I know that other people in game feel this way, but I am curious to know what the forums would say.

There are two common occurrences throughout any story you play in SWTOR that may seem small, but they happen so often it can easily become a detriment to immersion or enjoyment. One of those things being your character, throughout cutscenes, being tossed around like a rag doll at the whim of powers from NPCs. Certain stories or times calls for battles & struggles, undoubtedly, but I find my characters being overpowered so easily & so many times that it makes the player seem weak & helpless. How can I believe that my character is an important & strong individual, unique to the plot at hand, when they are so effortlessly thwarted?

Another thing that frequently comes about is during dialogue. Selecting an option within a conversation & the PC says something intimidating, clever, witty, or as a proposition - but it is instantly met & dismantled by a superior retort from an NPC that throws insult back into the face of the character. An example of this is extremely early on in gameplay, during the Black Talon FP run. You confront Satele Shan & you can intimidate her with a dialogue option, but without missing a beat she hurls it back & makes your PC look like a fool. That is not fun & that is not enticing gameplay.

Another thing I recall is during the Consular storyline. When facing your foes throughout the first chapter, no matter how many times you declare your victory or upper hand to a situation, the enemy's constantly respond with "I have already one," or "You have already failed." Over, & over, & over again. It can be infuriating to hear this nonsense regurgitated throughout the experience & to be made feeling like the character you're playing isn't as powerful or intelligent as the NPCs you interact with.

TL-DR, Does anyone else think it is annoying how often your character is so easily thrown around, or how often the conversations you have with NPCs leave your character feeling insulted or not as smart as the NPCs?

I really think that's something that ought to change. It even happens in KotFe. You are supposed to be this bamf by the final battle & you ~still get the crap beaten out of you.

An example of this is extremely early on in gameplay, during the Black Talon FP run. You confront Satele Shan & you can intimidate her with a dialogue option, but without missing a beat she hurls it back & makes your PC look like a fool. That is not fun & that is not enticing gameplay.

See it doesn't bother me so much because in the case you mentioned here (and in most others, in fact), you let your actions speak for you. Satele may get to retort, but you then get to go kill all the people she swore she'd stop you from killing.

A lightsaber to the face is worth 1000 retorts.

See it doesn't bother me so much because in the case you mentioned here (and in most others, in fact), you let your actions speak for you. Satele may get to retort, but you then get to go kill all the people she swore she'd stop you from killing.

 

A lightsaber to the face is worth 1000 retorts.

Mm, this is true. Although that said I wish I could see her reactions! Best left to the imagination I suppose.

Because, thankfully, our characters are not Mary Sues

Except the SW maybe. JK comes pretty close but the whole getting rolled over by the Emperor helps a bit with that.

All the force users are at some point, told how powerful they are. However, as we've seen through all the SW fiction, powerful does not mean, unbeatable.

Anakin was the chosen one, a powerful force user, not only did he lose a hand one time, he then lost even more because (of poor writing...I mean) Obi-Wan had the high ground, and he couldn't force jump high enough, no matter how many times he jumped higher before hand

What bothers me is when NPCs get to talk smack to you and you just have to sit there and take it without beating the snot out of them. Sometimes you get to kill them but it's usually long after the moment's passed. Two examples are that snotty Baras apprentice on DK who keeps insulting you and then you follow his orders like a good doggy instead of showing him who is superior first, and the bratty girl on Coruscant whose brother you have to rescue after she insults you over and over (cloudhead) and insinuates you're stupid. She's not even grateful afterwards, just gives you more lip. I wanted to slap her silly.

I don't want to kill every annoying character, I just want the opportunity to backhand them when they disrespect me (and aren't obviously more powerful than me).

Because, thankfully, our characters are not Mary Sues

 

Except the SW maybe. JK comes pretty close but the whole getting rolled over by the Emperor helps a bit with that.

I agree, most of the time I'm glad that the hero doesn't easily steamroll everything in his or her path. I'm not a fan of chosen one special snowflake type stories and prefer ones where the heroes are more regular people irregular circumstances having to adapt and learn and improve and struggle. I especially want the non-force users to not be these ultra powerful god-like beings.

