Really bummed out about having my smuggler be a cathar now, seeing as one of the comps is a mandalorian- and the mandos committed genocide against the cathar just 20 years prior to the treaty of coruscant. Any way to rationalize this in my head? Why would my toon tolerate her at all? It's not like she's different from other Mandalorians in terms of her perspective... Edited September 20, 2015 by erinvegan

I don't remember the Mando's massacring the Cathar 20 years before ToC. 320 years, I do, but not 20.

I think the timeline works as sufficient justification for your Cathar not holding grudges. It's been 320 years, so its practically ancient history. It would be the equivalent of being angry at someone in the real world for something their ancestors did in the year 1695.

Was Akaavi born a Mandalorian? If so, were her parents? It's very possible that no one in her family line was even on Cathar at any point in the past or a part of the Mandalorians when it happened.

 

That said, people in Star Wars can hold a grudge for a very long time. Look at the Sith. "Of, sure, as a result of our banishment by the Jedi, we were able to form this great empire, breed with hardy genetic stock, and study the Dark Side without limitations. In addition, our lives are now pretty comfortable. But, we were sent away, and now the Republic and the Jedi must pay the price."

I think the timeline works as sufficient justification for your Cathar not holding grudges. It's been 320 years, so its practically ancient history. It would be the equivalent of being angry at someone in the real world for something their ancestors did in the year 1695.

 

Reminds me of the ST:TNG episode "Journey's End." People can hold onto history for a LONG time.

Was Akaavi born a Mandalorian? If so, were her parents? It's very possible that no one in her family line was even on Cathar at any point in the past or a part of the Mandalorians when it happened.

 

That said, people in Star Wars can hold a grudge for a very long time. Look at the Sith. "Of, sure, as a result of our banishment by the Jedi, we were able to form this great empire, breed with hardy genetic stock, and study the Dark Side without limitations. In addition, our lives are now pretty comfortable. But, we were sent away, and now the Republic and the Jedi must pay the price."

Actually, I interpreted the Sith determination to gain vengeance on the Jedi and Republic was for the Sith cultural devastation and attempted genocide at the close of the Great Hyperspace War. Rather than letting the Empire become gracefully defeated, the Chancellor demanded that Korriban be razed.

 

1,300 years of hype later, the Empire was determined to do the same to Coruscant.

Well if it's too wierd you can always change your species at the appearance designer

Bear in mind that you can make a cathar bounty hunter and become a Mandalorian. No one minds Mandalore's personal champion being a cathar.

 

The cathar-specific conversation for Imperial PCs even touches on that if you're a bounty hunter, noting that one of their own being Mandalore's right hand has been an inspiration to the cathar people.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Cythereal

I think the timeline works as sufficient justification for your Cathar not holding grudges. It's been 320 years, so its practically ancient history. It would be the equivalent of being angry at someone in the real world for something their ancestors did in the year 1695.

Our own world is full of examples of that. The English and the French were at war, on and off, for around 800 years, and some might point to the situation in a certain part of the island called Ireland, which is alleged to have its roots in events in the time of William IV, somewhere near that 1695 date you mentioned.

 

And don't get me started about the Middle East, where the relevant period is measured in *thousands* of years, not mere hundreds.

I guess one way to look at it is, how do the Mandalorians of the current era feel about that genocide? Do they think that their predecessors went too far, or are they just fine with it? In retrospect, does it stand up to the Mandalorian code of honour?

I think its up to the individual Mandalorians. Judging by what happens on <Imperial side> Taris, the mandalorians there ARE fighting with the Cathar settlers, but as a bounty hunter you are told to fight them <or if light side, you can take out their weapons as a BH> as part of the planet quest line - but it is the Sith that give that order, not the Mandos.

 

And no mention is made by the Mandos of previous interactions between them and the Cathar.

