a 75% chance to block and a 35% chance to crit), block takes precedence, causing, in the parenthetical case, a 75% chance for a successful hit to become a block and only a 25% chance for it to become a critical hit. I believe it was determined by discovering that, even with a guaranteed critical hit, it was possible for an attack to be blocked.

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Couple questions:

 

Why are you using PvP skills/talents to tank in PvE? Force speed, resilience, force cloak, and force of will are all PvP skills. Your healer should be able to either prevent, or remove just about any negative affect on you, there is no reason to waste the resources, and GCD on a skill/talent that someone else can provide in a PvE setting.

 

Along those same lines are the talents Mind over Matter and Elusiveness which enhance force speed and resilience to make them more useful (but still pretty much limiting them to PvP situations) Now, while i can see the merit of Resilience in some PvE settings (100% immunity to force and tech powers for 3 - 5 seconds sounds nice) the application of that would have to be rely on very extreme timing, especially with its 45 second cooldown, and only 3 (or 5) second up time. Doesn't seem all together too useful in the grand scheme of PvE tanking.

 

I'd drop the points in Elusiveness for Applied Force, which will increase the damage to your filler powers (Double Strike and Whirling Blow) and make it easier to build threat (more damage = more threat) I'd take the point out of Mind over Matter and put it into Expertise, due to mainly being a damage builder. With a 65% chance to proc your Combat Technique, that's a lot of extra damage you can build up pretty quickly, even with just a 3% damage increase. Now, depending on how Resilience works for PvE (I'm honestly not thinking very much) it might be worth it to keep Mind over Matter, but I'm not seeing it.

 

You haven't touched on Deflection and how it interacts with Double-bladed saber defense, but having an increase of 50% defense for both ranged and melee should allow you to refill your focus very quickly (due to Double-bladed saber defense giving force back for each attack you shield, parry, or deflect (and I think defense increase the parry and deflect portion of that) thus allowing you to basically refill your force by quite a large margin by rotating Kinetic Ward and Deflection.

 

On your rotation, I feel it would be best to actually have force breach and slow time up ASAP, then focus on kinetic ward being active, and using TT (at 3 stacks) then project then double strike. Then using Saber Strike (with your added 3% damage on your technique proc) to refill your force, and keep threat up when you have a spare GCD.

 

There's not a whole lot difference between my rotation and yours, except you'll benefit from the slow time debuff more often, which in turn decreases your incoming damage.

 

I'd personally use Force Potency right before your third Project proc, this will allow your Project to benefit from the 50% crit damage increase, and if I'm reading Force Potency correctly, it'll also increase TTs crit chance by 60% (in addition to increasing its range) which makes for a very hard hitting TT.

 

My question on TT, when used with 3 stacks, is does the 9% heal work off every tick of TT (i'm assuming 3 ticks, or a 27% heal) or is it a flat 9% heal?

 

I don't see Rapid Recovery as being a filler power, due to it actually giving a 15% increase at max talents, instead of 4% (huge difference between 54% proc chance, and 65% proc chance)

 

Force speed is for any kind of movement you need to do.

Resilience is a major cooldown we have, it is also off the GCD and costs no force. Not to mention 100% force/tech resistance for 5 seconds is HUGE on some fights and can prevent a massive amount of damage.

Force cloak is for if you ever need to drop agro, example a tank swap that NEEDS to be done. (wow example here, festergut its a wipe if you get 10 stacks, if you're about to get your 10th stack, a complete agro drop is better than wiping)

Force of Will is also off the GCD and free of cost, if you ever have a removable incapacitate on you pop it.

 

Deflections interaction with double bladed saber defense will be minimal, once you are geared enough for tanking at end game you will be close to capping DBSD already, it will provide some minimal force regen, but is much better saved as a defensive cooldown. And yes, 10 defense = 1% deflect and parry with NO diminishing returns.

 

Kinetic ward is off the GCD and can be popped at any time, that's why it is #1 on the list.

 

Also, project doesn't have a 100% chance of applying the buff, so timing it for the 3rd proc will be almost impossible.

 

The heal on TT is 3% per tick for a total of 12%, thats a typo on my guide. It was an older version as the forums were wiped before I could save the newest version. Thanks for the catch.

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Assuming a 50% block chance, 35% dodge chance, and 10% crit chance, the two rolls would look like this:

 

1st roll: 100% chance of occurring

Dodge/Miss: 35% chance (100 * .35)

Successful Hit: 65% chance (100 - Dodge)

 

2nd roll: 65% chance of occurring (requires a successful hit)

Crit: 6.5% chance of occurring (65 * .1)

Block: 32.5% chance of occurring (65 * .5)

Normal: 26% chance of occurring (65 - (Crit + Block))

 

In addition, I believe it was found that, if there is an overflow from the sum of the block and hit chance (e.g. there is a 75% chance to block and a 35% chance to crit), block takes precedence, causing, in the parenthetical case, a 75% chance for a successful hit to become a block and only a 25% chance for it to become a critical hit. I believe it was determined by discovering that, even with a guaranteed critical hit, it was possible for an attack to be blocked.