The only parts I found myself going "*** why am I getting treated so weak and thrown around like a ragdoll?" were in KotFE like the part where Senya easily force flings your character like 300 feet away as if they were a doll. Why would a random grunt be able to so easily overpower a Darth or Jedi Master with no effort on her part and no response or defense from our character? She literally treats us as some nuisance that is unworthy of even talking to and just swats us away while giving Lana basic respect and talking to her. The other parts that stick out to me are the autodialogue during Jorgan's recruitment mission where you just fought a bunch of skytroopers and more come in and your character is like "any last words?" as if a few extra skytroopers are some kind of deadly threat. Those things are like tissue paper and we've killed hundreds at that point. Then right afterwards they need to be saved from said weak trash mobs by some civilians. Another is Arcann "beating" you and almost killing you in cutscenes despite wiping the floor with him in gameplay. If they wanted that to make sense and not be extremely frustrating they should have either 1)Made him impossibly powerful in combat and impossible to kill, maybe making him 1-hit kill us and go to a cutscene after a certain amount of time in combat or 2) Don't have us fight him until it's time to kill him (maybe have him overpower us in cutscenes but don't let us fight him prematurely).

For me the tiny things that happen a lot in every story situation that are annoying is when people say to your character to do something and you have the option to say "Send the fleet..." "Deploy your forces" etc etc...

and usually there is ALWAYS a convenient excuse as to why this cannot be done.

One annoying thing story wise is in the Corellia campaign, the rocket trams are absolutely ESSENTIAL!!! to the defence/assault on Corellia. Landing crafts, APCs, walkers, shuttles, none of it are good enough to move troops... no sonny jim... we need those trams!!

The only parts I found myself going "*** why am I getting treated so weak and thrown around like a ragdoll?" were in KotFE like the part where Senya easily force flings your character like 300 feet away as if they were a doll. Why would a random grunt be able to so easily overpower a Darth or Jedi Master with no effort on her part and no response or defense from our character? She literally treats us as some nuisance that is unworthy of even talking to and just swats us away while giving Lana basic respect and talking to her.

Senya is not "a random grunt", she's the consort of Valkorion, the former leader of his personal guard, and is in almost every way your character's equal.

She also manages to fling you so far and so easily because you're not looking.

As for treating you like an unworthy nuisance or whatnot... You're about to face her daughter, the person she swore to fight herself, a psychotic madwoman who'd do anything for a fun fight. She doesn't have the time to roll for a charisma check and convince you to go do your job and free the Gravestone while she deals with Vaylin. The rest of the time, she's extremely respectful of your character and only intervene when you get in her way (Like when she's interrogating Reg in the Old World) or when you do something idiotic in her opinion (Bringing Koth to meet the Exalted because she thinks she can force them to talk and opposing the Heralds is still her duty as a Knight.)

Senya is not "a random grunt", she's the consort of Valkorion, the former leader of his personal guard, and is in almost every way your character's equal.

She also manages to fling you so far and so easily because you're not looking.

As for treating you like an unworthy nuisance or whatnot... You're about to face her daughter, the person she swore to fight herself, a psychotic madwoman who'd do anything for a fun fight. She doesn't have the time to roll for a charisma check and convince you to go do your job and free the Gravestone while she deals with Vaylin. The rest of the time, she's extremely respectful of your character and only intervene when you get in her way (Like when she's interrogating Reg in the Old World) or when you do something idiotic in her opinion (Bringing Koth to meet the Exalted because she thinks she can force them to talk and opposing the Heralds is still her duty as a Knight.)

Her sleeping with the emperor doesn't have any effect on her strength and she is one of many random knights. She's not some kind of force prodigy or emperor-level figure (and yet she was able to effortlessly fling the hero much farther than anyone has flung anyone else in the game). She's never been portrayed as anything more than a generic soldier aka a grunt. She may be an officer but so is Jorgan and I don't see him suddenly pulling out some kind of amazing feats of heroism that trump anything anyone else has done nor does he undermine the hero and treat them like a pesky flea. Imagine if your character and Theron were talking to Jorgan when you meet him and he wants you to defeat the incoming ambush so instead of saying "let's defeat this ambush" or whatever he without even looking at you or batting an eye roundhouse kicks you and you fly 30 feet away towards the skytroopers and your Empire's Wrath, your Jedi Master, your elite bounty hunter, etc...fly helplessly face first into the mud" and he calmly says just to Theron "let's defeat this ambush." Senya even said herself that she was no match for her kids combined even as small children. I don't care if she's disrespectful or not, I care that her being able to treat the hero as if they are a significant fly in that moment completely undermines the hero's established level of strength and skill.