 

But, as a previous poster mentioned, there are plenty of earthly societies where enmity, grudges, vendettas - carry on for hundreds - or thousands - of years between various groups. No reason to think there wouldn't be those on both sides <cathar & mando> that want to carry on that fight in the SWTOR universe.

Our own world is full of examples of that. The English and the French were at war, on and off, for around 800 years, and some might point to the situation in a certain part of the island called Ireland, which is alleged to have its roots in events in the time of William IV, somewhere near that 1695 date you mentioned.

 

And don't get me started about the Middle East, where the relevant period is measured in *thousands* of years, not mere hundreds.

 

I'm not saying that it is unrealistic for some people to hold long grudges, just that its completely illogical to hold grudges about events that occurred long before anyone currently living was born. The people responsible would be long since dead, in some cases (such as the genocide of the Cathar) for centuries. Of course, people are unfortunately often illogical.

 

I suppose the point I tried and failed to make, was that it is entirely possible to play a Cathar smuggler who doesn't hold a grudge over an event that occurred 320 years before. You'd just need to rollplay the character as a practical or pragmatic sort, rather than an overly emotional and irrational hothead. Akaavi had no role in those events and was born centuries after they people who participated have died, so a character would have to be illogical to hold her responsible in some degree.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Aeneas_Falco

I'm not saying that it is unrealistic for some people to hold long grudges, just that its completely illogical to hold grudges about events that occurred long before anyone currently living was born. The people responsible would be long since dead, in some cases (such as the genocide of the Cathar) for centuries. Of course, people are unfortunately often illogical.

 

I suppose the point I tried and failed to make, was that it is entirely possible to play a Cathar smuggler who doesn't hold a grudge over an event that occurred 320 years before. You'd just need to rollplay the character as a practical or pragmatic sort, rather than an overly emotional and irrational hothead. Akaavi had no role in those events and was born centuries after they people who participated have died, so a character would have to be illogical to hold her responsible in some degree.

Yes, I agree with your point, but what you said was that holding such a grudge would be like people in our world holding a grudge about events in the back end of the 17th Century, and my point was that we have no shortage of that...

I'm not saying that it is unrealistic for some people to hold long grudges, just that its completely illogical to hold grudges about events that occurred long before anyone currently living was born. The people responsible would be long since dead, in some cases (such as the genocide of the Cathar) for centuries. Of course, people are unfortunately often illogical.

 

I suppose the point I tried and failed to make, was that it is entirely possible to play a Cathar smuggler who doesn't hold a grudge over an event that occurred 320 years before. You'd just need to rollplay the character as a practical or pragmatic sort, rather than an overly emotional and irrational hothead. Akaavi had no role in those events and was born centuries after they people who participated have died, so a character would have to be illogical to hold her responsible in some degree.

 

Illogical perhaps, but people do it, in RL and especially in Star Wars. That said, your smuggler and Akaavi don't have too.

I'm still partial to a cathar bounty hunter. Mandalore himself doesn't hesitate to make a cathar part of his clan and his right hand, and you're told on Makeb that cathar throughout the galaxy respect your choice to do so and even look up to you for it.

the mandalorians of old arent the mandalorians of now.

 

Different standards of honor have been adopted since then and the mandalorians very much matured since then including in doctrine.

Oops, I made the post just when I was going to sleep, so probably read it wrong (the whole 320 years thing).

Hmm, I suppose my character would be one to forgive and forget, despite it being odd that the cathar are pleased that the cathar BH joined the mandalorians - I mean, it even mentions the grudge being held in the in-game codex about Cathar.

From the codex entry -

 

"It was the Cathar reputation for martial prowess that drew the Mandalorians to besiege their homeworld several centuries ago. Despite their valiant resistance against the remorseless invaders, the native Cathar were virtually exterminated. Out of millions, only a few hundred escaped the Mandalorians' attack and fled to Republic space.