 

Thanks for the explanation. This is going to make it a pain to get crit immune if bosses can crit.

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Assuming a 50% block chance, 35% dodge chance, and 10% crit chance, the two rolls would look like this:

 

1st roll: 100% chance of occurring

Dodge/Miss: 35% chance (100 * .35)

Successful Hit: 65% chance (100 - Dodge)

 

2nd roll: 65% chance of occurring (requires a successful hit)

Crit: 6.5% chance of occurring (65 * .1)

Block: 32.5% chance of occurring (65 * .5)

Normal: 26% chance of occurring (65 - (Crit + Block))

 

In addition, I believe it was found that, if there is an overflow from the sum of the block and hit chance (e.g. there is a 75% chance to block and a 35% chance to crit), block takes precedence, causing, in the parenthetical case, a 75% chance for a successful hit to become a block and only a 25% chance for it to become a critical hit. I believe it was determined by discovering that, even with a guaranteed critical hit, it was possible for an attack to be blocked.

 

Your algorithm is not clear.

 

Let's present it this way and assume that highest defensive chance will play first and so on.

 

Step 1:

roll to check if you hit. If hit - move to step 2, else go to step 1

Step 2:

roll for first defense (block as it's the highest). If target failed to block move to step 3, else move to step 1

Step 3:

roll for second defense (deflection/parry). If target failed to deflect/parry move to step 4, else move to step 1

Step 4:

roll to check if you crit. If crit - use crif formula for damage and move to step 5, else move to step 5.

Step 5:

Adjust damage for mitigation and deduct HP from target.

 

 

Presented algorithm explains why autocrit can be blocked/parried/deflected and it utilizes all defensive stats of the target and all offensive stats of the attacker.

Edited by WiseStranger
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I'm not sure what talents your seeing, but here's the one I'm seeing:

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/caHlE6e

 

Giving a 50/100% chance for the TT stack, allowing you to time the 3rd project exactly, on the third Particle Acceleration proc. Basically I'm seeing you use Force Potency every 9th Project (so you use it every time you will have TT stacked 3 times.

 

It looks like it is 3% per tick, somehow i saw 9% per tick. 12% total still seems nice for something you know you can build up.

 

Force speed is for any kind of movement you need to do.

2 second duration with a 30 second cooldown (even with the talents, its still a 20 second cooldown) doesn't seem like it'll have much use outside of PvP. 2 second run speed, even with removing movement effects (which do we know for a fact end game bosses/raids/flashpoints will have movement impairing affects?) it doesn't seem like its useful during PvE.

Resilience is a major cooldown we have, it is also off the GCD and costs no force. Not to mention 100% force/tech resistance for 5 seconds is HUGE on some fights and can prevent a massive amount of damage.

While it could in theory be used to prevent large spikes in damage, its lack of uptime makes it very limited it its applications. Even with a 5 second duration, its only up every 45 seconds with the talents 60 seconds without, meaning its up 1/9 to 1/12 of the time. Kinda a hard thing to argue for in a PvE fight.

Force cloak is for if you ever need to drop agro, example a tank swap that NEEDS to be done. (wow example here, festergut its a wipe if you get 10 stacks, if you're about to get your 10th stack, a complete agro drop is better than wiping)

Your again assuming fight mechanics without knowing for sure if we will have them. While being shed aggro will be nice, if Force cloak puts you at 0 threat, then you'll have a very hard time building it back up, especially with your DPS and healers having threat slightly lower then yours. Also, a tanking Shadow doesn't have the benefits that the Infiltration shadow will have, making it another cooldown with limited use except for taking up space on your trays. Force cloak also makes you completely immune to any form of healing for the duration of it, making it a cooldown that will basically get you killed and possibly wipe your team in the process.

Force of Will is also off the GCD and free of cost, if you ever have a removable incapacitate on you pop it.

Force of Will also removes movement impairing effects which makes talenting Force speed kinda pointless, and is on a 2 minute cooldown. Not exactly the best power to use in the event your incapacitated, as chances are it'll happen again within the 2 minute cooldown. Much better to rely on your healers to keep you from getting knocked around.

 

Deflections interaction with double bladed saber defense will be minimal, once you are geared enough for tanking at end game you will be close to capping DBSD already, it will provide some minimal force regen, but is much better saved as a defensive cooldown. And yes, 10 defense = 1% deflect and parry with NO diminishing returns.