Also, she has time to talk to Lana and doesn't fling Lana away like a gnat. She could have easily said what she said to Lana but said it to the hero as well without flinging anyone like a doll. It would have made sense and not completely undermined the character (not to mention many of the DS characters wouldn't take kindly to being tossed aside and smashed into a wall unprovoked and might turn back and attack her).

Her sleeping with the emperor doesn't have any effect on her strength and she is one of many random knights. She's not some kind of force prodigy or emperor-level figure (and yet she was able to effortlessly fling the hero much farther than anyone has flung anyone else in the game). She's never been portrayed as anything more than a generic soldier aka a grunt.

You keep insisting that Senya is nothing special even when everything points to it being false.

She was the CAPTAIN OF VALKORION'S HONOR GUARD! The best among the best of Zakuul's Knights, said Knights who wrecked the Jedi AND the Sith in less than two years. If that's "a grunt" to you then your character isn't much more than that either. Also she's shown to be a very good fighter in "Betrayed" where she takes out six Nathema Zealots without suffering even a scratch. Nathema Zealots who are, let me remind you, handpicked by Valkorion himself to guard the location Vaylin is locked into.

She may not be all powerful but she's strong enough to blindside the Outlander. (That basically the principle of blindsinding, by the way, attacking someone from where they can't see you so they can't anticipate it. Meaning that a weaker fighter could still take down a stronger, more experienced one.)

As for not being able to call out Senya on this, I have no problem with it because it doesn't really matter anyway. There's more important thing going at the moment than your character's bruised ego (Like being wrecked by Arcann or needing to use your former nemesis' power to push him back.)

She's never been portrayed as anything more than a generic soldier aka a grunt.

I'm curious. Are you talking about a completely different Senya than the one everyone else knows?

I'm curious. Are you talking about a completely different Senya than the one everyone else knows?

That's what I want to know.....Senya has absolutely been established as a powerful Force user & an extraordinarily capable warrior. She did take town, what, six of the Nathema Zealots during the new cinematic as well? In addition to the prowess she's displayed throughout KotFE. She is rather the opposite of a grunt or a common soldier.

Agreed with those that say it's perfectly a-ok for your character to be dealt setbacks or get knocked around. I have no interest in playing a Mary Sue.

If it's any consolation, spoiler alert, your character always eventually wins. I don't know of many decent works of fiction where the protagonist is never in trouble.

For me the tiny things that happen a lot in every story situation that are annoying is when people say to your character to do something and you have the option to say "Send the fleet..." "Deploy your forces" etc etc...

 

and usually there is ALWAYS a convenient excuse as to why this cannot be done.

Lol yeah, I always chuckle at the, "It's impossible for us to deploy troops. We have to send in a crack team to infiltrate the enemy base. It just so happens that you are that. How amazingly convenient."

The only time I can recall being thrown around that really annoyed me was Thanaton. Just because the way Thanaton enters the story and the way you're thrown into interacting with him makes you feel like a participant, rather than an active player. And the dude ceaselessly acts like a dick to you and says all this crap about the traditions of the sith and then later...

Lol yeah, I always chuckle at the, "It's impossible for us to deploy troops. We have to send in a crack team to infiltrate the enemy base. It just so happens that you are that. How amazingly convenient."

 

 

The only time I can recall being thrown around that really annoyed me was Thanaton. Just because the way Thanaton enters the story and the way you're thrown into interacting with him makes you feel like a participant, rather than an active player. And the dude ceaselessly acts like a dick to you and says all this crap about the traditions of the sith and then later...

 

breaks his own Kaggath. He's such a cowardly hypocritical piece of ****. I could have at least admired his dedication to tradition if he'd taken his death in the face, instead of running. Instead, he has no redeeming qualities.

Ah, but that is one of the things that makes the SI ending so satisfying.