 

In the time since their near-extinction, the Cathar have rebuilt their numbers to become common faces on Republic worlds. The Jedi Order, Galactic Senate and Republic military all claim numerous proud and loyal Cathar among their ranks. It is rare to encounter a Cathar who doesn't actively despise the Sith Empire--and especially its Mandalorian allies.

 

Weird how SW:TOR contradicts itself a lot.

Yes, people can and do hold grudges over things that happened long ago. But the Sith Empire and the Mandalorians are groups - it's possible for your smuggler to despise the groups and still have some grudging respect for an individual such as Akaavi. You know, something like she's proven herself to be not quite as despicable as the old hatred would suggest.

 

It could be very uncomfortable for your smuggler to admit it, but that's also good RP.

From the codex entry -

 

Weird how SW:TOR contradicts itself a lot.

I find the apparent shift in the Empire's attitudes towards aliens, and vice versa, a bit difficult to swallow. But I guess whenever you have invaders and oppressors, you will also have collaborators. How a free Cathar in the Republic might feel about meeting a Cathar who's sold his or her own people out for a rank in the Imperial Army is an... interesting RP challenge.

 

As for Akaavi, if Mandalorian honour is worth anything I think she'd condemn the genocide as very un-Mandalorian. If my smuggler found out she was actually proud of her people's part in an event like that, he'd throw her off his ship. Somewhere in the middle of the Dune Sea. And he's not even a Cathar.

I find the apparent shift in the Empire's attitudes towards aliens, and vice versa, a bit difficult to swallow. But I guess whenever you have invaders and oppressors, you will also have collaborators. How a free Cathar in the Republic might feel about meeting a Cathar who's sold his or her own people out for a rank in the Imperial Army is an... interesting RP challenge.

 

As for Akaavi, if Mandalorian honour is worth anything I think she'd condemn the genocide as very un-Mandalorian. If my smuggler found out she was actually proud of her people's part in an event like that, he'd throw her off his ship. Somewhere in the middle of the Dune Sea. And he's not even a Cathar.

 

The shift in the Empire's feelings, may have more to do with devs wanting to make the Empire more friendly to aliens so people roll them more (buy the unlocks) and not think of the Empire as the dumb side they are. As much as I enjoy the Inquisitor, the Empire still shows it's the the stupid bad guys who kill off their own men so the good guys can beat them even easier.

That's one way to look at it, though from a lore standpoint. The 'Alien Initiative' as the codex coins it, was Marr's answer to Malgus' revolution. Supplementing the diminishing imperial forces with those alien species that remained loyal throughout the civil war. A good move on his part, one I believe he's been waiting a long time to put into action, he merely needed the right window of opportunity. Aliens in the military still face the usual xenophobic prejudice of course, after all, rome was not built in a day, but this is a step in the right direction.

Codex entries talk about it a bit further, that the Empire has been forced to institute many of Malgus' reforms. Imperial Cathar PCs get a special conversation with Captain Hanthor on Makeb, where you discuss that many cathar see you and Hanthor as examples. I've always gotten the impression that the general social and cultural values of many races in the galaxy like the cathar, trandoshans, and kaleesh align far more with the Empire than the Republic if only the Empire would tone down the xenophobia.

 

Now that the Empire is doing precisely that, a great many aliens have entered Imperial service and excelled. Hell, even before that the Huntmaster of the Great Hunt is a Mandalorian wookiee.

Our own world is full of examples of that. The English and the French were at war, on and off, for around 800 years, and some might point to the situation in a certain part of the island called Ireland, which is alleged to have its roots in events in the time of William IV, somewhere near that 1695 date you mentioned.

 

And don't get me started about the Middle East, where the relevant period is measured in *thousands* of years, not mere hundreds.

 

Not to mention, the things going on in the U.S by a certain minority because of something at least a century in the past.

Not to mention, the things going on in the U.S by a certain minority because of something at least a century in the past.

All I can say is that this is sufficiently vague that it could be almost any minority group in the US.