 

So that means at 1000 defense = 100% deflect and parry. Now, knowing bioware, they will add some DR to that, as it doesn't seem very hard to stack that much defense (just off the gear that is currently being shown in torhead.com

 

I will agree that Deflection is best used as a defensive cooldown, and Kinetic ward used as an all the time defensive power (kinda like bone shield) but they do different things. Kinetic ward increases your shield chance, and deflection increase your parry/deflect chance, which makes stacking them very useful for tough fights. You also have Battle Readiness as a defensive cooldown, which will not just give a nice burst heal of 10%, but allow your technique to heal you even more for its duration.

 

I feel the 'cycle' of defensive cooldowns should go Kinetic ward -> Battle Readiness -> Deflection that way you always have kinetic ward active, and when you start taking massive damage, battle readiness can be used to heal you up, and top you off (by improving your self HoT) and deflection can be used while battle readiness is still on cooldown.

 

The other cooldowns you have available, while might be useful in very specific fights, don't seem like they will have a serious impact one way or another on how things work out. Resilience might be useful to help soak very large hits, assuming you know they are about to hit you, but I'm not sure 3 - 5 seconds of tech/force immunity will make up for the long cooldown timer of 45 - 60 seconds.

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Why are you using PvP skills/talents to tank in PvE? Force speed, resilience, force cloak, and force of will are all PvP skills. Your healer should be able to either prevent, or remove just about any negative affect on you, there is no reason to waste the resources, and GCD on a skill/talent that someone else can provide in a PvE setting.

 

You will be surprised how common snares, stuns, and other normally PvP mechanisms are present in TOR's PvE play. Allowing Force Speed to drop snares and immobilization mechanisms allows you to have an additional CD for those times when enemies insist on trying to keep you standing still (as well as being the Shadow equivalent of Force Leap, allowing melee Shadows to close effectively with ranged enemies when not in stealth).

 

I'd drop the points in Elusiveness for Applied Force, which will increase the damage to your filler powers (Double Strike and Whirling Blow) and make it easier to build threat (more damage = more threat) I'd take the point out of Mind over Matter and put it into Expertise, due to mainly being a damage builder. With a 65% chance to proc your Combat Technique, that's a lot of extra damage you can build up pretty quickly, even with just a 3% damage increase. Now, depending on how Resilience works for PvE (I'm honestly not thinking very much) it might be worth it to keep Mind over Matter, but I'm not seeing it.

 

I don't think you realize exactly how limited Combat Technique is from a damage/threat perspective. It can only proc once per GCD and deals less damage than Saber Strike. Spending points to augment that damage by such a paltry amount is a gross misappropriation.

 

Similarly, Double Strike and Whirling Blow are only filler; they are not the substantial threat tools I believe you think they are. In reality, Double Strike should only be used to generate Particle Acceleration so that you can use Project to guarantee Harnessed Shadows stacks. It's too expensive to spam effectively while still being able to maintain your requisite debuffs. Whirling Blow has some effectiveness for AoE damage and threat, but, once again, it's base damage is paltry. Increasing a paltry sum by such a small amount isn't a really viable expenditure.

 

Personally, my build is going to have 2 points in Applied Force, but I'm not taking them out of Elusiveness or Mind Over Matter. I'm pulling them out Mental Fortitude because more hp does next to nothing for survivability other than prevent you from being killed in a single attack and, at 3% more Endurance, Mental Fortitude is virtually worthless *especially when it costs 3 talent points*.

 

You haven't touched on Deflection and how it interacts with Double-bladed saber defense, but having an increase of 50% defense for both ranged and melee should allow you to refill your focus very quickly (due to Double-bladed saber defense giving force back for each attack you shield, parry, or deflect (and I think defense increase the parry and deflect portion of that) thus allowing you to basically refill your force by quite a large margin by rotating Kinetic Ward and Deflection.

 

DBSD has an ICD of 1 second, meaning that, at its best, it will allow you to recover 12 Force over its entire 12 second duration. When default Force regen is 8 Force/sec, 12 Force over 12 seconds once every 2 minutes means virtually nothing.

 

On another note, there is no reason you would ever want to "rotate" Kinetic Ward and Deflection. For the first part, Kinetic Ward is designed to have you keep it up at all times: it doesn't trigger the GCD, costs a pittance, and lasts 12 seconds for you to block 8 attacks. If you aren't maintaining Kinetic Ward at all times, you're doing it wrong. Deflection is completely different. It only lasts 12 seconds and requires 120 seconds to come back. Deflection is intended to be a short term augment to your standard survivability that should already be utilitizing Kinetic Ward. At best, Deflection is going to prevent a few of your Kinetic Ward charges from being taken off as you dodge attacks that you otherwise would have blocked.