Not only do you get to beat him, you utterly crush him, leaving him a total ruin.

That's what I want to know.....Senya has absolutely been established as a powerful Force user & an extraordinarily capable warrior. She did take town, what, six of the Nathema Zealots during the new cinematic as well? In addition to the prowess she's displayed throughout KotFE. She is rather the opposite of a grunt or a common soldier.

She has not been established as any more powerful than any other random force user we've met. Vaylin was the one that was portrayed as powerful, Senya was portrayed as just a random imperial guard type on the level of every other sith or jedi. Skilled sure, but not unusually so. I'd expect any other knight of Zakuul we recruited in her place would be the same level of skill and power. The player has killed MANY jedi, sith, and monsters (not to mention dozens of other Zakuul knights) who were portrayed as much more powerful than that. Are you arguing that Senya was portrayed from the beginning as some kind of special snowflake who can swat dark council members and jedi masters aside with ease? Throw them 300 feet and slam them into a wall, render them helpless without a thought? Where? Until that moment she hadn't done anything more extraordinary than any other companion. That moment didn't make sense at all.

Ah, but that is one of the things that makes the SI ending so satisfying.

 

Not only do you get to beat him, you utterly crush him, leaving him a total ruin.

It is satisfying to crush him, I will give you that.

She has not been established as any more powerful than any other random force user we've met. Vaylin was the one that was portrayed as powerful, Senya was portrayed as just a random imperial guard type on the level of every other sith or jedi. Skilled sure, but not unusually so. I'd expect any other knight of Zakuul we recruited in her place would be the same level of skill and power. The player has killed MANY jedi, sith, and monsters (not to mention dozens of other Zakuul knights) who were portrayed as much more powerful than that. Are you arguing that Senya was portrayed from the beginning as some kind of special snowflake who can swat dark council members and jedi masters aside with ease? Throw them 300 feet and slam them into a wall, render them helpless without a thought? Where? Until that moment she hadn't done anything more extraordinary than any other companion. That moment didn't make sense at all.

This is not in the game, but the trailer. Senya killed 6 Nathema Zealots, who were hand chosen by Valkorian to serve as his personal elite assassins/guard( wookiepedia info); they were not typical force users. She owned them. That should say something about her abilities.

She has not been established as any more powerful than any other random force user we've met. Vaylin was the one that was portrayed as powerful, Senya was portrayed as just a random imperial guard type on the level of every other sith or jedi. Skilled sure, but not unusually so. I'd expect any other knight of Zakuul we recruited in her place would be the same level of skill and power. The player has killed MANY jedi, sith, and monsters (not to mention dozens of other Zakuul knights) who were portrayed as much more powerful than that. Are you arguing that Senya was portrayed from the beginning as some kind of special snowflake who can swat dark council members and jedi masters aside with ease? Throw them 300 feet and slam them into a wall, render them helpless without a thought? Where? Until that moment she hadn't done anything more extraordinary than any other companion. That moment didn't make sense at all.

just because she hadn't demonstrated her abilities before doesn't mean she doesn't have them. This is shortly after we even meet her after all.

We have more than enuogh information to say that Senya is exceptional. Maybe not a monster in the Force like her children, but still very, very strong.

While I agree about not being Mary Sue or in my JK case Gary Stew, there is one thing that bugged me. My JK is one of the best saber duelists around. It's been established as such. And the fight on Asylum, I get owned like I'm some rookie padawan who can barely hold a saber?

WHAT????? Umm, no. I should have been easily able to hold my own against Arcann. I mean it would of been one thing had it been a close drawn out fight and then Arcann gets the gut shot in, but it's basically, I'm one of the best saber fighters around and Arcann simply wins because "my saber wasn't the magical force saber granted to me by the old grand master and a sith force ghost".

That whole setup was just garbage.

I know that other people in game feel this way, but I am curious to know what the forums would say.

 

There are two common occurrences throughout any story you play in SWTOR that may seem small, but they happen so often it can easily become a detriment to immersion or enjoyment. One of those things being your character, throughout cutscenes, being tossed around like a rag doll at the whim of powers from NPCs. Certain stories or times calls for battles & struggles, undoubtedly, but I find my characters being overpowered so easily & so many times that it makes the player seem weak & helpless. How can I believe that my character is an important & strong individual, unique to the plot at hand, when they are so effortlessly thwarted?

 

Another thing that frequently comes about is during dialogue. Selecting an option within a conversation & the PC says something intimidating, clever, witty, or as a proposition - but it is instantly met & dismantled by a superior retort from an NPC that throws insult back into the face of the character. An example of this is extremely early on in gameplay, during the Black Talon FP run. You confront Satele Shan & you can intimidate her with a dialogue option, but without missing a beat she hurls it back & makes your PC look like a fool. That is not fun & that is not enticing gameplay.

 

Another thing I recall is during the Consular storyline. When facing your foes throughout the first chapter, no matter how many times you declare your victory or upper hand to a situation, the enemy's constantly respond with "I have already one," or "You have already failed." Over, & over, & over again. It can be infuriating to hear this nonsense regurgitated throughout the experience & to be made feeling like the character you're playing isn't as powerful or intelligent as the NPCs you interact with.

 

 

TL-DR, Does anyone else think it is annoying how often your character is so easily thrown around, or how often the conversations you have with NPCs leave your character feeling insulted or not as smart as the NPCs?

 

I really think that's something that ought to change. It even happens in KotFe. You are supposed to be this bamf by the final battle & you ~still get the crap beaten out of you.

Geting owned in the vanilla game is perfectly normal in the first three chapters. You are not the chosen one. You are not the emperor incarnate. You are new character undergoing a personal growth from zero.

So experienced and older characters are bound to outwitt outsmart you since theres no way you had the library of swag and best rhetorics on your disposal when you are just a padawan or an apperentice. In Hutt cartel and Shadow of Revan you are the big baddie and nothing unworthy of your status happens to you during the cutscenes. Well maybe aside from chasing that monkey lizard on Rishi.

When you talk with Satele Shan in the Black Talon FP she is your betterby that time as black talon is chronologicaly set into the prologue before dromund kaas. She is far better and smarter then you are in that flashpoint. So its fine for her to outsmart you. But like some other dude here pointed out. You pretty much give her a lightsaber in da face after you take down the Brental Star before she can even arrive.

You are absolutely right about Kotfe tho. Our character is frequently humiliated there. You walk up to Vaylin and bam you are sent flying atleast two kilometers away in an instant.

I also noticed that other characters have far better lines and interactions than our character.

Lana, Theron, Senya and even koth have some pretty awesome animations in the chapters meanwhile your character either walks, stands idly, pushes some buttons or gets thrown around.

I hope that Kotet changes that.

Geting owned in the vanilla game is perfectly normal in the first three chapters. You are not the chosen one. You are not the emperor incarnate. You are new character undergoing a personal growth from zero.

So experienced and older characters are bound to outwitt outsmart you since theres no way you had the library of swag and best rhetorics on your disposal when you are just a padawan or an apperentice. In Hutt cartel and Shadow of Revan you are the big baddie and nothing unworthy of your status happens to you during the cutscenes. Well maybe aside from chasing that monkey lizard on Rishi.

 

When you talk with Satele Shan in the Black Talon FP she is your betterby that time as black talon is chronologicaly set into the prologue before dromund kaas. She is far better and smarter then you are in that flashpoint. So its fine for her to outsmart you. But like some other dude here pointed out. You pretty much give her a lightsaber in da face after you take down the Brental Star before she can even arrive.

 

You are absolutely right about Kotfe tho. Our character is frequently humiliated there. You walk up to Vaylin and bam you are sent flying atleast two kilometers away in an instant.

 

I also noticed that other characters have far better lines and interactions than our character.

Lana, Theron, Senya and even koth have some pretty awesome animations in the chapters meanwhile your character either walks, stands idly, pushes some buttons or gets thrown around.

 

I hope that Kotet changes that.

This. Veterans were rookies at some point, that's what vanilla is all about. But in KotFE, we are established veterans, except that cutscenes show completely otherwise. What was my character doing when Arcann freed him from his chains in Chapter I? How come the Battlemaster of the Jedi gets owned every single time? How come we never block a single Force power, always get thrown around like trash, but never really counter either? I can't even do a basic Force Push? This "one size fits all" story doesn't fit anyone.