 

I'd personally use Force Potency right before your third Project proc, this will allow your Project to benefit from the 50% crit damage increase, and if I'm reading Force Potency correctly, it'll also increase TTs crit chance by 60% (in addition to increasing its range) which makes for a very hard hitting TT.

 

It's actually better for you to reserve FP exclusively for Projects instead of saving a charge for TK Throw.

 

Math:

Project's default damage is 3991. Shadows get a 25% increase in the damage of Project (Shadow's Training) and Kinetics get a further 15% from Bombardment, with a further 15% threat on top of it. Upheaval grants a 45% chance to deal 50% of the damage of the triggering Project, and any Project used by an intelligent Kinetic Shadow is going to be a critical hit because it will soon or immediately follow a Double Strike. Before Force Potency is factored in, a Kinetic Project is going to deal ~7027 damage.

TK Throw's default damage is 4089. Harnessed Shadows increases its damage by 75%. Before Force Potency, a Kinetic TK Throw is going to deal ~7155 damage.

 

(Since Kinetic is a tank spec, we're going to assume a default 10% crit chance and the standard 50% bonus damage from a critical hit (re: you've got no surge rating))

 

Project is already going to be a critical hit thanks to Particle Acceleration. With Force Potency, this means that critical damage buff would go from being 50% to 100%. Without Force Potency, this crit would deal ~10541 damage. With Force Potency, this crit would instead deal ~14055 damage, an increase of roughly 3514 damage.

 

TK Throw is not guaranteed to be a critical hit and Force Potency does nothing for the self-healing, so, unless it gains more damage than Project, there is no reason to use an FP charge for TK Throw rather than Project. Factoring in default critical chance, TK Throw without FP is going to deal ~7513 damage (7155 + 7155 * .1 * .5). FP is going to increase the crit chance to 60%, giving an FP TK Throw ~9301 damage (7155 + 7155 * .6 * .5), an increase of only ~1788.

 

In short, FP should only ever be used for Project. Project, by default, does 40% more damage and generates 60% more threat, but, when augmented by FP, the difference increases to 50% more damage and roughly 75% more threat.

 

My question on TT, when used with 3 stacks, is does the 9% heal work off every tick of TT (i'm assuming 3 ticks, or a 27% heal) or is it a flat 9% heal?

 

TK Throw is 4 ticks of damage, each of which heals for 3% of your max health. 4 ticks of 3% health equal 12% of max health.

 

I don't see Rapid Recovery as being a filler power, due to it actually giving a 15% increase at max talents, instead of 4% (huge difference between 54% proc chance, and 65% proc chance)

 

Rapid Recovery is something of a filler power. By default, the heal and damage provided by Combat Technique are rather negligible, only really increasing to impressive amounts when buffed by Battle Readiness, and, considering that most of your abilities make multiple proc attempts per GCD, the 15% increase in proc chance doesn't really translate up as much as you would think. Saber Strike hits 3 times, meaning Combat Technique, by default, has an 87.5% chance to proc when you use it. With Rapid Recovery, this only increases to 95.7% chance, a 9% improvement in proc chance for that ability. It's not a stellar improvement in performance like many of the fundamental talents of the spec (re: Bombardment, Particle Acceleration, Kinetic Ward, One with the Force) so it could be interpreted as a filler talent to some. Personally, I wouldn't think of skipping it for any of the other options, though, a lot of that has to do with the other talent options at those points just being terrible.

Edited by Kitru
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Your algorithm is not clear.

 

It's clear enough. You make 1 roll determined by dodge and chance to hit to determine whether the attack hits. You then make a second roll determined by crit and block chance to determine whether the attack was a hit, a crit, or a block. It's not really my fault if you can't interpret it when it's pretty obvious Merc understood it with no problem.

 

If you want a clear algorithm, try this on for size.

 

int roll1 = rand (1,100);
if (roll1 < baseChance - dodgeChance)
return dodge;
else
{
      int roll2 = rand(0,100);
      if (roll2 < blockChance)
              return block;
      else if (roll2 > (100 - critChance))
              return crit;
      return hit;
}

 

Presented algorithm explains why autocrit can be blocked/parried/deflected and it utilizes all defensive stats of the target and all offensive stats of the attacker.

 

First off, the algorithm was determined because it was found that block chance was always lower than dodge chance by a percent equal to dodge chance, and it was discovered through collecting the relevant data in beta (re: they went into combat and recorded the results).

 

Secondly, the presumption that overwhelming degrees of block overlap overwhelming degrees of crit is secondary to the algorithm and was stated to be a presumption based on given data.

 

(corrected a couple typos in the code)

Edited by Kitru
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